2024-2025 Regular Season Game 71: Orlando Magic (32-38) Washington Wizards (18-53) - 7pm

[eyriq]

Weltman a going for Poole? Right

1. Archetype we need
2. Michigan ties
3. Possible chemistry with our players

[VFX]

Get it?

Bad roster construction and a "broken system", OR a young team hit with injuries to their best players that is still developing.

You are investing so much energy and angst into a critique of a rebuilding team that hasn't even started their playoff contention phase of the build. Talk to me in 2027 when Paolo is in the first year of his max deal.

Maybe it’s both? One being exacerbated by the other.

Angst? lol.

This team isn’t rebuilding. They absolutely know who they are paying for the foreseeable future. How they surround those assets with the necessary talent is something that should have started this past offseason after the information they had post playoffs.

Choosing the 4-D chess path of not acquiring necessary skillsets by signing KCP as an upgrade to Gary Harris wasn’t addressing anything. The mental gymnastics to justify that decision is what we are discussing.

Acquiring players doesn’t arbitrarily start 6 years into a players contract because you feel like making excuses otherwise. It’s something done sporadically over the course of time based on availability.

[JF5]

No, you are just willfully dense.

Suggs as a SG played spectacularly well. The issue with this team is solved with a competent point guard, which he would have shown at this point as being capable.

You're only looking at this one way, lmao... So if they purposely put Suggs as the starting PG and have Anthony Black running the second unit as the main playmaker. What do you think the Front Office is trying to accomplish with those roster decisions?

Again, I don't care if it worked or not. There is a clear science and objectives that you're ignoring here as well.


”they wanted Paolo and Franz to develop playmaking skills aswell. And look who was the beneficiary of not having a PG during that time.”

Wrong. That’s your quote two posts ago. Regardless of what was “intended” doesn’t matter. Your initial gripe was saying you “didn’t like” the narrative that Paolo wanted a point guard and gave me a Weltman rationale as to why.

So you can't read, clearly ... How do you correlate my quote here saying them having them improve their playmaking skills, to the Magic not needing a PG. Did you not pay attention to my preference of the Magic going after Quickley from the Raptors?

See, you find a quote where you essentially miss the context and attempt to say put that in my post. I have clearly said in multiple post that this team needs a Starting. But you somehow make up the fact that said this. you're absolutely unhinged

I've said this about your post in the past. You don't read thoroughly and just make up quotes or misread them when you get mad. It makes you look ridiculous.

So you are either playing dumb or buy into this idea that Weltmans intentions outweigh the outcomes. I don’t care about the intentions whether that emotionally matters to you or not.

I'm not playing dumb this is young team that is still going through a development process that you want to jump over like its NBA 2K... Also, you just want this team to built so quickly in your specific way that it's pissing you off to no end. You wanted Tyus Jones, and the Magic didn't get him. They didn't do it now you want them to fail or be fired. It's clear as day that's why you're so angry. Nevemind you this team drafted Paolo and Franz in back to back seasons. They're apparently a "terrible Front Office".

I haven’t brought up any of your previous posts in this exchange. You make it seem like you’ve earned some level of respect discussing things here with me. You haven’t. It’s not personal. Your takes vary from Front Office apologist to player contrarian. Can’t say I respect either of those opinions whether it comes from you or not. You let nothing go if someone calls you out. Saying stupid crap like “reading comprehension” in responses doesn’t help your case. It makes your arguments look weak, so I WILL be talking down to you when you respond that way.

Buddy, the reason I'm talking that way is because you are literally misquoting me. I'm telling you one thing straight away and all of a sudden you're telling me this is what I truly meant.

At one point of this convo I'm saying Paolo and Franz need to improve their playmaking skills, AND I'm also saying they need an actual PG. You're telling me I never said that even though I said it in 2 reply post and even had my preference for Immanuel Quickley, which indicates I want an actual PG.

That is absolutely a reading comprehension issue if I'm having to clarify what I've said for the 4th time now.

What is it that you don’t understand?

