Masai: "Scottie isn't a shot maker right now but that will grow. You build around him for his winning mentality"

[PushDaRock]

People stating Scottie will get better aren't wrong, he absolutely will, he's 23 and in his 4th year. Where they are wrong, is how much better they think he will get.

Scottie isn't poised for some major breakout, and while it's possible, it isn't likely. What will happen, is that he will steadily get a bit better at things he does, like most high end prospects. But it's a safe bet that he isn't going to be "that" guy.

Really my biggest hope here is that this season is also an outlier in terms of his 3 point shot negatively 26.5% vs career 30% as much as last season was an outlier positively 34.1%.

Sadly i'll also concede that when Siakam (around new years) got traded his percentages just plummeted and actually hasn't recovered since.

Maybe having BI on the team can get us that Pre Siakam trade Barnes was had last year, but that puts the nail on the coffin as Barnes as a #1 option in any regard.

I'm really just trying to hold out some semblance of hope, even if Barnes isn't the #1 option, or possibly not even a #2 option.

I'm holding out hope that his 3 point shot will rebound next year to 31% which is not that far from his career numbers, but much better than what he's doing now.

His needs to work all summer on his three point shot at this point, even as a pure catch and shoot player.

It's all just hope at this point. The Magic won that draft imo.

What does shooting 31% from 3 really do for him? You think teams will suddenly start chasing him off the line? It's wild how low the expectations have gotten for him while he's going to be paid max money next season.

[Boogie!]

I mean, Charlotte still sucks and they tanked for Wemby. The big problem is that Scottie didn't develop as Masai wanted, and paid him to be, and now there is a regrouping that is necessary. It's not even that big a problem. Scottie is still a really good player that will get better.

I’m not sure how people can say things like this so confidently… what evidence are you basing this on? He’s regressed since last season and arguably hasn’t even made a big improvement since his second season… only difference is he’s been given the ball more and given more freedom to make mistakes. There’s absolutely no guarantee he will get better at all. It’s entirely possible he stays around the same level of production for his career. The guy has been allowed to stat pad on a bad team and hasn’t been great, where’s the evidence that he’ll be better when he has people ahead of him in the pecking order?

I implore the "Scottie will get better" crowd to go look at his breakdown by play-type on NBA.com. He's not even good at the things we're talking about that we hope he can do next year in reduced role. Look at his scoring ranks by play-type:

Post Up: his best season was 46th percentile (rookie year)

Iso: his best season was 46th percentile (rookie year)

Transition: his best season was 40th percentile (rookie year)

pnr ball handler: his best season was 94th percentile. Great! you say. Well, that was his rookie season and it was on extremely low volume. His 2nd best season is this season at 52nd percentile (on actual decent volume)

Cutting: his best season was 84th percentile (last year). Again, on very low volume. Every other season with even moderate volume has been 36th (or below) percentile

3pt shooting: best season was 34%

Screen assists: averages ~1 per36, which would rank around 220th leaguewide on a per minute basis. This is a very low number for a "big"

When he has done something good it's been on very low volume. Any time it's been scaled up it's been below average to bad.

If we are hoping to scale up Barnes role as a "garbage man/hustle" guy he's never even shown he can be consistent in that type of role.

Barnes needs to make massive improvements across the board to become an efficient scorer. The only other solution is to vastly reduce the number of shots he takes and then we're paying the max to a 12/8/6 guy. If he's going to be THAT guy he needs to be an elite rim protector for us to get actual value out of his contract.

I’ve never claimed to be an analytics guy, and make my assessments primarily on watching Guys play, but it’s interesting to see how even stats will back up the things I’ve been saying on a night to night basis in regards to Barnes. You pretty much just clarified everything I’ve said. Now here’s the thing, i would be willing to suggest that there’s nothing to worry about in terms of his overall production if he had skills and physical tools that I’ve seen that would allow him to take the next step, but the concern is that from what I’ve seen his lack of production is entirely related to his limited skills and tools.

[TheRaptor!]

