2024-2025 Regular Season Game 70: Houston Rockets (44-25) at Orlando Magic (32-37) - 7pm

[ORLMagicGirl15]

Maybe if other players on this team would actually shoot the ball or make open shots, Paolo and Franz won’t feel like they have to take all the shots. They have always been willing passers, but we have no one who can make their shots consistently. The only 2 who can are out for the season.

[KillMonger]

Meanwhile, everyone acknowledges that WCJ has been a mess, KCP has been a mess, CoJo is starting in 2025, AB had been wildly inconsistent, TDS is giving us nothing, Harris doesn’t even shoot anymore, Goga hasn’t been the same, JI is barely playing, and Franz is in a massive offensive slump….

But Paolo. Paolo is the problem since the all-star break….

If his efficiency was what it was for most of his career, I’d be right with you guys but he has seemingly fixed that issue or is on a really long hot-streak. Only time will tell but I’m definitely not blaming the guy putting up 30ppg on 60 TS%.

Those guys are all role players though. Role players have wide variance in their production and impact game to game, even quarter to quarter.

You are also way to focused in on the individual stats for Paolo.

The real question you should be asking is "does the team overall play better or play worse when player X is on the court and when he's off the court?"

And in Paolo's case, for quite literally all three seasons of his NBA career, the answer has been "the team plays worse with him" which should be a much bigger red flag for fans than it is.

And until that ultimately changes, his stats, no matter how much more efficient they become - are ultimately a bit hollow.

Here's Paolo



Here's Franz



Here's Suggs




You also can't really just say "oh well the team around him sucks" as an excuse for Paolo, especially now that Franz has been a high usage player the last two years and the team hasn't sucked at all when he's on the court.

Paolo is a very talented basketball player, but right now he's closer to Zach LaVine in terms of "good stats, low impact" than he is some actual superstar.

i don't think anyone would be high impact with these bots playing with him....especially not at 22 years old

[SloNick Russia]

I was as hard in Paolo as anybody after his return but in March he has been playing great. 30 ppg on 49% and 80% FT is maybe the best he has been in his career. On offense, of course.
Franz is gased lately but still solid on average 20 ppg. KCP is the best he has been all season with 11 ppg and 50-40 %.
On another hand WCJ gives us 8 ppg on 40% , same for AB. We can't get **** 10 ppg from any player on this team regardless starting or of the bench.
We basicly have the same roster as last season, some players just regressed or others injured. 30 ppg lost in Suggs and Moe are just impossible to cover for this squad.

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[KillMonger]

Just for sake of argument, i don't think Franz and Paolo are only to blame for current situation.
Main issue is Weltman who built this mess, than GM, than people who enable and encourage Franz and Paolo to have games with 50% usage rate like it's pick up game, not team sport. That includes coach that can't draw play to save his life.

But in same time you would hope your stars have advanced mind about basketball like Lebron to know that more isn't always better. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be a case.

lebron may not be the best case.....not fair to use one of the goats as a comparison it's unfair

[Knightro]

i don't think anyone would be high impact with these bots playing with him....especially not at 22 years old

Then why is Franz's impact so positive? He's playing with the same role players.

[KillMonger]

i don't think anyone would be high impact with these bots playing with him....especially not at 22 years old

Then why is Franz's impact so positive? He's playing with the same role players.

is it positive though? we're not winning so how positive is it really? franz and paolo isn't the issue here

[Knightro]

i don't think anyone would be high impact with these bots playing with him....especially not at 22 years old

Then why is Franz's impact so positive? He's playing with the same role players.

is it positive though? we're not winning so how positive is it really? franz and paolo isn't the issue here

Franz's net rating for the entire season is +5.0. Paolo's is -3.9.

Even if you want to limit things to just the 14 game post all-star break sample size, Franz's is still +3.4 and Paolo's is only 0.0.

Why would we excuse Paolo's net rating and simply chalk it up to poor roster construction and bad role players around him when Franz has made a hugely positive impact all year playing with the exact same guys?

I really don't care a lot about individual stats. Does the team play better when you're on the court or not?

Paolo's in arguably the best 10-15 game stretch of his entire freaking career from an individual stat standpoint and he's still just a 0.0 break even in terms of how the team is playing when he's on the floor.

Franz has been in a bad offensive slump for 2-3 weeks and the team still plays way better with him out there.

