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Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon

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Re: Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon 

Post#1261 » by Dat2U » Sun Mar 23, 2025 5:05 pm

badinage wrote:Here’s the reality:

Deni Avdija is likely to be, next year or the year after, a Top 20 or Top 25 player in the league.

And: he’s 23.

And: he’s 6-9 and getting stronger.

The emotion, here, is that we had a very young frontcourt player, a two-way player, a fierce competitor, and a guy only just scratching the surface — and we let him go. Did we get something back? Sure. But the whole point of GMing is to acquire promising players, invest in them, and hope that they continue to work and grow and become something good. It’s so hard to get a hit, outside of the top 5. So so hard. And we hit — and decided, nope, let’s do this again with another player.


I did not like the trade. I would not have traded Deni for 2 1sts but I think posts like this assume the book is written on Deni when it's still in development.

I haven't found a single advanced statistical measurement that has Deni in the top 50 of NBA players right now.

That doesn't mean he can't or won't get there but it's not guarantee and keep in mind he's doing this for a team with no playoff aspirations and no one better to give the ball too.

Can you build around Deni as your 2nd or 3rd option in a winning situation or this a case where a guy is simply taking advantage of an opportunity that he wouldnt have gotten in a better situation?
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Re: Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon 

Post#1262 » by TheBlackCzar » Sun Mar 23, 2025 5:28 pm

Dat2U wrote:
badinage wrote:Here’s the reality:

Deni Avdija is likely to be, next year or the year after, a Top 20 or Top 25 player in the league.

And: he’s 23.

And: he’s 6-9 and getting stronger.

The emotion, here, is that we had a very young frontcourt player, a two-way player, a fierce competitor, and a guy only just scratching the surface — and we let him go. Did we get something back? Sure. But the whole point of GMing is to acquire promising players, invest in them, and hope that they continue to work and grow and become something good. It’s so hard to get a hit, outside of the top 5. So so hard. And we hit — and decided, nope, let’s do this again with another player.


I did not like the trade. I would not have traded Deni for 2 1sts but I think posts like this assume the book is written on Deni when it's still in development.

I haven't found a single advanced statistical measurement that has Deni in the top 50 of NBA players right now.

That doesn't mean he can't or won't get there but it's not guarantee and keep in mind he's doing this for a team with no playoff aspirations and no one better to give the ball too.

Can you build around Deni as your 2nd or 3rd option in a winning situation or this a case where a guy is simply taking advantage of an opportunity that he wouldnt have gotten in a better situation?



Ya'll making this too complicated.... After you watch Deni, if you think there aren't at least 50 guys better you are not watching enough other guys play basketball, because nothing about his game says he's going to be one of the best players in the NBA.... You can talk him up, post his good games and it still won't reflect him being remotely in the stratosphere you're trying to place this guy in.....
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Re: Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon 

Post#1263 » by Kanyewest » Sun Mar 23, 2025 6:04 pm

badinage wrote:I don’t think that’s a valid justification of the move.

They could easily have done what they’re doing now, and sit Deni for the last 5 minutes of the third and all of the fourth quarter and sub in Gill, or Martin, or a dude in line at Home Depot.

If you’re committed to tanking, you don’t need to worry that you have good players on your team.


I don't think you are raising Deni's value or helping Deni's improvement as a player by benching him in the 4th quarter throughout the season . It is easier to get away with it now though for the Wizards since they are already eliminated from the playoffs.
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Re: Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon 

Post#1264 » by Kanyewest » Sun Mar 23, 2025 6:13 pm

Deni Avdija in March 2025: 23.7/10.1/5.6 on 70% TS. :o
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Re: Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon 

Post#1265 » by Kanyewest » Sun Mar 23, 2025 6:28 pm

NatP4 wrote:The only part of any rationale that made some sense was an all out tank for Cooper Flagg. They will have at most, a 14% chance at the guy, otherwise, absolutely nothing is changing with the direction of this franchise.



True the tank only gets a 14% chance and a 52% chance in the top 4 is equal among the teams in the bottom 4. However the Wizards do guarantee themselves with a top 5 pick. Assuming the Wizards held onto Deni it is possible that the Wizards would have improved significantly much like the Blazers have who already have 11 wins than last season. Yes, other players on the Blazers improved so Deni isn't solely responsible. However, players on the Wizards improved like Jordan Poole not to mention that Deni may have had a better season in Washington had he not had to made the adjustment of playing in a new system.

