The official fire Chris Finch thread

[Note30]

Maybe this time needs its own version of Kenny Atkinson to reach next level..

Erik Spoelstra maybe available. Heat needs a new voice too.

Oh man wolves need to jump on that asap.

No way this is real. And if it is no way we get him. He's a HOF coach, he's only 54, he ain't keeling over.

[Baseline81]

These are definitely games that make you wonder....

However, I think Anthony Edwards is the most important individual in the franchise right now. Any and all decisions need to be put through that lens. And honestly, this includes a potential Kevin Durant decision, which on the court I believe would be a boon for the team's late-game offensive production in part because Ant will be willing to defer to him.

I think a coaching change is a precarious position, and is no guarantee. Finch could potentially be our version of Monty Williams in Phoenix.

Under Finch, the problem has always been that these sort of games happen far too frequent. Again, you like to point to Golden State losing a few to non-playoff teams, but even you must admit, it's beyond a few for the Wolves.

[frankenwolf]

Nope, still not firing Finch. Noone has answered my previous question and looking at current coaching situations, I still think we have a winner here.

[minimus]

Nope, still not firing Finch. Noone has answered my previous question and looking at current coaching situations, I still think we have a winner here.

Yep. These voices are only loud in the dark.

[Greenbolt90]

i really take issue with one of the core tenants of Finch's defensive philosophy with this team: his heavy emphasis on ball pressuring guys off the 3pt line

it makes sense in theory to run guys off the line, so that they're forced into Rudy, an all-time great rim protector. the issue is that our roster is full of players who are vulnerable to being overpowered at the rim. Conley/Ant/DiVincenzo/Jaden/NAW/Naz. most of these players are great on-ball defenders otherwise, and so what often happens is player x drives to the rim on us, the guy guarding him, player y, is doing a solid job staying with him, which often blocks off Rudy from rim-protecting, but then player y gets overpowered by player x at the rim and scores

another issue with the heavy emphasis on ball pressure is that we're vulnerable to screen rejections and sending guys in advantageous directions for them like towards their strong hand and/or away from help. on-ball perimeter defenders are being tasked with too much: stop the ball-handler from driving in either direction as well as stopping the 3pt shot. i agree with prioritizing defending the 3 since we have Rudy to rim-protect, but i don't think it should be quite to this extent where we're giving up blow-bys constantly and often failing to properly funnel. i think there should be more emphasis on funneling towards Rudy, and not quite as much emphasis on ball pressuring guys off the 3pt line

right now we invariably have a ridiculous number of on-ball breakdowns. we saw it on display against the pelicans the other night. why we're ball-pressuring even Zion off the 3pt line is beyond me. the result was often either Zion overpowering his man at the rim, or the defense having to collapse and give up an open 3

this timberwolves team has the potential to be all-time great defensively. the terrible transition D and overemphasis on crashing the defensive glass are admittedly a couple of other weak points, but these make up a small enough slice of the defensive pie chart that they don't drag the defense down too much. and then there's so many strong points:

-our p&r D is phenomenal between Jaden/NAW/Jaylen Clark's point-of-attack D (a ridiculous trio, not even fair), Rudy's drop D, and the highly effective peel switch scheme

-our rotations are great

-we're great at chasing guys off the ball

-we force a lot of turnovers both on the ball and in the passing lanes

we have an all-time rim protector in Rudy as well as a great secondary rim protector in Jaden when he's at the 4

-we have a matchup for every non-center in the league. Clark/NAW/Jaden allows us to always have a great poa defender on the floor. we have NAW for 2s, Jaden for taller 3s & 4s, and Randle for bigger, slower 4s

put all of the positives together and you have the 6th best defense in the league. but this is a mirage in a sense because if you have notable defensive holes in any area they can be exploited to hell by the right team in the playoffs. look at the west finals last year where it was ironically our defense that lost us the series, not the offense. look at the pelicans game the other night. at the end of the day it doesn't matter how great your rotations are and how good the other aspects of your defense are if you're giving up on-ball breakdowns constantly. it's too many holes in the ship to plug, and all it takes is the right team to come along and fire a few cannonballs for your ship to meet its doom

i think the timberwolves should be right with the thunder for best defense in the league, far ahead of every other team. but while the timberwolves do a lot of great things defensively, the continual overemphasis on ball pressuring guys off the 3pt line severely holds them back on that end. let's just hope that wednesday night wasn't a preview of things to come

[FrenchMinnyFan]

I agree with the previous comments. We are not as bad as we show last 2 games. Actually one biggest problem is how to improve and manage well the clutch time. We find solutions and we may have a run, we don't and we likely get out at 1st round of PO.

[Dalvin]

Nice article on Finch:
https://www.startribune.com/chris-finch-timberwolves-coach-scoggins/601252040

[m2002brian]

And then Jenkins was available.


Wow!
Wonder why he was fired.

[Klomp]

And then Jenkins was available.


