Question for the "Draft Lottery is Rigged" Crowd

[sp6r=underrated]

This question is specifically for the folks who believe the Lottery is rigged.

What would the NBA have to do for you to believe the Lottery is legitimate?

[NBA_is_cringe]

show them picking it. like lottery balls or even a guy picking pieces of paper out of a bucket. no reason to not do this except because its obviously rigged

[Blacksheep25]

People who believe in many conspiracy theories have a mental illness. Nothing short of them picking the balls out themselves would convince them.

[VFX]

This question is specifically for the folks who believe the Lottery is rigged.

What would the NBA have to do for you to believe the Lottery is legitimate?

I wouldnt say the draft is necessarily "rigged".

HOWEVER, Dallas sits at a 1.3% chance to win the #1 pick.

After the whole Doncic debacle, and their GM choosing specifically LA as the team to send him, I would 100% believe it was rigged should they magically land Cooper Flagg.

This is similar to New Orleans trading away Anthony Davis and then them winning the Zion Williamson lottery with 6% chance.

The better question is how much happenstance has to take place for non-believers to buy into the idea that it is absolutely rigged.

[Quattro]

Why did the biggest market in the NBA suck for 2 decades? Can any of the conspiracy theorists answer that one?

[sp6r=underrated]

Why did the biggest market in the NBA suck for 2 decades? Can any of the conspiracy theorists answer that one?

Yup. I always have 2 questions for "NBA is rigged" crowd.
1. Why did the NBA allow NYC's team to suck for decades?
2. Why did the NBA hand 3 can't miss HOFers to the San Antonio Spurs who have 0 national profile?

[VFX]

Why did the biggest market in the NBA suck for 2 decades? Can any of the conspiracy theorists answer that one?

Do you believe multi billion dollar businesses arent above bending the rules to get better outcomes for their bottom line?

[mastermixer]

show them picking it. like lottery balls or even a guy picking pieces of paper out of a bucket. no reason to not do this except because its obviously rigged

Watch on YouTube

Enjoy

[sp6r=underrated]

Why did the biggest market in the NBA suck for 2 decades? Can any of the conspiracy theorists answer that one?

Do you believe multi billion dollar businesses arent above bending the rules to get better outcomes for their bottom line?

That doesn't answer his question. If the NBA fixes things, why did they allow the Knicks to be the NBA's worst team for twenty years.

NYC has two team and both rank in the bottom 5 in RS W%. Another large city (DC) is in the bottom 5.

Code: Select all

Rk    From    To        Team    Lg    W    L    W/L%
1   2000-01   2019-20   NYK   NBA   643   965   .400
2   2000-01   2019-20   CHO   NBA   598   845   .414
3   2000-01   2019-20   MIN   NBA   668   938   .416
4   2000-01   2019-20   WAS   NBA   686   928   .425
5   2000-01   2019-20   BRK   NBA   709   905   .439

The Knicks played the fewest playoff games over this span.

Code: Select all

Rk    From    To       Team    Lg    G    W    L    W/L%
1   2000-01   2012-13   NYK   NBA   30    9   21   .300
2   2000-01   2015-16   CHO   NBA   34   13   21   .382
3   2000-01   2017-18   MIN   NBA   36   14   22   .389
4   2002-03   2017-18   NOP   NBA   49   20   29   .408
5   2004-05   2017-18   WAS   NBA   66   29   37   .439

Do you believe multi billion dollar businesses arent above bending the rules to get better outcomes for their bottom line?

As to your question,
1. I do think it is possible for a company to bend the rules to make $ but the NBA is a cartel of 30 different companies. You have to believe that most members of the cartel are happy screwing themselves over.
2. If there is a conspiracy, it is amazing it has never leaked. The White House couldn't keep Watergate a secret from the Washington Post but 30 separate companies can engage in a decade long conspiracy without reporters finding out hits me as very unlikely.

And the NBA data just isn't supportive of a conspiracy. Outside the Lakers decades long success, there really isn't much coorelation between market size and success.

The Lakers is very easy to explain. Players do want to play in Los Angeles. That is a real competitive advantage. It is also unfixable without utterly breaking the players union. Unlike the Knicks the Lakers have generally had good management, for decades they had Jerry West who was one of the best GMs in history. Then Lebron decided he wanted to go to LA in 2019 saving the franchise after a half decade a terrible basketball.

Good management and players wanting to play in LA seems much more likely than a shadowy group of owners deciding to make the Lakers perpetual contenders.

[Nate505]

For some people there's nothing they could do.

I'd like to see the actual process myself. It would add more transparency to it, but whatever, I never thought it was rigged before. The luck the Jazz have had in it the few times they've had good shots is irritating to me, but it's a lottery. Luck is all there is.

