Elephant in the room but isn't Barnes suppose to be getting better?

[Tripod]

This might sound weird, but at least with likely limiting his offense, he seems OK with that if he is still involved...assist wise, rebound wise, etc...

Because he is not a "me offense 1st" type, it's less of an issue because he knows he can contribute elsewhere.

[Raps in 4]

My question to you is, do you think it’s at least better that he’s able to get to his shots and just can’t finish than not being able to get to these shots at all? I would like to think it’s easier to work on your finishing ability than learn how to get to your spots. Don’t know how true that is

I suspect that his chances of improving his finishing are higher than suddenly developing the ability to get there in the first place.

And I have some hopes for him as an off-ball guy cutting around the paint, and in transition, because he already seems to do that pretty well. The trick is in figuring out the right ratio of letting him play on-ball to working him without the ball so that he's efficient enough that he isnt' tanking our offense and we're still letting him function enough as a playmaker.

EDIT: I'd love to see him more as the screener in the PnR, if he can figure out competent screens.

This is one of those things that have absolutely confounded me, in 4 years we STILL haven't taught him how to set a proper screen. He would feast in the PnR, and all we do is force feed him 3pt shots most of the year, and all his off season training is shooting a terrible 3.

Scotties development is the poster child for square peg, round hole. He's not going to be a top 5 player, but sweet christ, the raptors are definitely at fault for him not getting better.

This falls squarely on Masai. Normally he's great at developing players, but he's completely mismanaged Scottie. I get the desire to try and mould him into an elite offensive player, but it shouldn't need to take you four years to realize he lacks the requisite talent to develop certain skills.

I remember on draft day when we picked Scottie, Masai made it a point to emphasize that you can't teach length, but you can teach shooting. I feel he's trying (and failing) to prove his point with Scottie.

[Scase]

I suspect that his chances of improving his finishing are higher than suddenly developing the ability to get there in the first place.

And I have some hopes for him as an off-ball guy cutting around the paint, and in transition, because he already seems to do that pretty well. The trick is in figuring out the right ratio of letting him play on-ball to working him without the ball so that he's efficient enough that he isnt' tanking our offense and we're still letting him function enough as a playmaker.

EDIT: I'd love to see him more as the screener in the PnR, if he can figure out competent screens.

This is one of those things that have absolutely confounded me, in 4 years we STILL haven't taught him how to set a proper screen. He would feast in the PnR, and all we do is force feed him 3pt shots most of the year, and all his off season training is shooting a terrible 3.

Scotties development is the poster child for square peg, round hole. He's not going to be a top 5 player, but sweet christ, the raptors are definitely at fault for him not getting better.

This falls squarely on Masai. Normally he's great at developing players, but he's completely mismanaged Scottie. I get the desire to try and mould him into an elite offensive player, but it shouldn't need to take you four years to realize he lacks the requisite talent to develop certain skills.

I remember on draft day when we picked Scottie, Masai made it a point to emphasize that you can't teach length, but you can teach shooting. I feel he's trying (and failing) to prove his point with Scottie.

Masai has been trying to prove that point for like the last 6-8 years and it has never worked out. You have to have players that at least show SOME aptitude shooting and move from there. Scottie has never had a shooting touch, and you don't just magically start to develop that in your 20s.

I'm seeing a lot of the same tendencies that Masai has with Scottie that he has had with plenty of other players, some misguided "I can fix him" mentality. Same mindset that had him so attached to the FVV/Siakam combo/core, sometimes things are exactly what they seem to be, and not everything has some latent untapped hidden potential.

I have been saying this for quite some time now, but you gotta learn to crawl before you walk, and right now we're trying to teach Scottie to run. Focus on the strengths and get him good at those, instead making him a crappy jack of all trades where he isn't good at any one thing specifically.

[brownbobcat]

This isn't entirely true. Scottie seems to be able to get into the paint without much issue. The problem is finishing when he shoots from there, and especially when he's outside of the paint. But based on his volume and shot distribution, him getting southbound isn't the problem. A screen, half a step and he can muscle forward to get on the spot he wants pretty well. That hasn't been the problem.

The problem is that "in the paint" is different than "at the rim", it's the latter that is much more valuable. If you look at Sabonis, his zone shooting % splits have not been that different from Barnes historically, he just gets all the way to the rim more frequently.

