Patrick Williams is having his worst year

[GoBlue72391]

send him to g-league. He makes Christian Felicio s contract looking like the steal of the century.
As long as Giddey is out all remaining foward minutes should go to Smith and Huerter (and a minority to Terry and Phillips)

It is quite telling that a guy who has all the physical tools in the world cannot put it together or stay healthy. He also does not want it. My issue with Williams is he has no passion for playing. He is the opposite of a Paxson guy.

I really wish people would stop staying he has all the physical tools in the world. He's slow as **** and can barely get off the ground. Physical specimens don't have the worst dunk percentage in the league.

[DuckIII]

Why do you think anyone thinks that, including the organization?

KC Johnson apparently does, as my post responded to his statement.

I didn’t see that. I just saw the title saying they need to start together. I have to assume KC uses “cornerstone” to mean starter. If he means it the way you think he means it, he’s an idiot. Or if he’s saying the FO views it that way, they are idiots.

I also see nothing about Pat’s usage to suggest the FO actually does view Pat this way. Once they did, sure. But that was a long time ago.

But if he just means future starter next to Matas? I still think that is a reasonably likely outcome. But only with Pat as a role player. And then he has to be better than he is now to do even that.

[Ice Man]

I didn’t see that. I just saw the title saying they need to start together.

For "the future of the franchise," according to KC. That is the part that I dispute.

[DASMACKDOWN]

I didn’t see that. I just saw the title saying they need to start together.

For "the future of the franchise," according to KC. That is the part that I dispute.

I think Julian Phillips is alot closer to being future of the franchise than PWill. Julian is essentially PWill's replacement for 1/10th of the price.

[DuckIII]

I didn’t see that. I just saw the title saying they need to start together.

For "the future of the franchise," according to KC. That is the part that I dispute.

Well it’s obviously in the future so hard to object to him saying that’s when it would happen. The issue to me is he said the FO views Pat and Matas as “cornerstones” which is pretty ridiculous unless you have a very mild definition of cornerstone (for Pat) that no one else uses.

[dougthonus]

I didn’t see that. I just saw the title saying they need to start together.

For "the future of the franchise," according to KC. That is the part that I dispute.

Well it’s obviously in the future so hard to object to him saying that’s when it would happen. The issue to me is he said the FO views Pat and Matas as “cornerstones” which is pretty ridiculous unless you have a very mild definition of cornerstone (for Pat) that no one else uses.

I think more like "these are young guys we are committed to and feel have some potential, so we will call them cornerstones" than actual cornerstones in the sense of what a championship team would have. Effectively, I don't think he's willing to say "we have no cornerstones" which is the reality, and instead is just pushing the best options he can think of or the guys whom are youngish and likely to be here for a number of years.

[KissedByaRose1]

Just for fun, what was his best year?

[GoBlue72391]

I didn’t see that. I just saw the title saying they need to start together.

For "the future of the franchise," according to KC. That is the part that I dispute.

I think Julian Phillips is alot closer to being future of the franchise than PWill. Julian is essentially PWill's replacement for 1/10th of the price.

Neither of them are good. Phillips might prove to be a solid bench piece in time but he might also be out of the league. We need to aim higher than them.

[GoBlue72391]

Just for fun, what was his best year?

His rookie year, by far. He was in better shape and more athletic, though he was never the standout athlete that a lot of people think he was, or perplexingly, think he still is. He had a more well rounded offensive game beyond just catch and shoot jumpshots. He had a consistent pull-up mid and floater/push shot that has disappeared. I don't recall him struggling to finish or dribbling off his foot back then like he does now. There was the hope that he would get better as the years went on, but obviously that hasn't happened.

I was never high on him at all at any point, but as a rookie I could at least look at him and say "I can see why people are intrigued."

[League Circles]

Patrick should play the role of a "power-3" behind Giddey until further notice. He's more effective using his strength than his speed offensively, and defensively he's much better guarding the ball than the basket.

He's been extremely disappointing but I feel we absolutely must keep him in the rotation for at least another season or two to try to make it work due to his contract. Having that as pure dead weight for a 3rd string, DNP-CD would be a bigger disaster than putting him on the court. I still think he has the ability to be more helpful than guys like Terry, Huerter and Phillips. I also think he's looked substantially better since being benched, though the poor shooting is still a huge concern.

[eierluke]

Eddy Curry is exactly the guy who comes in mind, some things you can't teach.
Unfortunately it has been so obvious for years.
It really sends a horrible signal playing him instead of guys like Terry, who really want it.
Anyway, now that we have to swallow his contract, what can we do? Is there any chance to come to an agreement with the player, that he has a career ending injury, so that we have to pay him, but remain out of luxury tax land?

[Jcool0]

For "the future of the franchise," according to KC. That is the part that I dispute.

Well it’s obviously in the future so hard to object to him saying that’s when it would happen. The issue to me is he said the FO views Pat and Matas as “cornerstones” which is pretty ridiculous unless you have a very mild definition of cornerstone (for Pat) that no one else uses.

