Badgers Football - Transfer SZN

[Kerb Hohl]

There is significant evidence that in state recruiting has fallen off

You have to go all the way back to 2016 to find the last time Pre-Fickell that Wisconsin didn't land the top in state recruit per the 247 composite score. Meanwhile Fickell is now 0/3 in landing the top in state guy and has already missed on the top 3 in state guys this year, just like he missed on the top 3 in state last year, and the year before. He literally hasn't landed a top 3 in state recruit during his entire tenure and is 0/6 on in state 4 star guys

That's a bit disingenuous as Chryst lost Schrauth/Hinzman/Cross to ND/PSU in 2022 but kept Brunner who was slightly better. 2023 the talent was so bad who cares. Sexton/Smith in 2024, Flanagan/Strebig to ND in 2025 are similar losses to bluebloods.

We might just not be able to get the 4+ star guys anymore.

As for this 2026 guy to Minnesota, there are 6 OL currently ranked in the 2026 class, with barely a difference in rating (3 have gone elsewhere). I guess I'd care if they lose all 6 if they planned to keep them.

Outside of Allen/Wohler, the past 5 years the talent has ended up being really bad (so far) outside of the 2-3 hits that got lured away by better/bigger programs like ND/PSU/OSU which I think is just the new norm.

I mean losing every in state 4 star guy shouldn't be considered understandable imo. This year the top 3 recruits have commited to Indiana, Minnesota, & Iowa, all 3 of which we wanted. That's just flat out not good

Did we want them? 247 doesn't list an offer for the guy that just went to Minnesota.

[MVP2110]

That's a bit disingenuous as Chryst lost Schrauth/Hinzman/Cross to ND/PSU in 2022 but kept Brunner who was slightly better. 2023 the talent was so bad who cares. Sexton/Smith in 2024, Flanagan/Strebig to ND in 2025 are similar losses to bluebloods.

We might just not be able to get the 4+ star guys anymore.


As for this 2026 guy to Minnesota, there are 6 OL currently ranked in the 2026 class, with barely a difference in rating (3 have gone elsewhere). I guess I'd care if they lose all 6 if they planned to keep them.

Outside of Allen/Wohler, the past 5 years the talent has ended up being really bad (so far) outside of the 2-3 hits that got lured away by better/bigger programs like ND/PSU/OSU which I think is just the new norm.

I mean losing every in state 4 star guy shouldn't be considered understandable imo. This year the top 3 recruits have commited to Indiana, Minnesota, & Iowa, all 3 of which we wanted. That's just flat out not good

Did we want them? 247 doesn't list an offer for the guy that just went to Minnesota.

Yes, it's behind a paywall so I can't link it but according to Nick Osen & Evan Flood we wanted him and he was one of our top targets

Also here's his offer list, we are on it

https://247sports.com/player/gavin-meier-46150608/

[Kerb Hohl]

I mean losing every in state 4 star guy shouldn't be considered understandable imo. This year the top 3 recruits have commited to Indiana, Minnesota, & Iowa, all 3 of which we wanted. That's just flat out not good

Did we want them? 247 doesn't list an offer for the guy that just went to Minnesota.

Yes, it's behind a paywall so I can't link it but according to Nick Osen & Evan Flood we wanted him and he was one of our top targets

Also here's his offer list, we are on it

https://247sports.com/player/gavin-meier-46150608/

I swear I just looked at it and it said no offer.

Regardless, it's just a different sport now. I think we're boned because we lost guys like Schrauth/Hinzman. As for those middling guys...I dunno right now. I'm not sure how much to even value freshman recruiting anymore.

[MVP2110]

Pretty damning article. Meier says he chose Minnesota over Wisconsin because right now Minnesota is a better program. Ouch

Read on Twitter

?t=IUOjacJwFl9xQhOhhc6F6g&s=19

[Kerb Hohl]

Good for him. The game has changed. Let's go get somebody better from somewhere else and kick Fleck's ass like that extremely distant 16 months ago.

Also, the actual quote...I get it when more context is added. He says there's more certainty at Minnesota right now. That's probably true. Fleck can stay there as long as he wants at this point.

[MVP2110]

Good for him. The game has changed. Let's go get somebody better from somewhere else and kick Fleck's ass like that extremely distant 16 months ago.

Also, the actual quote...I get it when more context is added. He says there's more certainty at Minnesota right now. That's probably true. Fleck can stay there as long as he wants at this point.