[C_Money]

This is one of those things that have absolutely confounded me, in 4 years we STILL haven't taught him how to set a proper screen. He would feast in the PnR, and all we do is force feed him 3pt shots most of the year, and all his off season training is shooting a terrible 3.

Scotties development is the poster child for square peg, round hole. He's not going to be a top 5 player, but sweet christ, the raptors are definitely at fault for him not getting better.

This falls squarely on Masai. Normally he's great at developing players, but he's completely mismanaged Scottie. I get the desire to try and mould him into an elite offensive player, but it shouldn't need to take you four years to realize he lacks the requisite talent to develop certain skills.

I remember on draft day when we picked Scottie, Masai made it a point to emphasize that you can't teach length, but you can teach shooting. I feel he's trying (and failing) to prove his point with Scottie.

Masai has been trying to prove that point for like the last 6-8 years and it has never worked out. You have to have players that at least show SOME aptitude shooting and move from there. Scottie has never had a shooting touch, and you don't just magically start to develop that in your 20s.

Masai and Jeff Weltman both learnt that lesson the hard way lol.

[tsherkin]

This isn't entirely true. Scottie seems to be able to get into the paint without much issue. The problem is finishing when he shoots from there, and especially when he's outside of the paint. But based on his volume and shot distribution, him getting southbound isn't the problem. A screen, half a step and he can muscle forward to get on the spot he wants pretty well. That hasn't been the problem.

The problem is that "in the paint" is different than "at the rim", it's the latter that is much more valuable. If you look at Sabonis, his zone shooting % splits have not been that different from Barnes historically, he just gets all the way to the rim more frequently.

Yep, that is definitely an issue for Scottie.

[Scase]

This falls squarely on Masai. Normally he's great at developing players, but he's completely mismanaged Scottie. I get the desire to try and mould him into an elite offensive player, but it shouldn't need to take you four years to realize he lacks the requisite talent to develop certain skills.

I remember on draft day when we picked Scottie, Masai made it a point to emphasize that you can't teach length, but you can teach shooting. I feel he's trying (and failing) to prove his point with Scottie.

Masai has been trying to prove that point for like the last 6-8 years and it has never worked out. You have to have players that at least show SOME aptitude shooting and move from there. Scottie has never had a shooting touch, and you don't just magically start to develop that in your 20s.

Masai and Jeff Weltman both learnt that lesson the hard way lol.

While I can't fully speak for Weltman, I can confidently say that Masai has yet to actually learn it

[PushDaRock]

I suspect that his chances of improving his finishing are higher than suddenly developing the ability to get there in the first place.

And I have some hopes for him as an off-ball guy cutting around the paint, and in transition, because he already seems to do that pretty well. The trick is in figuring out the right ratio of letting him play on-ball to working him without the ball so that he's efficient enough that he isnt' tanking our offense and we're still letting him function enough as a playmaker.

EDIT: I'd love to see him more as the screener in the PnR, if he can figure out competent screens.

This is one of those things that have absolutely confounded me, in 4 years we STILL haven't taught him how to set a proper screen. He would feast in the PnR, and all we do is force feed him 3pt shots most of the year, and all his off season training is shooting a terrible 3.

Scotties development is the poster child for square peg, round hole. He's not going to be a top 5 player, but sweet christ, the raptors are definitely at fault for him not getting better.

This falls squarely on Masai. Normally he's great at developing players, but he's completely mismanaged Scottie. I get the desire to try and mould him into an elite offensive player, but it shouldn't need to take you four years to realize he lacks the requisite talent to develop certain skills.

I remember on draft day when we picked Scottie, Masai made it a point to emphasize that you can't teach length, but you can teach shooting. I feel he's trying (and failing) to prove his point with Scottie.

Were you both blaming Masai for ruining his development last season when he took a big step in his game and became an All-Star (debatable whether deserved or not)? Yeah I highly doubt it, so many people wanted to get rid of Siakam because they thought he was holding Scottie back. Pretty hilarious now that a lot of those people that thought that are now acting like it was obvious Scottie would never develop a jumper.

