Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer

[dougthonus]

One thing I go back on forth on right now is whether or not that's a realistic aspiration for this team. That outcomes feels optimistic for this group, but definitely better chances than anything we've had since Lonzo went down.

If you think it can, then it makes sense to resign Giddey & Coby and build around them. If it doesn't, it would actually be a good time to initiate a tank because you'd be selling very high on both of them and could get extra draft picks to accelerate a rebuild.

Yeah, the question is also what does a "sell high" look like on both guys.

[League Circles]

And yet they both did full rebuilds.

Not to any more of an extent than the Bulls have.

Former core: Derozan, Zach, Vuc, Caruso, Ball

Current rebuilt core projection for better or worse: Giddey, Coby, Matas, tbd

Good talk. What you're saying doesn't make any sense to me. You were saying we were a few games from doing a full rebuild. That either means changing an entire core or it means clearing the decks to rebuild around "the guy". The former we've already done. The latter would be insane because there is no "the guy" available that would make getting rid of guys like Coby, Giddey (and Matas, Ball, Smith, Ayo?) wise to liquidate, because the upside of all those guys is much better than the upside of what we could have got in trade for them.

Is this all about Vuc lol? He's at best the 3rd worst player on our roster, old as hell and absolutely not part of this team for any reason other than his contract status.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Before this current streak it was likely Vuc was gone (he still will be)

One player who’s suddenly buying in — and would like to stay another season and finish out his contract — is Vucevic. That’s a bit surprising, especially after good friend DeMar DeRozan was traded to the Kings and Alex Caruso to the Thunder last summer, followed by the LaVine trade. All signs had pointed to Vucevic being traded by the Feb.  6 deadline, and when he wasn’t, there were concerns he’d check out.

“Who knows what happens in the summer, but right now I’m focused on this group of guys,” Vucevic said. “I’ve really enjoyed playing with them. Guys with good character, guys that really want to win, they care. We play for each other, we compete, and that’s what you want.”

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Vooch is a good guy. Great lockeroom guy too. But he is done with this team. He has nothing for the team going forward.

What I have liked since the allstar break, is that Vooch is basically an afterthought. He is not the first option. He is not the second option. If he is hot, sure we will go to him. But the importance of making sure Vooch is involved is gone.

I now look at Vooch as the occasional guy to score if the rest of the team doesnt have it going. Also for rebounding etc.

But since he isn't the main focus on offense anymore, his bad defense hurts us even more than before. Think Enes Kanter(Freedom)

For our sake, please just move him for whatever we can get as soon as the season is over.

[dougthonus]

Vooch is a good guy. Great lockeroom guy too. But he is done with this team. He has nothing for the team going forward.

What I have liked since the allstar break, is that Vooch is basically an afterthought. He is not the first option. He is not the second option. If he is hot, sure we will go to him. But the importance of making sure Vooch is involved is gone.

I now look at Vooch as the occasional guy to score if the rest of the team doesnt have it going. Also for rebounding etc.

But since he isn't the main focus on offense anymore, his bad defense hurts us even more than before. Think Enes Kanter(Freedom)

For our sake, please just move him for whatever we can get as soon as the season is over.

Since ramping up after injury, he's still averaging 29 minutes a game and ~12-13 shots. Definitely a decline in his usage, but not in his minutes.

[meekrab]

Since ramping up after injury, he's still averaging 29 minutes a game and ~12-13 shots. Definitely a decline in his usage, but not in his minutes.

That 29 minutes a game is 10% down from pre all star break and pre-LaVine trade in general actually, it's a pretty sizable reduction considering in past years Billy has clung to 33-ish Vuc MPG like his security blanket even when we had Drummond outperforming him. Now that he's got two other options in Collins and Smith he's harder to justify getting over 30 minutes.

On the other hand we've been playing really well and stomping some teams and actually getting a chance to rest the starters at the end of games for a change.

[dougthonus]

Since ramping up after injury, he's still averaging 29 minutes a game and ~12-13 shots. Definitely a decline in his usage, but not in his minutes.

That 29 minutes a game is 10% down from pre all star break and pre-LaVine trade in general actually, it's a pretty sizable reduction considering in past years Billy has clung to 33-ish Vuc MPG like his security blanket even when we had Drummond outperforming him. Now that he's got two other options in Collins and Smith he's harder to justify getting over 30 minutes.

On the other hand we've been playing really well and stomping some teams and actually getting a chance to rest the starters at the end of games for a change.

Still pretty crazy given I'd say Vuc might be our worst center.

Especially in the role we are using him now, I think Collins would be much better.

[MGB8]

Elite prospects are guys that look worth clearing the deck and completely rebuilding around before you even need to see them for a couple years to confirm. Maybe Flagg meets that definition, maybe. Guys like that are never available outside the top 2 or 3 picks, usually there are none or one at #1 in a draft.

For example, if were were to be able to draft Harper this summer, it's not like he's a sure thing to build around, or even a safe bet to be better than Giddey and Coby. So the Bulls nor any smart team who has those guys would draft Harper and then just liquidate everyone for "picks", which is what a "full rebuild" would be. The reason I mentioned Jalen Smith, Ball, Giddey, Coby White (I could have added Wendell Carter, Patrick Williams, etc) is because those guys are realistic outcomes of picks in the range we'd likely have drafted if we had tanked harder, both this summer and next. Getting a few top 10 picks is not likely to yield you cornerstone type building blocks, so it was never likely nor wise for us to clear the decks and do a "full rebuild".