If Washington had 11 more wins, Washington would find themselves picking in the 8/9 range (I would think that Portland would be worse than Washington, although Washington probably wouldn't be as good as Portland now) . This would only leave the Wizards with a 6-7 % chance at a top pick and 20-26%.

But yeah, it looks like the Wizards sold on Deni low. Blazers blogs are calling Deni's contract the best in the NBA.
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Re: Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon 

Post#1266 » by TGW » Sun Mar 23, 2025 9:07 pm

One of the best values in the league, and all it cost the Blazers were two pitiful 1sts and a couple of seconds.
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Re: Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon 

Post#1267 » by payitforward » Sun Mar 23, 2025 9:45 pm

Kanyewest wrote:Deni Avdija in March 2025: 23.7/10.1/5.6 on 70% TS. :o

Here we have an excellent example of how to assess a basketball player. Is it complete? No (not that kanyewest is making such a claim). But, it is an actual record of what a guy is actually getting done on the basketball court.

TheBlackCzar wrote:... After you watch Deni, if you think there aren't at least 50 guys better you are not watching enough other guys play basketball, because nothing about his game says he's going to be one of the best players in the NBA.... You can talk him up, post his good games and it still won't reflect him being remotely in the stratosphere you're trying to place this guy in.....

& here we have a perfect example of how NOT to assess a basketball player. It makes no mention at all of what a guy is actually getting done on the basketball court.

This season, Deni is definitely among the top 50 players in the league -- assuming we limit ourselves to guys whose numbers reflect significant court time -- say 1000 or more minutes.

Does that mean he's performing better than, say, Jarrett Allen, Walker Kessler, Josh Hart, Amen Thompson, Jalen Duren, Brandon Clarke, Tari Eason or Gogo Bitadze? Nope. But he's getting a lot more done than a long list of guys who score a ton of points.
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Re: Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon 

Post#1268 » by TGW » Sun Mar 23, 2025 11:04 pm

TheBlackCzar wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
badinage wrote:Here’s the reality:

Deni Avdija is likely to be, next year or the year after, a Top 20 or Top 25 player in the league.

And: he’s 23.

And: he’s 6-9 and getting stronger.

The emotion, here, is that we had a very young frontcourt player, a two-way player, a fierce competitor, and a guy only just scratching the surface — and we let him go. Did we get something back? Sure. But the whole point of GMing is to acquire promising players, invest in them, and hope that they continue to work and grow and become something good. It’s so hard to get a hit, outside of the top 5. So so hard. And we hit — and decided, nope, let’s do this again with another player.


I did not like the trade. I would not have traded Deni for 2 1sts but I think posts like this assume the book is written on Deni when it's still in development.

I haven't found a single advanced statistical measurement that has Deni in the top 50 of NBA players right now.

That doesn't mean he can't or won't get there but it's not guarantee and keep in mind he's doing this for a team with no playoff aspirations and no one better to give the ball too.

Can you build around Deni as your 2nd or 3rd option in a winning situation or this a case where a guy is simply taking advantage of an opportunity that he wouldnt have gotten in a better situation?



Ya'll making this too complicated.... After you watch Deni, if you think there aren't at least 50 guys better you are not watching enough other guys play basketball, because nothing about his game says he's going to be one of the best players in the NBA.... You can talk him up, post his good games and it still won't reflect him being remotely in the stratosphere you're trying to place this guy in.....


Deni is 59th in VORP, 65th in Win Shares and in PER, and 58th in BPM. He is very close to top 50 according to several metrics.

I know this hurts your soul because you've been hating all season, but Deni has proven his haters wrong this year. He's been for all intensive purposes a fantastic player this year.
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Re: Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon 

Post#1269 » by AFM » Sun Mar 23, 2025 11:28 pm

"All intensive purposes" might be my favorite typo, if you can call it that, ever
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Re: Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon 

Post#1270 » by payitforward » Mon Mar 24, 2025 12:57 am

AFM wrote:"All intensive purposes" might be my favorite typo, if you can call it that, ever

Plus it's the 2d time I've seen the malaprop in this forum over the last couple of days.

