Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Horst Given Extension

[ReasonablySober]

Doc Rivers called a meeting with Giannis and Dame to have an "open forum" regarding the offense. The word "dire" was used. This was from a Chris Hayes report, so we know who's leaking it.

In the link is a good Devine article detailing what we've all been talking about for a while. This Doc offense is putrid.

[randy84]

Doc Rivers called a meeting with Giannis and Dame to have an "open forum" regarding the offense. The word "dire" was used. This was from a Chris Hayes report, so we know who's leaking it.

In the link is a good Devine article detailing what we've all been talking about for a while. This Doc offense is putrid.

That article sums up the Bucks offense. Giannis can't set a screen, guys standing around, and Dame jacking up off balance shots over two defenders.

[fansinceforever]

I might be wrong but I don't see a team that just isn't locked in because it's the regular season.

There's loads of guys with a ton to prove and plenty to earn all over this roster. If they're not motivated to play the regular season, that's a massive issue.

I see a team that largely doesn't have it due to coaching and lack of versatility, talent and skill.

[JonHeist]

I might be wrong but I don't see a team that just isn't locked in because it's the regular season.

There's loads of guys with a ton to prove and plenty to earn all over this roster. If they're not motivated to play the regular season, that's a massive issue.

I see a team that largely doesn't have it due to coaching and lack of versatility, talent and skill.

giannis and dame have both definitely not been treating every game like a must win

brook too, that's the majority of our starting lineup

kuzma's best trait has been playing like his ass is on fire, which we really need, even if he's dumb and a spaz

[emunney]

I'd argue that we looked like a very different (better) team against the Pacers than we did in the regular season under Doc. That doesn't give me any additional confidence going into this offseason, though.

The only thing that gives me confidence is that the last time Giannis was healthy in the playoffs, he went for 34-15-7 against the #2 defense in the league and took them to 7 games. Of course, that was 3 years ago.

[fansinceforever]

I might be wrong but I don't see a team that just isn't locked in because it's the regular season.

There's loads of guys with a ton to prove and plenty to earn all over this roster. If they're not motivated to play the regular season, that's a massive issue.

I see a team that largely doesn't have it due to coaching and lack of versatility, talent and skill.

giannis and dame have both definitely not been treating every game like a must win

brook too, that's the majority of our starting lineup

kuzma's best trait has been playing like his ass is on fire, which we really need, even if he's dumb and a spaz

Eh, I don't really see a lack of effort out of Brook, Dame or Kuzma. I think we're just seeing what they're capable of. Giannis might be throttling down a little bit with the playoffs approaching.

I mean, we're tied for 6th. What's worse? Them not being capable or them being completely out to lunch while the season slips away?

[JonHeist]

I might be wrong but I don't see a team that just isn't locked in because it's the regular season.

There's loads of guys with a ton to prove and plenty to earn all over this roster. If they're not motivated to play the regular season, that's a massive issue.

I see a team that largely doesn't have it due to coaching and lack of versatility, talent and skill.

giannis and dame have both definitely not been treating every game like a must win

brook too, that's the majority of our starting lineup

kuzma's best trait has been playing like his ass is on fire, which we really need, even if he's dumb and a spaz

Eh, I don't really see a lack of effort out of Brook, Dame or Kuzma. I think we're just seeing what they're capable of. Giannis might be throttling down a little bit with the playoffs approaching.

I mean, we're tied for 6th. What's worse? Them not being capable or them being completely out to lunch while the season slips away?

I was saying kuzma's effort is great

>I think we're just seeing what they're capable of.

right, Giannis and Brook and Dame are all too old/worried about injuries to go all out in the regular season, I wouldn't say it's cuz they don't care

[msiris]

Doc Rivers called a meeting with Giannis and Dame to have an "open forum" regarding the offense. The word "dire" was used. This was from a Chris Hayes report, so we know who's leaking it.

In the link is a good Devine article detailing what we've all been talking about for a while. This Doc offense is putrid.

They probably told him they more shots and more iso ball.

[msiris]

I might be wrong but I don't see a team that just isn't locked in because it's the regular season.

There's loads of guys with a ton to prove and plenty to earn all over this roster. If they're not motivated to play the regular season, that's a massive issue.

I see a team that largely doesn't have it due to coaching and lack of versatility, talent and skill.

giannis and dame have both definitely not been treating every game like a must win

brook too, that's the majority of our starting lineup

kuzma's best trait has been playing like his ass is on fire, which we really need, even if he's dumb and a spaz

But Dame and Giannis are spazs as well.

[nagawicka]

You have zeroed in on the main problem. The demise of KM. Without him, the Bucks are a slightly above average team, as their record indicates.

Bull. He didn't help us this season. We weren't a 50 win team with him and we are not one without him. Yes it's disappointing that all we could get was Kuzma but blame our gm for that move.

Whether it's because of trade or decline, the Khris that we needed for this team has not been available to it. The point isn't that the trade was bad. That's a separate discussion. The point is that, agnostic to reason, Khris, or, more specifically, the version of Khris this team needs, is gone without a replacement. And THAT's the main problem. And as you note, it was a problem before he was traded, at least in the regular season.

So we traded *not-having-Khris* for Kuzma. From nothing to something is a massive addition. The 'we're-a-championship-team-b/c-Khris-is-injured' never really worked at all.

[nagawicka]

Prime Dame + Stotts' heavy pick & roll scheme was an automatic Top-5 offense for years and he's only been a Top-10 usage guy three times in his whole career. What are we doing here?

Did prime Dame struggle to get the ball up the court versus simple man to man full court pressure? Dame is 34, he's not the same guy. All he is now is a foul grifting scoring guard. He's an overhyped 6th man. Non existent defender. A short SG.