Are you saying that the roster, that you agree needs an overhaul, isn’t a contribution to poor performances even if injured at various stages? The point guard experiment failed but that has nothing to do with the way the system is run? OK bud.

Well, if the team stays healthy and the continuity, familiarity, and talent composition doesn't get compromised and isn't having to be shuffled every other game. I'm confident this team would've won 45+ games. But obviously should've, would've, could've doesn’t matter in this league.

You say they need a system then think it’s “ridiculous” not having one isn’t a factor. OK.

The master of misquoting and making up quotes! Find me the quote where I said this team "doesn't need a system". Should be a dozy...

You have a hard time differentiating what Weltman says and what the rest of the league says. I understand that from someone that buys everything the FO tells them.

This makes me chuckle... NBA LEAGUE SOURCES had stated the Magic were talking to multiple teams about trades during the most deadline.

You do realize this is independent of the Magic brass/Front Office, right? So independent sources are stating that Weltman is making calls to teams about PGs or certain talent. It's most likely happening

On top of that a quick Google search and also going back to our own Orlando Magic Deadline Trade thread fron a few months ago backs-up this claim too. This isn't fictitious at all.

Windhorst said “nobody hears from Orlando about trades” point blank. Weltman hasn’t made a trade since March 2021. Then WELTMAN SAYS “teams wanted to squeeze us for assets because of our current position”. A position he created himself despite probably lying anyway. We have his track record on trades. It doesn’t matter what he claims. Was Mike Miller caught discussing the weather with him in a heated exchange?

Get it?

This is just more of an editorial at this point rather than facts. If you're frustrated about how the Magic are building the team or just sit on their hands that's fine.

But I'm not going to go for the straight up lie that they weren't trying to trade for a PG during the deadline when there are literally quotes from our own trade deadline thread, independent league sources, and Weltman saying himself that he did call multiple teams but didn't like the deals.

That amount of cognitive dissonance is not it.

[VFX]

TLDR;

JF5 believes everything he’s told by the FO. Suggs experiment was valid in signing KCP. Doesn’t like the take Paolo wanted a point guard and bought into their vision. Believes everyone should remember his takes at all times on the team needing specific players. Don’t refute what they are saying 1 page ago because they’ll claim “reading comprehension” on things they’ve said in the past not related to said quotes. Doesn’t buy espn insiders saying Weltman doesn’t make calls even though he hasn’t made a trade in 4 years…Did I miss anything?

Jeff Fanboi 5?

Maybe I’ll pay attention to your takes now. Just for laughs.

[KillMonger]

Weltman a going for Poole? Right

1. Archetype we need
2. Michigan ties
3. Possible chemistry with our players

The money is not ideal at all..... But at some point we're going to need to sacrifice some defense for offense.... Poole would be the most dynamic offensive guard we've had in quite a while

Sent from my [Sidekick 5G] using RealGM mobile app

[cedric76]

Just basic competent PG play has taken this teams shooting up a level. Simply incomprehensible how it took this long to realise it.

Now imagine if we had a good PG... GM malpractice after Paolo publicly called for it after the playoff loss.

I never really liked this specific narrative... They signed Suggs to a big contract so they hoped he could develop into a PG to certain degree without having to sign one that would get in his way.

Also, they wanted Paolo and Franz to develop playmaking skills aswell. And look who was the beneficiary of not having a PG during that time. It was Franz who took a bigger leap than most here probably imagined.

You don't see this version of Franz with a healthy Paolo and a PG who has the ball in their hands a lot. This is why this season was a success to me. You got a definitive second guy or 1b. who can carry your offense when Paolo is struggling or hurt.

This is what we say about this year not being being about this year. This was a crucial developmental year that has essentially set this team up for the next 7-10 years. It was definitely a win.

And 1, fans r too shortsighted and impatient (and dumb)

[cedric76]

No, you are just willfully dense.

Suggs as a SG played spectacularly well. The issue with this team is solved with a competent point guard, which he would have shown at this point as being capable.

You're only looking at this one way, lmao... So if they purposely put Suggs as the starting PG and have Anthony Black running the second unit as the main playmaker. What do you think the Front Office is trying to accomplish with those roster decisions?