Wow!
Wonder why he was fired.

WOW. (still wouldn't fire Finch for him btw)

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

[Baseline81]

And then Jenkins was available.


Wow!
Wonder why he was fired.

And yet, folks still want Finch at the helm...

Grizzlies' leadership clearly sees a need for change. They aren't satisfied sitting 5th in the Western Conference. Should be a wake-up call for Connelly.

[bluethunder0005]

Jenkins sucks as a coach and is worse than Finch so getting that stated now.

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

[Klomp]

Since the all-star break....

Memphis: 8-11
Minnesota: 10-7

[TimberKat]

Since the all-star break....

Memphis: 8-11
Minnesota: 10-7

From outside looking in, 8-11 isn't bad with Ja out many of those games. Do they have the leadership to get back on track or just spinal to the play-in. 10-7 is not exactly great either for Wolves.

[m2002brian]

Jenkins has consistently outcoached Finch.
Head to head and also during periods of missing their best player.

[younggunsmn]

Jenkins sucks as a coach and is worse than Finch so getting that stated now.

This is a moronic statement.
Jenkins is fantastic both from an X's and O's and player development perspective.
Jenkins came back from 25 points down in the 2nd half 3 times in a playoff series against Finch and there was nothing Finch could do to stop it.

He finds 2nd round picks and other teams leftovers every year and turns them into plus rotation players.
The list is a mile long.
He turned one of the stupidest players in the league in Ja Morant into a top 10 performer.

Read the GM's statement:

"I'm genuinely appreciative of Taylor's contributions to this team and this city over the past six seasons," Grizzlies general manager Zach Kleiman said in a statement. "This was a difficult decision, given the consistent and tangible development of our players and overall success under Taylor's leadership. I wish Taylor the very best going forward."

If that doesn't passive aggressively say "This wasn't my decision and he didnt deserve it" I don't know what does.

There has to be more to this like a massive personality conflict, ownership tantrum, or something non basketball related..
Taylor Jenkins is more valuable to winning for that franchise than even Ja Morant.

Like it or not, Chris Finch is here until Anthony Edwards requests a coaching change.
He's a league average coach and right now he doesn't have a lot to work with beyond an extremely banged up Anthony Edwards.

He's not the one who traded 7 years of draft picks for Rob Dillingham and a declining Rudy Gobert and effed up our salary cap in the process.
He's not the one who gave away KAT for 2 mediocre to bad players.

[Klomp]

Jenkins is fantastic both from an X's and O's and player development perspective.
Jenkins came back from 25 points down in the 2nd half 3 times in a playoff series against Finch and there was nothing Finch could do to stop it.

He finds 2nd round picks and other teams leftovers every year and turns them into plus rotation players.
The list is a mile long.
He turned one of the stupid players in the league in Ja Morant into a top 10 performer.

Finch has been very good in player development. He has had success with second round picks and leftovers from other teams, turning them into good rotation players. Before Finch was here, Anthony Edwards was believed to be a stupid player, yet he has turned into one of the league's top players.

You can't use all of these characteristics to prop up Jenkins, yet at the same time knock Finch who has done many of the same things.

[minimus]

MEM have one of the best organization in terms of scouting, player development and coaching. This is exactly the case when HC position is an integral part of organization, not the whole organization.

[younggunsmn]

Jenkins is fantastic both from an X's and O's and player development perspective.
Jenkins came back from 25 points down in the 2nd half 3 times in a playoff series against Finch and there was nothing Finch could do to stop it.

He finds 2nd round picks and other teams leftovers every year and turns them into plus rotation players.
The list is a mile long.
He turned one of the stupid players in the league in Ja Morant into a top 10 performer.

Finch has been very good in player development. He has had success with second round picks and leftovers from other teams, turning them into good rotation players. Before Finch was here, Anthony Edwards was believed to be a stupid player, yet he has turned into one of the league's top players.

You can't use all of these characteristics to prop up Jenkins, yet at the same time knock Finch who has done many of the same things.

I didnt knock Finch in that post, if anything I defended him by saying he doesn't currently have a lot to work with.
Finch hasn't had the same level of success as Jenkins at winning and developing players, but yes Finch has developed some players.
Finch is a middle of the road coach. That's not a terrible thing.

Finch's player development has been more about individual offensive skills though, while Jenkins has been focused on making guys into great teammates and being great in their roles and great at the things those roles require.

And Jenkins teams have consistently kicked Finch's teams butts up and down the court when both teams have been healthy.

What makes Finch hard to judge is when his GM goes out and makes moves to bring in players whose skillsets go against everything he is trying to do.
His system needs a big who can pass and shoot, and TC gives him 2 bigs who can't shoot, one of whom can even dribble.

His defensive scheme needs big switchable guards and TC goes out and drafts a guy who is too small for the league and realistically needed 2-3 years of development anyway before he could step into a competitive rotation.