2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V

[Ghost of Kleine]

You're not getting premium FRP's in a KD deal. We're ironically the cautionary tale of giving up premium draft capital for an aging player. The GS pick is fine to me but that 2031, who knows, good be bad could be good. No one is going to give you a surefire lotto pick (ie from a historically bad team) for KD at this point imo.

I don't think Miami is keen to move either their 8th pick nor Ware fwiw

Based on what legitimate information aside from you're subjective opinion?

If you don't think the Heat's front office would be willing to give up the 8th pick for KD in interest of trying to compete again and not only maximize Herros' and Bams' prime years while also trying to quickly move past the utter embarrassment of how bad they've been after deciding to trade Butler, then I just don't know what to tell you.

Do you really think that the Heat's front office wants to suck this bad? Would Riley? Would Mickey Arison? Would they be ok with looking like they lost the battle from giving up Butler and being mediocre or worse?

What rookie around the 8th pick do you really think would offer the same level of competitive impact that KD would for them?

It's just ludicrous to think they'd pivot to prioritizing being bad and rebuilding over trying to contend and look like they won the Butler fiasco by removing him. Also the GS 1st would be ok for you in a KD trade man? You do realize that pick is currently the 21st pick right?

Do you think that KDs' value is a late 1st in an average draft honestly? What do you think would happen to a GM that decided to trade KD for a late 1st as a pick value return? They'd probably be fired on the spot.

And the Miami 31' 1st might be bad?........... based off of what exactly? Look at the age of their current players. That pick being 6 yrs out currently. Adebayo would be 33 yrs old, and Herro would be 31 yrs old.

And neither might even be on their roster by then too ( aside from Ware and some young players). So how good do you think they'll actually be in 31?

Lastly, while I can agree that Ware is unlikely, I think they'd have no issues whatsoever giving up the 8th pick in an average draft for KD who's still putting up near MVP level numbers and still looks fairly unstoppable too. And knowing that he'd likely resign there.

To claim that a team wouldn't be willing to give up a premium pick ( first for KD in a trade) especially one in Miami's situation (trying to save face post Butler trade) is just wild to me man.

I don't think they are willing to give up the farm for KD. I don't think that's controversial a take at all. I also don't think they are prioritising being bad. On path to being competitive is to trade for a KD this summer with assets but another could also be 2026 free agency where they may be able to get KD without giving up anything.

And to be clear, when I say premium FRP, I'm thinking top 7. Something in the mid to late lotto would be a good FRP and anything in the 20's would just be a FRP. We might be able to squeeze a good lotto pick but I doubt the Heat would give up the 8th pick for a 37 year old KD. If that pick drops and ends up being worse than 8, they could potentially give that up over giving up Ware but I think they keep the pick if it's 8 or higher.

I don't know what the Miami 1st in 2031 is going to look like, nobody knows. They could hit over the next year couple of years with some great signings or trades and be back at it again but Miami has always been a very competitive team without long stretches (ie 3+ seasons stretches of tanking) and I would probably think they will be closer to a competitive team than some lotto team. Bam and Herro would probably be in the back end of their primes but still in their prime.

I think at the end of the day, as good as KD still is, Riley has never been a big gambler (unlike Ishbia). KD might still be elite for another couple of years, maybe into his late 30's like Bron but I don't see Riley putting his faith and the good assets he has for that pretty small window. And he'll need to extend him as well.

Reasonable perspective for the reasons you mentioned. Although I do disagree with you on Arisons' and Riley's level of interest in securing KD as soon as possible to move past the whole Butler decision debacle which would be an embarrassing moment they'd surely like to put in the past.

They promoted Butler as the problem holding them back. Then they trade him and are struggling terribly. A horrific outcome for them as their franchise has always been known as a top franchise honestly. KD would obviously help them contend again rather quickly slotted in at the SF with Bam at the 4 and Ware at the 5. They'd really just need to secure their PG position. And they're be options for them to consider in trades, etc.

But I don't think they'll prefer to wait and try to land him in free agency at the risk of him signing elsewhere or possibly resigning here as he seems to still like it here.


I believe they'd prefer to trade for him and at least see for a full season where they finish at in the east and then make a determination on resigning him or just letting him walk and using that cap space elsewhere. For 26' free agency.

It's a bird in hand scenario allowing them to test run him for a full season prior to 26' free agency to see how he fits with their core and then make a more informed decision based upon the outcome during the 25' season prior to the loaded 26' free agency. So they'll know (with advanced time) if this experiment will work, or if it flops, then they'd still have optimal cap space heading into that loaded free agency to spend elsewhere if it doesn't.

