PG: Clippers vs. Knicks: Let the Bodies Hit the Floor

[Jalen Bluntson]

In what world does Kolek/Shamet/Hart/Precious/Mitch make any sense? This was the lineup when Hart got his 3rd foul. Thibs put Mikal in as a result but, he was gonna run that lineup. The man doesn't trust his bench then suddenly they all play together. With zero consistency. I know the bench aren't world beaters. That's why you stagger them with the starters. Is it really that complicated?

[Adelheid]

that is why alot of peeps here are clamoring some starters be moved to come off the bench

[prophet_of_rage]

Hart very ineffective. 3 PT shooting once again an issue. That run in the 3rd had a couple of blown coverages from Hart.

Hart was famously supposed to work on shooting last summer with his buddy JJ Redick. Obviously didn't happen after JJ got the Lakers job. But how did he not get with a shooting specialist to work on it? If he came back from the summer as an average shooter even, it would've made a huge difference. Teams sagging off him kills the offense

It isn't his ability. It's his mentality. He doesn't want to shoot. He doesn't want to think. That's why he excels in transition but struggles in the half court.

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[GettinitDone]

Thibs is awful. We should be right up there with the big three teams (OKC, BOS, CLE) or just a hair below. Right now, there’s a wide chasm between us and them… that’s on the coach. He needs a Thibs roster. A treadmill pretender type team. He’s out of his league with this roster.

Landry Shamet, precious, cam payne as 3 of your major bench pieces and compare that bench to the cavs talent and c’s talent is just flat out foolish. The knicks are right where they should be, the 3rd seed in the east. They are not as good as the champs and cleveland is having an incredible regular season, pat riley, red aeurbach, phil jackson all would have this roster in the same exact spot. This is not a 60 win roster, if you believe that you are on something

You just disproved your own logic by bringing up the Cavs, they were 4th in the East in both 2 previous seasons (2022-23 and 2023-24), on the verge of blowing it up, but hired a new coach, same roster/ key players, and they're 1st this season.

Like the Cavs proved, coach is everything!

[prophet_of_rage]

Hart very ineffective. 3 PT shooting once again an issue. That run in the 3rd had a couple of blown coverages from Hart.

Hart, interestingly, lead the Knicks in plus/minus tonight.

Which suggests +/- isn't completely reliable.

Never has been. You can completely ride the coattails of other players and get good rating. It makes sense for hockey with its lineup shifts. Never made sense for basketball.


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[snadler]

Thibs is awful. We should be right up there with the big three teams (OKC, BOS, CLE) or just a hair below. Right now, there’s a wide chasm between us and them… that’s on the coach. He needs a Thibs roster. A treadmill pretender type team. He’s out of his league with this roster.

Landry Shamet, precious, cam payne as 3 of your major bench pieces and compare that bench to the cavs talent and c’s talent is just flat out foolish. The knicks are right where they should be, the 3rd seed in the east. They are not as good as the champs and cleveland is having an incredible regular season, pat riley, red aeurbach, phil jackson all would have this roster in the same exact spot. This is not a 60 win roster, if you believe that you are on something

You just disproved your own logic by bringing up the Cavs, they were 4th in the East in both 2 previous seasons (2022-23 and 2023-24), on the verge of blowing it up, but hired a new coach, same roster/ key players, and they're 1st this season.

Like the Cavs proved, coach is everything!

Not accurate, they added Hunter, also younger players like garland and mobley have taken another leap, i don’t put so much on the coach, more on the players development. Plus as you just pointed out they have had the continuity of playing together for 2 previous seasons, this is year 3, knicks aren’t even on year 1. Nice try, but not going to work

[Iron Mantis]

We look like top-tier against scrubs and like scrubs against top-tier. I don't think it's our personnel - on paper this is the best team we have had since the 70's, it's our coach.

It's obvious what/who the main issue is.

Only ones who refuse to admit it are folks who are angry because their fav players were traded for vastly superior upgrades.

[TKKnicks1]

10 games left. I say we go 4-6 and miss the 50 win mark. We still got CLE twice and BOS once. It also depends on when JB comes back.

[snadler]

10 games left. I say we go 4-6 and miss the 50 win mark. We still got CLE twice and BOS once. It also depends on when JB comes back.

And be the 3rd seed.. so what exactly is the difference if they win 49 or 50?

[Jalen Bluntson]

Landry Shamet, precious, cam payne as 3 of your major bench pieces and compare that bench to the cavs talent and c’s talent is just flat out foolish. The knicks are right where they should be, the 3rd seed in the east. They are not as good as the champs and cleveland is having an incredible regular season, pat riley, red aeurbach, phil jackson all would have this roster in the same exact spot. This is not a 60 win roster, if you believe that you are on something

You just disproved your own logic by bringing up the Cavs, they were 4th in the East in both 2 previous seasons (2022-23 and 2023-24), on the verge of blowing it up, but hired a new coach, same roster/ key players, and they're 1st this season.