Seems the crystal clear incontrovertible consensus is that Dame and Giannis should never see the court at the same time and both should always ALWAYS always be paired with a real point guard and neither ever be allowed to run point. YMM(not)V.

[rilamann]

Team did fine the year Khris missed all but 30-games (58-24, best record in the league). Look at that roster around Jrue/Giannis/Brook. Absolutely nothing special but somehow still looked like a top-tier contender. People can keep blaming the “talent” but I don’t see that big of a talent deficiency at all. It really shouldn’t be this hard to build around a Top-3 and Top 20-25 player.

I agree.

On paper, this Bucks team should be competing with the Knicks for the the #3 seed and at worst the Bucks should comfortably grab the #4 seed. Make it to at least the 2nd round of the playoffs and be legit threat to Boston and Cleveland.

Instead they are in a position where they will have to run Giannis into the ground the final month of the regular season if they want to avoid the #6 seed.

That is criminal when you have a top 3 MVP candidate and then another 75th anniversary player as his sidekick. And it's not like they are surrounded by a bunch of scrubs. I am not the biggest Dame fan, but the guy is an elite offensive talent. The Bucks will never be a great defensive team team with Dame, but how the hell is our offense this putrid when you start with Giannis & Dame.

What also sucks is on paper we are a match-up nightmare for Boston, but it probably won't matter with Doc Rivers running the show.

[ReasonablySober]

Watch on YouTube

[Frank Nova]

Doc Rivers called a meeting with Giannis and Dame to have an "open forum" regarding the offense. The word "dire" was used. This was from a Chris Hayes report, so we know who's leaking it.

In the link is a good Devine article detailing what we've all been talking about for a while. This Doc offense is putrid.

What exactly is Doc’s offense? A year and a half into his tenure and it’s still a legit question I’m not sure anyone can definitively answer. Every once in a while there’s some 3 man weave hand off pick plays and you’ll get a nice cutter to the rim but those are few and far in between throughout an entire game. Doc is 1 of the only coaches in recent memory that seems like he has zero success drawing up plays from a timeout, it’s somewhat baffling. My 3rd grade team I coached this past winter were able to run through a motion style offense with multiple screen action and find open players for corner shots and rolls to the basket, it just seems so elementary to accomplish those types of things. I get the feeling “Docs offense” is more reliant on letting his stars do their thing so to speak rather than any sort of schematics. That’s a huge problem, especially when you have the highest scoring duo in the league and you’re 25-1 in games you break 120pts. Being a middling offense and a middle of the pack team overall makes absolutely zero sense and points directly at poor coaching and inconsistencies from “the others”. But 1 of those is not like the other, your role players are expected to have Herculean scoring efforts every night but it seems like it takes that for the Bucks to play a good 48 minutes. I hate Doc lol, always have tho. He stinks and will forever be arguably the most overrated coach in the association.

[rilamann]

With Giannis & Dame.

The Bucks should have an offense where 90% of the teams in the league are saying How the **** are we supposed to stop them?

Imagine if an offense built around Giannis & Dame was a well-coached, well-oiled machine.

[MickeyDavis]

Team did fine the year Khris missed all but 30-games (58-24, best record in the league). Look at that roster around Jrue/Giannis/Brook. Absolutely nothing special but somehow still looked like a top-tier contender. People can keep blaming the “talent” but I don’t see that big of a talent deficiency at all. It really shouldn’t be this hard to build around a Top-3 and Top 20-25 player.

Bobby
Grayson
Carter
Pat
Wes
Hill
Thanasis
Ingles
Crowder
Beauchamp
Nwora

[BigO]

You have zeroed in on the main problem. The demise of KM. Without him, the Bucks are a slightly above average team, as their record indicates.

Don't disagree with this.

But what does this say about our two max superstars that they needed a third all-star to drag this team to 50-wins?

It says our roster is top heavy.You don't have to have a third all star, but if you don't, then your other pieces have to be much higher quality than the Bucks have.

You could win a title with a healthy Khris and having Prince start. You can't win a title with Kuzma as supposedly your third best player and Prince still starting.

You can't blame the two stars for the rest of the roster.

[BigO]

You have zeroed in on the main problem. The demise of KM. Without him, the Bucks are a slightly above average team, as their record indicates.

Bull. He didn't help us this season. We weren't a 50 win team with him and we are not one without him. Yes it's disappointing that all we could get was Kuzma but blame our gm for that move.

I'm not saying KM shouldn't have been moved if the Bucks medical staff said he was cooked, so calm down.

What I said is that, if healthy, he is a bonafide all star, Olympian and champion and the smartest player on the floor. He is/was an elite shotmaker at all levels and made everyone around him better. It's really hard to deny any of this.

The loss of KM was huge. And of course he didn't help this year. He was injured. What are you arguing against?

[BigO]

You have zeroed in on the main problem. The demise of KM. Without him, the Bucks are a slightly above average team, as their record indicates.

Bull. He didn't help us this season. We weren't a 50 win team with him and we are not one without him. Yes it's disappointing that all we could get was Kuzma but blame our gm for that move.

Whether it's because of trade or decline, the Khris that we needed for this team has not been available to it. The point isn't that the trade was bad. That's a separate discussion. The point is that, agnostic to reason, Khris, or, more specifically, the version of Khris this team needs, is gone without a replacement. And THAT's the main problem. And as you note, it was a problem before he was traded, at least in the regular season.

Thanks for saying it better than I did.

[ShootingtheJ]

The Bucks have been a top 4 team this year with Giannis on and Dame off.

Using this logic we're a top 6 team with Dame and Giannis together.

Unfortunately a bottom 5 team with Dame but no Giannis