Again, I don't care if it worked or not. There is a clear science and objectives that you're ignoring here as well.


”they wanted Paolo and Franz to develop playmaking skills aswell. And look who was the beneficiary of not having a PG during that time.”

Wrong. That’s your quote two posts ago. Regardless of what was “intended” doesn’t matter. Your initial gripe was saying you “didn’t like” the narrative that Paolo wanted a point guard and gave me a Weltman rationale as to why.

So you can't read, clearly ... How do you correlate my quote here saying them having them improve their playmaking skills, to the Magic not needing a PG. Did you not pay attention to my preference of the Magic going after Quickley from the Raptors?

See, you find a quote where you essentially miss the context and attempt to say put that in my post. I have clearly said in multiple post that this team needs a Starting. But you somehow make up the fact that said this. you're absolutely unhinged

I've said this about your post in the past. You don't read thoroughly and just make up quotes or misread them when you get mad. It makes you look ridiculous.

So you are either playing dumb or buy into this idea that Weltmans intentions outweigh the outcomes. I don’t care about the intentions whether that emotionally matters to you or not.

I'm not playing dumb this is young team that is still going through a development process that you want to jump over like its NBA 2K... Also, you just want this team to built so quickly in your specific way that it's pissing you off to no end. You wanted Tyus Jones, and the Magic didn't get him. They didn't do it now you want them to fail or be fired. It's clear as day that's why you're so angry. Nevemind you this team drafted Paolo and Franz in back to back seasons. They're apparently a "terrible Front Office".

I haven’t brought up any of your previous posts in this exchange. You make it seem like you’ve earned some level of respect discussing things here with me. You haven’t. It’s not personal. Your takes vary from Front Office apologist to player contrarian. Can’t say I respect either of those opinions whether it comes from you or not. You let nothing go if someone calls you out. Saying stupid crap like “reading comprehension” in responses doesn’t help your case. It makes your arguments look weak, so I WILL be talking down to you when you respond that way.

Buddy, the reason I'm talking that way is because you are literally misquoting me. I'm telling you one thing straight away and all of a sudden you're telling me this is what I truly meant.

At one point of this convo I'm saying Paolo and Franz need to improve their playmaking skills, AND I'm also saying they need an actual PG. You're telling me I never said that even though I said it in 2 reply post and even had my preference for Immanuel Quickley, which indicates I want an actual PG.

That is absolutely a reading comprehension issue if I'm having to clarify what I've said for the 4th time now.

What is it that you don’t understand?

Are you saying that the roster, that you agree needs an overhaul, isn’t a contribution to poor performances even if injured at various stages? The point guard experiment failed but that has nothing to do with the way the system is run? OK bud.

Well, if the team stays healthy and the continuity, familiarity, and talent composition doesn't get compromised and isn't having to be shuffled every other game. I'm confident this team would've won 45+ games. But obviously should've, would've, could've doesn’t matter in this league.

You say they need a system then think it’s “ridiculous” not having one isn’t a factor. OK.

The master of misquoting and making up quotes! Find me the quote where I said this team "doesn't need a system". Should be a dozy...

You have a hard time differentiating what Weltman says and what the rest of the league says. I understand that from someone that buys everything the FO tells them.

This makes me chuckle... NBA LEAGUE SOURCES had stated the Magic were talking to multiple teams about trades during the most deadline.

You do realize this is independent of the Magic brass/Front Office, right? So independent sources are stating that Weltman is making calls to teams about PGs or certain talent. It's most likely happening

On top of that a quick Google search and also going back to our own Orlando Magic Deadline Trade thread fron a few months ago backs-up this claim too. This isn't fictitious at all.

Windhorst said “nobody hears from Orlando about trades” point blank. Weltman hasn’t made a trade since March 2021. Then WELTMAN SAYS “teams wanted to squeeze us for assets because of our current position”. A position he created himself despite probably lying anyway. We have his track record on trades. It doesn’t matter what he claims. Was Mike Miller caught discussing the weather with him in a heated exchange?

