2024-25 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt. 3)

[G R E Y]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Rust_Cohle]

Castle rightfully running away with the award

[7seventynine9]

Castle is playing well but the questions surrounding him before the season was his 3-point shooting. And this still has not been answered. In the month of March he's shooting 33.3% from 3 on 5.5 attempts. For the season Sarr has attempted more 3's than Castle and makes them at a higher percentage. And in March Sarr is shooting 6 3's a game and making 38.3% of them. Spurs fans dominate the thread and they can believe what they want. But belief is not the same as reality. If you would have told people before the draft that Sarr would be shooting that many 3's at that percentage in March and then tell them how Castle is playing no one would take Castle over Sarr. All you're showing is that Spurs fans are overly sensitive and lack objectivity.

Except that Castle's shooting doesn't matter as much as people thought. He is very skilled and crafty around the rim and can draw fouls at an elite rate. I don't think people saw that coming. Even if he doesn't improve his shooting significantly, he can still score with decent efficiency. When you add in the off ball ability, playmaking, and defense, you have an elite prospect in mold of Jimmy Butler

I haven't watched Sarr this season. But looking at his numbers, he is shooting well as of late. Question is as a prospect, how is he better than say, Myles Turner?

I mean, Myles Turner is a borderline top 10 center. Sarr is already basically Myles Turner at 19 y/o. That's his floor. Evan Mobley or a little better is his ceiling. Not too shabby for one of the weakest drafts in history eh?

Then compare this draft to the Evan Mobley draft. Tell me how it holds up. Mobley, Cunningham, Franz, Barnes, Senquin, Jalen Johnson, Green, Thomas, Suggs, Murphy etc. The year Myles Turner was drafted, so were KAT, Booker, Porzingis and Powell. That draft wasn't particularly strong, either.

There are going to be all stars in this draft, it's still weak compared to the others. That doesn't mean Risacher, Sarr and Castle won't be good basketball players who could make an all star game or two. But sure, if Sarr ends up as good or better than Mobley and Castle ends up better than Cade Cunningham, it wasn't a weak draft.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2021.html Mobley draft
https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2015.html Turner draft

[Marvin Martian]

Castle is playing well but the questions surrounding him before the season was his 3-point shooting. And this still has not been answered. In the month of March he's shooting 33.3% from 3 on 5.5 attempts. For the season Sarr has attempted more 3's than Castle and makes them at a higher percentage. And in March Sarr is shooting 6 3's a game and making 38.3% of them. Spurs fans dominate the thread and they can believe what they want. But belief is not the same as reality. If you would have told people before the draft that Sarr would be shooting that many 3's at that percentage in March and then tell them how Castle is playing no one would take Castle over Sarr. All you're showing is that Spurs fans are overly sensitive and lack objectivity.

Except that Castle's shooting doesn't matter as much as people thought. He is very skilled and crafty around the rim and can draw fouls at an elite rate. I don't think people saw that coming. Even if he doesn't improve his shooting significantly, he can still score with decent efficiency. When you add in the off ball ability, playmaking, and defense, you have an elite prospect in mold of Jimmy Butler

I haven't watched Sarr this season. But looking at his numbers, he is shooting well as of late. Question is as a prospect, how is he better than say, Myles Turner?

If you're not going to actually watch Sarr play is their any reason to have a conversation? about him As for your other point, I think it's a mistake this early in his career to say Castle will go the Jimmy Butler route. There's only one Jimmy Butler and his play style doesn't mesh nicely with other skillsets. Butler's skillset works because he can take over games offensively in the playoffs and be ball dominant. Because you guys have Wemby in key moments the ball won't be in Castle's hands. This is why your analysis is flawed. Jimmy Butler spent his career as a 1. The Spurs have a 1 and it's not Castle. As good as a Castle might be, a non shooting version will not work.

You say Jimmy Butler, I say Tyreke Evans. Next year when you're at full strength where does Castle fit into the offense? Fox will need his shots. Wemby will need his shots. This is the challenge of player projection. It's not just talking about players in a vacuum. It's about understanding what your team needs to do to win, how player skillsets fit together and how productive players can be in that role. With Fox and Wemby already on your roster, either Castle improves his 3-point shooting or he will likely have to find a new team. Like Josh Giddey. Wemby has one more offseason before his grace runs out and people will start to criticize his lack of winning.

Butler did not start his career as a number 1. He was an elite role player in CHI for 3 years before turning into a star. Also FYI his career high PPG is only around 20 points. He has spent most of his career just trying to fit in with other stars.

