Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Horst Given Extension

[FrieAaron]

Part of the GMs job is to convince others to see his vision. Horst fails at this because he simply rarely has scouting successes.

Sure, but this is one of those things that's probably much easier to say when you're not the one with a nice million dollar salary at risk. And Horst started out as the lowest salaried GM in the league, so it's not like he started as super rich. I'd be milking the hell out of it while I could.

[DanoMac]

I always thought the timing of the Lasry's selling was weird. Giannis was in his absolute prime, still theoretically a contender. What did they know that we didn't?

Very depressing times. Only the **** Bucks

[emunney]

Part of the GMs job is to convince others to see his vision. Horst fails at this because he simply rarely has scouting successes.

Sure, but this is one of those things that's probably much easier to say when you're not the one with a nice million dollar salary at risk. And Horst started out as the lowest salaried GM in the league, so it's not like he started as super rich. I'd be milking the hell out of it while I could.

I love that for him, but while knuckling under to bad ideas might protect his paycheck, it doesn't make me want to have him in that chair.

[emunney]

It's the 1st trade of Horst's that entered it. Before you could see what he was going for, he just consistently overpaid on bigger trades.

Dealing 2 higher trade value guys for a lower value one is akin to Vazquez for a 1st & 2nd, Tobias for Redick, & Ray for a GP rental. That, & the fact Horst just drafted AJJ, is in part why I think there was influence from Doc or Haslam. Kidd/Lasry influenced the Vazquez trade & Karl Ray's.

I absolutely think this a Doc trade, for the record. You can hear it in how Doc talks about Kuzma.

But Horst was certainly in the room. You have to assume at the very least he lost that argument (like he did with Atkinson), which ultimately leaves him just as ineffective as if he made the decision himself.

To be fair to Horst, since we're all in complete conjecture mode, this could also be why he wanted out.

Did he want out? I thought the Pistons came to us.

[Bernman]

I always thought the timing of the Lasry's selling was weird. Giannis was in his absolute prime, still theoretically a contender. What did they know that we didn't?

He's a banker. They were spending too much $ to make a profit in any other way than from his sale. The over-spending coincidentally aligned w/ a reduction of talent in a cap league & an aged roster over time. Doesn't have to be more complex.

[emunney]

I might lose my damn mind if we pick up Reddish.

[GoldenAntlers]

I'm seeing a lot of comments from people mad at the Kuzma defenders and I am still trying to figure out who they are talking to.

We were almost unanimously relieved to see the team-first energy and effort Kuzma offered at the onset.

Then, we were almost unanimously curious as to where that team-first energy and effort has been since his second week with the team.

That's the problem.

We've seen just enough to understand the potential, but we also haven't seen enough to seriously hope that potential will be realized.

[GoldenAntlers]

There’s a difference in advocating for Kuzma and the trade versus the potential of Johnson.

Middleton is a corpse that had zero value. The Bucks clearly had to attach someone to a deal if they wanted to move him. Do I think that trade should have been for Kuzma? No.

But I’m also not trying to convince myself that AJJ has anything beyond role player potential.

Having a role player would be huge. We win that Nuggets game with Sims.

[Bernman]

As for the energy, and the rim finishing/offense cratering further, maybe that's the illness he contracted a week and a half ago. It impacted Dame for weeks. Not that they both didn't have their flaws independently. They were just exacerbated. Kuz has played thru ailments, to our detriment & his.

[soxperry]

I'm seeing a lot of comments from people mad at the Kuzma defenders and I am still trying to figure out who they are talking to.

We were almost unanimously relieved to see the team-first energy and effort Kuzma offered at the onset.

Then, we were almost unanimously curious as to where that team-first energy and effort has been since his second week with the team.

That's the problem.

We've seen just enough to understand the potential, but we also haven't seen enough to seriously hope that potential will be realized.

People confuse process and results and base all of their opinions on the most recent reaction. I personally stuck up for the process of going with Kuzma, only to point out that there was some logic to it. But you should have seen him against Denver without Giannis, Dame or Bobby.

