PG: Thibs B Gone

[mpharris36]

thibs won't even be fired. hell be reassigned to the front office.

thats fine. its just part of the process.

Team doesn't perform up to standards - coach goes
Team doesn't perform up to standards - player changes
Team doesn't perform up to stands - new front office

its just the cycle of life.

[TheGreenArrow]

and don't get it wrong, these 2 bad losses don't really mean much. and if they play the double big lineup a lot they should be a better team and it'll fix a few of the multiple issues. but they still aint gonna win it all. the absolute best thing that happened to the knicks this season is that the celtics just got sold to an investment group that may cut payroll and may have to let some guys go. that's what we have to hope for. and that the notoriously cheap okc thunder owner also forces them to let some guys go as their contracts come up for raises. that's the hope we have.

We don’t need to worry about any western conference teams at all because that implies we are going to the finals and in that scenario I’ll take whatever odds we get because our team must be very good to get that far. The Thunder haven’t even been out of the 2nd round yet so pump the brakes on them. Probably should be more worried about the Lakers after they build around Luka

if things don’t turn around soon maybe it’s time to make a last gasp gamble on a guy like Zion or Lamelo or someone talented who is on a struggling team. Nobody on the roster is untouchable. I’m actually being serious

You’d trade Brunson???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[robillionaire]

A lot of people were killing him for playing Elfrid Payton all year for him to finally pull the plug on him completely after game 1 of the playoffs...this man doesn't adjust. He had all season to see what most of us saw...kept on spewing the same "net rating" nonsense he does now to justify his rotations.

People complaining about Thibs is nothing new...he a floor raising coach. He's a more prepared less nutty version of Mark Jackson.

We didn’t win a single game after he quit starting Payton. He started game 2 and we won. 0-3 and 3 blowouts after that. Rose played badly because he wasn’t coming in fresh off the bench anymore. Bringing him in as a 6th man was objectively better. This is an example of fans getting their way and it didn’t work. Same would be true with running Dadiet out there

He started game 2 which we won and was a minus 7 while he played 5 minutes wtf are we talking about here rob.

Yeah it wasn’t because of his play it was because it allowed Rose, who was old, was able to come in with energy off the bench and not have to play big minutes against starters the whole game . I’m not saying Payton was a good player. If we could have just kept getting 15 mins out of him Rose could have stayed in his role and played fresher instead of trying to chase around trae so much. It’s funny because this is almost the same thing as we are dealing with now, Layne and Shamet suck but if we don’t play them for 15 mpg the starters get tired. This was the same thing, he was keeping rose from running down

[spree2kawhi]

thibs won't even be fired. hell be reassigned to the front office.

I think he’ll remain.

[mpharris36]

There is a ton of nepotism on the team and as long as we are winning it’s cool but if we start to struggle things are going to look a lot worse. Leon, Thibs in the inner circle, the CAA players, the Brunson family& friends. Even Payne and Shamet were Mikal’s old Suns buddies and I swear that’s why they’re brought in and playing. And why he’s advocating for them to play more even though they both suck.

Hopefully if things do blow up they will bring in an outsider as head coach who will put boots to asses but it will in all likelihood be Rick

I mean thats how we got Brunson (the best thing to happen to this franchise since Ewing)...so can't really complain too much about Nepotism. We knew what we were dealing with when we brought in CAA to run the franchise.

I agree with you on that, and things have been pretty good. So yeah I’m still ok with it. Beats what we were before by a long shot. I’m just saying if things turn south it might get more glaring

But yeah good to look at things in perspective, for whatever valid gripes about the team, coach, players, FO, still an improvement from where we were in 2020 and gotta put trust in them to figure it out

Put everything in perspective...years about bringing in old man Steve Francis and Tracy McGrady...trade for Bargnani...Shandon Anderson and Othella Harrington, and Chris Duhon as our starting PG. ALso with no draft picks.

And we are scoffing at perennially top 5 team that is a consistently getting 50 wins on the reg.

The moves certainly fast tracked some of our stuff but ihart and the CBA caused a lot of this.

They are still a really good team. They certainly don't "suck" like some of saying.

[Gravy]

guys can't shoot...thibs
guys can't defend...thibs
guys can't dribble without tripping over their own feet....thibs

this is not analysis. lol

People don’t even talk ball anymore it’s just blaming Thibs for everything

This place might be more unhinged now than the Frank years and thats saying a lot.

[robillionaire]

and don't get it wrong, these 2 bad losses don't really mean much. and if they play the double big lineup a lot they should be a better team and it'll fix a few of the multiple issues. but they still aint gonna win it all. the absolute best thing that happened to the knicks this season is that the celtics just got sold to an investment group that may cut payroll and may have to let some guys go. that's what we have to hope for. and that the notoriously cheap okc thunder owner also forces them to let some guys go as their contracts come up for raises. that's the hope we have.