But ultimately I don't think they'd prefer to wait another year (implied risk of age related drop off) as he'll only get older with less years left. But also because they'd still have to compete against a number of other teams too. Many with possibly better rosters to surround him with and/ or better competitive situations as well that could sway him to sign elsewhere.

And while waiting on his decision, they'd lose out on other potential key free agency signing opportunities. If they wait and he reaches unrestricted free agency, 3 such teams that would be much more enticing could be:

1- Dallas.
With Kyrie and Davis and a full roster back creating a big three around irving, Durant and Davis with quality depth and young pieces too.

2- Golden State.
If GS can find a way to create cap to sign him or he's willing to sign for a bit less to play with BOTH Curry and Butler, etc whom he's wanted to play with ( the reason we were trying to add him) then they'd have a big three of Curry, Butler and Durant. And likely a miluch better chance at a championship run than with us or Miami as both are currently constructed.

3- San Antonio.
Wemby would be back, Popovich (his favored coach that he one two gold medals under in the Tokyo Olympics) would/could come back too, they'd have cap space to add depth pieces and already have high end young defensive talent to surround him with in Castle, Sochan, Vassell, and a higher lotto pick than Miami in this draft as well. And playing for a historically great franchise.


Also maybe Houston to play with their young exciting core (whom he works out with every summer) and playing for Udoka again (a coach he adored) and being in an already young athletic legitimate rising playoff team in the west.

I just don't see them being willing to wait and risk losing him to any multitude of other teams with better situations, etc. And while he only ages further too. And for the privilege of sucking for another season making their decision to not resign Butler look really bad.


Also they can't really tank well anyways because OKC most likely has Miami's unprotected pick in 26' ( because the 25' pick won't convey this summer). So they'll want to compete and be much better to not give up a high range lottery pick themselves to OKC in a much better loaded 26 draft.

So for all of these reasons man ( in addition to Arison and Riley not wanting to suck and wait for youth development) they'll prioritize KD and competing not just for ego/ optics, but also to mitigate the lottery value surrendered to OKC in 26 too. These reasons are why I understand your perspective but can't agree with your outcome assessment.

[Slim Charless]

You're not getting premium FRP's in a KD deal. We're ironically the cautionary tale of giving up premium draft capital for an aging player. The GS pick is fine to me but that 2031, who knows, good be bad could be good. No one is going to give you a surefire lotto pick (ie from a historically bad team) for KD at this point imo.

I don't think Miami is keen to move either their 8th pick nor Ware fwiw

Based on what legitimate information aside from you're subjective opinion?

If you don't think the Heat's front office would be willing to give up the 8th pick for KD in interest of trying to compete again and not only maximize Herros' and Bams' prime years while also trying to quickly move past the utter embarrassment of how bad they've been after deciding to trade Butler, then I just don't know what to tell you.

Do you really think that the Heat's front office wants to suck this bad? Would Riley? Would Mickey Arison? Would they be ok with looking like they lost the battle from giving up Butler and being mediocre or worse?

What rookie around the 8th pick do you really think would offer the same level of competitive impact that KD would for them?

It's just ludicrous to think they'd pivot to prioritizing being bad and rebuilding over trying to contend and look like they won the Butler fiasco by removing him. Also the GS 1st would be ok for you in a KD trade man? You do realize that pick is currently the 21st pick right?

Do you think that KDs' value is a late 1st in an average draft honestly? What do you think would happen to a GM that decided to trade KD for a late 1st as a pick value return? They'd probably be fired on the spot.

And the Miami 31' 1st might be bad?........... based off of what exactly? Look at the age of their current players. That pick being 6 yrs out currently. Adebayo would be 33 yrs old, and Herro would be 31 yrs old.

And neither might even be on their roster by then too ( aside from Ware and some young players). So how good do you think they'll actually be in 31?

Lastly, while I can agree that Ware is unlikely, I think they'd have no issues whatsoever giving up the 8th pick in an average draft for KD who's still putting up near MVP level numbers and still looks fairly unstoppable too. And knowing that he'd likely resign there.

To claim that a team wouldn't be willing to give up a premium pick ( first for KD in a trade) especially one in Miami's situation (trying to save face post Butler trade) is just wild to me man.