Why oh why didnt Horat watch that game before ignoring all the better trades that were definitely available and deal for Kuzma? Hes so stupid.

[pifhluk23]

The Middleton trade could actually be the dumbest **** thing we've ever done, and it's hard to get in that conversation.

Prime Ray Allen for washed GP

[FrieAaron]

I absolutely think this a Doc trade, for the record. You can hear it in how Doc talks about Kuzma.

But Horst was certainly in the room. You have to assume at the very least he lost that argument (like he did with Atkinson), which ultimately leaves him just as ineffective as if he made the decision himself.

To be fair to Horst, since we're all in complete conjecture mode, this could also be why he wanted out.

Did he want out? I thought the Pistons came to us.

Yeah, it's possible he wasn't really even interested. I just remember at the time thinking a move from MIL to DET seemed strange to me so some sort of frustration of his part would help explain it in my own mind. Of course just a year later the DET job probably seems like a no-brainer.

[yb90]

RJ Barrett for Kuzma in thr offseason will likely be the best move. It might not be a huge upgrade but it is an upgrade and a younger player to add. Barrett has his worts but he's improved as a passer and is young enough to take a chance on. I think he is a slightly better version of Andrew Wiggins at the same age. If the Bucks could add him as a 3rd option they would have the extra playmaker glue guy they need.

[jimmybones]

I don't buy the notion that Horst should be blamed for not convincing dumb, rich owners to not make dumb decisions when ultimately they are the owners and if they want to do something dumb, it is their call.

We have no way of knowing any of this but if the scenario was that Horst wanted Atkinson and made a compelling argument for it but Haslam wanted Doc and Haslam has the final say. I'm blaming Haslam.

I'm blaming the moron in the room for doing the moronic thing, not the guy who tried to talk to moron out of it but ultimately does not have the power to have the final say over the moron.

[jimmybones]

But Horst was certainly in the room. You have to assume at the very least he lost that argument (like he did with Atkinson), which ultimately leaves him just as ineffective as if he made the decision himself.

My concern with this hypothetical lies more with owners meddling on that level more than Horst's inability to sell that he's right.

If they don't trust Horst to make that call, then fire him and hire someone you trust and let them do their job. Worst case scenario is this level of meddling where Jimmy **** Haslam is making basketball decisions.

[msiris]

I'm seeing a lot of comments from people mad at the Kuzma defenders and I am still trying to figure out who they are talking to.

We were almost unanimously relieved to see the team-first energy and effort Kuzma offered at the onset.

Then, we were almost unanimously curious as to where that team-first energy and effort has been since his second week with the team.

That's the problem.

We've seen just enough to understand the potential, but we also haven't seen enough to seriously hope that potential will be realized.

No one liked this trade. I for one just didn't think it made us better or worse then what we were. Wthout Giannis and Dame you can't ask guys like Kuzma to be the guy.

[msiris]

Lots speculation as far as who did what as far the trade.Nobody here knows.

[BigO]

I am much more conerned with what Horst did tradewise and his personnel moves than on the coaching situation.

I am won over that Doc should go, although with the injuries,and length of contract, i don't think there is much chance of that.

But roster construction is so much more important than who the coach is (unless it's Griffin).

And the trade for Kuzma is the last straw. No GM worth their salt thinks Kuzma is a starting caliber shooting forward on a championship team.

[Baddy Chuck]

I think they thought Kuzma would fit in better than he has, granted there hasn't been ton of Giannis/Dame time, but I thin there was also a lot of pressure to dip the apron which I don't think was going to improve this team at all.

[emunney]

To be fair to Horst, since we're all in complete conjecture mode, this could also be why he wanted out.

Did he want out? I thought the Pistons came to us.

Yeah, it's possible he wasn't really even interested. I just remember at the time thinking a move from MIL to DET seemed strange to me so some sort of frustration of his part would help explain it in my own mind. Of course just a year later the DET job probably seems like a no-brainer.

I'd have wanted that Detroit job if I was him. Like if I was GM of the Nuggets and the Bucks came calling, I'd be pretty pissed if the Nuggets said we couldn't talk.

I truly don't understand why the Bucks did that.