Tbf I don't even think hes necessarily wrong. It's hard to say Wisconsin is a better program than Minnesota right now when Minnesota has beaten us 3 of the last 4 years.

[Kerb Hohl]

Good for him. The game has changed. Let's go get somebody better from somewhere else and kick Fleck's ass like that extremely distant 16 months ago.

Also, the actual quote...I get it when more context is added. He says there's more certainty at Minnesota right now. That's probably true. Fleck can stay there as long as he wants at this point.

Tbf I don't even think hes necessarily wrong. It's hard to say Wisconsin is a better program than Minnesota right now when Minnesota has beaten us 3 of the last 4 years.

Maybe...I noted that I do think Fleck has gotten them to a pretty good level. I think I may be ready to get in the foxhole for Fickell at Gard 2018, "I see losses, therefore culture bad" takes going on, because I do think if we can get past the schedule ****, we'll start to be a solid team again in short order.

[MVP2110]

Good for him. The game has changed. Let's go get somebody better from somewhere else and kick Fleck's ass like that extremely distant 16 months ago.

Also, the actual quote...I get it when more context is added. He says there's more certainty at Minnesota right now. That's probably true. Fleck can stay there as long as he wants at this point.

Tbf I don't even think hes necessarily wrong. It's hard to say Wisconsin is a better program than Minnesota right now when Minnesota has beaten us 3 of the last 4 years.

Maybe...I noted that I do think Fleck has gotten them to a pretty good level. I think I may be ready to get in the foxhole for Fickell at Gard 2018, "I see losses, therefore culture bad" takes going on, because I do think if we can get past the schedule ****, we'll start to be a solid team again in short order.

I get the schedule stuff. Losing to Alabama, Oregon, or Penn St last year makes sense. Losing at home to Minnesota, or getting blown out by Iowa & Nebraska however is a clear step back of where we were previously.

[Kerb Hohl]

Tbf I don't even think hes necessarily wrong. It's hard to say Wisconsin is a better program than Minnesota right now when Minnesota has beaten us 3 of the last 4 years.

Maybe...I noted that I do think Fleck has gotten them to a pretty good level. I think I may be ready to get in the foxhole for Fickell at Gard 2018, "I see losses, therefore culture bad" takes going on, because I do think if we can get past the schedule ****, we'll start to be a solid team again in short order.

I get the schedule stuff. Losing to Alabama, Oregon, or Penn St last year makes sense. Losing at home to Minnesota, or getting blown out by Iowa & Nebraska however is a clear step back of where we were previously.

It's a broken record, but take Brosmer, Minnesota's transfer QB, out of the equation and they might've won 3 or 4 games against an easy schedule last year. I realize the vibes were much lower on TVD, but he would've been the difference in some of the close ones. Brosmer also looked like **** for 2 games and then carried them.

The talent was just awful for Fickell coming in. He's now in a season where he's 90% past that excuse and has to prove that his young guys or transfers are showing something, but I think that's also underrated. Iowa, Nebraska, and Minnesota had a bunch of 4-5 year studs like Ty Robinson or Lindenberg that anchored their defense. We obviously need to see that - but the talent was absolute ass after Benton/Herbig left. You can't poach an elite DT out of the portal unless you've got millions to spend.

[MVP2110]

Maybe...I noted that I do think Fleck has gotten them to a pretty good level. I think I may be ready to get in the foxhole for Fickell at Gard 2018, "I see losses, therefore culture bad" takes going on, because I do think if we can get past the schedule ****, we'll start to be a solid team again in short order.

I get the schedule stuff. Losing to Alabama, Oregon, or Penn St last year makes sense. Losing at home to Minnesota, or getting blown out by Iowa & Nebraska however is a clear step back of where we were previously.

It's a broken record, but take Brosmer, Minnesota's transfer QB, out of the equation and they might've won 3 or 4 games against an easy schedule last year. I realize the vibes were much lower on TVD, but he would've been the difference in some of the close ones. Brosmer also looked like **** for 2 games and then carried them.

The talent was just awful for Fickell coming in. He's now in a season where he's 90% past that excuse and has to prove that his young guys or transfers are showing something, but I think that's also underrated. Iowa, Nebraska, and Minnesota had a bunch of 4-5 year studs like Ty Robinson or Lindenberg that anchored their defense. We obviously need to see that - but the talent was absolute ass after Benton/Herbig left. You can't poach an elite DT out of the portal unless you've got millions to spend.