I think Fox is overrated and he should be the one packing his bags as he is the only one standing in the way of Castle's development

[prime1time]

Except that Castle's shooting doesn't matter as much as people thought. He is very skilled and crafty around the rim and can draw fouls at an elite rate. I don't think people saw that coming. Even if he doesn't improve his shooting significantly, he can still score with decent efficiency. When you add in the off ball ability, playmaking, and defense, you have an elite prospect in mold of Jimmy Butler

I haven't watched Sarr this season. But looking at his numbers, he is shooting well as of late. Question is as a prospect, how is he better than say, Myles Turner?

If you're not going to actually watch Sarr play is their any reason to have a conversation? about him As for your other point, I think it's a mistake this early in his career to say Castle will go the Jimmy Butler route. There's only one Jimmy Butler and his play style doesn't mesh nicely with other skillsets. Butler's skillset works because he can take over games offensively in the playoffs and be ball dominant. Because you guys have Wemby in key moments the ball won't be in Castle's hands. This is why your analysis is flawed. Jimmy Butler spent his career as a 1. The Spurs have a 1 and it's not Castle. As good as a Castle might be, a non shooting version will not work.

You say Jimmy Butler, I say Tyreke Evans. Next year when you're at full strength where does Castle fit into the offense? Fox will need his shots. Wemby will need his shots. This is the challenge of player projection. It's not just talking about players in a vacuum. It's about understanding what your team needs to do to win, how player skillsets fit together and how productive players can be in that role. With Fox and Wemby already on your roster, either Castle improves his 3-point shooting or he will likely have to find a new team. Like Josh Giddey. Wemby has one more offseason before his grace runs out and people will start to criticize his lack of winning.

Butler did not start his career as a number 1. He was an elite role player in CHI for 3 years before turning into a star. Also FYI his career high PPG is only around 20 points. He has spent most of his career just trying to fit in with other stars.

I think Fox is overrated and he should be the one packing his bags as he is the only one standing in the way of Castle's development

I have to disagree with this. I don't think stats paint the entire picture. There regular season Jimmy and then there's playoff Jimmy. Playoff Jimmy is a dominant #1 option that takes over the teams offense.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=HouseofHighlights

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=NBA

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=NBA
Playoff Jimmy is a different animal. Very similar to regular season Manu and playoff Manu. There's a real chance that Castle might never come close to doing in the playoffs what Jimmy Butler has done. People might disagree but I have Jimmy B as a 1st ballot HOF.

[Marvin Martian]

Spoiler:

If you're not going to actually watch Sarr play is their any reason to have a conversation? about him As for your other point, I think it's a mistake this early in his career to say Castle will go the Jimmy Butler route. There's only one Jimmy Butler and his play style doesn't mesh nicely with other skillsets. Butler's skillset works because he can take over games offensively in the playoffs and be ball dominant. Because you guys have Wemby in key moments the ball won't be in Castle's hands. This is why your analysis is flawed. Jimmy Butler spent his career as a 1. The Spurs have a 1 and it's not Castle. As good as a Castle might be, a non shooting version will not work.

You say Jimmy Butler, I say Tyreke Evans. Next year when you're at full strength where does Castle fit into the offense? Fox will need his shots. Wemby will need his shots. This is the challenge of player projection. It's not just talking about players in a vacuum. It's about understanding what your team needs to do to win, how player skillsets fit together and how productive players can be in that role. With Fox and Wemby already on your roster, either Castle improves his 3-point shooting or he will likely have to find a new team. Like Josh Giddey. Wemby has one more offseason before his grace runs out and people will start to criticize his lack of winning.

Butler did not start his career as a number 1. He was an elite role player in CHI for 3 years before turning into a star. Also FYI his career high PPG is only around 20 points. He has spent most of his career just trying to fit in with other stars.

I think Fox is overrated and he should be the one packing his bags as he is the only one standing in the way of Castle's development

I have to disagree with this. I don't think stats paint the entire picture. There regular season Jimmy and then there's playoff Jimmy. Playoff Jimmy is a dominant #1 option that takes over the teams offense.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=HouseofHighlights

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=NBA

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=NBA
Playoff Jimmy is a different animal. Very similar to regular season Manu and playoff Manu. There's a real chance that Castle might never come close to doing in the playoffs what Jimmy Butler has done. People might disagree but I have Jimmy B as a 1st ballot HOF.

Stats do paint the picture. Playoff Jimmy wasn't even a thing until he went to MIA and he was 30 years old. Outside of his MIA playoff stint, he was just an elite role player giving you 20-5-5 who can on occasion, take over games. He was never a consistent #1. That's the guy Castle can be. He is still only 20

[dawhizz]

Buzelis with 31 on 12/18 and 5/10 from 3. His 3 ball has not been falling recently and he’s been on a short leash with Billy with some sloppy ball handling and turnovers (like the one he had on a 2 on 1 fast break tonight) so encouraging.

