Cooper Flagg

[ReggiesKnicks]

Dude doesn't look THAT great out there. I see a lot of Wiggins hype ala 2014.

Dude could very easily turn into the next Matt Harpring or Wally Szerbiak. Stop with the Durant and KG comparisons please.

Hmm...Not sure what you are missing. Wiggins didn't show a high IQ or feel for the game in a way Flagg does. Flagg also absorbs contact and finishes through contact in a way Wiggins never showed as a prospect. Wiggins was spryer and springier while Flagg is more grounded and controlled in his movements. Flagg is already a better passer and playmaker with court-mapping ahead of even current Andrew Wiggins.

Not sure why you are just comparing him to random white dudes who share no common traits with Flagg. Low effort post.

[tsherkin]

Seems like a fair prediction. Just for fun I looked up some 18 years olds rookie seasons and there were a few that managed to make a positive impact, at least using BPM as a barometer:

Touching on this...

There are 12 guys in league history who, as rookies under the age of 20 (and playing 50+ games and 25+ mpg), managed a BPM of >= 0.

If you remove the MPG requirement, it becomes 16 players. If you remove the GP requirement, it becomes 25, including the immortalized 3-game rookie season Jackie Butler had for the Knicks with a BPM of +55.7, hehe.

But yeah, it's a short list of guys overall. Wide range in quality, in the main because there are only so many rookie teenagers in league history.

[Jamaaliver]

Does CF have any realistic shot at living up to the *HYPE building around his last 9 months of basketball?

Read on Twitter

[Special_Puppy]

Dude doesn't look THAT great out there. I see a lot of Wiggins hype ala 2014.

Dude could very easily turn into the next Matt Harpring or Wally Szerbiak. Stop with the Durant and KG comparisons please.

Wiggins BPM: +8.3
Flagg BPM: +16.3

[Rainwater]

Dude doesn't look THAT great out there. I see a lot of Wiggins hype ala 2014.

Dude could very easily turn into the next Matt Harpring or Wally Szerbiak. Stop with the Durant and KG comparisons please.

Lol, I remember Wiggins playing in college dude looked like a bust from the start. He did not look good when compared to the hype. The same cannot be said about Flagg.

Lol at the Matt Harpring and Wally comparisons. These are odd comparisons.

[Ice Man]

It's a similar contrarian viewpoint to the guy who last year wrote about how Caitlin Clark was MUCH worse as a WNBA prospect than Kelsey Plum. WNBA rookie Win Shares -

Clark 3.0
Plum -0.6

[Doctor MJ]

Dude doesn't look THAT great out there. I see a lot of Wiggins hype ala 2014.

Dude could very easily turn into the next Matt Harpring or Wally Szerbiak. Stop with the Durant and KG comparisons please.

Yeah so you're clearly not paying close enough attention to be making such assessments.

Wiggins was a disappointment in freshman season. He didn't win Freshman of the Year (Jabari Parker did), he didn't make consensus All-American 1st team, and his freshman teammate (Joel Embiid) outshone him when healthy.

Flagg on the other hand re-classified a year early - he's supposed to be a high school senior this year - and still is a serious contender for Player of the Year as a freshman, something only done by Durant, AD & Zion previously.

Time will tell how well Flagg translates to the pros, but just watching them in college, he's nothing like Wiggins.

[sp6r=underrated]

It’s so easy to score 25 now, we keep capping some of these guys scoring way too low, because I think part of our brain thinks 20 is still significant.

There's a huge court where everyone isn't playing inside 17 feet most of the game, lots of shooting and pace that is like the NBA before things allowed down. We need to adjust our brains.

I just remember how many people thought guys like Zion and Wemby would be closer to 15-16 ppg as rookies. I don’t think they were underrating them, just still processing their skill sets in different circumstances.

Yup, I have to remind myself of this all the time. As an old I use the wrong statistical baseline for players. Look at the numbers below.

In 2024, 48 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 2024, 17 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 2024, 4 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

In 2014, 20 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 2014, 5 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 2014, 1 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

In 2004, 21 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 2004, 2 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 2004, 0 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

In 1994, 18 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 1994, 5 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 1994, 0 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

In 1984, 28 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 1984, 6 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 1984, 1 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

Unless you are very old or very young your mental baseline for NBA stats is just off.