At some point that is going to have to matter more than "OH WELL PAOLO IS SHOOTING GOOD NOT HIS FAULT"

[CarraT]

Then why is Franz's impact so positive? He's playing with the same role players.

is it positive though? we're not winning so how positive is it really? franz and paolo isn't the issue here

Franz's net rating for the entire season is +5.0. Paolo's is -3.9.

Even if you want to limit things to just the 14 game post all-star break sample size, Franz's is still +3.4 and Paolo's is only 0.0.

Why would we excuse Paolo's net rating and simply chalk it up to poor roster construction and bad role players around him when Franz has made a hugely positive impact all year playing with the exact same guys?

I really don't care a lot about individual stats. Does the team play better when you're on the court or not?

Paolo's in arguably the best 10-15 game stretch of his entire freaking career from an individual stat standpoint and he's still just a 0.0 break even in terms of how the team is playing when he's on the floor.

Franz has been in a bad offensive slump for 2-3 weeks and the team still plays way better with him out there.

At some point that is going to have to matter more than "OH WELL PAOLO IS SHOOTING GOOD NOT HIS FAULT"

Isn’t the On Off Statistic heavily influenced by how good your replacement player is (our SF depth is the worst on roster) and also who you play against, the bench unit or the starters? I haven’t watched games since the disastrous trade deadline, but Franz used to play a lot against the opponents bench unit.

[KillMonger]

Then why is Franz's impact so positive? He's playing with the same role players.

is it positive though? we're not winning so how positive is it really? franz and paolo isn't the issue here

Franz's net rating for the entire season is +5.0. Paolo's is -3.9.

Even if you want to limit things to just the 14 game post all-star break sample size, Franz's is still +3.4 and Paolo's is only 0.0.

Why would we excuse Paolo's net rating and simply chalk it up to poor roster construction and bad role players around him when Franz has made a hugely positive impact all year playing with the exact same guys?

I really don't care a lot about individual stats. Does the team play better when you're on the court or not?

Paolo's in arguably the best 10-15 game stretch of his entire freaking career from an individual stat standpoint and he's still just a 0.0 break even in terms of how the team is playing when he's on the floor.

Franz has been in a bad offensive slump for 2-3 weeks and the team still plays way better with him out there.

At some point that is going to have to matter more than "OH WELL PAOLO IS SHOOTING GOOD NOT HIS FAULT"

well it's not his fault....he's one of the two players on the roster that can compete at that level....plus we can clearly see the effect the injury had on him with the way he played before and now when he's finally got his legs back under him.....both these guys are doing what they can with what they have around them and playing in mose's non-system.....pace, space and pass BS.....i don't understand how anyone can blame paolo with those extenuating circumstances.....bottom line we need both of them but if we're keeping it real, i'm going to give paolo some grace because when it mattered most in the playoffs he elevated and honestly that is where i need him to have "impact" so i'm good with him going forward and him with franz and a competent roster can really make some noise.....however both paolo and franz have to shore up the holes in their games, holes that in recent games are becoming a bit more clear in franz's case....either way we only go as far as they take us....for me stats are part of the argument but can't be the whole argument because take last night for instance....one of franz worst games recently but was a +18? i don't think anyone would say franz had a good game last night but the stats say otherwise but what do your eyes tell you?

[Knightro]

for me stats are part of the argument but can't be the whole argument because take last night for instance....one of franz worst games recently but was a +18? i don't think anyone would say franz had a good game last night but the stats say otherwise but what do your eyes tell you?

My eyes (and the stats backed it up) told me Franz had a bad (but not god awful) *offensive* game. But the stats also told me he had his typical very good defensive game. He was the statistically the Magic's most impactful defender last night by a mile with +2.6 net points defensively.

And the game was quite literally lost in the 3 minute stretch Franz sat in the third quarter when the Rockets literally scored on every single possession and outscored the Magic by 11 to extend the lead from 4 to 15.

I get that people sometimes (myself included) get obsessed about points scored combined with true shooting percentage because that is really easy to track, but there's two sides of the floor (and there is also additional stuff that greatly impacts winning like rebounding and how that ties in to 2nd chance points/fastbreak points/etc) and since Suggs got injured, the Magic just hemorrhage points defensively when Franz isn't out there.

[ogmagicfan]

We're beating a dead horse, where's SOUL when you need him

Paolo needed some time to get to form after the oblique injury, he's been a top 10 player offensively since the All Star break. The overreactions looked reactionary in real time and even worse in retrospect.

