PG: Thibs B Gone

[8516knicks]

He would be the last guy I’d want to move but if someone like Jokic or Giannis or Wemby(Mavs traded Luka don’t laugh) or someone of that caliber came available you’d have to consider it in that case

I'd say the odds of that happening are slightly less than Musk giving me his power of attorney.

It’s low but Lakers probably didn’t think Luka was gonna drop in their lap for free either

Common denominator for us getting Brunson and Lakers getting Doncic- Mark Cuban! But they have no stars left to donate. Unless we go KAT for AD???

WELL, WELL, what do you know! -- "Congratulations on a successful trade"

Thoughts on this one?

[RHODEY]

Fortunately, moves will be made after we get bounced in the first round. It’s clear this team will never become championship level. I believe we saw the peak version of what this group could ever become heading into that OKC road game. We will never go beyond that level. You can bring in a different coach and it won’t move the needle as much as you think it will. The roster is structurally flawed. Trade some guys while their values are high and retool around Brunson.

Unfortunately I think Thibs will get another season to derail us because I doubt Leon will pull the plug that fast. He should but out of loyalty and friendship he wont. Its too bad because I don't want to waste another year of our core's prime or our yutes development.

I don’t think this team is structurally flawed at all, more like the opposite, but the coaching badly needs a change.

I think you meant to respond to someone else.

[prophet_of_rage]

guys can't shoot...thibs
guys can't defend...thibs
guys can't dribble without tripping over their own feet....thibs

this is not analysis. lol

People don’t even talk ball anymore it’s just blaming Thibs for everything

Talking ball requires more than one scapegoat.

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[nedleeds]

After all, this team is loaded with top of the shelf talent at basically every position and then some.

[Capn'O]

There is a ton of nepotism on the team and as long as we are winning it’s cool but if we start to struggle things are going to look a lot worse. Leon, Thibs in the inner circle, the CAA players, the Brunson family& friends. Even Payne and Shamet were Mikal’s old Suns buddies and I swear that’s why they’re brought in and playing. And why he’s advocating for them to play more even though they both suck.

Hopefully if things do blow up they will bring in an outsider as head coach who will put boots to asses but it will in all likelihood be Rick

I think Rick is a boogeyman. If they promote him and he fails the finger turns right to the noggin of the front office. There's too much risk in doing that and the bad outcome is a likely one. He will be "considered heavily" though.

What we need is our version of Daignault/Hardy/Mazzula. I worry we'll get somebody like Wright in and they won't really transition from the college game. This new breed of coaches is much more adaptable.

[RHODEY]

Fortunately, moves will be made after we get bounced in the first round. It’s clear this team will never become championship level. I believe we saw the peak version of what this group could ever become heading into that OKC road game. We will never go beyond that level. You can bring in a different coach and it won’t move the needle as much as you think it will. The roster is structurally flawed. Trade some guys while their values are high and retool around Brunson.

Unfortunately I think Thibs will get another season to derail us because I doubt Leon will pull the plug that fast. He should but out of loyalty and friendship he wont. Its too bad because I don't want to waste another year of our core's prime or our yutes development.

That fast how? They have had Thibs here multiple years and he and KAT are a bad mix.

They asked Thibs before the trade and if I remember right he gave his ok on the trade. It’s time to bring in a new coach and if that can’t work then you start moving talent. There is a process to this and it’s always replace the coach first. Especially when the coaching hasn’t been good overall. Unless they think they can upgrade from KAT Thibs has to go.

That fast meaning he's only had this season with this cast of players. I agree he should be pulled after this season but I dont see it happening even if we are a first round out.

As far as him and Kat....Kat's having one of his best seasons under Thibs.....


Thibs biggest flaws as I see it are his like offensive creativity, adaptability, and bench management.Overall he's still a very good coach but the problem is to compete with the very best we need someone even better.

[prophet_of_rage]

Why can't both Thibs and certain players be the problem? Why do we always have to take one side and debate one over the other?

Because it's easier to think there is a quick fix. New York impatience.

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[Enzo954]

The other perspective is more fans are starting to see that the roster has major flaws and expecting them to be on the same level as OKC, Boston and the Celtics with some other scheme was unrealistic.

I don't think the roster is as flawed as you're making it out to be. True our bench is a little weak, but our starters are some of the most talented in the league. I just don't think that we have the right coach to play them to their strengths and put them in the right position to more easily win games. Obviously, Brunson is out right now, but we have 2 current All Stars and guys like OG and Mikal aren't too far behind talent wise. There's no reason why we shouldn't be able to handle teams like San Antonio and Charlotte even with Brunson down and it's inexcusable to consistently get blown out by the top contenders in the league.

“A little weak” on the bench seems like a massive understatement to me. Have you seen these guys? Shamet 0 pts 0 rebounds 0 ast. Shoots 32% on the season. Can not shoot a basketball or play defense. Extreme negative on the court the likes I’ve never seen. Payne is a chucking spazz. Did you see Precious? Can’t even grab a rebound now. No rim protection. 0 IQ. No energy. No awareness. It’s a disaster. Mitch has been good but still an injury risk and restricted which is why he didn’t play.

