LaMelephant: The LaMelo Ball Thread (#2)

[Rich4114]

We traded for Nurk because we thought we traded Mark. So unless we also plan on trading Mark again, I don't think we'll keep Nurk. He's too expensive to be a backup.

i don't even think it's that. we traded for Nurk because there was a 1st round pick attached and we gave up raw sewage to get it. I'd be quite surprised to see Nurk on the team at all next year

I'd be surprised to NOT see him on the team next year since he has a guaranteed $19m contract nobody seems to want. How could we move off of him without waiving/stretching? Maybe by the deadline he can be moved as an expiring for something of value but it might be hard to do that in the off-season when teams still have hopes and dreams and health.

[fatlever]

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Very fair point here by plow But he also discussed in his recent podcast. Sometimes life gets in the way of basketball. And there's no doubt that his father going through all this had an impact on his energy and focus over the past few months.

[fatlever]

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Top/Bottom 4 guards in FG% within 5 feet of the basket this season (min 100 FGA):

76.4 — Gary Payton II
72.1 — Tyrese Haliburton
72.0 — Josh Hart
70.4 — Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
…
50.5 — Talen Horton-Tucker
50.0 — LaMelo Ball
50.0 — Keon Johnson
47.6 — Fred VanVleet

[HornetJail]

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Top/Bottom 4 guards in FG% within 5 feet of the basket this season (min 100 FGA):

76.4 — Gary Payton II
72.1 — Tyrese Haliburton
72.0 — Josh Hart
70.4 — Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
…
50.5 — Talen Horton-Tucker
50.0 — LaMelo Ball
50.0 — Keon Johnson
47.6 — Fred VanVleet

I'd be curious to know where that was 15 games into the season when LaMelo was actually at full strength. because he definitely hasn't looked anywhere near himself since then, and it showed first in his ability to get to the basket

[yosemiteben]

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Top/Bottom 4 guards in FG% within 5 feet of the basket this season (min 100 FGA):

76.4 — Gary Payton II
72.1 — Tyrese Haliburton
72.0 — Josh Hart
70.4 — Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
…
50.5 — Talen Horton-Tucker
50.0 — LaMelo Ball
50.0 — Keon Johnson
47.6 — Fred VanVleet

I'd be curious to know where that was 15 games into the season when LaMelo was actually at full strength. because he definitely hasn't looked anywhere near himself since then, and it showed first in his ability to get to the basket

Scrolling through the stats by month is kinda nuts:

October = 44.4% on 4.5 attempts per game
November = 55.4% on 6.6 attempts per game
December = 66.7% on 3.0 attempts per game
January = 55.6% on 4.0 attempts per game
February = 28.6% on 1.6 attempts per game
March = 31.4% on 4.4 attempts per game

Stats from the NBA stats site - https://www.nba.com/stats/players/shooting

[JMAC3]

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Top/Bottom 4 guards in FG% within 5 feet of the basket this season (min 100 FGA):

76.4 — Gary Payton II
72.1 — Tyrese Haliburton
72.0 — Josh Hart
70.4 — Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
…
50.5 — Talen Horton-Tucker
50.0 — LaMelo Ball
50.0 — Keon Johnson
47.6 — Fred VanVleet

I'd be curious to know where that was 15 games into the season when LaMelo was actually at full strength. because he definitely hasn't looked anywhere near himself since then, and it showed first in his ability to get to the basket

Scrolling through the stats by month is kinda nuts:

October = 44.4% on 4.5 attempts per game
November = 55.4% on 6.6 attempts per game
December = 66.7% on 3.0 attempts per game
January = 55.6% on 4.0 attempts per game
February = 28.6% on 1.6 attempts per game
March = 31.4% on 4.4 attempts per game

Stats from the NBA stats site - https://www.nba.com/stats/players/shooting

I have pretty much quit trying to take any stat from this season mattering. When you have 3 Gleague players on the floor 60% of the time it is going to negatively affect everyone.

Tyrese Maxey efficiency is down.
Dejounte Murray efficiency is down.
Scottie Barnes efficiency is down.
DeAron Fox efficiency went down when he went to Spurs.

It is almost like having good players around you makes the game easier, having pathetic teammates around you makes the game way harder.

[HornetJail]

yeah that tracks. lower percentage than i would've expected in October and November, but on the attempts alone, you can tell he hasn't been right these last couple months

(fair warning on the December stats... that's a 4 game sample size, so he made 8/12 shots)

[HornetJail]

I have pretty much quit trying to take any stat from this season mattering. When you have 3 Gleague players on the floor 60% of the time it is going to negatively affect everyone.

Tyrese Maxey efficiency is down.
Dejounte Murray efficiency is down.
Scottie Barnes efficiency is down.
DeAron Fox efficiency went down when he went to Spurs.