[Duke4life831]

For him to being a perennial MVP caliber player, he’s going to have to have an A+ progression path. Same goes for everyone though.

To me the way I look at Flagg is, how does the foundation at this age look. Does he excel anywhere? Does he have any big time red flags?

Well to begin with, he leads Duke in the 5 major counting stats. That has never been done before at Duke and it’s not like this is a bad Duke team that lacks talent.

He has plus size and plus athleticism. There are no major kinks in his shooting form. He’s an 80%+ FT shooter. The 3pt shot is his biggest question mark. But he shot 36% from 3, and if you take away his rough first month of shooting, he’s been shooting 42% over the last 25 games.

He leads Duke in assists and has shown legit point forward skills.

His defense isn’t just “potential” like you saw with a lot of young guys. He’s already an elite defender.

So to me, at his age his foundation that he’s built is very advanced. So I think his floor is very high. His versatility on both ends should end up being very high. And he has no major red flags when it comes to capping his potential.

I’d say the only thing that might prevent someone from putting him as a generational prospect, is the fact he doesn’t have the freak physical trait. He’s not 7’4, he’s not a young Shaq physically, or the combo of size and athleticism of LeBron. But outside of that, I think he checks off every box you want from an elite prospect.

[stefanhauzer]

Christian Laettner, anyone?

[ReggiesKnicks]

Christian Laettner, anyone?

"Insert white person who plays nothing like Cooper Flagg"

Remind me what Christian Laettner was doing at age 18? He was still playing high school basketball.

Remind me what Christian Laettner did as a freshman in college? He posted 9/5/1/1 in 16 minutes per game.

Cooper is much closer to a young Larry Bird than he is to Christian Laettner if we are sticking with white people.

Grant Hill is a good comparison but Hill, again, took longer to develop.

People here are forgetting how freaking young this kid is. He isn't supposed to be in college right now. He is arguably the best player in college basketball at 18 years old. Reminds me of Luka vibes where he is a savant in a league of much older and experienced players.

[Marvin Martian]

Dude doesn't look THAT great out there. I see a lot of Wiggins hype ala 2014.

Dude could very easily turn into the next Matt Harpring or Wally Szerbiak. Stop with the Durant and KG comparisons please.

Wiggins was an objectively overrated prospect. He wasn't even the best player on the team in college. It was clearly Embiid but he got hurt

Flagg on the other hand, is the best player on his team and in college basketball.

[sp6r=underrated]

Again, I'm not much of a college hoops fan but as others have said in this thread, his shooting improvement over this season is impressive.

NOV-DEC
FT%: 76.1% (51/67)
3P%: 27.1% (13/48)

January On
FT% 86.4% (108/125)
3P%: 39.4% (30/76)

He went from looking like a PF with a solid but pedestrian jumper to an excellent shooter in a couple of months. The fact he's been reliably above 85% tells me he will have a solid NBA 3 point shot. There are very, very, very few players who shoot FTs in that range who can't give you 3s.

No guarantee he can make the next leap into the ~90% range but I think he'll end up closer to there than regressing.

[Marvin Martian]

Does CF have any realistic shot at living up to the building around his last 9 months of basketball?

Read on Twitter

Depends on where he goes. If he goes to CHA, PHI, SAS, or NOL absolutely not. They will handcuff him.

If he goes to WAS, UTA, or BKN he will have a chance.

[amcoolio]

Does CF have any realistic shot at living up to the building around his last 9 months of basketball?

Read on Twitter

Depends on where he goes. If he goes to CHA, PHI, SAS, or NOL absolutely not. They will handcuff him.

If he goes to WAS, UTA, or BKN he will have a chance.

What

Charlotte is pretty clearly wanting to hand the franchise to a player like this, with the new owners, GM and direction

They've never had an opportunity to draft a player like this unlike WAS, PHI, SAS, NOL

[DC_Melo]

For anyone wondering, Darko posted an impressive -10.4… It is really difficult to be THAT bad… and on a title winning team too!