Get it?

This is just more of an editorial at this point rather than facts. If you're frustrated about how the Magic are building the team or just sit on their hands that's fine.

But I'm not going to go for the straight up lie that they weren't trying to trade for a PG during the deadline when there are literally quotes from our own trade deadline thread, independent league sources, and Weltman saying himself that he did call multiple teams but didn't like the deals.

That amount of cognitive dissonance is not it.

And 1

[pepe1991]

Slight problem with "two point forwards" hypothesis.

Orlando Magic 22,8 APG. ( 30th)
League's average -26-ish APG

Since all star break, things are even worst- 21,8 apg ( dead last)



Highest usage players in nba.



Franz - 4,7 APG
Banchero 4,8 APG

Giannis 6,5 APG
Lamelo 7,2 APG
SGA- 6,3 APG
Luka 8,5 APG
Cade - 9,2 APG
Ja Morant -7,4 APG
Tatum 5,9 APG

Mitchell 4,8 APG
Edwards 4,6 APG

Victor - 3,9 APG.


As you can see, among 12 highest usage players, our "point forwards" are right there with Edwards & Mitchell ( both play with actual PGs) among lowest APG high usage players in nba.

Mitchell has Garland (6,7 APG); Edwards has Conley ( 4,6 APG in 25 mpg), Victor is damn C.


So can see, whole "point forward" thing is complete and utter BS. They are uber-usage mediocre passers/play makers at best who don't make offense better. They just average some mandatory APG due sheer fact they end every third possession on the floor. And due fact "ending possession" also includes passing to shot, majority of that happens between them.


Things go form ugly to flat out sad when you see shot tendencies from usage. Paolo and SGA with similar usage (0,9 in favor of SGA) are within same %FGA taken with usage. 35%.

Problem? Paolo averages 25 ppg on 19,5 FGA & 54,8% TS.
SGA averages 33 ppg on 21,5 FGA and 64,6% TS.

Basically, for just 2 FGA more, on similar usage, due efficiency, SGA gets 8 points more on 9,8% higher efficiency.


Their current level of offense, in way they play offense is waaaaaaaaaay more similar to Lavine & Derozan than fans want to admit.
Like, we give Franz pass for what? 32% usage rate on 55,8% TS. Just because he plays good defense doesn't mean his offense works.
His eFG% is 3,5% below league's average. That's not acceptable.

We will go nowhere with them playing like this. Most of us wanted to get ACTUAL PLAY MAKER to make ACTUAL EVALUATION of them as players when they work within structure of normal team. Instead we got half of a decade of Marklelle Fultz

And now Weltman will be playing darts in dark, taking team over first apron , to second apron, just to hope one PG can actually make Franz- Paolo duo work.
In single winning season with them, team won because of bench and defense. Not really because of them. Often despite Banchero.

But Weltman did this to ourself, but he will get fired eventually and go home with $10M . I understand him. I don't understand fans who want to defend this nonsense. Post all star break, we are top 10 worst nba team.

[Trillen]

Slight problem with "two point forwards" hypothesis.

Orlando Magic 22,8 APG. ( 30th)
League's average -26-ish APG

Since all star break, things are even worst- 21,8 apg ( dead last)



Highest usage players in nba.



Franz - 4,7 APG
Banchero 4,8 APG

Giannis 6,5 APG
Lamelo 7,2 APG
SGA- 6,3 APG
Luka 8,5 APG
Cade - 9,2 APG
Ja Morant -7,4 APG
Tatum 5,9 APG

Mitchell 4,8 APG
Edwards 4,6 APG

Victor - 3,9 APG.


As you can see, among 12 highest usage players, our "point forwards" are right there with Edwards & Mitchell ( both play with actual PGs) among lowest APG high usage players in nba.

Mitchell has Garland (6,7 APG); Edwards has Conley ( 4,6 APG in 25 mpg), Victor is damn C.


So can see, whole "point forward" thing is complete and utter BS. They are uber-usage mediocre passers/play makers at best who don't make offense better. They just average some mandatory APG due sheer fact they end every third possession on the floor. And due fact "ending possession" also includes passing to shot, majority of that happens between them.