I tend to agree that with TVD it's possible we pull the upsets vs Oregon or Penn St. But against Nebraska & Iowa our defense got wrecked. TVD doesn't win us those games. Losing to 3 former Big Ten West rivals in blowouts is the main reason "vibes are down", not because of the losses to Bama, Oregon, or Penn St

[Kerb Hohl]

I get the schedule stuff. Losing to Alabama, Oregon, or Penn St last year makes sense. Losing at home to Minnesota, or getting blown out by Iowa & Nebraska however is a clear step back of where we were previously.

It's a broken record, but take Brosmer, Minnesota's transfer QB, out of the equation and they might've won 3 or 4 games against an easy schedule last year. I realize the vibes were much lower on TVD, but he would've been the difference in some of the close ones. Brosmer also looked like **** for 2 games and then carried them.

The talent was just awful for Fickell coming in. He's now in a season where he's 90% past that excuse and has to prove that his young guys or transfers are showing something, but I think that's also underrated. Iowa, Nebraska, and Minnesota had a bunch of 4-5 year studs like Ty Robinson or Lindenberg that anchored their defense. We obviously need to see that - but the talent was absolute ass after Benton/Herbig left. You can't poach an elite DT out of the portal unless you've got millions to spend.

I tend to agree that with TVD it's possible we pull the upsets vs Oregon or Penn St. But against Nebraska & Iowa our defense got wrecked. TVD doesn't win us those games. Losing to 3 former Big Ten West rivals in blowouts is the main reason "vibes are down", not because of the losses to Bama, Oregon, or Penn St

I think people make too many snap judgments on those games. I doubt they win any of those games, but if TVD theoretically improved and they could move the ball, those Iowa and Minnesota games are different even if the defense was pretty bad.

They were probably a Mordecai broken finger away from going 3-0 against those teams in 2023.

Finally, imagine if 2 of Oregon/PSU/@USC/Bama were replaced with much more winnable games (@USC supposedly not that tough to the common fan, the predictive metrics say otherwise)...you'd then have a schedule that looks more like Minnesota or Iowa's last year. 7-5 with a backup QB and the sky isn't falling even with some crappy rivalry game results.

[MVP2110]

It's a broken record, but take Brosmer, Minnesota's transfer QB, out of the equation and they might've won 3 or 4 games against an easy schedule last year. I realize the vibes were much lower on TVD, but he would've been the difference in some of the close ones. Brosmer also looked like **** for 2 games and then carried them.

The talent was just awful for Fickell coming in. He's now in a season where he's 90% past that excuse and has to prove that his young guys or transfers are showing something, but I think that's also underrated. Iowa, Nebraska, and Minnesota had a bunch of 4-5 year studs like Ty Robinson or Lindenberg that anchored their defense. We obviously need to see that - but the talent was absolute ass after Benton/Herbig left. You can't poach an elite DT out of the portal unless you've got millions to spend.

I tend to agree that with TVD it's possible we pull the upsets vs Oregon or Penn St. But against Nebraska & Iowa our defense got wrecked. TVD doesn't win us those games. Losing to 3 former Big Ten West rivals in blowouts is the main reason "vibes are down", not because of the losses to Bama, Oregon, or Penn St

I think people make too many snap judgments on those games. I doubt they win any of those games, but if TVD theoretically improved and they could move the ball, those Iowa and Minnesota games are different even if the defense was pretty bad.

They were probably a Mordecai broken finger away from going 3-0 against those teams in 2023.

Finally, imagine if 2 of Oregon/PSU/@USC/Bama were replaced with much more winnable games (@USC supposedly not bad on paper, the predictive metrics say otherwise)...you'd then have a schedule that looks more like Minnesota or Iowa's last year. 7-5 with a backup QB and the sky isn't falling even with some crappy rivalry game results.

I'm not sure we can use the Mordecai excuse for the Iowa game in 2023 considering Iowa was also playing with a backup QB. I'm not writing Fickell off yet, I've been on the train that is fine giving him 4 years, but the image of the program is probably as low as it's been in my lifetime.

[Kerb Hohl]

I tend to agree that with TVD it's possible we pull the upsets vs Oregon or Penn St. But against Nebraska & Iowa our defense got wrecked. TVD doesn't win us those games. Losing to 3 former Big Ten West rivals in blowouts is the main reason "vibes are down", not because of the losses to Bama, Oregon, or Penn St

I think people make too many snap judgments on those games. I doubt they win any of those games, but if TVD theoretically improved and they could move the ball, those Iowa and Minnesota games are different even if the defense was pretty bad.

