Mavrelous wrote:Exp0sed wrote:Mavrelous wrote:Because the entire argument for Jokic is on/off based, when you bring his PO on/off immediately it shifts to the very arguments that are ignored in RS.
I never said or suggested Nuggets would have fared better w/o Jokic, you did, anyone who uses on/off in RS as gospel, should do the same in the PO.
I think Jokic is an elite player, but he isn't the reason for his insane on/off but Malone rotations and Nuggets roster construction, you OTOH insist Jokic teammates suck, yet if we use your criteria it turns out he is the one who sucks.
You don't waive your hand and make on/off valid at 34 MPG in RS but invalid at 40 MPG in the PO, the sample has 39 games, that's half a season worth not a small sample.
fair enough
first of all, i'm not an on\off guy at all (too old for that lol) you can read my posts, you won't find me making arguments based on on\off. like any metric, it can be useful in context but is also very problematic, precisely for stuff like u mentioned (different rotations, strategies etc.)
the reason I think his teammates "suck" isn't because of on\off it's because I have watched a ton of Nuggets games in the past decade. I really think that both MPJ and Murray are very low i.q players who are also defensive liabilities, that doesn't mean they don't have elite qualities and they certainly do. MPJ is a great shooter with impressive length and Murray is a very good shooter and an elite tough shot maker. those are def great skills to have but imo, that's based on years of watching this core play not on\off and my opinions is that both of these guys have benefited tremendously from playing their entire careers next to Jokic and would be viewed very differently if they were traded to say..a bottom feeding team
anyways, i'm suspicious about on\off in general and that suspicion runs alot higher when we're talking about the playoff sample. it's not just about the total mins, playing against the same team etc. also has an effect on it. a larger sample of a whole season, playing against all the teams in the league is much more reliable and stretches of 15+ mins for each data point are much more reliable building blocks than 6 mins spurts, who are affected much more by random stuff like - who had possession when the substituion was made etc
fwiw, "roster construction" alone cannot explain the insane cratering of the Nuggets offense without Jokic. I can see the argument for on\off (Nuggets haven't had a viable backup C for years now and are playing either smaller guys like AG or NNaji or DAJ etc.) but I don't see how rotations or roster construction explain in any meaningful way, why the Nuggets have the best offense in the league basically, with Jokic on the court are have a Wizards level offense, like truly on the worst in the league (if not the worst) - without him on the court
