2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 4: Who is the MVP?)

[Mrakar]

Step 1: go basketball-reference.com
Step 2: type in the search bar name of the player, go to players page
Step 3: scroll down to play-by-play section, by default, it is on regular season, at the top the table you see the word play off , click on it and you see playoff on off

Did the step 1, did the step 2, did the step 3 and there is no those numbers out there.

[AleksandarN]

It is part of the argument, it is not enough, these last few pages are of people bitching how Jokic is MVP because Murray and Gordon suck based on on/off.

In the regular season which the bloody mvp is based on. To ignore that is to ignore logic all together

This is the last post I make in this thread becaise it's becoming cumbersome.
SGA is a deserving MVP, and Jokic has no case being 15 games behind, the only claim being thrown around is Jokic on/off.
It is claimed in this thread that the Nuggetd are 64 wins team with Jokic and 17 w/o him based on on/off data.
Historically, Nikola Jokic has absurd on/off in RS and pedstrian on/off in the PO, his on/off in RS is a derivative of rotations by Malone and the terrible bench the team has, namely, the lack of any playmaker other than Jokic or Murray, Jokic team is good enough, if it wasn't, the team wouldn't be better with him off the floor in 39 PO games in 20 and 23 the only 2 years Denver was able to advance in the PO.
Jokic is a great player, he isn't the only great player, others can and should win MVPs while he's playing, this isn't blasphemy.
People who have different MVP than Jokic actually know how to use their brains, contrary to what's claimed in this thread.

On off difference is not because of Jokic’s production from regular to post season as a matter of fact he averages more in the post season. The difference lies in Murray’s production in the post season verses regular season. Jokic has less help in the regular that bares out in not only in the eye test but in stats in general and since this is an mvp award which is based on the regular why is post season even brought up. As a side note I already acknowledged that sga will win the mvp. The problem I have is you stated that jokic is a playoff choker which is not even true and I will call out your intellectually dishonesty when it comes to this. You don’t have to knock jokic to make your case for SGA. I certainly never knocked SGA season to prop Jokic. Be better. As a mod I expected better from you.

[hardenASG13]

In the regular season which the bloody mvp is based on. To ignore that is to ignore logic all together

This is the last post I make in this thread becaise it's becoming cumbersome.
SGA is a deserving MVP, and Jokic has no case being 15 games behind, the only claim being thrown around is Jokic on/off.
It is claimed in this thread that the Nuggetd are 64 wins team with Jokic and 17 w/o him based on on/off data.
Historically, Nikola Jokic has absurd on/off in RS and pedstrian on/off in the PO, his on/off in RS is a derivative of rotations by Malone and the terrible bench the team has, namely, the lack of any playmaker other than Jokic or Murray, Jokic team is good enough, if it wasn't, the team wouldn't be better with him off the floor in 39 PO games in 20 and 23 the only 2 years Denver was able to advance in the PO.
Jokic is a great player, he isn't the only great player, others can and should win MVPs while he's playing, this isn't blasphemy.
People who have different MVP than Jokic actually know how to use their brains, contrary to what's claimed in this thread.

On off difference is not because of Jokic’s production from regular to post season as a matter of fact he averages more in the post season. The difference lies in Murray’s production in the post season verses regular season. Jokic has less help in the regular that bares out in not only in the eye test but in stats in general and since this is an mvp award which is based on the regular why is post season even brought up. As a side note I already acknowledged that sga will win the mvp. The problem I have is you stated that jokic is a playoff choker which is not even true and I will call out your intellectually dishonesty when it comes to this. You don’t have to knock jokic to make your case for SGA. I certainly never knocked SGA season to prop Jokic. Be better. As a mod I expected better from you.

You started a thread last year, during the playoffs, titled "Jokic is NOT him." As someone who attacked anyone who questioned their 23 title or even suggests that Jokic has flaws, I expected better from you. Maybe only you are allowed to say stuff like that, and not others? Maybe you want everyone to conveniently forget?

[AleksandarN]

This is the last post I make in this thread becaise it's becoming cumbersome.
SGA is a deserving MVP, and Jokic has no case being 15 games behind, the only claim being thrown around is Jokic on/off.
It is claimed in this thread that the Nuggetd are 64 wins team with Jokic and 17 w/o him based on on/off data.
Historically, Nikola Jokic has absurd on/off in RS and pedstrian on/off in the PO, his on/off in RS is a derivative of rotations by Malone and the terrible bench the team has, namely, the lack of any playmaker other than Jokic or Murray, Jokic team is good enough, if it wasn't, the team wouldn't be better with him off the floor in 39 PO games in 20 and 23 the only 2 years Denver was able to advance in the PO.
Jokic is a great player, he isn't the only great player, others can and should win MVPs while he's playing, this isn't blasphemy.
People who have different MVP than Jokic actually know how to use their brains, contrary to what's claimed in this thread.