When I saw the start of the 4th quarter lineup of: Deuce, Shamet, Payne, Hart, Precious

who on this lineup can even create a shot? The hornets blew the doors off us. That’s the worst 5 man lineup in the nba they’d probably go 0-82 if they were starters

Once again, most of the bench sucks because they get no real burn during a real game. That's excluding Shamet of course, and Cam is always hot and cold. Let me tell you something about Precious....that guy played very well for us last season and then he did the same for us this season. He really stepped up for us. Now Mitch comes back a few weeks ago and Thibs treats Precious like he's a stray dog. Every player handles things like that differently. I think Precious feels slightly unwanted and underappreciated given how much he's given us. I think he lost his desire to give his all to this coach.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Folks acting like we are hiding MVP year steve Nash at the end of the bench

I actually don’t disagree that he could play some because our bench is that bad. I think I’d throw him out there over Payne or Shamet at this point. But if we are hoping for a rookie who has never played meaningful minutes in an nba game to be the difference maker from getting blown out by 20 by the hornets to being a championship team idk maybe the roster has a big problem somewhere

I think that you're missing the point. Nobody is claiming that guys like Kolek or Pacome are going to come in and save the day. All of the top teams in the NBA utilize their bench much more than we do. When you have a guy like Mikal who has never missed a game in his entire career complaining about how the coach is burning out the starters and not utilizing the bench enough, that's an issue. You can't expect positive development and growth out of the young guys, if you only let them play 2 minutes of meaningless garbage time once every 10 games. Kolek has amazing court vision and is a floor general. That's exactly what we're missing with Jalen out. Give the guy some burn and if he blows then so be it. But his is a Thibs issue plain and simple and it's been his MO his entire career.

They’re not missing the point. They’re trolling or being willfully ignorant. Been going on for many years. Welcome to RealGM.

Anyway, at the end of the day, the roster isn’t good enough. It’s poorly constructed. Towns’ defense has weakened the rest of the team defense on the perimeter. The bench has no scoring options at all. There is a reason why the Wolves traded for Gobert. Towns is not a 2 way player. And he makes some incredibly stupid plays on the court on both ends that makes Randle look like Shane Battier.

Not sure where we go from here. Team has little to no assets or flexibility. Looks like Leon fumbled the bag.

I don't share the same feeling about the team but. I agree with the bolded 100%

[Guano]

Top 5 team my ass ..we’re probably not going to win 50 games. Let that sink in

the sad truth is the knicks traded all their assets and placed themselves right at the 2nd apron to be basically around the same level of team as last year

Brunson taking a payout for this team is wild.

[Capn'O]

Thibs is a very good coach but the minute they traded for KAT and it was clear he was going to spend a lot of time at center we had an incongruity. Thibs was either gonna adapt and figure it out or do Thibs things and he's doubling down on doing Thibs things. Unless there's some sort of miracle turnaround this marriage is coming to an end.

Up until the start of this season, we've had a team that Thibs could maximize. We no longer do.

[Gravy]

More of the Knicks fan base is starting to see what a complete dolt Thibs is.

The other perspective is more fans are starting to see that the roster has major flaws and expecting them to be on the same level as OKC, Boston and the Celtics with some other scheme was unrealistic.

I don't think the roster is as flawed as you're making it out to be. True our bench is a little weak, but our starters are some of the most talented in the league. I just don't think that we have the right coach to play them to their strengths and put them in the right position to more easily win games. Obviously, Brunson is out right now, but we have 2 current All Stars and guys like OG and Mikal aren't too far behind talent wise. There's no reason why we shouldn't be able to handle teams like San Antonio and Charlotte even with Brunson down and it's inexcusable to consistently get blown out by the top contenders in the league.

In the big picture losing to San Antonio and Charlotte in the middle of the season does not matter. Overall I think this is the 4th best team in the league when healthy and we have not played the best teams with Mitch healthy yet.

The bench is a disaster and the biggest reason IMO why they cant compete with the top teams. Its funny seeing Knicks fans yell at Thibs to get Precious out the game because he sucks, get Shamet out, get Payne out, get Hart out etc.. then you realize nobody is left except more minutes for the starters

They just dont have the talent on both sides and depth to compete with OKC and Boston. Kolek minutes and a different KAT scheme are just window dressing, you need more real talent and roster balance.

[Guano]

Well damn looks like I missed a horrible game.

In other news meLo is on to some sht. These things are incredible. Friend I went hiking with had em and she was pushing em like they were crack so I caved. She wasn't lying. They were so damn good. Highly recommended.

I didn’t watch either. I’ve only watched one game since Brunson got hurt. We’re a lottery team without him.