Obviously, the more usual version is "for all intents and purposes."
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Re: Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon 

Post#1271 » by Kanyewest » Mon Mar 24, 2025 3:17 pm

A bit of hyperbole but Bill Simmons said that Deni Advija is playing like Larry Bird.
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Re: Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon 

Post#1272 » by dckingsfan » Mon Mar 24, 2025 3:20 pm

Well, for all intestinal purposes, Deni's game last night was meh. 17, 11 & 4. I thought he was "feeling" the 3 to much 6 of his 16 shots.

And I will bitvch a bit about Portland, Deni went turbo several times and his teammates didn't run with him. He would have had double the assists (this is just coaching).
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Re: Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon 

Post#1273 » by AFM » Mon Mar 24, 2025 4:06 pm

For all in tents and porpoises he's having a great year
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Re: Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon 

Post#1274 » by payitforward » Mon Mar 24, 2025 9:01 pm

Fur oil in tens and pert chases deni has shown he can finish this or any sentence!
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Re: Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon 

Post#1275 » by badinage » Mon Mar 24, 2025 9:04 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Well, for all intestinal purposes, Deni's game last night was meh. 17, 11 & 4. I thought he was "feeling" the 3 to much 6 of his 16 shots.

And I will bitvch a bit about Portland, Deni went turbo several times and his teammates didn't run with him. He would have had double the assists (this is just coaching).


17-11-4 = meh.

Hilarious.

If that’s an off-game, that’s someone you’d want to build around. (Not saying that that’s a top dog, but a guy to be part of a young core, to invest in and grow with).
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Re: Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon 

Post#1276 » by The Consiglieri » Mon Mar 24, 2025 10:31 pm

Kanyewest wrote:
NatP4 wrote:The only part of any rationale that made some sense was an all out tank for Cooper Flagg. They will have at most, a 14% chance at the guy, otherwise, absolutely nothing is changing with the direction of this franchise.



True the tank only gets a 14% chance and a 52% chance in the top 4 is equal among the teams in the bottom 4. However the Wizards do guarantee themselves with a top 5 pick. Assuming the Wizards held onto Deni it is possible that the Wizards would have improved significantly much like the Blazers have who already have 11 wins than last season. Yes, other players on the Blazers improved so Deni isn't solely responsible. However, players on the Wizards improved like Jordan Poole not to mention that Deni may have had a better season in Washington had he not had to made the adjustment of playing in a new system.

If Washington had 11 more wins, Washington would find themselves picking in the 8/9 range (I would think that Portland would be worse than Washington, although Washington probably wouldn't be as good as Portland now) . This would only leave the Wizards with a 6-7 % chance at a top pick and 20-26%.

But yeah, it looks like the Wizards sold on Deni low. Blazers blogs are calling Deni's contract the best in the NBA.


I have a hard time understanding why people might think the Deni trade was partly motivated by tanking. You can see right here right now:
1.01 Wizards 15-55: 12 games to go
1.02 Jazz: 16-56: 10 games to go
1.03 Hornets: 18-53: 11 games to go
1.04: Pelicans: 19-53: 10 games to go


Just four games separate us from 1.04, instead of 1.01, just 3 games separate us from 1.03, just 1 game separates us from 1.02.

We knew going in a # of teams would be tanking for this years big 3 (now big 4 or 5), and of course for Flagg in particular. that group included all of the above, and the failed tanking efforts of Brooklyn, Toronto, and Portland among others, and as we've seen, the difference between 1.01-1.05 as a scenario and a 1.01-1.08 currently is just four games, just four. While I want the first overal, what I've wanted most since January is a top 4 pick, and as you can see, any small changes, any at all, and us being in the Pelicans or Hornets position was imminently possible, hell 2 overtime losses could have been flipped alone (granted, a shocking 3, and only 3 of our losses out of 55 were actually five point or less losses).

I don't think Deni is the end all be all anything, but was he and his efficiency enough for us to be potentially hunting for our 18th or 19th win right now rather than fifteenth? I can't see why not, and as I referenced last spring, that wonderful cheap deal for Deni would be wasted on us considering we'd be tanking in 2 to 3 of those seasons, maybe all of them.

But yeah, as I always tag it, did we get enough? Not to me, on that contract and doing what he was doing, he was worth far more than an exceptionally late lottery pick, a broken down vet we couldn't flip, a pick five years away and a couple of 2nds. Yeah, I think he was worth assets in '25 or '26, and I'm still pissed we didn't get him, but I'd be more pissed if we kept him and were sitting further down the lottery landscape.
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Re: Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon 

Post#1277 » by closg00 » Mon Mar 24, 2025 10:54 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:
Kanyewest wrote:
NatP4 wrote:The only part of any rationale that made some sense was an all out tank for Cooper Flagg. They will have at most, a 14% chance at the guy, otherwise, absolutely nothing is changing with the direction of this franchise.