[Raptaurus]

Masai has been trying to prove that point for like the last 6-8 years and it has never worked out. You have to have players that at least show SOME aptitude shooting and move from there. Scottie has never had a shooting touch, and you don't just magically start to develop that in your 20s.

Masai and Jeff Weltman both learnt that lesson the hard way lol.

While I can't fully speak for Weltman, I can confidently say that Masai has yet to actually learn it

I was surprised when they drafted Gradey. I mean, he was supposed to be the best pure dead eye 3 point shooter coming out of the draft. Not exactly the Masai/Webster type. But this past year, they went back to their same old draft habits - drafting Mogbo instead of a stretch center like Flip.

[anotherhomer]

lol can we trade scottie?

[Indeed]

Masai and Jeff Weltman both learnt that lesson the hard way lol.

While I can't fully speak for Weltman, I can confidently say that Masai has yet to actually learn it

I was surprised when they drafted Gradey. I mean, he was supposed to be the best pure dead eye 3 point shooter coming out of the draft. Not exactly the Masai/Webster type. But this past year, they went back to their same old draft habits - drafting Mogbo instead of a stretch center like Flip.

They usually draft BPA for the top pick, then they draft their own type in the late 1st or top 2nd.
We drafted Poeltl who is the consensus pick in top 10, while Siakam was a surprise pick in the late 1st.

[Los_29]

I suspect that his chances of improving his finishing are higher than suddenly developing the ability to get there in the first place.

And I have some hopes for him as an off-ball guy cutting around the paint, and in transition, because he already seems to do that pretty well. The trick is in figuring out the right ratio of letting him play on-ball to working him without the ball so that he's efficient enough that he isnt' tanking our offense and we're still letting him function enough as a playmaker.

EDIT: I'd love to see him more as the screener in the PnR, if he can figure out competent screens.

This is one of those things that have absolutely confounded me, in 4 years we STILL haven't taught him how to set a proper screen. He would feast in the PnR, and all we do is force feed him 3pt shots most of the year, and all his off season training is shooting a terrible 3.

Scotties development is the poster child for square peg, round hole. He's not going to be a top 5 player, but sweet christ, the raptors are definitely at fault for him not getting better.

This falls squarely on Masai. Normally he's great at developing players, but he's completely mismanaged Scottie. I get the desire to try and mould him into an elite offensive player, but it shouldn't need to take you four years to realize he lacks the requisite talent to develop certain skills.

I remember on draft day when we picked Scottie, Masai made it a point to emphasize that you can't teach length, but you can teach shooting. I feel he's trying (and failing) to prove his point with Scottie.

Scottie is at fault for not getting better. No one else.

[tsherkin]

Scottie is at fault for not getting better. No one else.

I'm 90/10 with this. The team SHOULD be making certain points of emphasis for him, like screen setting, but beyond that, he's his own man.

[TakeYourHeart]

This might sound weird, but at least with likely limiting his offense, he seems OK with that if he is still involved...assist wise, rebound wise, etc...

Because he is not a "me offense 1st" type, it's less of an issue because he knows he can contribute elsewhere.

I disagree...he wants to be PG, lists himself as PG on socials, went to a school that let him be PG, and was slightly in his feels when Quickley came back and assumed the role.

Watch on YouTube

@1m40s

I don't know i we can say for sure he'll be happy playing in an optimal role for his skillet, the entire development focus up to this point has been about what kind of player Scottie wants to be more than anything and it's ain't a screener.

[Tripod]

This might sound weird, but at least with likely limiting his offense, he seems OK with that if he is still involved...assist wise, rebound wise, etc...

Because he is not a "me offense 1st" type, it's less of an issue because he knows he can contribute elsewhere.

I disagree...he wants to be PG, lists himself as PG on socials, went to a school that let him be PG, and was slightly in his feels when Quickley came back and assumed the role.

Watch on YouTube

@1m40s

I don't know i we can say for sure he'll be happy playing in an optimal role for his skillet, the entire development focus up to this point has been about what kind of player Scottie wants to be more than anything and it's ain't a screener.

Look how him and IQ have been playing together...he 100% let's IQ be the main ball handler.

[Scott Hall]

Scottie is at fault for not getting better. No one else.

I'm 90/10 with this. The team SHOULD be making certain points of emphasis for him, like screen setting, but beyond that, he's his own man.