Things go form ugly to flat out sad when you see shot tendencies from usage. Paolo and SGA with similar usage (0,9 in favor of SGA) are within same %FGA taken with usage. 35%.

Problem? Paolo averages 25 ppg on 19,5 FGA & 54,8% TS.
SGA averages 33 ppg on 21,5 FGA and 64,6% TS.

Basically, for just 2 FGA more, on similar usage, due efficiency, SGA gets 8 points more on 9,8% higher efficiency.


Their current level of offense, in way they play offense is waaaaaaaaaay more similar to Lavine & Derozan than fans want to admit.
Like, we give Franz pass for what? 32% usage rate on 55,8% TS. Just because he plays good defense doesn't mean his offense works.
His eFG% is 3,5% below league's average. That's not acceptable.

We will go nowhere with them playing like this. Most of us wanted to get ACTUAL PLAY MAKER to make ACTUAL EVALUATION of them as players when they work within structure of normal team. Instead we got half of a decade of Marklelle Fultz

And now Weltman will be playing darts in dark, taking team over first apron , to second apron, just to hope one PG can actually make Franz- Paolo duo work.
In single winning season with them, team won because of bench and defense. Not really because of them. Often despite Banchero.

But Weltman did this to ourself, but he will get fired eventually and go home with $10M . I understand him. I don't understand fans who want to defend this nonsense. Post all star break, we are top 10 worst nba team.

Not that I wouldn't be willing to believe the proposal you're making, but I'd love to see a bit more breakdown of some stats like potential assists among these high usage players and, especially, the rate of conversion on those potential assists among high usage players.

I don't have any analytics, so I'm definitely a casual in this argument but my mind jumps to:

A. We probably clang the hell out a lot of potential assists

or

B. Our point forwards shoot more and pass less because we probably clang the hell out a lot of potential assists

[pepe1991]

Slight problem with "two point forwards" hypothesis.

Orlando Magic 22,8 APG. ( 30th)
League's average -26-ish APG

Since all star break, things are even worst- 21,8 apg ( dead last)



Highest usage players in nba.



Franz - 4,7 APG
Banchero 4,8 APG

Giannis 6,5 APG
Lamelo 7,2 APG
SGA- 6,3 APG
Luka 8,5 APG
Cade - 9,2 APG
Ja Morant -7,4 APG
Tatum 5,9 APG

Mitchell 4,8 APG
Edwards 4,6 APG

Victor - 3,9 APG.


As you can see, among 12 highest usage players, our "point forwards" are right there with Edwards & Mitchell ( both play with actual PGs) among lowest APG high usage players in nba.

Mitchell has Garland (6,7 APG); Edwards has Conley ( 4,6 APG in 25 mpg), Victor is damn C.


So can see, whole "point forward" thing is complete and utter BS. They are uber-usage mediocre passers/play makers at best who don't make offense better. They just average some mandatory APG due sheer fact they end every third possession on the floor. And due fact "ending possession" also includes passing to shot, majority of that happens between them.


Things go form ugly to flat out sad when you see shot tendencies from usage. Paolo and SGA with similar usage (0,9 in favor of SGA) are within same %FGA taken with usage. 35%.

Problem? Paolo averages 25 ppg on 19,5 FGA & 54,8% TS.
SGA averages 33 ppg on 21,5 FGA and 64,6% TS.

Basically, for just 2 FGA more, on similar usage, due efficiency, SGA gets 8 points more on 9,8% higher efficiency.


Their current level of offense, in way they play offense is waaaaaaaaaay more similar to Lavine & Derozan than fans want to admit.
Like, we give Franz pass for what? 32% usage rate on 55,8% TS. Just because he plays good defense doesn't mean his offense works.
His eFG% is 3,5% below league's average. That's not acceptable.