[Bornstellar]

The fact that the most hyped prospect since LeBron went to a rinky dink small market city like San Antonio should prove it's not rigged. Yet somehow plenty of dummies think the opposite because the Spurs won the lottery in 97 and 87. Which makes zero sense but whatever

[Bornstellar]

For some people there's nothing they could do.

I'd like to see the actual process myself. It would add more transparency to it, but whatever, I never thought it was rigged before. The luck the Jazz have had in it the few times they've had good shots is irritating to me, but it's a lottery. Luck is all there is.

You realize the actual lottery is recorded and aired right? You can actually watch video of them sitting in that room while they're doing the lottery before the results are announced. That looks pretty transparent to me. A poster already posted it in this thread

[VFX]

Why did the biggest market in the NBA suck for 2 decades? Can any of the conspiracy theorists answer that one?

Do you believe multi billion dollar businesses arent above bending the rules to get better outcomes for their bottom line?

That doesn't answer his question. If the NBA fixes things, why did they allow the Knicks to be the NBA's worst team for twenty years.

NYC has two team and both rank in the bottom 5 in RS W%. Another large city (DC) is in the bottom 5.

Code: Select all

Rk    From    To        Team    Lg    W    L    W/L%
1   2000-01   2019-20   NYK   NBA   643   965   .400
2   2000-01   2019-20   CHO   NBA   598   845   .414
3   2000-01   2019-20   MIN   NBA   668   938   .416
4   2000-01   2019-20   WAS   NBA   686   928   .425
5   2000-01   2019-20   BRK   NBA   709   905   .439

The Knicks played the fewest playoff games over this span.

Code: Select all

Rk    From    To       Team    Lg    G    W    L    W/L%
1   2000-01   2012-13   NYK   NBA   30    9   21   .300
2   2000-01   2015-16   CHO   NBA   34   13   21   .382
3   2000-01   2017-18   MIN   NBA   36   14   22   .389
4   2002-03   2017-18   NOP   NBA   49   20   29   .408
5   2004-05   2017-18   WAS   NBA   66   29   37   .439

Ok I'll answer my own question.

The answer is absolutely not.

And who knows if it is actually rigged. You have Lebron making claims yesterday and he's about as close as it gets to being involved.

At the end of the day the Knicks will never be as big as the Yankees in that town just like the Dodgers or Rams will never be as big as the Lakers.

[Nate505]

For some people there's nothing they could do.

I'd like to see the actual process myself. It would add more transparency to it, but whatever, I never thought it was rigged before. The luck the Jazz have had in it the few times they've had good shots is irritating to me, but it's a lottery. Luck is all there is.

You realize the actual lottery is recorded and aired right? You can actually watch video of them sitting in that room while they're doing the lottery before the results are announced. That looks pretty transparent to me. A poster already posted it in this thread

Yes. The step I'm not seeing is the combinations that each team gets, though I get there's an issue showing that live. Look, I'm not saying it's rigged at all. I don't think it is, and if the NBA publishes the combos before the drawing and everyone could see it, great, that would answer the one complaint I might have...which isn't much of a complaint to be honest.

[shi-woo]

It would have to be non electrical, done on live TV, with no wiggle room. You know those phone booth things where they have a guy in the middle and air blows the money all over the place and they have to grab as much as possible? Essentially that, except the people are blindfolded, it's done on live TV, and the money/team's percentage would have to be verified on a live stream with no cuts or commercial breaks right before hand. I'm joking, but only a little...

That will never happen, because this is entertainment and money making business, and fairness is only part of the illusion created for the fans to continue to support the product. The Celtic's just sold for 6 billion. The NBA in and of itself is a trillion dollar enterprise. There is no way a trillion dollar business is gambling and not doing everything it can to maximize it's profits, and do what's best for itself.

Nothing anyone can say will change my thinking on that because it goes against human nature, business nature, and the entire history of business the world over. Find me an organization even a 10th as big as the NBA that isn't breaking some law, involved in some scandal, laundering money, inside trading, ext ext. I just refuse to believe that these business' are holier than thou, and not working in their own self interests.

LeBron and DRose going to their hometowns was in the NBA's best interests. The entire story of LeBron reads like a manufactured HBO documentary, because that's exactly what it was, a manufactured career.

The sports media, just like the real media, works 24/7 to influence/gaslight fans so that it's less noticeable, but they are the mouth piece of the NBA and the powers that be. They clearly try to influence guys like Mitchell/Dame/Giannis to leave their teams when it doesn't make sense to, setting it up years and years in advance. They also use their influence to create and maintain storylines to entertain. Women who say "sports is just reality tv for men" are so spot on, and just like reality tv, the ajority of it is fake and just an act.

The Kobe v Shaq beef was made out to be 10x greater than it was, and they got over a decade worth of material from that.

I already mentioned the LeBron hero/villain/redemtion arc

KD's villain arc to be the new bad guy to the new LeBron superteam.