Like the Cavs proved, coach is everything!

Not accurate, they added Hunter, also younger players like garland and mobley have taken another leap, i don’t put so much on the coach, more on the players development. Plus as you just pointed out they have had the continuity of playing together for 2 previous seasons, this is year 3, knicks aren’t even on year 1. Nice try, but not going to work

So you're saying if we fall short this year and next, then we fire the coach? They added Hunter to the best team in the league. He isn't responsible for their success at all.

[god shammgod]

10 games left. I say we go 4-6 and miss the 50 win mark. We still got CLE twice and BOS once. It also depends on when JB comes back.

And be the 3rd seed.. so what exactly is the difference if they win 49 or 50?

there's a slight chance they could fall to 4. which is better for them.

[Iron Mantis]

Landry Shamet, precious, cam payne as 3 of your major bench pieces and compare that bench to the cavs talent and c’s talent is just flat out foolish. The knicks are right where they should be, the 3rd seed in the east. They are not as good as the champs and cleveland is having an incredible regular season, pat riley, red aeurbach, phil jackson all would have this roster in the same exact spot. This is not a 60 win roster, if you believe that you are on something

You just disproved your own logic by bringing up the Cavs, they were 4th in the East in both 2 previous seasons (2022-23 and 2023-24), on the verge of blowing it up, but hired a new coach, same roster/ key players, and they're 1st this season.

Like the Cavs proved, coach is everything!

Not accurate, they added Hunter, also younger players like garland and mobley have taken another leap, i don’t put so much on the coach, more on the players development. Plus as you just pointed out they have had the continuity of playing together for 2 previous seasons, this is year 3, knicks aren’t even on year 1. Nice try, but not going to work

Hard for draft picks to develop and take "leaps" if the coach mismanages your development, gives up on you after a few years, then gets you traded.....

[Fury]

Landry Shamet, precious, cam payne as 3 of your major bench pieces and compare that bench to the cavs talent and c’s talent is just flat out foolish. The knicks are right where they should be, the 3rd seed in the east. They are not as good as the champs and cleveland is having an incredible regular season, pat riley, red aeurbach, phil jackson all would have this roster in the same exact spot. This is not a 60 win roster, if you believe that you are on something

You just disproved your own logic by bringing up the Cavs, they were 4th in the East in both 2 previous seasons (2022-23 and 2023-24), on the verge of blowing it up, but hired a new coach, same roster/ key players, and they're 1st this season.

Like the Cavs proved, coach is everything!

Not accurate, they added Hunter, also younger players like garland and mobley have taken another leap, i don’t put so much on the coach, more on the players development. Plus as you just pointed out they have had the continuity of playing together for 2 previous seasons, this is year 3, knicks aren’t even on year 1. Nice try, but not going to work

Evan Mobley's leap is literally taking more 3s. That's it. Same rebounds, same assists. FG% is lower cause he's taking more 3s.

And they just added Hunter.

[GettinitDone]

In what world does Kolek/Shamet/Hart/Precious/Mitch make any sense? This was the lineup when Hart got his 3rd foul. Thibs put Mikal in as a result but, he was gonna run that lineup. The man doesn't trust his bench then suddenly they all play together. With zero consistency. I know the bench aren't world beaters. That's why you stagger them with the starters. Is it really that complicated?

lmao exactly my thoughts, suddenly the bench played together... this is why I absolutely can't understand why everyone around the L continues to worship him as "one of the greatest bball minds ever", like it's taboo or something to say he is stupid (to be plain, he is), as if their loved ones are held at gunpoint and they'd die if Thibs is spoken ill of

Has no basic understanding of fatigue, value of bench, no in game adjustments, ****/ drop coverage defense in 3pt era, boring/ predictable offense, same substitution patterns

All that knowledge he doesn't put it into practice

[DOT]

Fun fact

Hart has a Net rating of +8.2 in minutes played with KAT

In minutes played with Precious he's a -2.6

With Mitch he's a -5.4

And he was also a net negative with Sims and Hukporti too

Everyone else who he's played more than 10 minutes with, he has a positive Net

Dude should not be on the court if we don't have a floor spacer at the 5.

[Fury]

Look, I think Thibs is a great coach. He does develop players, it just takes time, gaining trust in practice, and then eventually getting the minutes. Players play hard for him because he has long leashes. He lets you play through **** and players appreciate that.

But with this roster, the way it's set up, we may need a different coach. It's not an offense that's built around the defensive center. It's built around two offensive weapons, who aren't great defenders. Yes, the offense was top 5 early on, but they still haven't maximized their potential. The difference between 1 and 5 is a big difference, especially when trying to compete for a title and when the defense isn't great.

