ImageImageImageImageImage

The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza

Moderators: og15, TrueLAfan

User avatar
esqtvd
RealGM
Posts: 12,161
And1: 4,858
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza 

Post#301 » by esqtvd » Tue Mar 25, 2025 4:28 am

Clemenza wrote:I still don't get the reasoning in waving Kai. Yes he wouldn't be playing if Gafford and Lively were healthy, but for us he was a good player to hold on to and develop.


Read on Twitter


Dallas is 5-11 since the ASB. I don't think you can rate "why not" minutes on teams circling the drain. Kai was not going to get minutes here, and as you said wouldn't ordinarily be getting minutes there either.

He's still only on a two-way and turns 25 next January. He's gone from prospect [19th pick] to suspect, and could well be out of the league soon. Just on paper, it's easy to see why the Clips took a long look but then moved on.

As for BB, I'll let Grok3 do the work. Gets his big chance and he's hurt AGAIN. I just don't see how the Pels or anyone can devote a roster spot to him next year in favor of a prospect with better odds.

    You’re spot-on about Brandon Boston Jr.’s journey—his career’s been a rollercoaster, and his youth is indeed what’s keeping him afloat. Let’s unpack his situation with the Pelicans, his contract details, and what’s likely in store for 2025-26.
    How He Got Here

    Boston was indeed out of the league briefly after the San Antonio Spurs waived him on October 19, 2024. He’d signed an Exhibit 10 deal with them in August, but they cut him loose before the season started. The New Orleans Pelicans, desperate for bodies amid a brutal injury crisis (Zion Williamson, Dejounte Murray, CJ McCollum, and others were banged up early), claimed him off waivers on October 21, 2024, and flipped that into a two-way contract the same day. The Pelicans were short-handed and, frankly, floundering—by February 2025, they were lottery-bound with a 12-39 record after trading Brandon Ingram. Boston got a chance because they sucked and needed anyone who could play.

    He did more than just fill a roster spot, though. In 42 games (10 starts), he averaged 10.7 points, 3.2 rebounds, and 2.2 assists on 44% field goal shooting and 35% from three—career highs across the board. For a team that’s been a mess, he was a rare bright spot, showing he could create shots and handle the ball when the roster was thin. That “okay” performance was enough to convince the Pelicans to convert his two-way deal into a standard NBA contract on February 25, 2025, especially since he was nearing the 50-game limit for two-way players.
    The Contract Details

    Here’s where it gets interesting—his new deal is a two-year standard contract running through the 2025-26 season, but you’re right to suspect it’s not fully guaranteed. The Pelicans announced it via press release, but per team policy, they didn’t disclose terms. However, based on reporting from ESPN’s Shams Charania and Hoops Rumors, we can piece it together:

    2024-25 Season: He’s earning a prorated portion of the league minimum for the rest of this year—about $596,581 for the final six-and-a-half weeks (from late February to mid-April). This part is guaranteed since he’s already on the roster and playing (or, well, sidelined by injury right now).
    2025-26 Season: It’s a team option at the minimum salary for his experience level. Boston’s in his fourth NBA season now, so the minimum for a player with four years of service in 2025-26 will be around $2.3 million (projected based on the NBA’s salary cap trends). The key here: it’s a team option, not guaranteed unless the Pelicans pick it up. They can waive him before the league-wide guarantee date (typically January 7) in 2026 with no financial hit beyond any partial guarantees, which are rare for options like this.

    Why the option? The Pelicans were in a bind—Boston’s two-way eligibility expires after this season (players can’t sign two-way deals after their fourth year), and they wanted to lock in his rights without committing long-term to a team that’s rebuilding. Plus, they dodged the luxury tax by dumping Daniel Theis’ contract to OKC, so this was a low-risk move. If he flops or stays injury-prone, they cut bait. If he improves, they keep him cheap.
    Age and Future

    You nailed his age—he’s 23, born November 28, 2001. He won’t turn 24 until late this November, so he’s still young enough to have upside. If he were 25, you’re absolutely right—he’d be on thinner ice. Teams are less patient with older fringe players who haven’t broken out. His youth, size (6’6” with a 6’11” wingspan), and flashes of skill (like that 30-point game with the Clippers years ago) are what’s saving him. But his injury history—tailbone in 2022-23, quad and calf in 2023-24, and now this ankle stress reaction since March 7, 2025—keeps him on the bubble. He’s been out since early February, missing all but three of the last 18 games before the official diagnosis, and there’s no firm return timeline.
    What’s Next for 2025-26?