I don't think they are willing to give up the farm for KD. I don't think that's controversial a take at all. I also don't think they are prioritising being bad. On path to being competitive is to trade for a KD this summer with assets but another could also be 2026 free agency where they may be able to get KD without giving up anything.

And to be clear, when I say premium FRP, I'm thinking top 7. Something in the mid to late lotto would be a good FRP and anything in the 20's would just be a FRP. We might be able to squeeze a good lotto pick but I doubt the Heat would give up the 8th pick for a 37 year old KD. If that pick drops and ends up being worse than 8, they could potentially give that up over giving up Ware but I think they keep the pick if it's 8 or higher.

I don't know what the Miami 1st in 2031 is going to look like, nobody knows. They could hit over the next year couple of years with some great signings or trades and be back at it again but Miami has always been a very competitive team without long stretches (ie 3+ seasons stretches of tanking) and I would probably think they will be closer to a competitive team than some lotto team. Bam and Herro would probably be in the back end of their primes but still in their prime.

I think at the end of the day, as good as KD still is, Riley has never been a big gambler (unlike Ishbia). KD might still be elite for another couple of years, maybe into his late 30's like Bron but I don't see Riley putting his faith and the good assets he has for that pretty small window. And he'll need to extend him as well.

I think it's realistic to get Ware and a swap of their pick this year for ours this year. So we go from #31 or so to #11. Allows them to keep all of their picks in the future. They're also in line to get GSW pick this year as well.

Also they keep Jovic and J³.

[sunsfan1o1]

Based on what legitimate information aside from you're subjective opinion?

If you don't think the Heat's front office would be willing to give up the 8th pick for KD in interest of trying to compete again and not only maximize Herros' and Bams' prime years while also trying to quickly move past the utter embarrassment of how bad they've been after deciding to trade Butler, then I just don't know what to tell you.

Do you really think that the Heat's front office wants to suck this bad? Would Riley? Would Mickey Arison? Would they be ok with looking like they lost the battle from giving up Butler and being mediocre or worse?

What rookie around the 8th pick do you really think would offer the same level of competitive impact that KD would for them?

It's just ludicrous to think they'd pivot to prioritizing being bad and rebuilding over trying to contend and look like they won the Butler fiasco by removing him. Also the GS 1st would be ok for you in a KD trade man? You do realize that pick is currently the 21st pick right?

Do you think that KDs' value is a late 1st in an average draft honestly? What do you think would happen to a GM that decided to trade KD for a late 1st as a pick value return? They'd probably be fired on the spot.

And the Miami 31' 1st might be bad?........... based off of what exactly? Look at the age of their current players. That pick being 6 yrs out currently. Adebayo would be 33 yrs old, and Herro would be 31 yrs old.

And neither might even be on their roster by then too ( aside from Ware and some young players). So how good do you think they'll actually be in 31?

Lastly, while I can agree that Ware is unlikely, I think they'd have no issues whatsoever giving up the 8th pick in an average draft for KD who's still putting up near MVP level numbers and still looks fairly unstoppable too. And knowing that he'd likely resign there.

To claim that a team wouldn't be willing to give up a premium pick ( first for KD in a trade) especially one in Miami's situation (trying to save face post Butler trade) is just wild to me man.

I don't think they are willing to give up the farm for KD. I don't think that's controversial a take at all. I also don't think they are prioritising being bad. On path to being competitive is to trade for a KD this summer with assets but another could also be 2026 free agency where they may be able to get KD without giving up anything.

And to be clear, when I say premium FRP, I'm thinking top 7. Something in the mid to late lotto would be a good FRP and anything in the 20's would just be a FRP. We might be able to squeeze a good lotto pick but I doubt the Heat would give up the 8th pick for a 37 year old KD. If that pick drops and ends up being worse than 8, they could potentially give that up over giving up Ware but I think they keep the pick if it's 8 or higher.

I don't know what the Miami 1st in 2031 is going to look like, nobody knows. They could hit over the next year couple of years with some great signings or trades and be back at it again but Miami has always been a very competitive team without long stretches (ie 3+ seasons stretches of tanking) and I would probably think they will be closer to a competitive team than some lotto team. Bam and Herro would probably be in the back end of their primes but still in their prime.

I think at the end of the day, as good as KD still is, Riley has never been a big gambler (unlike Ishbia). KD might still be elite for another couple of years, maybe into his late 30's like Bron but I don't see Riley putting his faith and the good assets he has for that pretty small window. And he'll need to extend him as well.