It is almost like having good players around you makes the game easier, having pathetic teammates around you makes the game way harder.

same but the problem is we've had THREE CONSECUTIVE seasons of this ****. I can't believe two different front offices have managed to put pure toxic waste around Melo, for more than half his career.

[JMAC3]

I have pretty much quit trying to take any stat from this season mattering. When you have 3 Gleague players on the floor 60% of the time it is going to negatively affect everyone.

Tyrese Maxey efficiency is down.
Dejounte Murray efficiency is down.
Scottie Barnes efficiency is down.
DeAron Fox efficiency went down when he went to Spurs.

It is almost like having good players around you makes the game easier, having pathetic teammates around you makes the game way harder.

same but the problem is we've had THREE CONSECUTIVE seasons of this ****. I can't believe two different front offices have managed to put pure toxic waste around Melo, for more than half his career.

I mean I can, the current front office traded away half our rotation players for future draft picks. The most obvious outcome in that scenario would be worse, then double down on that with our good players never being healthy.

I still stand by that adding two guys in the Rui Hachimura, Colin Sexton talent level range and this team probably puts up a Bulls type of season even with the injuries. In that alternate universe maybe we don't end up bottom 3 and we actually are trying to win games instead of outright tanking and resting guys.

[fatlever]

Which rotation players are you referring to?
rozier = has been awful for heat
hayward = retired, and we got mann
pj = traded for grant, curry = wash if not for injury = bad luck, not reduction of talent
nick = essentially for moose/nurk - Yes I realize it was a separate trade
cody = hurt = plus we got okogie = equal talent, but again, bad luck
micic = has played 1 min for suns
cap space = green
cap space = jefferies

So if not for injuries that core of players we traded would be out of rotation for including the following players in the rotation:
mann, grant, okogie, curry, nurkic, moose, green, jefferies

It's the injuries that destroyed the depth on this roster, not the trading away of our old rotation players for draft picks and equally talented players. Green has been a massive disappointment, but other than that the rest is injuries.

[fatlever]

on paper
melo / mann / kj
green / nsj / curry
miller / okogie / jefferies
miles / grant / salaun
mark / nurk / moose

vs

melo / kj
rozier / nsj
miller / cody
miles / pj / salaun
mark / nick / moose

I'd rather have the roster on the top. Not to mention the numerous picks that came with it.

[JDR720]

The main trades (PJ and Rozier and Hayward) technically happened with Mitch in charge. So this new front office has yet to really do much of anything in regards to team building.

The Mark trade was their first big attempt.

[yosemiteben]

The main trades (PJ and Rozier and Hayward) technically happened with Mitch in charge. So this new front office has yet to really do much of anything in regards to team building.

The Mark trade was their first big attempt.

They made three trades that would have yielded 3 1sts and an unprotected swap while returning rotation worthy players and churning the back end of the roster. Not exactly sitting around doing nothing.

[fatlever]

The main trades (PJ and Rozier and Hayward) technically happened with Mitch in charge. So this new front office has yet to really do much of anything in regards to team building.

The Mark trade was their first big attempt.

Mitch was technically general manager during those trades. But Mitch was under directions from the new owners and they brought in some outside consultants to facilitate some of those trades. So I'm not really sure how involved Mitch was in those trades. I think all of that was pushed from the new owners.

[yosemiteben]

Feels like the FO should get some pretty significant credit for finding Diabate and then locking him down for uber cheap.

[SWedd523]

when finding Moussa Diabate deserves "significant" credit then you must have "significantly" low standards

[yosemiteben]

when finding Moussa Diabate deserves "significant" credit then you must have "significantly" low standards

We found a viable backup center and signed him to a 3 year deal for barely above league minimum.

That's just objectively good work.

But sure let's workshop "significant" so we make sure we're not being too positive.

[SWedd523]

could've easily said "deserves credit"

I wasn't the one who added the operative term

[JDR720]

The main trades (PJ and Rozier and Hayward) technically happened with Mitch in charge. So this new front office has yet to really do much of anything in regards to team building.

The Mark trade was their first big attempt.

Mitch was technically general manager during those trades. But Mitch was under directions from the new owners and they brought in some outside consultants to facilitate some of those trades. So I'm not really sure how involved Mitch was in those trades. I think all of that was pushed from the new owners.

The new owners may've wanted the trades and the consultants may've helped find them, but Mitch still had to put them together. So my point still stands, this new FO hasn't really done anything of significance.

Their big move would've been trading Mark, but the Lakers pulled out and we got a pie in our faces.

Finding Diabate was nice... but he's a backup PF/C and ideally the useful 3rd stringer (and he is this unless we trade Mark again or Nurk). This can't be your big achievement if you want to be a serious team.

[yosemiteben]

could've easily said "deserves credit"

I wasn't the one who added the operative term

Yes, you just parachuted into the discussion to criticize me for being too complimentary of the FO.

Glad to have the adjective police on the case!