If long term Scottie's scoring took a dip in name of efficiency and being an elite defender it wouldnt be the worst thing. If say, prime Scottie on a contending team averaged 17, 8 rebs, 7 assists and 3 stocks on 50/35/80 and 3 TO's or less and made some all NBA defensive teams that is still a hugely effective player, just not a lead dog in terms of scoring. The problem is, everyone will get caught up in the contract we signed him to and be critical that he is not indeed a 1A type of player and turn on him. Let's not do that if he brings it for us hustle wise and defensively and turns into more or less a Draymond Green with better offence, with maybe slightly worse but still elite defence.

2 months ago you wouldve been crucified for saying that

now its a most likely outcome

LOL @ those who didnt have the foresight back then

[ATLTimekeeper]

You’ve nailed the biggest issue right here, the season we’re having now with Barnes as the lead dog should have happened two seasons ago. I said that Barnes, Siakam and OG couldn’t coexist, I said trading for Poeltl didn’t make sense at the time. Instead our front office made a bunch of half measures and they’ve made another one bringing in Ingram.

They haven’t actually rebuilt around Barnes and just made moves in an effort to retool but not really compliment him.

I mean, Charlotte still sucks and they tanked for Wemby. The big problem is that Scottie didn't develop as Masai wanted, and paid him to be, and now there is a regrouping that is necessary. It's not even that big a problem. Scottie is still a really good player that will get better.

I don’t understand why you're bringing up Charlotte. Since drafting Melo 3rd over all they’ve had the 11th pick, 15th pick, 2nd pick and 6th pick last season. They’re bad because their best player is inefficient, doesn’t play defence, isn’t surrounded by a team that compliments him and their 2nd best player only played 27 games this season.

Playing with Siakam, Fred and OG hid Barnes on offence. We should have made him the focal point of the offence earlier and we would have known what we were dealing with.

Uh... we knew what we were dealing with He came back from rookie year unprepared and had a sophomore slump. Your proposal is that he should have had the keys to the offense right then and there to learn something. We already knew he wasn't good enough to take the keys of an offense.

[TorontoBarneys]

Melo & Scottie might be a good duo, though. One plays offense, the other plays defense.

[WuTang_CMB]

Need more of last night. He was terrific on the re-watch. When he's focused and giving maximum effort, he's pretty hard to stop.

[Basketball_Jones]

Saw highlights and he looked pretty smooth out there. I guess finally learning how to protect the ball and use size against smaller teams like the Warriors.

[Scase]

Need more of last night. He was terrific on the re-watch. When he's focused and giving maximum effort, he's pretty hard to stop.

The coaching staff needs to figure out what enables him to do that, cause it's way too inconsistent and it's not like last night was too different from usual, things were just going in. Mismatches against Jimmy and Podz were good, he was taking it to both of them.

[WuTang_CMB]

Need more of last night. He was terrific on the re-watch. When he's focused and giving maximum effort, he's pretty hard to stop.

The coaching staff needs to figure out what enables him to do that, cause it's way too inconsistent and it's not like last night was too different from usual, things were just going in. Mismatches against Jimmy and Podz were good, he was taking it to both of them.

Maturity, experience. It’s hard to be consistent all the time. But the keys have been given. Next year is year 5. It’s time to push towards excellence and give it your all especially with the team’s hopes of making the playoffs

[Scase]

Need more of last night. He was terrific on the re-watch. When he's focused and giving maximum effort, he's pretty hard to stop.

The coaching staff needs to figure out what enables him to do that, cause it's way too inconsistent and it's not like last night was too different from usual, things were just going in. Mismatches against Jimmy and Podz were good, he was taking it to both of them.

Maturity, experience. It’s hard to be consistent all the time. But the keys have been given. Next year is year 5. It’s time to push towards excellence and give it your all especially with the team’s hopes of making the playoffs

I dont think it's just that though, there's something he's doing different for them to go down, cause his play style is largely the same. Could just be the luck of the draw, but there seems to be consistency with him backing down smaller players, they should be hunting mismatches for him IMO.

