Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Horst Given Extension

raferfenix · Post #501 » by **raferfenix** » Thu Mar 20, 2025 1:19 pm

Has there been much/any national media coverage questioning Doc’s coaching?

The Bucks paying 3 coaches to not coach at the same time isn’t impossible but only so much precedent for that.

Horst having only a year or two on his contract (if anyone can confirm how many please do I don’t see any reporting more detailed) after reportedly wanting to interview with the Pistons last year is a whole different story.

raferfenix · Post #502 » by **raferfenix** » Thu Mar 20, 2025 1:25 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:I’d like to start a Dame TI thread but know many of the other guys on here would flip out.

Dick Tate wrote:Since when have you needed a separate thread?

PP25. You’ve been dared! Do it / allow it.

Who knows if the media were to pick up on the story and Dame’s crew hears about it maybe they’ll tell their boy he’s tarnishing his legacy if he doesn’t step it up.

fan230 · Post #503 » by **fan230** » Thu Mar 20, 2025 1:33 pm

It is clear that our offense is missing Khris. I am wondering if there was a way by which Horst could have talked to Khris and persuaded him to take less than the amount he had the player option for. Does anyone know the answer to this question?

Kuzma was brought here to be Khris’ replacement and our 3rd star. He has failed very badly on offense. That is why even with Dame and Giannis, our offense is anything but a smooth well oiled machine.

We need someone else to replace kuzma for starting minutes. Prince as sf along with kpj as sg would be a possibility I would like to see.

Alternatively Prince plus Green or Trent.

Kuzma can be plugged into the bench lineup suitably.

When Portis returns, he could be the starting sf, and kpj the starting sg.

We can’t do roster change now. We can only try different lineups to see what works best.

Other thoughts on lineup changes would be interesting to see.

BigO · Post #504 » by **BigO** » Thu Mar 20, 2025 2:10 pm

fan230 wrote:It is clear that our offense is missing Khris. I am wondering if there was a way by which Horst could have talked to Khris and persuaded him to take less than the amount he had the player option for. Does anyone know the answer to this question?

Kuzma was brought here to be Khris’ replacement and our 3rd star. He has failed very badly on offense. That is why even with Dame and Giannis, our offense is anything but a smooth well oiled machine.

We need someone else to replace kuzma for starting minutes. Prince as sf along with kpj as sg would be a possibility I would like to see.

Alternatively Prince plus Green or Trent.

Kuzma can be plugged into the bench lineup suitably.

When Portis returns, he could be the starting sf, and kpj the starting sg.

We can’t do roster change now. We can only try different lineups to see what works best.

Other thoughts on lineup changes would be interesting to see.

You have zeroed in on the main problem. The demise of KM. Without him, the Bucks are a slightly above average team, as their record indicates.

All the wasted words about coaches and bench players ignore that with the present roster, there is no champioship.

ShootingtheJ · Post #505 » by **ShootingtheJ** » Thu Mar 20, 2025 2:11 pm

The Bucks have been a top 4 team this year with Giannis on and Dame off. Rebuilding post Dame won't be that hard.

The most interesting thing for the rest of this year is what we look like with KPJ at PG. If he can be our PG, this becomes much easier to build around. His past makes him distressed asset, which will keep his contract market limited. If he's matured, that's a huge win for us. We just have to let it play out.

fan230 · Post #506 » by **fan230** » Thu Mar 20, 2025 2:23 pm

ShootingtheJ wrote:The Bucks have been a top 4 team this year with Giannis on and Dame off. Rebuilding post Dame won't be that hard.

The most interesting thing for the rest of this year is what we look like with KPJ at PG. If he can be our PG, this becomes much easier to build around. His past makes him distressed asset, which will keep his contract market limited. If he's matured, that's a huge win for us. We just have to let it play out.

To do or test that, we have to give kpj starter minutes starting Today. Imperative in my mind.

Post #507 » by **paulpressey25** » Thu Mar 20, 2025 2:42 pm

BigO wrote:You have zeroed in on the main problem. The demise of KM. Without him, the Bucks are a slightly above average team, as their record indicates.

Don't disagree with this.

But what does this say about our two max superstars that they needed a third all-star to drag this team to 50-wins?

Baddy Chuck · Post #508 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Thu Mar 20, 2025 2:43 pm

ShootingtheJ wrote:The Bucks have been a top 4 team this year with Giannis on and Dame off.

Using this logic we're a top 6 team with Dame and Giannis together.

BUCKnation · Post #509 » by **BUCKnation** » Thu Mar 20, 2025 3:30 pm

I'll give doc credit for putting together a good defense, but the offense is just inexcusable. Grief, running I guess what he learned from Stotts or whatever, had the team consistently hitting 120-130 every night and he barely had Khris.

msiris · Post #510 » by **msiris** » Thu Mar 20, 2025 3:30 pm

Kris wasn't taking us to the promise land. In fact neither is Dame and Giannis.