We don’t need to worry about any western conference teams at all because that implies we are going to the finals and in that scenario I’ll take whatever odds we get because our team must be very good to get that far. The Thunder haven’t even been out of the 2nd round yet so pump the brakes on them. Probably should be more worried about the Lakers after they build around Luka

if things don’t turn around soon maybe it’s time to make a last gasp gamble on a guy like Zion or Lamelo or someone talented who is on a struggling team. Nobody on the roster is untouchable. I’m actually being serious

You’d trade Brunson???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He would be the last guy I’d want to move but if someone like Jokic or Giannis or Wemby(Mavs traded Luka don’t laugh) or someone of that caliber came available you’d have to consider it in that case

[robillionaire]

I mean thats how we got Brunson (the best thing to happen to this franchise since Ewing)...so can't really complain too much about Nepotism. We knew what we were dealing with when we brought in CAA to run the franchise.

I agree with you on that, and things have been pretty good. So yeah I’m still ok with it. Beats what we were before by a long shot. I’m just saying if things turn south it might get more glaring

But yeah good to look at things in perspective, for whatever valid gripes about the team, coach, players, FO, still an improvement from where we were in 2020 and gotta put trust in them to figure it out

Put everything in perspective...years about bringing in old man Steve Francis and Tracy McGrady...trade for Bargnani...Shandon Anderson and Othella Harrington, and Chris Duhon as our starting PG. ALso with no draft picks.

And we are scoffing at perennially top 5 team that is a consistently getting 50 wins on the reg.

The moves certainly fast tracked some of our stuff but ihart and the CBA caused a lot of this.

They are still a really good team. They certainly don't "suck" like some of saying.

When I feel bad I try to think of the mavericks

[Context]

thank you. whole board clamoring for this poor man's jimmer fredette ass motherf*cker every game like that's the answer.

Folks acting like we are hiding MVP year steve Nash at the end of the bench

I actually don’t disagree that he could play some because our bench is that bad. I think I’d throw him out there over Payne or Shamet at this point. But if we are hoping for a rookie who has never played meaningful minutes in an nba game to be the difference maker from getting blown out by 20 by the hornets to being a championship team idk maybe the roster has a big problem somewhere

I think that you're missing the point. Nobody is claiming that guys like Kolek or Pacome are going to come in and save the day. All of the top teams in the NBA utilize their bench much more than we do. When you have a guy like Mikal who has never missed a game in his entire career complaining about how the coach is burning out the starters and not utilizing the bench enough, that's an issue. You can't expect positive development and growth out of the young guys, if you only let them play 2 minutes of meaningless garbage time once every 10 games. Kolek has amazing court vision and is a floor general. That's exactly what we're missing with Jalen out. Give the guy some burn and if he blows then so be it. But his is a Thibs issue plain and simple and it's been his MO his entire career.

simple stuff to me...Not to mention, we know who Hart is and his pedigre of player. Even John Starks said Hart is the closest player that he sees himself in. And what did we see with our own eyes- Hart in conflict with Thibs about plays to run and a firery back and forth on the bench during a game.

Thibs is mentally stuck. From my pov- he will never change. You cant teach an old dog new tricks and Thibs doesnt want to learn any new tricks either

[mpharris36]

We didn’t win a single game after he quit starting Payton. He started game 2 and we won. 0-3 and 3 blowouts after that. Rose played badly because he wasn’t coming in fresh off the bench anymore. Bringing him in as a 6th man was objectively better. This is an example of fans getting their way and it didn’t work. Same would be true with running Dadiet out there

He started game 2 which we won and was a minus 7 while he played 5 minutes wtf are we talking about here rob.

Yeah it wasn’t because of his play it was because it allowed Rose, who was old, was able to come in with energy off the bench and not have to play big minutes against starters the whole game . I’m not saying Payton was a good player. If we could have just kept getting 15 mins out of him Rose could have stayed in his role and played fresher instead of trying to chase around trae so much. It’s funny because this is almost the same thing as we are dealing with now, Layne and Shamet suck but if we don’t play them for 15 mpg the starters get tired. This was the same thing, he was keeping rose from running down

Your reaching a bit...its far easier to split up starters minutes because you can play sit and then come back in to finish halfs. Rose was playing 40 minutes down the stretch because he just had to continue to start Payton.

And the reason we still lost that ATL series is because Randle was horrible (he was injured I get that) but he shot 29% from the field.

Its also the same thing thibs always does he waits to late to adjust. If we played way longer with Payton being benched maybe we could have figured things out without trying to change rotations that late in the season. Same thing here...we have had plenty of games where we could have maybe introduce a young player or two into the bench rotation. But now we basically are stuck with Payne and Shamet and there limitations.