We will go nowhere with them playing like this. Most of us wanted to get ACTUAL PLAY MAKER to make ACTUAL EVALUATION of them as players when they work within structure of normal team. Instead we got half of a decade of Marklelle Fultz

And now Weltman will be playing darts in dark, taking team over first apron , to second apron, just to hope one PG can actually make Franz- Paolo duo work.
In single winning season with them, team won because of bench and defense. Not really because of them. Often despite Banchero.

But Weltman did this to ourself, but he will get fired eventually and go home with $10M . I understand him. I don't understand fans who want to defend this nonsense. Post all star break, we are top 10 worst nba team.

Not that I wouldn't be willing to believe the proposal you're making, but I'd love to see a bit more breakdown of some stats like potential assists among these high usage players and, especially, the rate of conversion on those potential assists among high usage players.

I don't have any analytics, so I'm definitely a casual in this argument but my mind jumps to:

A. We probably clang the hell out a lot of potential assists

or

B. Our point forwards shoot more and pass less because we probably clang the hell out a lot of potential assists

Potential assists are very problematic data to use.

Potential Assist: A pass that leads directly to a possession event (shot, foul, turnover).

And this is why it's so unreliable. You can throw bunch of terrible passes, be main person to blame for bunch of TOs, and still be awarded with potential assist on same play, despite making dumb decision that lead to TO.

For example, in game situation, player holds ball until 2 sec left on the clock, to not hinder his FG% he passes ball to teammate who takes fadaway 35 foot shot. And by metric- that's potential assist. And assist if it goes in somehow.
Potential assists would be way more valuable if we have any insight what actually happened during them. But in reality, we don't even have good insight on actual assists, let alone potential assists. There are plenty of times when nba counts something as "assist" despite fact it's outside assist window ( like, you pass ball to Harden, he takes 5 dribbles and shoot stepback, and sometimes you get assist, sometimes you don't )


That said, numbers:
Paolo- 9,4
Franz 9,3

SGA - 12,2
Giannis - 10,5
Luka -13,6
Cade - 15,4
Morant -12,6
Tatum - 11,4
Ball - 12,8

Mitchell - 8,8
Edwards -8,6

[Skybox]

Weltman a going for Poole? Right

1. Archetype we need
2. Michigan ties
3. Possible chemistry with our players

The money is not ideal at all..... But at some point we're going to need to sacrifice some defense for offense.... Poole would be the most dynamic offensive guard we've had in quite a while

Sent from my [Sidekick 5G] using RealGM mobile app

And, most importantly, my desire to trade for him 3 years ago, before he went bonkers his first year in WAS, will be hailed as great wisdom and I will once again have a flawless player analysis track record

I can remove my scarlet letter “P”

[Skybox]

Now imagine if we had a good PG... GM malpractice after Paolo publicly called for it after the playoff loss.

I never really liked this specific narrative... They signed Suggs to a big contract so they hoped he could develop into a PG to certain degree without having to sign one that would get in his way.

Also, they wanted Paolo and Franz to develop playmaking skills aswell. And look who was the beneficiary of not having a PG during that time. It was Franz who took a bigger leap than most here probably imagined.

You don't see this version of Franz with a healthy Paolo and a PG who has the ball in their hands a lot. This is why this season was a success to me. You got a definitive second guy or 1b. who can carry your offense when Paolo is struggling or hurt.

This is what we say about this year not being being about this year. This was a crucial developmental year that has essentially set this team up for the next 7-10 years. It was definitely a win.

And 1, fans r too shortsighted and impatient (and dumb)

I finally agree with you on something…there are definitely some shortsighted dumb fans around

[Skybox]

[quote="JF5"]

This makes me chuckle... NBA LEAGUE SOURCES had stated the Magic were talking to multiple teams about trades during the most deadline.

You do realize this is independent of the Magic brass/Front Office, right? So independent sources are stating that Weltman is making calls to teams about PGs or certain talent. It's most likely happening

On top of that a quick Google search and also going back to our own Orlando Magic Deadline Trade thread fron a few months ago backs-up this claim too. This isn't fictitious at all.