On off difference is not because of Jokic’s production from regular to post season as a matter of fact he averages more in the post season. The difference lies in Murray’s production in the post season verses regular season. Jokic has less help in the regular that bares out in not only in the eye test but in stats in general and since this is an mvp award which is based on the regular why is post season even brought up. As a side note I already acknowledged that sga will win the mvp. The problem I have is you stated that jokic is a playoff choker which is not even true and I will call out your intellectually dishonesty when it comes to this. You don’t have to knock jokic to make your case for SGA. I certainly never knocked SGA season to prop Jokic. Be better. As a mod I expected better from you.

You started a thread last year, during the playoffs, titled "Jokic is NOT him." As someone who attacked anyone who questioned their 23 title or even suggests that Jokic has flaws, I expected better from you. Maybe only you are allowed to say stuff like that, and not others? Maybe you want everyone to conveniently forget?

Link the thread then. I called out jokic because of his play of him not being agressive and too passive the first games of season? That doesn’t make him a terrible playoff choker. I love how you try to bring that thread up everytime like some gotcha moment. Just because jokic is my favourite player he isn’t above criticism. I am no homer. I can criticize a player and not blinded by fandom.

[Special_Puppy]

It is part of the argument, it is not enough, these last few pages are of people bitching how Jokic is MVP because Murray and Gordon suck based on on/off.

In the regular season which the bloody mvp is based on. To ignore that is to ignore logic all together

This is the last post I make in this thread becaise it's becoming cumbersome.
SGA is a deserving MVP, and Jokic has no case being 15 games behind, the only claim being thrown around is Jokic on/off.
It is claimed in this thread that the Nuggetd are 64 wins team with Jokic and 17 w/o him based on on/off data.
Historically, Nikola Jokic has absurd on/off in RS and pedstrian on/off in the PO, his on/off in RS is a derivative of rotations by Malone and the terrible bench the team has, namely, the lack of any playmaker other than Jokic or Murray, Jokic team is good enough, if it wasn't, the team wouldn't be better with him off the floor in 39 PO games in 20 and 23 the only 2 years Denver was able to advance in the PO.
Jokic is a great player, he isn't the only great player, others can and should win MVPs while he's playing, this isn't blasphemy.
People who have different MVP than Jokic actually know how to use their brains, contrary to what's claimed in this thread.

OK if you think Jokic has *NO* case then you are just being negatively polarized into that position by annoying Jokic fans. The case for Jokic>SGA in terms of individual value this year is about as strong (if not stronger!) than the case for SGA>Jokic last year (which a lot of people supported in good faith).

[hardenASG13]

On off difference is not because of Jokic’s production from regular to post season as a matter of fact he averages more in the post season. The difference lies in Murray’s production in the post season verses regular season. Jokic has less help in the regular that bares out in not only in the eye test but in stats in general and since this is an mvp award which is based on the regular why is post season even brought up. As a side note I already acknowledged that sga will win the mvp. The problem I have is you stated that jokic is a playoff choker which is not even true and I will call out your intellectually dishonesty when it comes to this. You don’t have to knock jokic to make your case for SGA. I certainly never knocked SGA season to prop Jokic. Be better. As a mod I expected better from you.

You started a thread last year, during the playoffs, titled "Jokic is NOT him." As someone who attacked anyone who questioned their 23 title or even suggests that Jokic has flaws, I expected better from you. Maybe only you are allowed to say stuff like that, and not others? Maybe you want everyone to conveniently forget?

Link the thread then. I called out jokic because of his play of him not being agressive and too passive the first games of season? That doesn’t make him a terrible playoff choker. I love how you try to bring that thread up everytime like some gotcha moment. Just because jokic is my favourite player he isn’t above criticism. I am no homer. I can criticize a player and not blinded by fandom.

Yet you call out others who criticize his playoff performance (as you are in this case). You don't see the hypocracy there? Guy is 30 and his list of quality playoff wins is very short. I can't recall him taking over a series against an equal or better team once. Nobody is saying he's a "terrible playoff choker." That's you over reacting and putting words in people's mouths. But there are legit questions to his leadership, energy, and aggressiveness scoring and whether it can be relied on to carry a team in competitive series, as a 3 time MVP should be able to do.

[Special_Puppy]

You started a thread last year, during the playoffs, titled "Jokic is NOT him." As someone who attacked anyone who questioned their 23 title or even suggests that Jokic has flaws, I expected better from you. Maybe only you are allowed to say stuff like that, and not others? Maybe you want everyone to conveniently forget?

Link the thread then. I called out jokic because of his play of him not being agressive and too passive the first games of season? That doesn’t make him a terrible playoff choker. I love how you try to bring that thread up everytime like some gotcha moment. Just because jokic is my favourite player he isn’t above criticism. I am no homer. I can criticize a player and not blinded by fandom.

But there are legit questions to his leadership, energy,

Stopped reading here lol. Also IIRC that thread was made when the Nuggets were down 0-2 and Jokic was awesome in the remaining 5 games so of course that would change someone's opinions on Jokic's performance in that particular season

[BigGargamel]

It's not enough that Jokic won't win MVP to some people. Now he's "not a leader". Really getting tired of this board, man. The terrible takes just never stop.

[SpurNani]

It's not enough that Jokic won't win MVP to some people. Now he's "not a leader". Really getting tired of this board, man. The terrible takes just never stop.