Like everything else in the world of entertainment right now we are trying to homogenize and globalize the culture, so that's what the new era is all about post LBJ hero arc with Luka, Giannis, Jokic, and Shai. It's why we all are talking about the face of the league, white v black, and all that jazz now. It creates headlines. That's why Luka needed to go to LA, and it will be interesting to see what happens with Giannis, they keep trying to get him to move teams, but he's stayed strong so far.

IMO it seems like 50-75% of the actual NBA is manufactured and fake, whether through the refs helping dictate outcomes/stars effectiveness, the media and team officials putting pressure on players/gm's, and just making the easy calls like choosing which players go where in the draft.

The NBA knows everything your team knows. It has all the intel on who your team scouts, and who is really going to be that guy or not. They have so many stories and contingency plans ready to continue to own the 24/7 market, and there is really nothing anyone can say to change my mind on this, especially when it comes to the draft.

Look at all the sure things to come out of the draft.

Kyrie teamed up with LBJ in his prime years, and then to BOS/BRK
AD still made it to LA when he was a youngster, just in time to actually compete with LBJ
Chris Paul still made it to an LA team just as Blake was becoming must watch TV
Luka still made it to LA, again, right at the start of his prime.
Dwight still made it to LA in his prime
KD ultimately spent his prime on a CA/NY team.
Melo still made it to NY

You can go on and on. Every can't miss, this guy is 100% going to be a HoF talent, somehow spends their prime playing for one of the best teams/markets. It might not be immediately, they still have to craft the story and wait for the other headlines to play out, but it is a guarantee that the best players will get to the best situation possible to market them and create buzz.

Zion and Giannis are the next domino to fall now that Luka is in place. Who wants to bet one of them ends up in BRK or MIA?

imo the NBA doesn't even hide this anymore

[azcatz11]

Do you believe multi billion dollar businesses arent above bending the rules to get better outcomes for their bottom line?

That doesn't answer his question. If the NBA fixes things, why did they allow the Knicks to be the NBA's worst team for twenty years.

NYC has two team and both rank in the bottom 5 in RS W%. Another large city (DC) is in the bottom 5.

Code: Select all

Rk    From    To        Team    Lg    W    L    W/L%
1   2000-01   2019-20   NYK   NBA   643   965   .400
2   2000-01   2019-20   CHO   NBA   598   845   .414
3   2000-01   2019-20   MIN   NBA   668   938   .416
4   2000-01   2019-20   WAS   NBA   686   928   .425
5   2000-01   2019-20   BRK   NBA   709   905   .439

The Knicks played the fewest playoff games over this span.

Code: Select all

Rk    From    To       Team    Lg    G    W    L    W/L%
1   2000-01   2012-13   NYK   NBA   30    9   21   .300
2   2000-01   2015-16   CHO   NBA   34   13   21   .382
3   2000-01   2017-18   MIN   NBA   36   14   22   .389
4   2002-03   2017-18   NOP   NBA   49   20   29   .408
5   2004-05   2017-18   WAS   NBA   66   29   37   .439

Ok I'll answer my own question.

The answer is absolutely not.

And who knows if it is actually rigged. You have Lebron making claims yesterday and he's about as close as it gets to being involved.

At the end of the day the Knicks will never be as big as the Yankees in that town just like the Dodgers or Rams will never be as big as the Lakers.

Doesn't one of the big accounting firms certify the draft? They would have to be complicit. What is in it for them to agree to that? It doesn't make sense

[Moose]

I have no idea if it has ever been rigged or not, but it doesn't have to be rigged all the time, just occasionally

[sp6r=underrated]

Every can't miss, this guy is 100% going to be a HoF talent, somehow spends their prime playing for one of the best teams/markets.

Nothing anyone can say will change my thinking

This is the subtext for a lot of "it is fixed" folks. They are very low in social trust.

[TravisScott55]

Whether you believe the draft is rigged or not, there was some chicanery going on with the Cavs winning the number 1 pick 3 times in 4 years after Lebron left. The the New Orleans Hornets not having an owner then winning the Anthony Davis lottery was fishy. Not to mention the picture of him in the Hornets hat earlier in the day.

The Bulls jumping from 9th best odds to number 1 to draft the hometown kid in 2008, the Cavs winning the lottery in 2003 to draft the hometown kid. NBA does a great job creating stories.

[sp6r=underrated]

Whether you believe the draft is rigged or not, there was some chicanery going on with the Cavs winning the number 1 pick 3 times in 4 years after Lebron left. The the New Orleans Hornets not having an owner then winning the Anthony Davis lottery was fishy. Not to mention the picture of him in the Hornets hat earlier in the day.

The Bulls jumping from 9th best odds to number 1 to draft the hometown kid in 2008, the Cavs winning the lottery in 2003 to draft the hometown kid. NBA does a great job creating stories.

Why would the NBA care about helping Cleveland but not helping NYC?