[quote="VFX"]
Windhorst said “nobody hears from Orlando about trades” point blank. Weltman hasn’t made a trade since March 2021. Then WELTMAN SAYS “teams wanted to squeeze us for assets because of our current position”. A position he created himself despite probably lying anyway. We have his track record on trades. It doesn’t matter what he claims. Was Mike Miller caught discussing the weather with him in a heated exchange?


But I'm not going to go for the straight up lie that they weren't trying to trade for a PG during the deadline when there are literally quotes from our own trade deadline thread, independent league sources, and Weltman saying himself that he did call multiple teams but didn't like the deals.



If you think the above is an acceptable explanation for not doing his job…

“I DID make calls but wasn’t able to get a deal done for any of the half dozen, clearly available, suitable combo guard options out there - because the other GMs were hard on me”

That doesn’t impress me very much as a resume builder for Weltman. Why would any GM EVER NOT try to “squeeze you” or vice versa? He’s too determined to not fail or look bad…I think his inaction looks even worse and his leverage will certainly not have improved after several more months of the offense looking even worse with less injured guys out and his young stars pointing out how even Cory Joseph is an improvement. Every day brings more evidence of his poor roster composition and makes the other GMs even “meaner”. I bet Pat Riley snickered at Weltman’s whiny TD story.

[JoshuaPotter]

I notice when we win game threads typically die in terms of how many posts. Just an FYI, I do not login here during the weekend and some days. I am not avoiding a rant ect ect.

Glad the guys won. CoJo is doing what I suspected. Turning this team into a .500+ team. Sad, because we don't need a great PG as much as we need an avg maybe even bellow avg one.

[eyriq]

1. Archetype we need
2. Michigan ties
3. Possible chemistry with our players

The money is not ideal at all..... But at some point we're going to need to sacrifice some defense for offense.... Poole would be the most dynamic offensive guard we've had in quite a while

Sent from my [Sidekick 5G] using RealGM mobile app

And, most importantly, my desire to trade for him 3 years ago, before he went bonkers his first year in WAS, will be hailed as great wisdom and I will once again have a flawless player analysis track record

I can remove my scarlet letter “P”

AB exists. Your evaluation record is forever blemished.

[Knightro]

I notice when we win game threads typically die in terms of how many posts. Just an FYI, I do not login here during the weekend and some days. I am not avoiding a rant ect ect.

Glad the guys won. CoJo is doing what I suspected. Turning this team into a .500+ team. Sad, because we don't need a great PG as much as we need an avg maybe even bellow avg one.

Outrage will always be a bigger selling point than feelings of content.

[drsd]

Slight problem with "two point forwards" hypothesis.

Orlando Magic 22,8 APG. ( 30th)
League's average -26-ish APG

Since all star break, things are even worst- 21,8 apg ( dead last)



Highest usage players in nba.



Franz - 4,7 APG
Banchero 4,8 APG

Giannis 6,5 APG
Lamelo 7,2 APG
SGA- 6,3 APG
Luka 8,5 APG
Cade - 9,2 APG
Ja Morant -7,4 APG
Tatum 5,9 APG

Mitchell 4,8 APG
Edwards 4,6 APG

Victor - 3,9 APG.


As you can see, among 12 highest usage players, our "point forwards" are right there with Edwards & Mitchell ( both play with actual PGs) among lowest APG high usage players in nba.

Mitchell has Garland (6,7 APG); Edwards has Conley ( 4,6 APG in 25 mpg), Victor is damn C.


So can see, whole "point forward" thing is complete and utter BS. They are uber-usage mediocre passers/play makers at best who don't make offense better. They just average some mandatory APG due sheer fact they end every third possession on the floor. And due fact "ending possession" also includes passing to shot, majority of that happens between them.


Things go form ugly to flat out sad when you see shot tendencies from usage. Paolo and SGA with similar usage (0,9 in favor of SGA) are within same %FGA taken with usage. 35%.

Problem? Paolo averages 25 ppg on 19,5 FGA & 54,8% TS.
SGA averages 33 ppg on 21,5 FGA and 64,6% TS.

Basically, for just 2 FGA more, on similar usage, due efficiency, SGA gets 8 points more on 9,8% higher efficiency.