That happens like once every 5-10 years. If that was the way to do it. Detroit and Houston wouldn't be where they are right now. For every Jalen Smith taken 10th and becomes a journeyman you also have Franz Wagner taken with the Bulls pick who was just maxed out in Orlando.

None of Detroit, Orlando or Houston has a player worth clearing the decks to do a "full rebuild" around.

Maybe Banchero. Injury hurt him this season, but pre-injury, he was a beast (Suggs had leveled up, too).

[Jcool0]

That happens like once every 5-10 years. If that was the way to do it. Detroit and Houston wouldn't be where they are right now. For every Jalen Smith taken 10th and becomes a journeyman you also have Franz Wagner taken with the Bulls pick who was just maxed out in Orlando.

None of Detroit, Orlando or Houston has a player worth clearing the decks to do a "full rebuild" around.

Maybe Banchero. Injury hurt him this season, but pre-injury, he was a beast (Suggs had leveled up, too).

Paolo Banchero since the All Star break: 29.6 pts, 7.3 rbs, 4.2 ast per game on 48/37/80 (60% TS) efficiency

[MGB8]

None of Detroit, Orlando or Houston has a player worth clearing the decks to do a "full rebuild" around.

Maybe Banchero. Injury hurt him this season, but pre-injury, he was a beast (Suggs had leveled up, too).

Paolo Banchero since the All Star break: 29.6 pts, 7.3 rbs, 4.2 ast per game on 48/37/80 (60% TS) efficiency

Back to being a beast, then!

[2weekswithpay]

Spotrac Article

Josh Giddey

Projected Next Contract: four years, $108 million

Analysis: Considering the Bulls gave Patrick Williams $18 million a year over five years, and he’s never shown as much as Giddey has, we’re bumping Giddey’s number up. We’re also knocking a year off, as Giddey isn’t going to fetch a player option on his final season, so he’ll likely only want to lock in for four years.

[meekrab]

Kuminga has "primary scorer on a good team potential" but Giddey's comparison is Patrick Williams? Kinda scatterbrained article.

[WindyCityBorn]

Spotrac Article

Josh Giddey

Projected Next Contract: four years, $108 million

Analysis: Considering the Bulls gave Patrick Williams $18 million a year over five years, and he’s never shown as much as Giddey has, we’re bumping Giddey’s number up. We’re also knocking a year off, as Giddey isn’t going to fetch a player option on his final season, so he’ll likely only want to lock in for four years.

That’s probably the starting point of negotiations.

[Jcool0]

Kuminga has "primary scorer on a good team potential" but Giddey's comparison is Patrick Williams? Kinda scatterbrained article.

If Kuminga isn't a good 3rd option on a good team, how would he be a good 1st option on a playoff team? These salary sites trying to analyze players is just a waste of time.

[Ice Man]

Analysis: Considering the Bulls gave Patrick Williams $18 million a year over five years, and he’s never shown as much as Giddey has, we’re bumping Giddey’s number up. We’re also knocking a year off, as Giddey isn’t going to fetch a player option on his final season, so he’ll likely only want to lock in for four years.

[/quote]

Wait now! If we overpay Patrick, then we're not only punished by that contract but with future contracts as well? Damn, I hope that's not right; if that were so, my soul would be hurt.

[WindyCityBorn]

Analysis: Considering the Bulls gave Patrick Williams $18 million a year over five years, and he’s never shown as much as Giddey has, we’re bumping Giddey’s number up. We’re also knocking a year off, as Giddey isn’t going to fetch a player option on his final season, so he’ll likely only want to lock in for four years.

Wait now! If we overpay Patrick, then we're not only punished by that contract but with future contracts as well? Damn, I hope that's not right; if that were so, my soul would be hurt.[/quote]

Yeah that’s not how it works.

[WindyCityBorn]

Kuminga has "primary scorer on a good team potential" but Giddey's comparison is Patrick Williams? Kinda scatterbrained article.

If Kuminga isn't a good 3rd option on a good team, how would he be a good 1st option on a playoff team? These salary sites trying to analyze players is just a waste of time.

People still talk about Kuminga as foundational player?

[WindyCityBorn]

None of Detroit, Orlando or Houston has a player worth clearing the decks to do a "full rebuild" around.

Maybe Banchero. Injury hurt him this season, but pre-injury, he was a beast (Suggs had leveled up, too).

Paolo Banchero since the All Star break: 29.6 pts, 7.3 rbs, 4.2 ast per game on 48/37/80 (60% TS) efficiency

How is Wagner doing?

[Jcool0]

Maybe Banchero. Injury hurt him this season, but pre-injury, he was a beast (Suggs had leveled up, too).

Paolo Banchero since the All Star break: 29.6 pts, 7.3 rbs, 4.2 ast per game on 48/37/80 (60% TS) efficiency

How is Wagner doing?

22.6 points, 5.7 rebounds and 4.4

[jordanwilliams6]

Paolo Banchero since the All Star break: 29.6 pts, 7.3 rbs, 4.2 ast per game on 48/37/80 (60% TS) efficiency

How is Wagner doing?

22.6 points, 5.7 rebounds and 4.4

The Magic won't be an elite team unless Paolo & Franz learn to shoot from deep. If you're two best players are hoisting a combined 12 3PA at 31% from deep, there's a limitation on your ceiling in the modern NBA.

[Jcool0]

How is Wagner doing?

22.6 points, 5.7 rebounds and 4.4

The Magic won't be an elite team unless Paolo & Franz learn to shoot from deep. If you're two best players are hoisting a combined 12 3PA at 31% from deep, there's a limitation on your ceiling in the modern NBA.

I'd still take those two over any two on Chicago

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