Oh suck it up. This comes with the territory of being “the best in the world”. Jokic doesn't receive one iota the criticism and hate of his elite American peers did in their prime, such as LBJ, Kobe, Curry etc. Because Jokic is well liked and foreign.

They crucified a 5th and 6th year player in Lebron, who’s best teammate was probably Mo Williams, for losing to the stacked Celtics. Jokic is apart of the biggest game 7 collapse in NBA history on his home court and nobody says a word.

Jokic wins MVPS and gets swept by the Suns and gentlemen swept by the Warriors in the 2nd round and nobody says a word. A guy who many want to give a 4th MVP to and rush to proclaim him as the best player since Jordan, and you cant stomach his leadership being questioned when going through a rough patch in the season.

[hardenASG13]

It's not enough that Jokic won't win MVP to some people. Now he's "not a leader". Really getting tired of this board, man. The terrible takes just never stop.

Oh suck it up. This comes with the territory of being “the best in the world”. Jokic doesn't receive one iota the criticism and hate of his elite American peers did in their prime, such as LBJ, Kobe, Curry etc. Because Jokic is well liked and foreign.

They crucified a 5th and 6th year player in Lebron, who’s best teammate was probably Mo Williams, for losing to the stacked Celtics. Jokic is apart of the biggest game 7 collapse in NBA history on his home court and nobody says a word.

Jokic wins MVPS and gets swept by the Suns and gentlemen swept by the Warriors in the 2nd round and nobody says a word. A guy who many want to give a 4th MVP to and rush to proclaim him as the best player since Jordan, and you cant stomach his leadership being questioned when going through a rough patch in the season.

Exactly, expectations for him as a 3x MVP are deservedly really high. All time greats don't come out flat for 2 games losing both at home in round 2, to a team with almost no playoff experience. It's fair to question his leadership, having a slow opening game happens. To faceplant in game 2, showing no fight, rightfully warrants questions about leadership for a 3x MVP. Not to mention the disastrous 3rd quarter in game 7 where he passively watched a 20 point lead evaporate, again at home.Teams feed off their superstars, and I question him in this area. He doesn't have the quality playoff wins to make me think otherwise.

[Special_Puppy]

his leadership being questioned when going through a rough patch in the season.

This isn't Remember the Titans. I can't take seriously 95%+ of criticism of that involves intangibles

[Special_Puppy]

Why don’t the Nuggets shoot 60% from 3 every game? Are they stupid?

[canada_dry]

Why don’t the Nuggets shoot 60% from 3 every game? Are they stupid?

The jokic defense league working overtime.

I mean its funny how a 17 win team is performing really well against the #2 seed.

That murray guy really looks sorry huh, boys?

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[Special_Puppy]

Why don’t the Nuggets shoot 60% from 3 every game? Are they stupid?

The jokic defense league working overtime.

I mean its funny how a 17 win team is performing really well against the #2 seed.

That murray guy really looks sorry huh, boys?

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Don’t think I saw you when the Nuggets lost to the G League Trailblazers by 20+ points lol. My basic take on the MVP race has always been that SGA is elevating one of the best supporting casts in the league to ATG levels while Jokic is elevating a very mid supporting cast to 50+ wins

[SpurNani]

Another road win for the 17 win Nuggets without Jokic against a hot playoff team. This one coming against the #2 seeded Rockets who had won 9 straight and are mostly fully healthy.

Jokic has no help, though.

[Special_Puppy]

Another road win for the 17 win Nuggets without Jokic against a hot playoff team. This one coming against the #2 seeded Rockets who had won 9 straight and are mostly fully healthy.

Jokic has no help, though.

Did I see you when the Nuggets lost to the G League Blazers by 20+ points or the Lakers without LePEDs by 10+

[RRR3]

Another road win for the 17 win Nuggets without Jokic against a hot playoff team. This one coming against the #2 seeded Rockets who had won 9 straight and are mostly fully healthy.

Jokic has no help, though.

Worst team in the league without him apparently.

[RRR3]

Another road win for the 17 win Nuggets without Jokic against a hot playoff team. This one coming against the #2 seeded Rockets who had won 9 straight and are mostly fully healthy.

Jokic has no help, though.

Did I see you when the Nuggets lost to the G League Blazers by 20+ points or the Lakers without LePEDs by 10+

edit: all right

[Special_Puppy]

Another road win for the 17 win Nuggets without Jokic against a hot playoff team. This one coming against the #2 seeded Rockets who had won 9 straight and are mostly fully healthy.

Jokic has no help, though.

Did I see you when the Nuggets lost to the G League Blazers by 20+ points or the Lakers without LePEDs by 10+

LePeds lol. Butthurt Fatkic fan.

I’m joking. I absolutely love LeBron lol

[RRR3]

I don't wanna hear this is a 17 win team without him again. They beat both the Warriors and the Rockets on their home courts and both of those teams were on massive winning streaks coming in. I'm not saying they'd make the playoffs without Jokic cuz they wouldn't but 17 wins is a reckless exaggeration. They'd probably be like 34-48 or something, which is obviously bad but 17 win teams are just basically free Ws most of the time.