CharityStripe34 · Post #511 » by **CharityStripe34** » Thu Mar 20, 2025 3:38 pm

BUCKnation wrote:I'll give doc credit for putting together a good defense, but the offense is just inexcusable. Grief, running I guess what he learned from Stotts or whatever, had the team consistently hitting 120-130 every night and he barely had Khris.

It's bizarre that in two seasons we've had Jekyll and Hyde fluctuations offensively and defensively and haven't been able to do both at the same time.

#BringBackGriffin

msiris · Post #512 » by **msiris** » Thu Mar 20, 2025 3:54 pm

BigO wrote:You have zeroed in on the main problem. The demise of KM. Without him, the Bucks are a slightly above average team, as their record indicates.

Bull. He didn't help us this season. We weren't a 50 win team with him and we are not one without him. Yes it's disappointing that all we could get was Kuzma but blame our gm for that move.

emunney · Post #513 » by **emunney** » Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:13 pm

msiris wrote:
BigO wrote:You have zeroed in on the main problem. The demise of KM. Without him, the Bucks are a slightly above average team, as their record indicates.
Bull. He didn't help us this season. We weren't a 50 win team with him and we are not one without him. Yes it's disappointing that all we could get was Kuzma but blame our gm for that move.

Whether it's because of trade or decline, the Khris that we needed for this team has not been available to it. The point isn't that the trade was bad. That's a separate discussion. The point is that, agnostic to reason, Khris, or, more specifically, the version of Khris this team needs, is gone without a replacement. And THAT's the main problem. And as you note, it was a problem before he was traded, at least in the regular season.

Dick Tate · Post #514 » by **Dick Tate** » Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:23 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
BigO wrote:You have zeroed in on the main problem. The demise of KM. Without him, the Bucks are a slightly above average team, as their record indicates.

Don't disagree with this.

But what does this say about our two max superstars that they needed a third all-star to drag this team to 50-wins?

I don't know about the 3rd all-star requirement but i'd have a hard time identifying many playoff teams that don't have two starting caliber guards on their roster.

pifhluk23 · Post #515 » by **pifhluk23** » Thu Mar 20, 2025 4:59 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
rilamann wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:Some teams will talk themselves into Dame. I'm not worried about that.

The bad thing about Dame for us is that he's grossly overrated,

The great thing about Dame for us is that he's grossly overrated.

It's going to come down to the playoffs. Am willing to entertain the idea that he's got a 2nd gear he doesn't use in the regular season.

He definitely does. Did everyone forget the Pacers series last year? I will remain optimistic that we can for sure win the 1st rd and have a shot at winning 2nd rd but I really want Knicks & Celtics. Maybe the team does too...

Ron Swanson · Post #516 » by **Ron Swanson** » Thu Mar 20, 2025 5:23 pm

Team did fine the year Khris missed all but 30-games (58-24, best record in the league). Look at that roster around Jrue/Giannis/Brook. Absolutely nothing special but somehow still looked like a top-tier contender. People can keep blaming the “talent” but I don’t see that big of a talent deficiency at all. It really shouldn’t be this hard to build around a Top-3 and Top 20-25 player.

fansinceforever · Post #517 » by **fansinceforever** » Thu Mar 20, 2025 5:26 pm

Building a contender with our situation will be incredibly difficult no matter how you frame it.

Turk Nowitzki · Post #518 » by **Turk Nowitzki** » Thu Mar 20, 2025 5:31 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Team did fine the year Khris missed all but 30-games (58-24, best record in the league). Look at that roster around Jrue/Giannis/Brook. Absolutely nothing special but somehow still looked like a top-tier contender. People can keep blaming the “talent” but I don’t see that big of a talent deficiency at all. It really shouldn’t be this hard to build around a Top-3 and Top 20-25 player.

BigO's head will explode reading this take.

I completely agree with you btw

JonHeist · Post #519 » by **JonHeist** » Thu Mar 20, 2025 5:32 pm

the way I see it the "problem" is like 40% bad coaching, 40% not caring about the regular season (and those two issues exacerbate each other), 20% roster construction

CharityStripe34 · Post #520 » by **CharityStripe34** » Thu Mar 20, 2025 5:36 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Team did fine the year Khris missed all but 30-games (58-24, best record in the league). Look at that roster around Jrue/Giannis/Brook. Absolutely nothing special but somehow still looked like a top-tier contender. People can keep blaming the “talent” but I don’t see that big of a talent deficiency at all. It really shouldn’t be this hard to build around a Top-3 and Top 20-25 player.

Giannis should've gotten MVP that year instead of Embiid. He was a bull and was still demolishing dudes defensively in the pick and roll (ranked 1st guarding screener and ball-handler).