At least they got Ingram that should help him next year as he should face less double teams and get the other
teams best defender on him and be there focal point to stop.

Also Darko needs some blame some of his shot selection would not fly under most coaches. There were times
this year I remember him casually taking pull up transition 3's with no rebounders under the net and him not
putting his legs into it and it just resembling a YMCA pick up game.

Also he was coming off a broken hand/wrist coming into the season and then gets the Jokic elbow to
the eye that looked nasty with the blood shot eye that must play a factor in his shooting plummeting this year.

He clearly has never really been confident in his offensive bag which might explain why he's been passive in
the past and I know the Raps consider it growing pains and he needs his reps to develop but it might just be
hurting his confidence. I also think he could use a vet like a Charles Oakley type to challenge him to be great.

But I'm hoping Ingram and the Lotto pick if he's a scorer will take the pressure off him and being used properly
offensively will reboot him. But he defintely has to be in the gym working on his offensive bag this summer to
earn his contract.

[tsherkin]

At least they got Ingram that should help him next year as he should face less double teams and get the other
teams best defender on him and be there focal point to stop.

It will certainly open up some new opportunities when BI is on the floor, absolutely.

I also think he could use a vet like a Charles Oakley type to challenge him to be great.

Certainly helped with Vince.

But I'm hoping Ingram and the Lotto pick if he's a scorer will take the pressure off him and being used properly
offensively will reboot him. But he defintely has to be in the gym working on his offensive bag this summer to
earn his contract.

I'm very unclear what the lotto pick will be. But we've got BI and RJ, and then yeah, if the lotto pick is any kind of on-ball guy, that will be a thing.

So Scottie's usage SHOULD go down, and we should be emphasizing him finding ways to score as an off-ball guy.

[Raps in 4]

This is one of those things that have absolutely confounded me, in 4 years we STILL haven't taught him how to set a proper screen. He would feast in the PnR, and all we do is force feed him 3pt shots most of the year, and all his off season training is shooting a terrible 3.

Scotties development is the poster child for square peg, round hole. He's not going to be a top 5 player, but sweet christ, the raptors are definitely at fault for him not getting better.

This falls squarely on Masai. Normally he's great at developing players, but he's completely mismanaged Scottie. I get the desire to try and mould him into an elite offensive player, but it shouldn't need to take you four years to realize he lacks the requisite talent to develop certain skills.

I remember on draft day when we picked Scottie, Masai made it a point to emphasize that you can't teach length, but you can teach shooting. I feel he's trying (and failing) to prove his point with Scottie.

Scottie is at fault for not getting better. No one else.

It's up to management to identify what Scottie's strengths and weaknesses are and to direct his development based on that. Scottie is clearly limited in the talent department. It's year four of trying to teach him to shoot, and it hasn't worked out. It's time to change course. You don't leave it up to your most prized asset to figure **** out on his own. This team is **** for the foreseeable future if he doesn't pan out.

[PushDaRock]

This is one of those things that have absolutely confounded me, in 4 years we STILL haven't taught him how to set a proper screen. He would feast in the PnR, and all we do is force feed him 3pt shots most of the year, and all his off season training is shooting a terrible 3.

Scotties development is the poster child for square peg, round hole. He's not going to be a top 5 player, but sweet christ, the raptors are definitely at fault for him not getting better.

This falls squarely on Masai. Normally he's great at developing players, but he's completely mismanaged Scottie. I get the desire to try and mould him into an elite offensive player, but it shouldn't need to take you four years to realize he lacks the requisite talent to develop certain skills.

I remember on draft day when we picked Scottie, Masai made it a point to emphasize that you can't teach length, but you can teach shooting. I feel he's trying (and failing) to prove his point with Scottie.

Scottie is at fault for not getting better. No one else.

The excuses are just getting ridiculous. First, it was all the vets like FVV and Siakam not letting him shine and forcing him into a role player. But now, the excuse is that management actually allowed him too much freedom to shoot 3's and work on his offensive game instead of forcing him to stick to being a role player.

[dTox]

lol can we trade scottie?

If we draft another forward with our lotto pick, that should be on the table, I'm not advocating for it, but at least listen to offers. A team like Houston is a perfect candidate

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