I think it's realistic to get Ware and a swap of their pick this year for ours this year. So we go from #31 or so to #11. Allows them to keep all of their picks in the future. They're also in line to get GSW pick this year as well.

Also they keep Jovic and J³.

Just keep KD for that trash.
Riley is finished. He has not adapted to the modern era soft player mentality and refuses to give teams a fair deal.
Why they keep getting worse every year. He took garbage from the Warriors instead of Beal because he thinks he can get an elite free agent.

[Frank Lee]

Ghost and slim can tug each other’s KD deals till Oct…. But my bet for next yr is KD is extended…. Beal is waived, we retain Gillespie and Martin, and Allen/Micic/pick are traded as a package for may be Smart or somebody around the 20mill range. We also get the MLE usage by waiving Badly.

That’s going to be a more competitive squad than what any of these trades have shown. KD can still ball, and Book is better with him. This trade panic stems from not fielding the proper role players around our shynamic duo. At least the current 5+ are once again watchable.

Delaying the inevitable perhaps, yet falls into the rahrah spin Wishbia loves.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Based on what legitimate information aside from you're subjective opinion?

If you don't think the Heat's front office would be willing to give up the 8th pick for KD in interest of trying to compete again and not only maximize Herros' and Bams' prime years while also trying to quickly move past the utter embarrassment of how bad they've been after deciding to trade Butler, then I just don't know what to tell you.

Do you really think that the Heat's front office wants to suck this bad? Would Riley? Would Mickey Arison? Would they be ok with looking like they lost the battle from giving up Butler and being mediocre or worse?

What rookie around the 8th pick do you really think would offer the same level of competitive impact that KD would for them?

It's just ludicrous to think they'd pivot to prioritizing being bad and rebuilding over trying to contend and look like they won the Butler fiasco by removing him. Also the GS 1st would be ok for you in a KD trade man? You do realize that pick is currently the 21st pick right?

Do you think that KDs' value is a late 1st in an average draft honestly? What do you think would happen to a GM that decided to trade KD for a late 1st as a pick value return? They'd probably be fired on the spot.

And the Miami 31' 1st might be bad?........... based off of what exactly? Look at the age of their current players. That pick being 6 yrs out currently. Adebayo would be 33 yrs old, and Herro would be 31 yrs old.

And neither might even be on their roster by then too ( aside from Ware and some young players). So how good do you think they'll actually be in 31?

Lastly, while I can agree that Ware is unlikely, I think they'd have no issues whatsoever giving up the 8th pick in an average draft for KD who's still putting up near MVP level numbers and still looks fairly unstoppable too. And knowing that he'd likely resign there.

To claim that a team wouldn't be willing to give up a premium pick ( first for KD in a trade) especially one in Miami's situation (trying to save face post Butler trade) is just wild to me man.

I don't think they are willing to give up the farm for KD. I don't think that's controversial a take at all. I also don't think they are prioritising being bad. On path to being competitive is to trade for a KD this summer with assets but another could also be 2026 free agency where they may be able to get KD without giving up anything.

And to be clear, when I say premium FRP, I'm thinking top 7. Something in the mid to late lotto would be a good FRP and anything in the 20's would just be a FRP. We might be able to squeeze a good lotto pick but I doubt the Heat would give up the 8th pick for a 37 year old KD. If that pick drops and ends up being worse than 8, they could potentially give that up over giving up Ware but I think they keep the pick if it's 8 or higher.

I don't know what the Miami 1st in 2031 is going to look like, nobody knows. They could hit over the next year couple of years with some great signings or trades and be back at it again but Miami has always been a very competitive team without long stretches (ie 3+ seasons stretches of tanking) and I would probably think they will be closer to a competitive team than some lotto team. Bam and Herro would probably be in the back end of their primes but still in their prime.

I think at the end of the day, as good as KD still is, Riley has never been a big gambler (unlike Ishbia). KD might still be elite for another couple of years, maybe into his late 30's like Bron but I don't see Riley putting his faith and the good assets he has for that pretty small window. And he'll need to extend him as well.

I think it's realistic to get Ware and a swap of their pick this year for ours this year. So we go from #31 or so to #11. Allows them to keep all of their picks in the future. They're also in line to get GSW pick this year as well.

Also they keep Jovic and J³.

I'd do that trade for their MIA 25' 1st (currently the 8th pick) as long as Ware is coming back; the value is definitely there. Although I don't think they'd actually be willing to trade Ware, for my part, IF Ware is not coming back, then that's huge, and the value isn't remotely close. So that value will have to be made up by them surrendering BOTH their own 25' 1st this year (the 8th pick) and the GS 25' 1st.