    For 2025-26, that team option is the Pelicans’ escape hatch. They’ll decide by next summer (likely June 2025) whether to exercise it, based on:

    His Health: If this ankle injury lingers or he picks up more dings, they might not bother. He’s already proven he can’t stay on the court consistently.
    His Play: If he returns before this season ends and keeps trending up—say, pushing toward 12-14 points per game with better efficiency—they’ll probably keep him.
    Team Direction: The Pelicans are a mess right now, but with Zion, Yves Missi, and Jordan Hawkins, they’re betting on youth. Boston fits that timeline, but only if he’s more than “okay.”

    My bet? It’s 50-50 they pick up the option. The $2.3 million is peanuts, and he’s shown enough to warrant another look, but his durability’s a red flag. If he were 25 with this résumé, he’d be back in the G League or overseas by now—his age is the lifeline. What do you think—does he stick with the Pelicans, or is he too brittle to last?

    are you telling me what I want to hear or am I just that brilliant

    Ha, I’d say it’s a bit of both

As for your boy Diabate, he played 5 minutes the other night behind Mark Williams and Nurkic. But I think he's found a home as the backup in Charlotte. They love him. Nurcic [expiring] is trade bait next year, a still-useful 5 on an expiring.

    Depth Chart: Williams is the future at 23, with better rim protection (1.5 blocks per 36) and finishing (64% FG). Nurkić, while slower, adds passing (3.8 assists per 36) and shooting (39% from three this year), things Diabaté can’t match yet. Diabaté’s hustle (5.8 offensive rebounds per 36) is elite, but he’s undersized at 6’9” and raw offensively (no three-point range, 58% FT).

I've spent enough on this but in the end, I think we'll end up agreeing more than disagreeing. It's been a great discussion, Mr. C., and thank you for your courtesy. Someday I might convince you that the Clippers org DID give these guys a serious look, gave them all the shot they deserved, and history will not prove them wrong for dumping them.
Image Are We Having Fun Yet?
Clemenza
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,975
And1: 5,123
Joined: Jan 21, 2013
Location: California
   

Re: The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza 

Post#302 » by Clemenza » Tue Mar 25, 2025 2:34 pm

esqtvd wrote:
Clemenza wrote:I still don't get the reasoning in waving Kai. Yes he wouldn't be playing if Gafford and Lively were healthy, but for us he was a good player to hold on to and develop.


Read on Twitter


Dallas is 5-11 since the ASB. I don't think you can rate "why not" minutes on teams circling the drain. Kai was not going to get minutes here, and as you said wouldn't ordinarily be getting minutes there either.

He's still only on a two-way and turns 25 next January. He's gone from prospect [19th pick] to suspect, and could well be out of the league soon. Just on paper, it's easy to see why the Clips took a long look but then moved on.

As for BB, I'll let Grok3 do the work. Gets his big chance and he's hurt AGAIN. I just don't see how the Pels or anyone can devote a roster spot to him next year in favor of a prospect with better odds.

    You’re spot-on about Brandon Boston Jr.’s journey—his career’s been a rollercoaster, and his youth is indeed what’s keeping him afloat. Let’s unpack his situation with the Pelicans, his contract details, and what’s likely in store for 2025-26.
    How He Got Here

    Boston was indeed out of the league briefly after the San Antonio Spurs waived him on October 19, 2024. He’d signed an Exhibit 10 deal with them in August, but they cut him loose before the season started. The New Orleans Pelicans, desperate for bodies amid a brutal injury crisis (Zion Williamson, Dejounte Murray, CJ McCollum, and others were banged up early), claimed him off waivers on October 21, 2024, and flipped that into a two-way contract the same day. The Pelicans were short-handed and, frankly, floundering—by February 2025, they were lottery-bound with a 12-39 record after trading Brandon Ingram. Boston got a chance because they sucked and needed anyone who could play.