Paolo needs to improve defensively, but we knew we werent getting a lockdown defender in him when we drafted him. We just need him to become a slightly above average defender. I think he can become that but its equally important to take something off his plate offensively so he can exert more energy defensively. It's exhausting bringing the ball up half the game & a ridiculously high usage. He has been vocal in his desire for a PG, so he's on the same page.

He has shown growth each of his 3 seasons in the league, and is only 22.

Franz is a great, and on the verge of becoming an elite defender, and without Suggs he is our best defender. Our team falls apart badly without him in the game for sure.

[eyriq]

for me stats are part of the argument but can't be the whole argument because take last night for instance....one of franz worst games recently but was a +18? i don't think anyone would say franz had a good game last night but the stats say otherwise but what do your eyes tell you?

My eyes (and the stats backed it up) told me Franz had a bad (but not god awful) *offensive* game. But the stats also told me he had his typical very good defensive game. He was the statistically the Magic's most impactful defender last night by a mile with +2.6 net points defensively.

And the game was quite literally lost in the 3 minute stretch Franz sat in the third quarter when the Rockets literally scored on eveyr single possession and outscored the Magic by 11 to extend the lead from 4 to 15.

I get that people sometimes (myself included) get obsessed about points scored combined with true shooting percentage because that is really easy to track, but there's two sides of the floor (and there is also additional stuff that greatly impacts winning like rebounding and how that ties in to 2nd chance points/fastbreak points/etc) and since Suggs got injured, the Magic just hemorrhage points defensively when Franz isn't out there.

Your anti-Paolo analysis is wrong and has always been wrong. It doesn't control for rotations, age, and competition. Look at net points since he's been back to form. He's leading the team pretty easily in net points.

[Bergmaniac]

Why are people on this board suddenly obsessed with net points?

[meatwad4343]

Same story different day. If Paolo AND Franz don't put up 30 a night each, this team has absolutely no shot at winning. almost zero help on this roster.

[Skybox]

i don't think anyone would be high impact with these bots playing with him....especially not at 22 years old

Then why is Franz's impact so positive? He's playing with the same role players.

is it positive though? we're not winning so how positive is it really? franz and paolo isn't the issue here

So, the ONLY knock on Paolo’s insane numbers is team wins…but Franz is ok?

[eyriq]

Why are people on this board suddenly obsessed with net points?

It's the latest toy I guess

[KillMonger]

Then why is Franz's impact so positive? He's playing with the same role players.

is it positive though? we're not winning so how positive is it really? franz and paolo isn't the issue here

So, the ONLY knock on Paolo’s insane numbers is team wins…but Franz is ok?

I mean........what else is there to talk about?

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[JoshuaPotter]

PRR posted this

Since the All-Star Break:

Magic overall net rating: -2.2 (110.6/112.7)
With Paolo On: +0 (110.1/110.1)
With Paolo Off: -4.6 (108.4/113.0)

No. No stats are allowed that put Paolo or Franz in a positive light. Everything must be doom and gloom.

Also how do you expose a stat that indicates that "someone has to score the ball." HOW DARE YOU!

[JoshuaPotter]

i don't think anyone would be high impact with these bots playing with him....especially not at 22 years old

Then why is Franz's impact so positive? He's playing with the same role players.

Both true and untrue. Nobody on this forum should disagree that Franz is a positive player.

I see it both ways. Both of their numbers are majorly nerfed with 3/4 best offensive player being out. At this point, I feel like I am beating a dead horse.

Franz gets nerfed because his brother is out.

Paolo gets nerfed because his main shooter is out, his main defender is out.

This isn't hard.

Both are positive impact players with Paolo being admittedly behind on defense and IMHO has stopped caring in an effort to score more.

[JoshuaPotter]

Then why is Franz's impact so positive? He's playing with the same role players.

is it positive though? we're not winning so how positive is it really? franz and paolo isn't the issue here

So, the ONLY knock on Paolo’s insane numbers is team wins…but Franz is ok?

Last I checked Franz & Paolo are starting and we still aren't doing great. I will say it one more time to end my 3x in a row.

Mo + Suggs are out. That is or would have been our 3rd and 4th scorers. The rest of the team, and this should be indisputable by now are just not consistent enough. Period.

Since everyone outside of Paolo + Franz is by committee this shouldn't come as a surprise.

Franz did well when Suggs + Mo was healthy. Both are high energy guys.