Also this, which was on Luka, but still:

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=cLrE-3h2uw3rACxhQZYEvg

[FarBeyondDriven]

Except that Castle's shooting doesn't matter as much as people thought. He is very skilled and crafty around the rim and can draw fouls at an elite rate. I don't think people saw that coming. Even if he doesn't improve his shooting significantly, he can still score with decent efficiency. When you add in the off ball ability, playmaking, and defense, you have an elite prospect in mold of Jimmy Butler

I haven't watched Sarr this season. But looking at his numbers, he is shooting well as of late. Question is as a prospect, how is he better than say, Myles Turner?

I mean, Myles Turner is a borderline top 10 center. Sarr is already basically Myles Turner at 19 y/o. That's his floor. Evan Mobley or a little better is his ceiling. Not too shabby for one of the weakest drafts in history eh?

Then compare this draft to the Evan Mobley draft. Tell me how it holds up. Mobley, Cunningham, Franz, Barnes, Senquin, Jalen Johnson, Green, Thomas, Suggs, Murphy etc. The year Myles Turner was drafted, so were KAT, Booker, Porzingis and Powell. That draft wasn't particularly strong, either.

There are going to be all stars in this draft, it's still weak compared to the others. That doesn't mean Risacher, Sarr and Castle won't be good basketball players who could make an all star game or two. But sure, if Sarr ends up as good or better than Mobley and Castle ends up better than Cade Cunningham, it wasn't a weak draft.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2021.html Mobley draft
https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2015.html Turner draft

2021 is a great draft class, just shy of elite and nobody is comparing 2024 to it or has said it's as strong. Nor does it compare to elite classes like 2017 or 2018. My contention is if you took the no-doubt one or two studs you find at the top of most drafts, that 2024 clearly lacks, then 2024 compares favorably to most classes. The absence of those studs does not mean it's weak or even weaker than other classes because it makes up for that with its depth. Problem is draft "experts" and the casuals that get their opinions from them, determine draft strength by the talent at the top and don't really consider much else.

Just don't be surprised looking back in a few years that 2024 "surprised" people by not being one of the weakest draft classes in history. Of course, everyone will move goalposts and hand-wave away the fact that they were dead wrong despite being adamant and very vocal about it, chalking it up to "it's not an exact science!"

[EmpireFalls]

Matas is so good

[Dan Z]

Matas is so good

I'm surprised that Matas didn't go higher in the draft, but I'm glad the Bulls got him.

[bstein14]

RH2 the first teenager ever to put up a 25/5/5 game without a TO. Of course no chance he'd get that many touches with Cade + Ivey but interesting to see him step up when the opportunity came with Cade out.

[tmorgan]

Holland has done far too little this year to be in the convo for RotY, but he’s already nice as a transition player and defender. On the days his shot is falling (like today), he’s hard to defend, because he’ll definitely go around you if you play his shot tight.

Detroit has a lot of choices to make before next year in terms of who gets minutes at the 1-2-3. Even if they let Schroder and THJ go (re-signing Beasley is a must), that’s still Cade, Sasser, Ivey, Holland, Beasley and Ausar that need minutes. There aren’t enough.

[remi_222]

Watch on YouTube

[HMFFL]

ROY Odds
Castle -750
Alex Sarr has entered the chat +1000
Zaccharie Risacher +1600
Jaylen Wells +2000

Sent from my SM-S928U1 using RealGM mobile app

[GSWFan1994]

The Cade/Ivey/Holland/Ausar/Duren lineup is gonna be amazing a couple of years down the road.

[Jamaaliver]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

[jasonxxx102]

The Cade/Ivey/Holland/Ausar/Duren lineup is gonna be amazing a couple of years down the road.

Who's gonna shoot the ball?

That might be the worst lineup spacing in the history of the modern NBA.

34/35/20/22/0 - These are the career 3pt% for each guy.

That would be worse offense than the Magic with half of the defense.

[Bornstellar]

The Cade/Ivey/Holland/Ausar/Duren lineup is gonna be amazing a couple of years down the road.

Defensively sure. Offensively, not a chance

[Jamaaliver]

That...is a 9 day stretch, brother.

This kid is playing too well right now

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

[GSWFan1994]

The Cade/Ivey/Holland/Ausar/Duren lineup is gonna be amazing a couple of years down the road.

Who's gonna shoot the ball?

That might be the worst lineup spacing in the history of the modern NBA.

34/35/20/22/0 - These are the career 3pt% for each guy.

That would be worse offense than the Magic with half of the defense.

Sure, I agree with you, that's why I said "a couple years down the road", I'm betting on them improving enough to be considered adequate.