Riley and Arison don't care at all about picks because Riley and Arison would rather compete! Especially after the egg on their face from them trading Butler and now missing the playoffs. Getting KD helps them get right back into the playoffs, not only moving past that embarrassing decisional outcome but also mitigating the value they'll give up from the unprotected MIA 26' 1st that OKC now will get because Miami's 25 1st didn't/ won't convey.

Also, I'd likely take that 8th pick and flip it back to Brooklyn for the 19th, 26th, and 35th picks. Or to Orlando for the 15th, 25th, and 42nd picks. Squeeze as much talent out of this draft as possible from a KD move. Overall, though, of the two, I'd probably do the Orlando trade to specifically take:

15- Egor Demin. 6'9 PG- 6'9 Giddey/ Less creative Rubio?
25- Carter Bryant. 6'9 SF/PF- PJ Washington/ better shot-blocking Richard Jefferson.
29- Alex Condon. 6'11 PF - Isiah Hartenstein/ rich mans' Drew Eubanks.
54- Maxime Raynaud. 7'1 PF/C - Pau Gasol.
Unrestrictd two way contracts (3 allowed)

1- Vladislav Goldin (Michigan) 7'1 Ivaca Zubac.
2- John Tonje (Wisconsin) 6'6 220 lb Devin Booker OR Cedric Coward (Washington State) a 6'6 205 lb Colin Sexton with better defense/ better shooting Marcus Smart?
3- Donnie Freeman (Syracuse) a 6'10 dollar store KD/ poor mans' Chris Bosch OR David N'Guessan (K state) 6'9 Jaden Mcdaniels.




Booker/ Beal/ Dunn/ Bol Bol / Richards.
Gillespie/ Allen/ O'neale/ Raynaud/ Ighodaro.
Demin/ FA / Bryant/ Condon/ Goldin.

[Saberestar]

Ghost and slim can tug each other’s KD deals till Oct…. But my bet for next yr is KD is extended…. Beal is waived, we retain Gillespie and Martin, and Allen/Micic/pick are traded as a package for may be Smart or somebody around the 20mill range. We also get the MLE usage by waiving Badly.

That’s going to be a more competitive squad than what any of these trades have shown. KD can still ball, and Book is better with him. This trade panic stems from not fielding the proper role players around our shynamic duo. At least the current 5+ are once again watchable.

Delaying the inevitable perhaps, yet falls into the rahrah spin Wishbia loves.

I would love those offseason moves.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Ghost and slim can tug each other’s KD deals till Oct…. But my bet for next yr is KD is extended…. Beal is waived, we retain Gillespie and Martin, and Allen/Micic/pick are traded as a package for may be Smart or somebody around the 20mill range. We also get the MLE usage by waiving Badly.

That’s going to be a more competitive squad than what any of these trades have shown. KD can still ball, and Book is better with him. This trade panic stems from not fielding the proper role players around our shynamic duo. At least the current 5+ are once again watchable.

Delaying the inevitable perhaps, yet falls into the rahrah spin Wishbia loves.

Frank? I'm sorry our trade discussions are so uncomfortable for you man! causing you distress and resulting in you making the face pictured above. Maybe drink some Pepto Bismal or take some Tums before choosing to read them?

Also, those are definitely interesting ideas!
But do you really believe we'd waive Beal just to have close to 20 million on our books, tying up cap flexibility for multiple years? And Allen would get traded for Smart or someone like him for 20 million? Obviously, Washington wouldn't have any interest in trading for Allen when they already have Kispert, Bey, George, and Jones on cheaper deals and who are younger and fit their building timeline better. Who would you think we'd target using Allen/ Micic etc, then if not Smart? Lastly, I'm not sure (IF we're keeping KD) that Ishbia wouldn't just decline Martin and Micic and make other moves to try to still get under the 2nd apron.

But I'd be significantly surprised if Beal got waived/ stretched for that much remaining money because it'd tie up a significant chunk of cap space for the next 5 years (around $22 million) if stretched for 5 years, but $ 36 million if stretched for 3 yrs. And yes, it is delaying the inevitable and ultimately only going to result in further prolonging our inevitable rebuild much longer due to holding our last big trade chip and suffering significant asset depreciation. And then heading into a rebuild with no legitimate picks or young talent to expedite the rebuild much quicker. But hey.......why not right?