They were probably a Mordecai broken finger away from going 3-0 against those teams in 2023.

Finally, imagine if 2 of Oregon/PSU/@USC/Bama were replaced with much more winnable games (@USC supposedly not bad on paper, the predictive metrics say otherwise)...you'd then have a schedule that looks more like Minnesota or Iowa's last year. 7-5 with a backup QB and the sky isn't falling even with some crappy rivalry game results.

I'm not sure we can use the Mordecai excuse for the Iowa game in 2023 considering Iowa was also playing with a backup QB. I'm not writing Fickell off yet, I've been on the train that is fine giving him 4 years, but the image of the program is probably as low as it's been in my lifetime.

The teams are just different. For better or worse, that's Iowa. They will win 10 games when the schedule is easy (it somehow was 80% of seasons the past decade). You can get into Fickell a bit for going with a strategy that has a single point of failure at QB, but if you gave both teams their starting QBs, Badgers win that game pretty easily.

I just hope this "image problem" that is very simplistic (as discussed on the basketball board) as Gard in 2018-2019 and we rise from the ashes. "Team lose. Culture bad." I am not even that big of a Fickell fan in general, I just want it to work because if it doesn't, we'll go through another 2-3 years of retooling. We'll over-compensate and hire a Wisconsin guy that only recruits locally and also struggle to meet the old standard. It's just the sport now.

[MVP2110]

I think people make too many snap judgments on those games. I doubt they win any of those games, but if TVD theoretically improved and they could move the ball, those Iowa and Minnesota games are different even if the defense was pretty bad.

They were probably a Mordecai broken finger away from going 3-0 against those teams in 2023.

Finally, imagine if 2 of Oregon/PSU/@USC/Bama were replaced with much more winnable games (@USC supposedly not bad on paper, the predictive metrics say otherwise)...you'd then have a schedule that looks more like Minnesota or Iowa's last year. 7-5 with a backup QB and the sky isn't falling even with some crappy rivalry game results.

I'm not sure we can use the Mordecai excuse for the Iowa game in 2023 considering Iowa was also playing with a backup QB. I'm not writing Fickell off yet, I've been on the train that is fine giving him 4 years, but the image of the program is probably as low as it's been in my lifetime.

The teams are just different. For better or worse, that's Iowa. They will win 10 games when the schedule is easy (it somehow was 80% of seasons the past decade). You can get into Fickell a bit for going with a strategy that has a single point of failure at QB, but if you gave both teams their starting QBs, Badgers win that game pretty easily.

I just hope this "image problem" that is very simplistic (as discussed on the basketball board) as Gard in 2018-2019 and we rise from the ashes. "Team lose. Culture bad." I am not even that big of a Fickell fan in general, I just want it to work because if it doesn't, we'll go through another 2-3 years of retooling. We'll over-compensate and hire a Wisconsin guy that only recruits locally and also struggle to meet the old standard. It's just the sport now.

To clarify, I've never been on the fire Gard bandwagon. I think there's a very clear difference though in the product that Gard has put out and what Fickell has put out thus far.

[MikeIsGood]

I dunno, it kinda just sounds to me like the used car salesman made a decent sale on this one. It's been all of, like, four months since Fleck was last on the hot seat with Gopher fans? Even with some good wins last year Gopher fans were tired with him. The Wisconsin and Bowl wins obviously flipped that back. They won their Superbowl. But it's really short sighted to think that Minnesota is going to be a player in the new college football landscape. The kid's 16 and he probably got a good NIL promise. It's ok. Don't blame him.

Again, this may be big time copium but this just doesn't ruffle my feathers in any way at all.

[Kerb Hohl]

I'm not sure we can use the Mordecai excuse for the Iowa game in 2023 considering Iowa was also playing with a backup QB. I'm not writing Fickell off yet, I've been on the train that is fine giving him 4 years, but the image of the program is probably as low as it's been in my lifetime.

The teams are just different. For better or worse, that's Iowa. They will win 10 games when the schedule is easy (it somehow was 80% of seasons the past decade). You can get into Fickell a bit for going with a strategy that has a single point of failure at QB, but if you gave both teams their starting QBs, Badgers win that game pretty easily.