[Jalen Bluntson]

it is bad. because now you don't have any easy avenues to improve. yes, they would have been better off taking a step back this year if they had to. sometimes you have to do things like that because you know it's better for the future.

you do...you can easily move contracts if it gets really bad. KAT an all-star starter is now unmovable? Mikal a two way wing (which are always in high demand) on a good contract unmovable?

come on now.

They aren't going to break it up this offseason...the first thing to go will be the coach since he's seriously struggling to adjust and get the most out of this roster...but this idea we are stuck is comical. They had deadline on some contracts that were coming up...that is where you would get stuck if you didn't act soon and lose guys for nothing.

Ultimately this team will be judged in the playoffs...no one really cares about these losses its just a talking point right now. If they underperform in playoffs thibs will be gone...if they underperform the following year then roster changes will be made. That is just how it works.

Dudes are overreacting. I would’ve expected it from some usual suspects, but not that many. After all, this team is loaded with top of the shelf talent at basically every position and then some. You can always spin it certain ways if you’re falling short and dislike the product or have unrealistic expectations. This is an entirely new team in year 1 though, and it will look a lot better even without too many adjustments.

I had this mentality most of the season but, Thibs just doesn't work for me. Sorry for those who disagree but, not a big fan of his approach. I still felt if we could get everyone healthy ASAP we could be a dangerous team come the playoffs. With all of the bench injuries and no Mitch. Josh knee. KAT knee. OG foot. Now Jalen out for most of the next month. I just feel like pulling the plug on Thibs by nightfall.

I keep trying to go e him a pass but, I really don't like the way he coaches. Oh well. We need to play out the season at a .500 pace to hold the 3 seed I believe. Unless one of the teams behind us goes ham. Some think we would be better falling to 4. I haven't given it any thought yet but, maybe that is not a bad thing. We won't fall beyond 6 even in the worst case scenario so, time will tell.

Trying to get excited for the next bunch of games is gonna be tough.

[G_K_F]

thank you. whole board clamoring for this poor man's jimmer fredette ass motherf*cker every game like that's the answer.

Folks acting like we are hiding MVP year steve Nash at the end of the bench

I actually don’t disagree that he could play some because our bench is that bad. I think I’d throw him out there over Payne or Shamet at this point. But if we are hoping for a rookie who has never played meaningful minutes in an nba game to be the difference maker from getting blown out by 20 by the hornets to being a championship team idk maybe the roster has a big problem somewhere

I think that you're missing the point. Nobody is claiming that guys like Kolek or Pacome are going to come in and save the day. All of the top teams in the NBA utilize their bench much more than we do. When you have a guy like Mikal who has never missed a game in his entire career complaining about how the coach is burning out the starters and not utilizing the bench enough, that's an issue. You can't expect positive development and growth out of the young guys, if you only let them play 2 minutes of meaningless garbage time once every 10 games. Kolek has amazing court vision and is a floor general. That's exactly what we're missing with Jalen out. Give the guy some burn and if he blows then so be it. But his is a Thibs issue plain and simple and it's been his MO his entire career.

They’re not missing the point. They’re trolling or being willfully ignorant. Been going on for many years. Welcome to RealGM.

Anyway, at the end of the day, the roster isn’t good enough. It’s poorly constructed. Towns’ defense has weakened the rest of the team defense on the perimeter. The bench has no scoring options at all. There is a reason why the Wolves traded for Gobert. Towns is not a 2 way player. And he makes some incredibly stupid plays on the court on both ends that makes Randle look like Shane Battier.

Not sure where we go from here. Team has little to no assets or flexibility. Looks like Leon fumbled the bag.

[Enzo954]

Is there a new narrative going around that folks here being critical of Thibs' coaching is something new that's only happening cuz Ran_le is gone?

Wow. Lose a few games and the board goes insane.

More of the Knicks fan base is starting to see what a complete dolt Thibs is.

The other perspective is more fans are starting to see that the roster has major flaws and expecting them to be on the same level as OKC, Boston and the Celtics with some other scheme was unrealistic.

I don't think the roster is as flawed as you're making it out to be. True our bench is a little weak, but our starters are some of the most talented in the league. I just don't think that we have the right coach to play them to their strengths and put them in the right position to more easily win games. Obviously, Brunson is out right now, but we have 2 current All Stars and guys like OG and Mikal aren't too far behind talent wise. There's no reason why we shouldn't be able to handle teams like San Antonio and Charlotte even with Brunson down and it's inexcusable to consistently get blown out by the top contenders in the league.

[3toheadmelo]

guys can't shoot...thibs
guys can't defend...thibs
guys can't dribble without tripping over their own feet....thibs

this is not analysis. lol

People don’t even talk ball anymore it’s just blaming Thibs for everything

This place might be more unhinged now than the Frank years and thats saying a lot.

Yea it’s really bad here now. Sad.