Thanks for doing the work. I went to Stathead and searched for 18 year old rookies, but only 2 players showed up. I think that is because Stathead doesn't go by age when the season starts, but instead either by average age during the season, or age when the season ends.

So I screened instead on rookies who were either 18 or 19. Fourteen of them have had positive BPMs -

Kyrie 4.1
Luka 3.9
Drum 2.5
AD 2.5
LeMelo 1.8
LBJ 1.7
Tatum 1.2
Deng 1.2
KG 1.0
TMac 0.6
Thad Young 0.5
Derrick Lively (!) 0.5
Beal 0.2
Melo 0.1

Almost all of them became All Stars, with about half being HOFers.

(Note - While almost all these players are fairly recent, the stat goes back to the Seventies. But there weren't teenage players back in the day.)

Nice! Appreciate the info. One interesting thing about Flagg is that unlike most other 18 year olds on that list, he will be coming in with a year of college experience and at a blue chip program too. Should be an entertaining rookie season!

[DC_Melo]

Dude doesn't look THAT great out there. I see a lot of Wiggins hype ala 2014.

Dude could very easily turn into the next Matt Harpring or Wally Szerbiak. Stop with the Durant and KG comparisons please.

Hmm...Not sure what you are missing. Wiggins didn't show a high IQ or feel for the game in a way Flagg does. Flagg also absorbs contact and finishes through contact in a way Wiggins never showed as a prospect. Wiggins was spryer and springier while Flagg is more grounded and controlled in his movements. Flagg is already a better passer and playmaker with court-mapping ahead of even current Andrew Wiggins.

Not sure why you are just comparing him to random white dudes who share no common traits with Flagg. Low effort post.

Yea… they were very different college players, with Wiggins relying almost exclusively on athleticism while Flagg has much more of a full bag and high IQ to boot. I remember listening to Wiggins first interview immediately after he got drafted and he could barely connect two words together. I tried giving him the benefit of the doubt that maybe he was just nervous on his draft day, but sadly his play throughout his career has done little to convince me he’s not an extremely low IQ player

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Does CF have any realistic shot at living up to the building around his last 9 months of basketball?

Read on Twitter

Depends on where he goes. If he goes to CHA, PHI, SAS, or NOL absolutely not. They will handcuff him.

If he goes to WAS, UTA, or BKN he will have a chance.

What

Charlotte is pretty clearly wanting to hand the franchise to a player like this, with the new owners, GM and direction

They've never had an opportunity to draft a player like this unlike WAS, PHI, SAS, NOL

You'd have to get rid of LaMelo and Bridges, neither of those guys are mature / professional enough to be part of a rebuild where cutlure is important. A franchise that can't see that LaMelo is a loser type shouldn't be allowed to draft Flagg either.

Miller is a keeper though.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Dude doesn't look THAT great out there. I see a lot of Wiggins hype ala 2014.

Dude could very easily turn into the next Matt Harpring or Wally Szerbiak. Stop with the Durant and KG comparisons please.

I thought he looked great, especially if you go back and look at how bad that ankle injury looked, the fact he's even playing on it is pretty crazy. That should have kept him out 2-3 weeks.

[tmorgan]

Discussing the year’s top prospect is always exciting, but at this point, there’s nothing left to be said. Zero debate about who is going first, almost zero debate he’s going to be an All-Star on his rookie deal. The only questions that remain are:

1) Who gets the first pick, and how do they envision using Cooper?

You gotta hope it’s a team that lets him run the offense, at least some of the time. He has the talent and will need the reps to develop it. Cooper has a history of starting a little slow at each new level, so some patience is required. I can see the “Is CF a bust?” threads on the GB in November already.

2) What is Flagg’s ceiling?

If you’re not sure he’s a near future All-Star, you stink at talent evaluation. But can he make All-NBA his early twenties? Can he be a top 5 player in the league? These are the questions. You don’t need to be an elite athlete to dominate in the NBA, there are endless examples. But you do need a wide skillset, and seeing what translates for Flagg, both immediately and in the future, is going to be very interesting.

Lotto Selection Day is a really big one this year. Not as big as Wemby is now a Spur Day a couple years back, but still pretty huge for the future of a franchise. I’m rooting for Dallas, Charlotte or Washington. I just hope they do the right things if they get him.