I just hope this "image problem" that is very simplistic (as discussed on the basketball board) as Gard in 2018-2019 and we rise from the ashes. "Team lose. Culture bad." I am not even that big of a Fickell fan in general, I just want it to work because if it doesn't, we'll go through another 2-3 years of retooling. We'll over-compensate and hire a Wisconsin guy that only recruits locally and also struggle to meet the old standard. It's just the sport now.

To clarify, I've never been on the fire Gard bandwagon. I think there's a very clear difference though in the product that Gard has put out and what Fickell has put out thus far.

I realize you're not in this and that there was some early success from Gard in that example, but people love to build narratives based on very basic W-L stuff.

My whole thing is that, like Gard, that season that was in the dumpster due to half of his team getting hurt/young players in 2018 was understandable because the predictive metrics told us he had good results leading up to it. I can't necessarily say that for Fickell because the adversity hit almost immediately, but he was also taking over a team that was on a downward trajectory, not national title game.

We had that period between 2019 and 2022 or whatever where Alando Tucker got to tell us the culture was bad, some recruiting decisions were made because "Gard can't develop talent" etc. etc. And then he won a few times and everything was good again.

[MVP2110]

The teams are just different. For better or worse, that's Iowa. They will win 10 games when the schedule is easy (it somehow was 80% of seasons the past decade). You can get into Fickell a bit for going with a strategy that has a single point of failure at QB, but if you gave both teams their starting QBs, Badgers win that game pretty easily.

I just hope this "image problem" that is very simplistic (as discussed on the basketball board) as Gard in 2018-2019 and we rise from the ashes. "Team lose. Culture bad." I am not even that big of a Fickell fan in general, I just want it to work because if it doesn't, we'll go through another 2-3 years of retooling. We'll over-compensate and hire a Wisconsin guy that only recruits locally and also struggle to meet the old standard. It's just the sport now.

To clarify, I've never been on the fire Gard bandwagon. I think there's a very clear difference though in the product that Gard has put out and what Fickell has put out thus far.

I realize you're not in this and that there was some early success from Gard in that example, but people love to build narratives based on very basic W-L stuff.

My whole thing is that, like Gard, that season that was in the dumpster due to half of his team getting hurt/young players in 2018 was understandable because the predictive metrics told us he had good results leading up to it. I can't necessarily say that for Fickell because the adversity hit almost immediately, but he was also taking over a team that was on a downward trajectory, not national title game.

We had that period between 2019 and 2022 or whatever where Alando Tucker got to tell us the culture was bad, some recruiting decisions were made because "Gard can't develop talent" etc. etc. And then he won a few times and everything was good again.

I mean there's been a distinct difference in the success of Gard & Fickell though. Gard has won the conference twice and reached the NCAA tourney all but two years. An occasional down year is fine, I don't expect only ups. In fact I find most of the complaints about Gard to be about stylistic stuff that I don't care much about, and when it comes to wins/losses he's been pretty good. I don't think you can say that same thing for Fickell. One could say Fickell came in with a bare cupboard of talent, but our offense and our defense both took noticeable steps back under him, even in year 1 when we weren't playing the Oregon's & Alabama's of the world.

[Kerb Hohl]

To clarify, I've never been on the fire Gard bandwagon. I think there's a very clear difference though in the product that Gard has put out and what Fickell has put out thus far.

I realize you're not in this and that there was some early success from Gard in that example, but people love to build narratives based on very basic W-L stuff.

My whole thing is that, like Gard, that season that was in the dumpster due to half of his team getting hurt/young players in 2018 was understandable because the predictive metrics told us he had good results leading up to it. I can't necessarily say that for Fickell because the adversity hit almost immediately, but he was also taking over a team that was on a downward trajectory, not national title game.

We had that period between 2019 and 2022 or whatever where Alando Tucker got to tell us the culture was bad, some recruiting decisions were made because "Gard can't develop talent" etc. etc. And then he won a few times and everything was good again.

I mean there's been a distinct difference in the success of Gard & Fickell though. Gard has won the conference twice and reached the NCAA tourney all but two years. An occasional down year is fine, I don't expect only ups. In fact I find most of the complaints about Gard to be about stylistic stuff that I don't care much about, and when it comes to wins/losses he's been pretty good. I don't think you can say that same thing for Fickell. One could say Fickell came in with a bare cupboard of talent, but our offense and our defense both took noticeable steps back under him, even in year 1 when we weren't playing the Oregon's & Alabama's of the world.

