KD vs Jimmy as an offensive generator

[AirP.]

What Butler did with Miami (two finals and ECF), KD had never done. Butler with Miami had no business to be in the Finals. He is better all around player than KD at the moment and in last 5 years.

Butler won 7 PO series w/o HC advantage and lost 2 PO series with HC advantage
Durant (excl GSW) won 2 PO series w/o HC advantage and lost 3 PO series with HC advantage

2001, KD (with Harden, no Kyrie) was an inch away from beating the eventual champs in game 7 in the 2nd round.

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[SpreeS]

What Butler did with Miami (two finals and ECF), KD had never done. Butler with Miami had no business to be in the Finals. He is better all around player than KD at the moment and in last 5 years.

Butler won 7 PO series w/o HC advantage and lost 2 PO series with HC advantage
Durant (excl GSW) won 2 PO series w/o HC advantage and lost 3 PO series with HC advantage

2001, KD (with Harden, no Kyrie) was an inch away from beating the eventual champs in game 7 in the 2nd round.

Watch on YouTube

Butler was one shot away from 3rd Finals appearance in 4 years.

[Onus]

Great topic of conversation. I think kd in his prime was better than butler in his prime. That said right now I'd rather have butler over kd.
Butler is hungrier for a title than kd. Butler is all-in, all the time and does what it takes to win.
I think after 2 titles, a torn Achilles, and much criticism for joining a super team kd has become complacent. He wants to win but only in a place where he is comfortable and free from criticism from players, teammates, fans or the media.
Jimmy is a natural born killer and doesn't care about the "noise" around him, he just wants to win.

I think conventional wisdom says KD's prime was greater than Butler's stretch run, but I'm not sure it's actually true. Butler is able to elevate teammates by drawing 2 from post ups/drives to the rim. This forces the defense to move and react. KD never really drove enough to constantly force the defense to move, which is why he's always needed another high scoring/high usage guard next to him. KD's game basically revolves around the midrange and pull ups and that's the shot teams are willing to concede now. Like someone said earlier, KD is the ultimate bail out option and he can score in any position. I want to see playoff Jimmy before I make any clear proclamation, but I do think it's a lot closer than people think. The hard thing is that Jimmy's regular season stats don't come close so it's a really hard comparison.

[AirP.]

What Butler did with Miami (two finals and ECF), KD had never done. Butler with Miami had no business to be in the Finals. He is better all around player than KD at the moment and in last 5 years.

Butler won 7 PO series w/o HC advantage and lost 2 PO series with HC advantage
Durant (excl GSW) won 2 PO series w/o HC advantage and lost 3 PO series with HC advantage

2001, KD (with Harden, no Kyrie) was an inch away from beating the eventual champs in game 7 in the 2nd round.

Watch on YouTube

Butler was one shot away from 3rd Finals appearance in 4 years.

Sure, Butler also played 3 of those games injured where he couldn't do much.

All I'm saying is you can't just go off of stats, there's context to them also.

My favorite player is Butler, but I'm good with saying KD has been better and probably is still better, he's a 7-foot incredible shooter. Although I love Butler's game it's very taxing on his body and it puts him in situations where players can end up injuring him and have time after time. The last injury in the play-in game was a fast break and he did a pump fake got Oubre in the air and came down awkward to injure Butler (although he stayed in the game limping). In fact, the one ECF Miami lost to Boston, 2022, Butler had knee issues that kept him out one game in the 1st round, was further injured in Boston which affected him in 3 games of that series.

Spoiler:

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[Upperclass]

KD has never actually learned how to play within movement based basketball schemes.. He's never had to.. which is why the only offense he can effectively run is an ISO based one which is incredible easy to guard unless you have a guard who can create like a Luka, Bron or Harden. KD almost lost the Warriors multiple series by his insistence on playing ISO Ball.

Jimmy knows how to play basketball.. he knows the tricks and the angles and how to win in the margins. His act wears out quickly but while he's focused, the team will benefit as he's a better fit than a KD.

[Ice Man]

In a vacuum, for your average team A, it is not particularly close - as a generator of offense KD is second to none

Hmmm. Jimmy Butler took a Bam + role players squad* to two Finals and Game 7 of a Conference Finals within a 4-year stretch. It's not clear to me that if you replaced Butler with Durant that Miami would have done better. I mean, that's VERY good, even granted that the East has been the weaker of the two conferences.

* Alright, the Heat had Dragic in 2020, and he was better than a role player. But his future replacement, Old Man Lowry, sucked raw eggs.

[Impuniti]

If playoff Jimmy means more scoring, i’m not even sure i want to see it. I’d rather he stay the course and be the ultimate glue guy. I think the team offensive efficiency will be higher that way.

I don't agree with that. Things are working now, but in the playoffs teams will study the Warriors and the team will need actual offensive firepower from him. Presuming the goal is to win another ring.

[Jester_]

2001, KD (with Harden, no Kyrie) was an inch away from beating the eventual champs in game 7 in the 2nd round.

Watch on YouTube

Butler was one shot away from 3rd Finals appearance in 4 years.

Sure, Butler also played 3 of those games injured where he couldn't do much.

All I'm saying is you can't just go off of stats, there's context to them also.

My favorite player is Butler, but I'm good with saying KD has been better and probably is still better, he's a 7-foot incredible shooter. Although I love Butler's game it's very taxing on his body and it puts him in situations where players can end up injuring him and have time after time. The last injury in the play-in game was a fast break and he did a pump fake got Oubre in the air and came down awkward to injure Butler (although he stayed in the game limping). In fact, the one ECF Miami lost to Boston, 2022, Butler had knee issues that kept him out one game in the 1st round, was further injured in Boston which affected him in 3 games of that series.

Spoiler:

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KD is better but Butler is probably the better fit for this team. His playmaking is essential.

[cladden]

scoring as individual is overrated. Let's say KD scores 30 a game on 63%TS ~ 48 FGA...Jimmy scores 20 a game on 58%TS ~ 34 FGA....that 10 points and 5%TS is very very small gap if you talking about one entire game ~ 115 pts.

Butler definitely provides a lot more playmaking, and I consider him a better offensive player right now. KD has regressed massively for the past years as playmaker

Those FGAs aren't quite right though.

[ILOVEIT]

KD is a finisher....Jimmy is closer to a point forward.