2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 4: Who is the MVP?)

[BigGargamel]

Something I noticed is that when people want to criticize Jokic's performance when the box score numbers are great they just say "bad defense" as to why his performance was "secretly" not so good. There are obviously games where Jokic has bad defense (the recent Kings game for instance), but these people just say "bad defense" no matter what actually happened in the game

People are literally posting YouTube clips of his bad defense in these games. It's not a "secret".

Didn’t know if you knew this but Defensive lowlights aren’t a good way to evaluate a players defense and yet I unironically see people cite them. Again there are games where Jokic has bad defense (recent Kings game for instance), but people scream “bad defense” basically no matter what actually happened. A lot of these people also straight up don’t believe in any defense analytics and prefer defensive lowlights to evaluate players

I thought dudes on this site were smarter than to use easily curated YouTube compilations (like the Angel Reese ones going around) as actual evidence in arguments, but here we are.

[Special_Puppy]

if you gave jokic sga's supporting cast against detroit on the road do you really think he'd win ?

Probably? I think SGA was somewhat better against Detroit than Jokic was against Washington, but not enough to flip the outcome

[OkcSinceSGA]

Something I noticed is that when people want to criticize Jokic's performance when the box score numbers are great they just say "bad defense" as to why his performance was "secretly" not so good. There are obviously games where Jokic has bad defense (the recent Kings game for instance), but these people just say "bad defense" no matter what actually happened in the game

To be fair, Jokics defense against the Wizards was horrible. But he looked like he checked out in that game and only casually played offense. Looked really tired too...

His EPM prior for the Wizards game was +7.1 overall which includes his defense

Wow he’s plummeting? He was an 8.7 or something not long ago.

[scrabbarista]

Still Jokic for me.

If there were two more nights in a row like the Wizards loss/ Pistons win, I'd flip to SGA.

That's obviously highly unlikely, but maybe SGA can chip away at it over the next month.

[Special_Puppy]

To be fair, Jokics defense against the Wizards was horrible. But he looked like he checked out in that game and only casually played offense. Looked really tired too...

His EPM prior for the Wizards game was +7.1 overall which includes his defense

Wow he’s plummeting? He was an 8.7 or something not long ago.

He’s at +8.0 EPM overall. His EPM Prior for that particular game was +7.1

[scrabbarista]

I just hope when the dust settles on all of this that there will be a healthier look back at these two insane seasons and both sides can be more respectful of the other.


Edit: I’m finally a RealGM. Just took almost 20 years lol.

Congratulations.

[AleksandarN]

Jokic is the only player who can drop 40/13/9 and have people attacking his performance the next day. A lot of people have lost the plot and or have been negatively polarized by Jokic fans

Cute how you list his stat line when absolutely no one here is criticizing his offense.

Lol just shows you; you didn’t even watch the game. So eager to troll. Sad bro

[scrabbarista]

Still Jokic for me.

If there were two more nights in a row like the Wizards loss/ Pistons win, I'd flip to SGA.

That's obviously highly unlikely, but maybe SGA can chip away at it over the next month.

I mean, that was about as much ground as it's realistically possible to gain in one day with both guys playing, but at the end of the day, it was still 1/82 of the season.

[OkcSinceSGA]

His EPM prior for the Wizards game was +7.1 overall which includes his defense

Wow he’s plummeting? He was an 8.7 or something not long ago.

He’s at +8.0 EPM overall. His EPM Prior for that particular game was +7.1

I haven’t checked for 2 weeks but SGA gap grew from .5 to a full +1 lead basically. Jokic at 8, SGA at 8.9. The gap also grew between them and Luka who is at 5.7. People don’t seem to be be grasping how big the gap between top 2 and 3 is currently. I STILL see a handful or more on this forum put Luka, Giannis etc over SGA.

The gap between 3rd (Luka) and 21st (Kyrie) is smaller than the gap between Jokic (2nd) and Luka.

[AleksandarN]

Wow he’s plummeting? He was an 8.7 or something not long ago.

He’s at +8.0 EPM overall. His EPM Prior for that particular game was +7.1

I haven’t checked for 2 weeks but SGA gap grew from .5 to a full +1 lead basically. Jokic at 8, SGA at 8.9. The gap also grew between them and Luka who is at 5.7. People don’t seem to be be grasping how big the gap between top 2 and 3 is currently. I STILL see a handful or more on this forum put Luka, Giannis etc over SGA.