True the tank only gets a 14% chance and a 52% chance in the top 4 is equal among the teams in the bottom 4. However the Wizards do guarantee themselves with a top 5 pick. Assuming the Wizards held onto Deni it is possible that the Wizards would have improved significantly much like the Blazers have who already have 11 wins than last season. Yes, other players on the Blazers improved so Deni isn't solely responsible. However, players on the Wizards improved like Jordan Poole not to mention that Deni may have had a better season in Washington had he not had to made the adjustment of playing in a new system.

If Washington had 11 more wins, Washington would find themselves picking in the 8/9 range (I would think that Portland would be worse than Washington, although Washington probably wouldn't be as good as Portland now) . This would only leave the Wizards with a 6-7 % chance at a top pick and 20-26%.

But yeah, it looks like the Wizards sold on Deni low. Blazers blogs are calling Deni's contract the best in the NBA.


I have a hard time understanding why people might think the Deni trade was partly motivated by tanking. You can see right here right now:
1.01 Wizards 15-55: 12 games to go
1.02 Jazz: 16-56: 10 games to go
1.03 Hornets: 18-53: 11 games to go
1.04: Pelicans: 19-53: 10 games to go


Just four games separate us from 1.04, instead of 1.01, just 3 games separate us from 1.03, just 1 game separates us from 1.02.

We knew going in a # of teams would be tanking for this years big 3 (now big 4 or 5), and of course for Flagg in particular. that group included all of the above, and the failed tanking efforts of Brooklyn, Toronto, and Portland among others, and as we've seen, the difference between 1.01-1.05 as a scenario and a 1.01-1.08 currently is just four games, just four. While I want the first overal, what I've wanted most since January is a top 4 pick, and as you can see, any small changes, any at all, and us being in the Pelicans or Hornets position was imminently possible, hell 2 overtime losses could have been flipped alone (granted, a shocking 3, and only 3 of our losses out of 55 were actually five point or less losses).

I don't think Deni is the end all be all anything, but was he and his efficiency enough for us to be potentially hunting for our 18th or 19th win right now rather than fifteenth? I can't see why not, and as I referenced last spring, that wonderful cheap deal for Deni would be wasted on us considering we'd be tanking in 2 to 3 of those seasons, maybe all of them.

But yeah, as I always tag it, did we get enough? Not to me, on that contract and doing what he was doing, he was worth far more than an exceptionally late lottery pick, a broken down vet we couldn't flip, a pick five years away and a couple of 2nds. Yeah, I think he was worth assets in '25 or '26, and I'm still pissed we didn't get him, but I'd be more pissed if we kept him and were sitting further down the lottery landscape.


I have always found this to be absurd and shaded by bias of the most ardent Deni stans, and I believe the trade to be a pretty big mistake.
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Re: Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon 

Post#1278 » by nate33 » Mon Mar 24, 2025 11:26 pm

I think people are failing to understand how the flatter lottery odds change the tanking calculus. It’s easy to say that you want to maximize your odds, but the odds difference between the worst and the 4th worst team is almost completely negligible - definitely not significant enough to give away All-Star caliber players just to gain a few paltry percentage points.

Last year, the 9th worst team picked 1st and the 6th worst team picked 3rd.
The year before, the3rd, 4th, and 5th worst teams picked 1st, 2nd, and 3rd respectively.
The year before, the 2nd, 4th, and 7th worst teams picked 1st, 2nd, and 3rd respectively.

In six years of flattened odds, the worst team has never picked first.
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Re: Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon 

Post#1279 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Mar 24, 2025 11:56 pm

Kanyewest wrote:Deni Avdija in March 2025: 23.7/10.1/5.6 on 70% TS. :o
Way to go, Washington Wizards!

(Actually, I see it as divine intervention for Deni. He and Gafford deserved breakthrough growth they never would have received in D.C.)
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Re: Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon 

Post#1280 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Mar 25, 2025 12:04 am

Kanyewest wrote:A bit of hyperbole but Bill Simmons said that Deni Advija is playing like Larry Bird.
He's right in that he's white, and he's tall.

No

It's blasphemous, but Deni Avdija has put up Larry Bird numbers in March.

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