[BobbieL]

Ghost and slim can tug each other’s KD deals till Oct…. But my bet for next yr is KD is extended…. Beal is waived, we retain Gillespie and Martin, and Allen/Micic/pick are traded as a package for may be Smart or somebody around the 20mill range. We also get the MLE usage by waiving Badly.

That’s going to be a more competitive squad than what any of these trades have shown. KD can still ball, and Book is better with him. This trade panic stems from not fielding the proper role players around our shynamic duo. At least the current 5+ are once again watchable.

Delaying the inevitable perhaps, yet falls into the rahrah spin Wishbia loves.

woohoo - 8th seed, maybe the 7th seed!!

Plus how can the Suns package players if they are over the second apron? Don't they need to waive Micic and Martin to get closer to the second aprong.

Unless with the new CBA, waiving a player doesn't count against the cap

[BobbieL]

Bobby Marks

To no surprise, NBA teams were notified that the salary cap in 2025-26 is expected to increase 10% from this past season, sources tell ESPN.

The current projection is the same that were given to teams in the offseason.

Salary cap: $154.6M
Luxury tax: $187.9M
First apron: $195.9M
Second apron: $207.8M

The salary cap this current season is $140.6M.

The maximum growth in the cap will allow teams more flexibility to work around the apron rules.

As the cap grows, so does the apron level.

We witnessed a bit of a perfect storm last offseason with the cap only growing 3.4%, resulting in some teams restricted in the offseason.

Great news to confirm that the cap will grow that much for next season.

Waiving and stretching Beal makes more sense if we can't find any taker or he plays hardball with the FO.

waiving and stretching Beal makes no sense - its wasting cap space for 5 years instead of two years

The Suns are 5.5 games out of the 8th spot and a half game ahead of a Mavericks team that has lost the best players on the roster
The Suns are NOT a good team and will get smoked if they some how win the 9/10 game, beat the Clips or Twolves -- by OKC

The Suns truly would be better off not making the playoffs because Ishbia needs to face reality and not some false hope

[thamadkant]

Ghost and slim can tug each other’s KD deals till Oct…. But my bet for next yr is KD is extended…. Beal is waived, we retain Gillespie and Martin, and Allen/Micic/pick are traded as a package for may be Smart or somebody around the 20mill range. We also get the MLE usage by waiving Badly.

That’s going to be a more competitive squad than what any of these trades have shown. KD can still ball, and Book is better with him. This trade panic stems from not fielding the proper role players around our shynamic duo. At least the current 5+ are once again watchable.

Delaying the inevitable perhaps, yet falls into the rahrah spin Wishbia loves.

Sorry but horrible scenario... which means it is possible and likely an Ishiba move to salvage his failed vision.

Beal is not the issue. He is willing to come off the bench and it has led to good Suns resurgence as well... although short and brief.

The recent Suns win streak of 3, beating teams with missing players or in a slump... is false gold, but enough to convince a horrible front office and a deluded owner.

Sitting Grayson Allen out and putting Dunn in with a lot of minutes has helped the energy and effort and this is the main reason Suns have won against some playoff teams (who were missing players or in a slump).

It is worth reminding everyone that a healthy or near full Suns team lost to teams with less than 20 wins.


Stretching Beal by waiving him is certainly an Ishiba move..... which will enable Beal to sign with a Suns rival like the Lakers, Mavericks, Thunder, Rockets... which also means Rockets and Thunder interest trading for KD, Booker are affected, because they get a pretty good player unhealthy albeit in Beal.

And in the case Suns make the playoffs, Thunder will sweep them in 4.... continuing the pattern of Suns getting worse every year while making the playoffs, since their Finals appearance.... its just a typical Suns thing.

[BobbieL]

Ghost and slim can tug each other’s KD deals till Oct…. But my bet for next yr is KD is extended…. Beal is waived, we retain Gillespie and Martin, and Allen/Micic/pick are traded as a package for may be Smart or somebody around the 20mill range. We also get the MLE usage by waiving Badly.

That’s going to be a more competitive squad than what any of these trades have shown. KD can still ball, and Book is better with him. This trade panic stems from not fielding the proper role players around our shynamic duo. At least the current 5+ are once again watchable.

Delaying the inevitable perhaps, yet falls into the rahrah spin Wishbia loves.

Sorry but horrible scenario... which means it is possible and likely an Ishiba move to salvage his failed vision.

Beal is not the issue. He is willing to come off the bench and it has led to good Suns resurgence as well... although short and brief.