I think more like "these are young guys we are committed to and feel have some potential, so we will call them cornerstones" than actual cornerstones in the sense of what a championship team would have. Effectively, I don't think he's willing to say "we have no cornerstones" which is the reality, and instead is just pushing the best options he can think of or the guys whom are youngish and likely to be here for a number of years.

KC also said he sees very little value with Williams and expects him back with the Bulls next year.

[sco]

Well it’s obviously in the future so hard to object to him saying that’s when it would happen. The issue to me is he said the FO views Pat and Matas as “cornerstones” which is pretty ridiculous unless you have a very mild definition of cornerstone (for Pat) that no one else uses.

I think more like "these are young guys we are committed to and feel have some potential, so we will call them cornerstones" than actual cornerstones in the sense of what a championship team would have. Effectively, I don't think he's willing to say "we have no cornerstones" which is the reality, and instead is just pushing the best options he can think of or the guys whom are youngish and likely to be here for a number of years.

KC also said he sees very little value with Williams and expects him back with the Bulls next year.

At this point I think that KC was a victim of autocorrect from tombstone.

It isn't that uncommon for guys to try to be more than they are capable of, but Pat will have to get back to playing with his skillset to stay in the league after this contract. He's not in 10th man territory and on the bubble of not being playable.

[Ctownbulls]

send him to g-league. He makes Christian Felicio s contract looking like the steal of the century.
As long as Giddey is out all remaining foward minutes should go to Smith and Huerter (and a minority to Terry and Phillips)

It is quite telling that a guy who has all the physical tools in the world cannot put it together or stay healthy. He also does not want it. My issue with Williams is he has no passion for playing. He is the opposite of a Paxson guy.

I really wish people would stop staying he has all the physical tools in the world. He's slow as **** and can barely get off the ground. Physical specimens don't have the worst dunk percentage in the league.

He used to have a lot more tools. He went from 19 to 36 years old athletically real fast.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

I wish he was as aggressive as Tony Snell was.

[sco]

I wish he was as aggressive as Tony Snell was.

At this point, it would be a big improvement.

I want to blame Pat, but he IS doing what they've been asking him to do. He just isn't good enough. Now part, but definitely not all, of his bad play this season is tied to his lack of conditioning/weight going back to last offseason. And look, he's not THT out there, but he is definitely bulkier and slower.

[dougthonus]

I wish he was as aggressive as Tony Snell was.

At this point, it would be a big improvement.

I want to blame Pat, but he IS doing what they've been asking him to do. He just isn't good enough. Now part, but definitely not all, of his bad play this season is tied to his lack of conditioning/weight going back to last offseason. And look, he's not THT out there, but he is definitely bulkier and slower.

No one is asking Pat to not box out, not play help defense, not make basket cuts, not be able to dribble the ball twice without turning it over, etc...

[sco]

I wish he was as aggressive as Tony Snell was.

At this point, it would be a big improvement.

I want to blame Pat, but he IS doing what they've been asking him to do. He just isn't good enough. Now part, but definitely not all, of his bad play this season is tied to his lack of conditioning/weight going back to last offseason. And look, he's not THT out there, but he is definitely bulkier and slower.

No one is asking Pat to not box out, not play help defense, not make basket cuts, not be able to dribble the ball twice without turning it over, etc...

Fair enough. But do we want a guy who can't make a layup making basket cuts?

The interesting question is whether Phillips should be in next season's rotation instead of PWill. IMO, Phillips has outplayed Pat comfortably this season. Next season, assuming Vuc (optimistically) and Tre (unfortunately) are gone, I see something like:

Ball, Ayo
White, Huerter
Giddey, Terry
Matas, Phillips
Collins, Smith

With our #1 in there somewhere.

[DuckIII]

For "the future of the franchise," according to KC. That is the part that I dispute.

Well it’s obviously in the future so hard to object to him saying that’s when it would happen. The issue to me is he said the FO views Pat and Matas as “cornerstones” which is pretty ridiculous unless you have a very mild definition of cornerstone (for Pat) that no one else uses.

I think more like "these are young guys we are committed to and feel have some potential, so we will call them cornerstones" than actual cornerstones in the sense of what a championship team would have. Effectively, I don't think he's willing to say "we have no cornerstones" which is the reality, and instead is just pushing the best options he can think of or the guys whom are youngish and likely to be here for a number of years.

I agree. I also would be fine with KC only saying that about Matas. Even as someone who still considers it likely Pat earns his small contract, there’s no reason for the organization to hold him out as a future piece to get excited about as fans.

[eierluke]

If we don't want to pay this horrible amount of money for nothing we need to seperate him from the team for one year and should hire a team of personal coaches that is going to teach him the basics, trying to be motivated, outboxing, cutting, rebounding techniqs, beeing aware of what happens around him, ... .
Such a 4 coach team around the clock might cost a few hundred thousands per year. Peanuts in relation to the 18 mio we'd wasting otherwise.