[Jalen Bluntson]

In what world does Kolek/Shamet/Hart/Precious/Mitch make any sense? This was the lineup when Hart got his 3rd foul. Thibs put Mikal in as a result but, he was gonna run that lineup. The man doesn't trust his bench then suddenly they all play together. With zero consistency. I know the bench aren't world beaters. That's why you stagger them with the starters. Is it really that complicated?

lmao exactly my thoughts, suddenly the bench played together... this is why I absolutely can't understand why everyone around the L continues to worship him as "one of the greatest bball minds ever", like it's taboo or something to say he is stupid (to be plain, he is), as if their loved ones are held at gunpoint and they'd die if Thibs is spoken ill of

Has no basic understanding of fatigue, value of bench, no in game adjustments, ****/ drop coverage defense in 3pt era, boring/ predictable offense, same substitution patterns

All that knowledge he doesn't put it into practice

It just doesn't add up. He flat out refuses to play the bench or go deeper than 8 players most nights. A 9 man rotation consists of one player getting a random 6-9 minutes. He shortens the rotation when we have an injury. Then we have multiple injuries and he floods the court with bench players who haven't really played much together or at all this season.

Kolek getting benched for Delon? Really? Way to go Thibs. Kid is getting some burn and you pull the plug on him? Was Kolek the problem last night? I didn't see that at all. It didn't make any sense. Why go with Wright? He hasn't played point guard in years and hasn't played at all for us. This is how you give him minutes? What's the logic? It's like he's spiteful. You want me to play the bench more? Blah! Here's what I'm gonna do. Happy now?

I don't think Thibs is currently keeping us from winning a title. I just think he's not going to help us get one unless we get three more starters to come off the bench. They all have. be injury proof two way studs like every other bench in the league has except for us. Am I right?

[j4remi]

Way too much complaining for a game with a depleted team playing on the second night of a back-to-back that lost another player in the first half.

Mitch is still working back. Kolek has barely played up to this point. KAT and OG played really well, Mikal wasn't bad, and the frontcourt had spacing issues any time KAT sat (that's one part of the roster I hope Rose addresses in the offseason).

It's the three-point defense that worries me. It doesn't hold up unless everyone is sharp, and staying sharp on tired legs isn't easy. We've seen the 3-point D collapse in fourth quarters because of this, and it fades even faster on the second night of a back-to-back...or during a long road trip, or when the rotation switches and has to establish chemistry again. For someone who designed an offense to generate corner threes, Thibs' scheme feels like it dares opponents to make corner kickouts.

[snadler]

In what world does Kolek/Shamet/Hart/Precious/Mitch make any sense? This was the lineup when Hart got his 3rd foul. Thibs put Mikal in as a result but, he was gonna run that lineup. The man doesn't trust his bench then suddenly they all play together. With zero consistency. I know the bench aren't world beaters. That's why you stagger them with the starters. Is it really that complicated?

lmao exactly my thoughts, suddenly the bench played together... this is why I absolutely can't understand why everyone around the L continues to worship him as "one of the greatest bball minds ever", like it's taboo or something to say he is stupid (to be plain, he is), as if their loved ones are held at gunpoint and they'd die if Thibs is spoken ill of

Has no basic understanding of fatigue, value of bench, no in game adjustments, ****/ drop coverage defense in 3pt era, boring/ predictable offense, same substitution patterns

All that knowledge he doesn't put it into practice

It just doesn't add up. He flat out refuses to play the bench or go deeper than 8 players most nights. A 9 man rotation consists of one player getting a random 6-9 minutes. He shortens the rotation when we have an injury. Then we have multiple injuries and he floods the court with bench players who haven't really played much together or at all this season.

Kolek getting benched for Delon? Really? Way to go Thibs. Kid is getting some burn and you pull the plug on him? Was Kolek the problem last night? I didn't see that at all. It didn't make any sense. Why go with Wright? He hasn't played point guard in years and hasn't played at all for us. This is how you give him minutes? What's the logic? It's like he's spiteful. You want me to play the bench more? Blah! Here's what I'm gonna do. Happy now?

I don't think Thibs is currently keeping us from winning a title. I just think he's not going to help us get one unless we get three more starters to come off the bench. They all have. be injury proof two way studs like every other bench in the league has except for us. Am I right?

I keep seeing this post and I’m curious who exactly you want Thibs playing more? Their bench is horrible, if you think thibs is purposely keeping players who can help and be productive out of spite, thats ridiculous. I love those fans that assume know more than not just thibs but all the assistants. These coaches see what these “bench” guys are doing in practice and I can guarantee you they know more than any of us.

[TKKnicks1]

In what world does Kolek/Shamet/Hart/Precious/Mitch make any sense? This was the lineup when Hart got his 3rd foul. Thibs put Mikal in as a result but, he was gonna run that lineup. The man doesn't trust his bench then suddenly they all play together. With zero consistency. I know the bench aren't world beaters. That's why you stagger them with the starters. Is it really that complicated?

Mikal went on to wreck havoc in this lineup when he was put in. Which goes back to what a lot of us have been saying Mikal should be playing with the 2nd unit and be the focal point of the offense. Thibs doesn't have the capacity nor the ability to be the least bit creative. This is just common sense rotations.