The recent Suns win streak of 3, beating teams with missing players or in a slump... is false gold, but enough to convince a horrible front office and a deluded owner.

Sitting Grayson Allen out and putting Dunn in with a lot of minutes has helped the energy and effort and this is the main reason Suns have won against some playoff teams (who were missing players or in a slump).

It is worth reminding everyone that a healthy or near full Suns team lost to teams with less than 20 wins.


Stretching Beal by waiving him is certainly an Ishiba move..... which will enable Beal to sign with a Suns rival like the Lakers, Mavericks, Thunder, Rockets... which also means Rockets and Thunder interest trading for KD, Booker are affected, because they get a pretty good player unhealthy albeit in Beal.

And in the case Suns make the playoffs, Thunder will sweep them in 4.... continuing the pattern of Suns getting worse every year while making the playoffs, since their Finals appearance.... its just a typical Suns thing.

bingo! winner winner chicken dinner

I am not even sure the Suns would win the 9/10 game -- these wins have been fools gold. And they are barely ahead of the Mavericks

[Slim Charless]

I don't think they are willing to give up the farm for KD. I don't think that's controversial a take at all. I also don't think they are prioritising being bad. On path to being competitive is to trade for a KD this summer with assets but another could also be 2026 free agency where they may be able to get KD without giving up anything.

And to be clear, when I say premium FRP, I'm thinking top 7. Something in the mid to late lotto would be a good FRP and anything in the 20's would just be a FRP. We might be able to squeeze a good lotto pick but I doubt the Heat would give up the 8th pick for a 37 year old KD. If that pick drops and ends up being worse than 8, they could potentially give that up over giving up Ware but I think they keep the pick if it's 8 or higher.

I don't know what the Miami 1st in 2031 is going to look like, nobody knows. They could hit over the next year couple of years with some great signings or trades and be back at it again but Miami has always been a very competitive team without long stretches (ie 3+ seasons stretches of tanking) and I would probably think they will be closer to a competitive team than some lotto team. Bam and Herro would probably be in the back end of their primes but still in their prime.

I think at the end of the day, as good as KD still is, Riley has never been a big gambler (unlike Ishbia). KD might still be elite for another couple of years, maybe into his late 30's like Bron but I don't see Riley putting his faith and the good assets he has for that pretty small window. And he'll need to extend him as well.

I think it's realistic to get Ware and a swap of their pick this year for ours this year. So we go from #31 or so to #11. Allows them to keep all of their picks in the future. They're also in line to get GSW pick this year as well.

Also they keep Jovic and J³.

I'd do that trade for their MIA 25' 1st (currently the 8th pick) as long as Ware is coming back; the value is definitely there. Although I don't think they'd actually be willing to trade Ware, for my part, IF Ware is not coming back, then that's huge, and the value isn't remotely close. So that value will have to be made up by them surrendering BOTH their own 25' 1st this year (the 8th pick) and the GS 25' 1st.

Riley and Arison don't care at all about picks because Riley and Arison would rather compete! Especially after the egg on their face from them trading Butler and now missing the playoffs. Getting KD helps them get right back into the playoffs, not only moving past that embarrassing decisional outcome but also mitigating the value they'll give up from the unprotected MIA 26' 1st that OKC now will get because Miami's 25 1st didn't/ won't convey.

Also, I'd likely take that 8th pick and flip it back to Brooklyn for the 19th, 26th, and 35th picks. Or to Orlando for the 15th, 25th, and 42nd picks. Squeeze as much talent out of this draft as possible from a KD move. Overall, though, of the two, I'd probably do the Orlando trade to specifically take:

15- Egor Demin. 6'9 PG- 6'9 Giddey/ Less creative Rubio?
25- Carter Bryant. 6'9 SF/PF- PJ Washington/ better shot-blocking Richard Jefferson.
29- Alex Condon. 6'11 PF - Isiah Hartenstein/ rich mans' Drew Eubanks.
54- Maxime Raynaud. 7'1 PF/C - Pau Gasol.
Unrestrictd two way contracts (3 allowed)

1- Vladislav Goldin (Michigan) 7'1 Ivaca Zubac.
2- John Tonje (Wisconsin) 6'6 220 lb Devin Booker OR Cedric Coward (Washington State) a 6'6 205 lb Colin Sexton with better defense/ better shooting Marcus Smart?
3- Donnie Freeman (Syracuse) a 6'10 dollar store KD/ poor mans' Chris Bosch OR David N'Guessan (K state) 6'9 Jaden Mcdaniels.