[8516knicks]

We don’t need to worry about any western conference teams at all because that implies we are going to the finals and in that scenario I’ll take whatever odds we get because our team must be very good to get that far. The Thunder haven’t even been out of the 2nd round yet so pump the brakes on them. Probably should be more worried about the Lakers after they build around Luka

if things don’t turn around soon maybe it’s time to make a last gasp gamble on a guy like Zion or Lamelo or someone talented who is on a struggling team. Nobody on the roster is untouchable. I’m actually being serious

You’d trade Brunson???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He would be the last guy I’d want to move but if someone like Jokic or Giannis or Wemby(Mavs traded Luka don’t laugh) or someone of that caliber came available you’d have to consider it in that case

I'd say the odds of that happening are slightly less than Musk giving me his power of attorney.

[MrDollarBills]

thibs won't even be fired. hell be reassigned to the front office.

I pray for this

[G_K_F]

Just adopt the Cavs model.

Improve the team marginally and hire a new coach.

Get some scoring off the bench and bring in another center.

Hire someone that isn’t extremely stubborn even though he’s been to one ECF 15 years ago.

And let’s see what happens.

[robillionaire]

More of the Knicks fan base is starting to see what a complete dolt Thibs is.

The other perspective is more fans are starting to see that the roster has major flaws and expecting them to be on the same level as OKC, Boston and the Celtics with some other scheme was unrealistic.

I don't think the roster is as flawed as you're making it out to be. True our bench is a little weak, but our starters are some of the most talented in the league. I just don't think that we have the right coach to play them to their strengths and put them in the right position to more easily win games. Obviously, Brunson is out right now, but we have 2 current All Stars and guys like OG and Mikal aren't too far behind talent wise. There's no reason why we shouldn't be able to handle teams like San Antonio and Charlotte even with Brunson down and it's inexcusable to consistently get blown out by the top contenders in the league.

“A little weak” on the bench seems like a massive understatement to me. Have you seen these guys? Shamet 0 pts 0 rebounds 0 ast. Shoots 32% on the season. Can not shoot a basketball or play defense. Extreme negative on the court the likes I’ve never seen. Payne is a chucking spazz. Did you see Precious? Can’t even grab a rebound now. No rim protection. 0 IQ. No energy. No awareness. It’s a disaster. Mitch has been good but still an injury risk and restricted which is why he didn’t play.

When I saw the start of the 4th quarter lineup of: Deuce, Shamet, Payne, Hart, Precious

who on this lineup can even create a shot? The hornets blew the doors off us. That’s the worst 5 man lineup in the nba they’d probably go 0-82 if they were starters

[8516knicks]

Folks acting like we are hiding MVP year steve Nash at the end of the bench

I actually don’t disagree that he could play some because our bench is that bad. I think I’d throw him out there over Payne or Shamet at this point. But if we are hoping for a rookie who has never played meaningful minutes in an nba game to be the difference maker from getting blown out by 20 by the hornets to being a championship team idk maybe the roster has a big problem somewhere

I think that you're missing the point. Nobody is claiming that guys like Kolek or Pacome are going to come in and save the day. All of the top teams in the NBA utilize their bench much more than we do. When you have a guy like Mikal who has never missed a game in his entire career complaining about how the coach is burning out the starters and not utilizing the bench enough, that's an issue. You can't expect positive development and growth out of the young guys, if you only let them play 2 minutes of meaningless garbage time once every 10 games. Kolek has amazing court vision and is a floor general. That's exactly what we're missing with Jalen out. Give the guy some burn and if he blows then so be it. But his is a Thibs issue plain and simple and it's been his MO his entire career.

They’re not missing the point. They’re trolling or being willfully ignorant. Been going on for many years. Welcome to RealGM.

Anyway, at the end of the day, the roster isn’t good enough. It’s poorly constructed. Towns’ defense has weakened the rest of the team defense on the perimeter. The bench has no scoring options at all. There is a reason why the Wolves traded for Gobert. Towns is not a 2 way player. And he makes some incredibly stupid plays on the court on both ends that makes Randle look like Shane Battier.

Not sure where we go from here. Team has little to no assets or flexibility. Looks like Leon fumbled the bag.

I'll always give Leon credit for assembling a playoff team after 20 years or so in the wilderness. But we've gone as far as we can go with Thibs. And with a very weak bench. If somehow we could improve the coaching or the bench we might fare surprisingly better. But odds are slim on either for the forseeable future. I do like the stability having Thibs has brought, I just wish we could sub in a "relief" coach now and again.

[robillionaire]

You’d trade Brunson???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He would be the last guy I’d want to move but if someone like Jokic or Giannis or Wemby(Mavs traded Luka don’t laugh) or someone of that caliber came available you’d have to consider it in that case

I'd say the odds of that happening are slightly less than Musk giving me his power of attorney.

It’s low but Lakers probably didn’t think Luka was gonna drop in their lap for free either