[WuTang_CMB]

The coaching staff needs to figure out what enables him to do that, cause it's way too inconsistent and it's not like last night was too different from usual, things were just going in. Mismatches against Jimmy and Podz were good, he was taking it to both of them.

Maturity, experience. It’s hard to be consistent all the time. But the keys have been given. Next year is year 5. It’s time to push towards excellence and give it your all especially with the team’s hopes of making the playoffs

I dont think it's just that though, there's something he's doing different for them to go down, cause his play style is largely the same. Could just be the luck of the draw, but there seems to be consistency with him backing down smaller players, they should be hunting mismatches for him IMO.

When he's got smaller opposing teams, he usually beats up on them. The bigger teams, he tends to struggle and attacks less. He just needs a consistent hard approach every game.

[Scase]

Maturity, experience. It’s hard to be consistent all the time. But the keys have been given. Next year is year 5. It’s time to push towards excellence and give it your all especially with the team’s hopes of making the playoffs

I dont think it's just that though, there's something he's doing different for them to go down, cause his play style is largely the same. Could just be the luck of the draw, but there seems to be consistency with him backing down smaller players, they should be hunting mismatches for him IMO.

When he's got smaller opposing teams, he usually beats up on them. The bigger teams, he tends to struggle and attacks less. He just needs a consistent hard approach every game.

Even the bigger teams will still have mismatches, but maybe for those games he should take more of a facilitator approach. This team has no real #1 offensive option, so probably best for them to focus on one player who has the advantage based on the team. Some games it might be Scottie, or RJ, or BI etc.

[WuTang_CMB]

I dont think it's just that though, there's something he's doing different for them to go down, cause his play style is largely the same. Could just be the luck of the draw, but there seems to be consistency with him backing down smaller players, they should be hunting mismatches for him IMO.

When he's got smaller opposing teams, he usually beats up on them. The bigger teams, he tends to struggle and attacks less. He just needs a consistent hard approach every game.

Even the bigger teams will still have mismatches, but maybe for those games he should take more of a facilitator approach. This team has no real #1 offensive option, so probably best for them to focus on one player who has the advantage based on the team. Some games it might be Scottie, or RJ, or BI etc.

It all comes down to giving maximum effort on each possession and being consistent. It's not just the mismatches. He gets those but in previous games he would for example just launch 3's or not be as aggressive as he should be. Last night he only shot 2 and took it to the rim each possession. It's about his mentality and approach each and every game.

[Scase]

When he's got smaller opposing teams, he usually beats up on them. The bigger teams, he tends to struggle and attacks less. He just needs a consistent hard approach every game.

Even the bigger teams will still have mismatches, but maybe for those games he should take more of a facilitator approach. This team has no real #1 offensive option, so probably best for them to focus on one player who has the advantage based on the team. Some games it might be Scottie, or RJ, or BI etc.

It all comes down to giving maximum effort on each possession and being consistent. It's not just the mismatches. He gets those but in previous games he would for example just launch 3's or not be as aggressive as he should be. Last night he only shot 2 and took it to the rim each possession. It's about his mentality and approach each and every game.

Fair point, they need to just limit him to 1-3 3 pointers a night IMO.

[XTC]

If long term Scottie's scoring took a dip in name of efficiency and being an elite defender it wouldnt be the worst thing. If say, prime Scottie on a contending team averaged 17, 8 rebs, 7 assists and 3 stocks on 50/35/80 and 3 TO's or less and made some all NBA defensive teams that is still a hugely effective player, just not a lead dog in terms of scoring. The problem is, everyone will get caught up in the contract we signed him to and be critical that he is not indeed a 1A type of player and turn on him. Let's not do that if he brings it for us hustle wise and defensively and turns into more or less a Draymond Green with better offence, with maybe slightly worse but still elite defence.