Booker/ Beal/ Dunn/ Bol Bol / Richards.
Gillespie/ Allen/ O'neale/ Raynaud/ Ighodaro.
Demin/ FA / Bryant/ Condon/ Goldin.

Well, I was looking at prospects in that range and discovered something.....

What's your opinion on Jase Richardson? Cause that is who will be our pick if we get anywhere within range I'll bet. Not sure if you knew this but Jason Richardson is his dad....the same Jason Richarson who played at Michigan State. That team won a national title.

Guess who else was on that team? I'll give you 1 guess.

There's no way Ishbia passes up a chance to draft his old teammates son-a teammate he won a chip with. Hell, we might trade up and grab Jase.

[Slim Charless]

BTW you guys are gonna get sick of me typing his name.

I refuse to believe until proven otherwise that Ish won't be pushing to get this kid. I will be basing all future draft ideas for this one coming up that Ish uses resources to draft his old teammate's kid. He's too much of a homer and wants those old MI guys around. Hell, he almost hired Isiah Thomas to be our GM-and they never even played together. Jason Richardson won a **** national title in 2000 with Ishbia. The fact that Jase "CAN" play some PG is even more so of a treat for him as it's technically a need.

There's a 0.00 percent chance that Ishbia doesn't wanna draft this kid. Maybe it's better we don't get a top 5 pick and have to watch us pass up Harper or Ace for Richardson's son.

[Sunsdeuce]

Welp back to reality. This team goes up against quality team and the effort completely disappears and the team looks lost.

[BobbieL]

Welp back to reality. This team goes up against quality team and the effort completely disappears and the team looks lost.

Hence. Blow it up

[Sunsdeuce]

Welp back to reality. This team goes up against quality team and the effort completely disappears and the team looks lost.

Hence. Blow it up

I just find it funny how so many posted about how this team figured it all out. And that Bradley Beal was the issue. And Ryan Dunn was the solution. And Gillespie was the PG solution. Even Dan Bickley was buying into the wins and I was laughing every time he said this team finally turned it around when he completely ignored the competition.

When in fact, the reality was, this Suns team just went up against bad and struggling teams and won a few games. The whole team is the issue. This team is no threat to any team in the playoffs.

[Frank Lee]

I don’t need to defend what I think Wishbia will do. He’s not into a rebuild. I think he’ll do everything possible to keep KD, but if a sweet deal comes forward, he could pull the trigger if ok with KD. We are pretty much screwed into mediocrity either way.

As far as waiving Beal, I assume it would put us under the second apron… no need for it if not.

[BobbieL]

Welp back to reality. This team goes up against quality team and the effort completely disappears and the team looks lost.

Hence. Blow it up

I just find it funny how so many posted about how this team figured it all out. And that Bradley Beal was the issue. And Ryan Dunn was the solution. And Gillespie was the PG solution. Even Dan Bickley was buying into the wins and I was laughing every time he said this team finally turned it around when he completely ignored the competition.

When in fact, the reality was, this Suns team just went up against bad and struggling teams and won a few games. The whole team is the issue. This team is no threat to any team in the playoffs.

Right! They will be tied with the Mavs and they are playing back ups.

They are who they are

[KLEON]

Question for you guys. With the beef with LBJ and SAS, do you think that LBJ is copying John Cena's heel turn? They both in the game for 20 plus years being face of their sport but in the same time are both polarizing stars who got sick of the hate they faced for years (btw some of the hate was deserved) and at the end of their careers decides to trash everybody especially the haters. BTW LBJ was one of the celebs that commented on Cena's heel turn and him being on McAfee's show really makes me wonder if he's copying Cena.

[sunsbg]

Welp back to reality. This team goes up against quality team and the effort completely disappears and the team looks lost.

Hence. Blow it up

I just find it funny how so many posted about how this team figured it all out. And that Bradley Beal was the issue. And Ryan Dunn was the solution. And Gillespie was the PG solution. Even Dan Bickley was buying into the wins and I was laughing every time he said this team finally turned it around when he completely ignored the competition.

When in fact, the reality was, this Suns team just went up against bad and struggling teams and won a few games. The whole team is the issue. This team is no threat to any team in the playoffs.

Yeah it's funny. Blazers had a 10 game win streak or something. I guess they were true contenders back then too. It's good Suns started playing hard, but it's only a few regular season wins. It's still the same flawed team.