Their current level of offense, in way they play offense is waaaaaaaaaay more similar to Lavine & Derozan than fans want to admit.
Like, we give Franz pass for what? 32% usage rate on 55,8% TS. Just because he plays good defense doesn't mean his offense works.
His eFG% is 3,5% below league's average. That's not acceptable.

We will go nowhere with them playing like this. Most of us wanted to get ACTUAL PLAY MAKER to make ACTUAL EVALUATION of them as players when they work within structure of normal team. Instead we got half of a decade of Marklelle Fultz

And now Weltman will be playing darts in dark, taking team over first apron , to second apron, just to hope one PG can actually make Franz- Paolo duo work.
In single winning season with them, team won because of bench and defense. Not really because of them. Often despite Banchero.

But Weltman did this to ourself, but he will get fired eventually and go home with $10M . I understand him. I don't understand fans who want to defend this nonsense. Post all star break, we are top 10 worst nba team.

Asked chatGPT to simplify the above rant to one sentence. Response: the Magic need to run Pick and Rolls, and play a more uptempo game in general. (not a serious chatGPT response. Just venting about the appalling offense of this team.)


Somehow this reminded me of the 1996 movie Eddie, starring Whoopi Goldberg. As a reminder, it is about an NBA team bringing in a fan coach, and it actually working to lead to wins.

[JF5]

If you think the above is an acceptable explanation for not doing his job…

“I DID make calls but wasn’t able to get a deal done for any of the half dozen, clearly available, suitable combo guard options out there - because the other GMs were hard on me”

That doesn’t impress me very much as a resume builder for Weltman. Why would any GM EVER NOT try to “squeeze you” or vice versa? He’s too determined to not fail or look bad…I think his inaction looks even worse and his leverage will certainly not have improved after several more months of the offense looking even worse with less injured guys out and his young stars pointing out how even Cory Joseph is an improvement. Every day brings more evidence of his poor roster composition and makes the other GMs even “meaner”. I bet Pat Riley snickered at Weltman’s whiny TD story.

I can agree this is very possible. But there were calls that were rumors connecting this team to specifically Anfernee Simons and Coby White during the Trade Deadline.

Maybe teams were asking for a Combo of Black/Carter and this year's first round pick which to me is too much to give. We aren't in those rooms/phone calls to know.

Deals do have to be made in the offseason. They have to be more aggressive.

[drsd]

If you think the above is an acceptable explanation for not doing his job…

“I DID make calls but wasn’t able to get a deal done for any of the half dozen, clearly available, suitable combo guard options out there - because the other GMs were hard on me”

That doesn’t impress me very much as a resume builder for Weltman. Why would any GM EVER NOT try to “squeeze you” or vice versa? He’s too determined to not fail or look bad…I think his inaction looks even worse and his leverage will certainly not have improved after several more months of the offense looking even worse with less injured guys out and his young stars pointing out how even Cory Joseph is an improvement. Every day brings more evidence of his poor roster composition and makes the other GMs even “meaner”. I bet Pat Riley snickered at Weltman’s whiny TD story.

I can agree this is very possible. But there were calls that were rumors connecting this team to specifically Anfernee Simons and Coby White during the Trade Deadline.

Maybe teams were asking for a Combo of Black/Carter and this year's first round pick which to me is too much to give. We aren't in those rooms/phone calls to know.

And-1

The vibe I got from PBO Weltman after the deadline was "I wanted to trade, but teams thought we were desperate so I didn't pull the trigger".
That was a non-Hennigan move and sometimes non-decisions do pay off.
So: let's see what the play-in / round one, and then the off-season brings before we assess the visibly odd decision that no trade was made for a guard and a big to "be better" for this off-season.

Deals do have to be made in the offseason. They have to be more aggressive.

And-2

Enough is enough!

[Skybox]

I notice when we win game threads typically die in terms of how many posts. Just an FYI, I do not login here during the weekend and some days. I am not avoiding a rant ect ect.

whatever man...my Trade Machine is always humming the same tune