And I tried to tell you about them nerd clusters lol

For most things you're unreliable - but I should have trusted you when it's about candy.

And yeah, it's just hard to care with Brunson out. Teams a mess. The Portland game was fun but whatever the team isn't serious even with Brunson. But I don't see him coming back 100 so this season feels like it's wrapped.

[Capn'O]

If only we had somebody like DaQuan Jeffries who could stand in when our lead guys get injured.



The heavy minutes is a coaching philosophy issue, not talent.

[Capn'O]

Well damn looks like I missed a horrible game.

In other news meLo is on to some sht. These things are incredible. Friend I went hiking with had em and she was pushing em like they were crack so I caved. She wasn't lying. They were so damn good. Highly recommended.

I didn’t watch either. I’ve only watched one game since Brunson got hurt. We’re a lottery team without him.

And I tried to tell you about them nerd clusters lol

For most things you're unreliable - but I should have trusted you when it's about candy.

And yeah, it's just hard to care with Brunson out. Teams a mess. The Portland game was fun but whatever the team isn't serious even with Brunson. But I don't see him coming back 100 so this season feels like it's wrapped.

We need him to ball out in the playoffs so there can be no excuses.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Why can't both Thibs and certain players be the problem? Why do we always have to take one side and debate one over the other?

Because it's easier to think there is a quick fix. New York impatience.

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Most of the people that don't like Thibs ways also agree the bench needs upgrades. Both can be true.

[Gravy]

The other perspective is more fans are starting to see that the roster has major flaws and expecting them to be on the same level as OKC, Boston and the Celtics with some other scheme was unrealistic.

I don't think the roster is as flawed as you're making it out to be. True our bench is a little weak, but our starters are some of the most talented in the league. I just don't think that we have the right coach to play them to their strengths and put them in the right position to more easily win games. Obviously, Brunson is out right now, but we have 2 current All Stars and guys like OG and Mikal aren't too far behind talent wise. There's no reason why we shouldn't be able to handle teams like San Antonio and Charlotte even with Brunson down and it's inexcusable to consistently get blown out by the top contenders in the league.

“A little weak” on the bench seems like a massive understatement to me. Have you seen these guys? Shamet 0 pts 0 rebounds 0 ast. Shoots 32% on the season. Can not shoot a basketball or play defense. Extreme negative on the court the likes I’ve never seen. Payne is a chucking spazz. Did you see Precious? Can’t even grab a rebound now. No rim protection. 0 IQ. No energy. No awareness. It’s a disaster. Mitch has been good but still an injury risk and restricted which is why he didn’t play.

When I saw the start of the 4th quarter lineup of: Deuce, Shamet, Payne, Hart, Precious

who on this lineup can even create a shot? The hornets blew the doors off us. That’s the worst 5 man lineup in the nba they’d probably go 0-82 if they were starters

I dont think we are ever going to convince them that these guys suck until they are playing in Europe in 2-3 years.

The next coach is "gon' get Shamet and Payne right"

[prophet_of_rage]

A lot of people were killing him for playing Elfrid Payton all year for him to finally pull the plug on him completely after game 1 of the playoffs...this man doesn't adjust. He had all season to see what most of us saw...kept on spewing the same "net rating" nonsense he does now to justify his rotations.

People complaining about Thibs is nothing new...he a floor raising coach. He's a more prepared less nutty version of Mark Jackson.

And we lost badly after that ptoving Payton wasn't exclusively the problem. And that's the thing. It isn't a single issue.

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[Guano]

I didn’t watch either. I’ve only watched one game since Brunson got hurt. We’re a lottery team without him.

And I tried to tell you about them nerd clusters lol

For most things you're unreliable - but I should have trusted you when it's about candy.

And yeah, it's just hard to care with Brunson out. Teams a mess. The Portland game was fun but whatever the team isn't serious even with Brunson. But I don't see him coming back 100 so this season feels like it's wrapped.

We need him to ball out in the playoffs so there can be no excuses.

He just got out of a walking boot a couple days ago. If his ankle is really messed up he might be incapable of balling out.

[prophet_of_rage]

A lot of people were killing him for playing Elfrid Payton all year for him to finally pull the plug on him completely after game 1 of the playoffs...this man doesn't adjust. He had all season to see what most of us saw...kept on spewing the same "net rating" nonsense he does now to justify his rotations.

People complaining about Thibs is nothing new...he a floor raising coach. He's a more prepared less nutty version of Mark Jackson.

We didn’t win a single game after he quit starting Payton. He started game 2 and we won. 0-3 and 3 blowouts after that. Rose played badly because he wasn’t coming in fresh off the bench anymore. Bringing him in as a 6th man was objectively better. This is an example of fans getting their way and it didn’t work. Same would be true with running Dadiet out there

He started game 2 which we won and was a minus 7 while he played 5 minutes wtf are we talking about here rob.

That replacing him wasn't a magic bullet because Derrick Rose actually couldn't handle a bigger load than he had.

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