I don't think you get the point, whatever. There are "culture issues" and "downward trajectory" whenever Gard struggles. I'm talking mostly about 2018 or aybe 2 years ago...but somebody that can see the forest through the trees sticks it out. You can go back to the arguments in the early Gard days on the basketball board and everyone just knew Gard couldn't develop talent, because look at this team without 3 of his best players and a bunch of freshmen.

Fickell had very expected struggles given the constraints right away and suddenly everyone can come out of the woodwork to try to explain why. I think literally any coach you put in there would be struggling with no talent + not a ton of NIL to patch it quickly + playing a backup QB 2 years in a row.

[MVP2110]

I realize you're not in this and that there was some early success from Gard in that example, but people love to build narratives based on very basic W-L stuff.

My whole thing is that, like Gard, that season that was in the dumpster due to half of his team getting hurt/young players in 2018 was understandable because the predictive metrics told us he had good results leading up to it. I can't necessarily say that for Fickell because the adversity hit almost immediately, but he was also taking over a team that was on a downward trajectory, not national title game.

We had that period between 2019 and 2022 or whatever where Alando Tucker got to tell us the culture was bad, some recruiting decisions were made because "Gard can't develop talent" etc. etc. And then he won a few times and everything was good again.

I mean there's been a distinct difference in the success of Gard & Fickell though. Gard has won the conference twice and reached the NCAA tourney all but two years. An occasional down year is fine, I don't expect only ups. In fact I find most of the complaints about Gard to be about stylistic stuff that I don't care much about, and when it comes to wins/losses he's been pretty good. I don't think you can say that same thing for Fickell. One could say Fickell came in with a bare cupboard of talent, but our offense and our defense both took noticeable steps back under him, even in year 1 when we weren't playing the Oregon's & Alabama's of the world.

I don't think you get the point, whatever. There are "culture issues" and "downward trajectory" whenever Gard struggles. I'm talking mostly about 2018 or aybe 2 years ago...but somebody that can see the forest through the trees sticks it out. You can go back to the arguments in the early Gard days on the basketball board and everyone just knew Gard couldn't develop talent, because look at this team without 3 of his best players and a bunch of freshmen.

Fickell had very expected struggles given the constraints right away and suddenly everyone can come out of the woodwork to try to explain why. I think literally any coach you put in there would be struggling with no talent + not a ton of NIL to patch it quickly + playing a backup QB 2 years in a row.

I think your misconstruing me with someone who dislikes Gard. I am in agreement with you on Gard. He's a good coach and that's been pretty apparent to me since he took over. I can't say that same thing has been apparent with Fickell, he's underachieved in both of his seasons here even given the expected struggles. Gard & Fickell aren't the same imo.

[Kerb Hohl]

I mean there's been a distinct difference in the success of Gard & Fickell though. Gard has won the conference twice and reached the NCAA tourney all but two years. An occasional down year is fine, I don't expect only ups. In fact I find most of the complaints about Gard to be about stylistic stuff that I don't care much about, and when it comes to wins/losses he's been pretty good. I don't think you can say that same thing for Fickell. One could say Fickell came in with a bare cupboard of talent, but our offense and our defense both took noticeable steps back under him, even in year 1 when we weren't playing the Oregon's & Alabama's of the world.

I don't think you get the point, whatever. There are "culture issues" and "downward trajectory" whenever Gard struggles. I'm talking mostly about 2018 or aybe 2 years ago...but somebody that can see the forest through the trees sticks it out. You can go back to the arguments in the early Gard days on the basketball board and everyone just knew Gard couldn't develop talent, because look at this team without 3 of his best players and a bunch of freshmen.

Fickell had very expected struggles given the constraints right away and suddenly everyone can come out of the woodwork to try to explain why. I think literally any coach you put in there would be struggling with no talent + not a ton of NIL to patch it quickly + playing a backup QB 2 years in a row.

I think your misconstruing me with someone who dislikes Gard. I am in agreement with you on Gard. He's a good coach and that's been pretty apparent to me since he took over. I can't say that same thing has been apparent with Fickell, he's underachieved in both of his seasons here even given the expected struggles. Gard & Fickell aren't the same imo.

I'm not saying you don't like Gard. I know you always have. I'm saying that the general consensus is generally to just start making these narratives if anything goes south, even if it isn't due to the actual narratives, and both have now experienced it.

Though they are polar opposite types of hires, they both hit some tough luck adversity. The only issue is that Fickell's happened almost immediately vs. Gard had a couple of years to build up some goodwill. If the team sucks with his own guys and his QB plays for the full season, then I'm ready to fire him in a year or two.