2 months ago you wouldve been crucified for saying that

now its a most likely outcome

LOL @ those who didnt have the foresight back then

I think people are honestly disrespecting Draymond at this point. Draymond is the best generation of his generation. In 2016 he averaged more rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks than Lebron... how many players can honestly say that? Draymond is going to end up being a first ballot hall of famer. Put some respect on his name. Scottie has a far way to go to compare to Draymond. Scottie has to reach Andre Iguodala level first.

[RoteSchroder]

I think people are honestly disrespecting Draymond at this point. Draymond is the best generation of his generation. In 2016 he averaged more rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks than Lebron... how many players can honestly say that? Draymond is going to end up being a first ballot hall of famer. Put some respect on his name. Scottie has a far way to go to compare to Draymond. Scottie has to reach Andre Iguodala level first.

He’s an elite role player, but if Draymond started off in Toronto, he probably never sniffs all-star status or the HoF. There’s just zero chance he gets the same preferential treatment from the refs over here..and he’s like a third tier passer, more of a connector than someone you run your offense through.

He gets lots of assists because he’s a terrible scorer and therefore has to pass the ball a lot. His passing metrics this year are very similar to Josh Harts, including secondary passes, potential assists, etc.

In 2016, Draymond made 65 passes per game and was passed the ball 51 times per game. The only two players who matched this ratio was Rudy Gobert and Thaddeus Young. LBJ was the opposite, passed 50.7 times, received the ball 63.4 times/game. Despite that, LBJ matched or even exceeded Draymond in secondary assists, potential assists, assists TO pass%. The arbitrary stats/thresholds to prove a Draymond’s worth just doesn’t work here.

I would also say that Scottie wouldn’t reach Draymond’s level defensively even if he played with Curry in GSW. Scottie doesn’t have the dirty b-ball mentality and isn’t aggressive enough to commit fouls all the time. He may develop these skills, but I doubt it.

[Merit]

He said some interesting, and positive things.

But he also said this:

“Scottie is the main core of this team. I think you build around him because of the winning mentality, because of the winning instincts he has. Yeah, he’s not completely a shot maker now, that will develop, but I think he’s a championship-contending competitor now. He understands the game well enough where this is the rebound to get, this is the steal to get, sometimes the right pass to make, when he’s not over-ambitious, or maybe playing with younger players, or people with not the calibre of where his mind is going at the time. And he does make mistakes now.

And most of that is not what I wanted from a GM I hope to trust.

I can’t wait for you to be proven wrong.

[720]

He looked dominant

Watch on YouTube

[Los_29]

I think people are honestly disrespecting Draymond at this point. Draymond is the best generation of his generation. In 2016 he averaged more rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks than Lebron... how many players can honestly say that? Draymond is going to end up being a first ballot hall of famer. Put some respect on his name. Scottie has a far way to go to compare to Draymond. Scottie has to reach Andre Iguodala level first.

He’s an elite role player, but if Draymond started off in Toronto, he probably never sniffs all-star status or the HoF. There’s just zero chance he gets the same preferential treatment from the refs over here..and he’s like a third tier passer, more of a connector than someone you run your offense through.

He gets lots of assists because he’s a terrible scorer and therefore has to pass the ball a lot. His passing metrics this year are very similar to Josh Harts, including secondary passes, potential assists, etc.

In 2016, Draymond made 65 passes per game and was passed the ball 51 times per game. The only two players who matched this ratio was Rudy Gobert and Thaddeus Young. LBJ was the opposite, passed 50.7 times, received the ball 63.4 times/game. Despite that, LBJ matched or even exceeded Draymond in secondary assists, potential assists, assists TO pass%. The arbitrary stats/thresholds to prove a Draymond’s worth just doesn’t work here.

I would also say that Scottie wouldn’t reach Draymond’s level defensively even if he played with Curry in GSW. Scottie doesn’t have the dirty b-ball mentality and isn’t aggressive enough to commit fouls all the time. He may develop these skills, but I doubt it.

There are lots of terrible scorers in this league, none of them have put up assist numbers like Draymond. He’s objectively a very good passer and has been his whole career.

[DKB333]

Trading for BI was a clear omission that the front office does not see Barnes as a number one option.