The gap between 3rd (Luka) and 21st (Kyrie) is smaller than the gap between Jokic (2nd) and Luka.

Those two are lapping the field

[Special_Puppy]

What a pro wants. What a pro needs. Whatever makes me happy

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=kXz47zZ_dZNjyZ0pjPEBWQ

[RB34]

Boggles my mind people are arguing decimal points but in the same breath **** on Jokers stat lines.

[SpurNani]

Shouldn’t sit well with any purist basketball fan that the reigning MVP and “best basketball player in the world” was being hunted by a literal meme player in Jordan Poole.

[Special_Puppy]

Shouldn’t sit well with any purist basketball fan that the reigning MVP and “best basketball player in the world” was being hunted by a literal meme player in Jordan Poole.

People will come on here and attack a player for a 40/13/9 game. There are games where Jokic deserves criticism. This wasn’t one of them

[Big J]

Shouldn’t sit well with any purist basketball fan that the reigning MVP and “best basketball player in the world” was being hunted by a literal meme player in Jordan Poole.

People will come on here and attack a player for a 40/13/9 game. There are games where Jokic deserves criticism. This wasn’t one of them

Why do you keep bringing up 40/13/9 when that has nothing to do with his defense?

[OkcSinceSGA]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Closest match to MJ we have ever seen. Kobe aesthetically was closer, but not impact/efficiency wise.

[Infinite Llamas]

Shouldn’t sit well with any purist basketball fan that the reigning MVP and “best basketball player in the world” was being hunted by a literal meme player in Jordan Poole.

“Hunted”

He made one mid range shot that Jokic weakly contested and that counts as hunted now.

Watch the game.

[Infinite Llamas]

Shouldn’t sit well with any purist basketball fan that the reigning MVP and “best basketball player in the world” was being hunted by a literal meme player in Jordan Poole.

People will come on here and attack a player for a 40/13/9 game. There are games where Jokic deserves criticism. This wasn’t one of them

Why do you keep bringing up 40/13/9 when that has nothing to do with his defense?

So Jokic sucks so much on defense maybe Denver should trade him for Gobert. A great defensive player.

Murray
Braun
MPJ
Gordon
Gobert

What a team of world builders.

Jokic defense hasn’t been great but his offense is the only reason they have been in games recently. It’s why they live with his defensive warts. Because they don’t have a chance in hell to win without him.

[Big J]

People will come on here and attack a player for a 40/13/9 game. There are games where Jokic deserves criticism. This wasn’t one of them

Why do you keep bringing up 40/13/9 when that has nothing to do with his defense?

So Jokic sucks so much on defense maybe Denver should trade him for Gobert. A great defensive player.

Murray
Braun
MPJ
Gordon
Gobert

What a team of world builders.

Jokic defense hasn’t been great but his offense is the only reason they have been in games recently. It’s why they live with his defensive warts. Because they don’t have a chance in hell to win without him.

They just lost to the 14-51 wizards. You don’t need a great offense to beat them. All you need is to play with a little effort and show some pride. Contest layups and run out on open shooters. It’s easy to play hard on offense. Playing hard on defense takes more effort. Just because Jokic is great offensively doesn’t mean that his lackluster defense doesn’t rub off on his teammates. He’s the star, the rest of the team follows his lead.

[Slade3]

Why do you keep bringing up 40/13/9 when that has nothing to do with his defense?

So Jokic sucks so much on defense maybe Denver should trade him for Gobert. A great defensive player.

Murray
Braun
MPJ
Gordon
Gobert

What a team of world builders.

Jokic defense hasn’t been great but his offense is the only reason they have been in games recently. It’s why they live with his defensive warts. Because they don’t have a chance in hell to win without him.

They just lost to the 14-51 wizards. You don’t need a great offense to beat them. All you need is to play with a little effort and show some pride. Contest layups and run out on open shooters. It’s easy to play hard on offense. Playing hard on defense takes more effort. Just because Jokic is great offensively doesn’t mean that his lackluster defense doesn’t rub off on his teammates. He’s the star, the rest of the team follows his lead.

I'm an SGA fan and hate the Jokic fans, but it's just one game. In the NBA any team is capable of beating another one, it happens all the time.