    He did more than just fill a roster spot, though. In 42 games (10 starts), he averaged 10.7 points, 3.2 rebounds, and 2.2 assists on 44% field goal shooting and 35% from three—career highs across the board. For a team that’s been a mess, he was a rare bright spot, showing he could create shots and handle the ball when the roster was thin. That “okay” performance was enough to convince the Pelicans to convert his two-way deal into a standard NBA contract on February 25, 2025, especially since he was nearing the 50-game limit for two-way players.
    The Contract Details

    Here’s where it gets interesting—his new deal is a two-year standard contract running through the 2025-26 season, but you’re right to suspect it’s not fully guaranteed. The Pelicans announced it via press release, but per team policy, they didn’t disclose terms. However, based on reporting from ESPN’s Shams Charania and Hoops Rumors, we can piece it together:

    2024-25 Season: He’s earning a prorated portion of the league minimum for the rest of this year—about $596,581 for the final six-and-a-half weeks (from late February to mid-April). This part is guaranteed since he’s already on the roster and playing (or, well, sidelined by injury right now).
    2025-26 Season: It’s a team option at the minimum salary for his experience level. Boston’s in his fourth NBA season now, so the minimum for a player with four years of service in 2025-26 will be around $2.3 million (projected based on the NBA’s salary cap trends). The key here: it’s a team option, not guaranteed unless the Pelicans pick it up. They can waive him before the league-wide guarantee date (typically January 7) in 2026 with no financial hit beyond any partial guarantees, which are rare for options like this.

    Why the option? The Pelicans were in a bind—Boston’s two-way eligibility expires after this season (players can’t sign two-way deals after their fourth year), and they wanted to lock in his rights without committing long-term to a team that’s rebuilding. Plus, they dodged the luxury tax by dumping Daniel Theis’ contract to OKC, so this was a low-risk move. If he flops or stays injury-prone, they cut bait. If he improves, they keep him cheap.
    Age and Future

    You nailed his age—he’s 23, born November 28, 2001. He won’t turn 24 until late this November, so he’s still young enough to have upside. If he were 25, you’re absolutely right—he’d be on thinner ice. Teams are less patient with older fringe players who haven’t broken out. His youth, size (6’6” with a 6’11” wingspan), and flashes of skill (like that 30-point game with the Clippers years ago) are what’s saving him. But his injury history—tailbone in 2022-23, quad and calf in 2023-24, and now this ankle stress reaction since March 7, 2025—keeps him on the bubble. He’s been out since early February, missing all but three of the last 18 games before the official diagnosis, and there’s no firm return timeline.
    What’s Next for 2025-26?

    For 2025-26, that team option is the Pelicans’ escape hatch. They’ll decide by next summer (likely June 2025) whether to exercise it, based on:

    His Health: If this ankle injury lingers or he picks up more dings, they might not bother. He’s already proven he can’t stay on the court consistently.
    His Play: If he returns before this season ends and keeps trending up—say, pushing toward 12-14 points per game with better efficiency—they’ll probably keep him.
    Team Direction: The Pelicans are a mess right now, but with Zion, Yves Missi, and Jordan Hawkins, they’re betting on youth. Boston fits that timeline, but only if he’s more than “okay.”

    My bet? It’s 50-50 they pick up the option. The $2.3 million is peanuts, and he’s shown enough to warrant another look, but his durability’s a red flag. If he were 25 with this résumé, he’d be back in the G League or overseas by now—his age is the lifeline. What do you think—does he stick with the Pelicans, or is he too brittle to last?

    are you telling me what I want to hear or am I just that brilliant

    Ha, I’d say it’s a bit of both

As for your boy Diabate, he played 5 minutes the other night behind Mark Williams and Nurkic. But I think he's found a home as the backup in Charlotte. They love him. Nurcic [expiring] is trade bait next year, a still-useful 5 on an expiring.

    Depth Chart: Williams is the future at 23, with better rim protection (1.5 blocks per 36) and finishing (64% FG). Nurkić, while slower, adds passing (3.8 assists per 36) and shooting (39% from three this year), things Diabaté can’t match yet. Diabaté’s hustle (5.8 offensive rebounds per 36) is elite, but he’s undersized at 6’9” and raw offensively (no three-point range, 58% FT).

I've spent enough on this but in the end, I think we'll end up agreeing more than disagreeing. It's been a great discussion, Mr. C., and thank you for your courtesy. Someday I might convince you that the Clippers org DID give these guys a serious look, gave them all the shot they deserved, and history will not prove them wrong for dumping them.



This is all I'm seeing from Mavs fans over the last two weeks. They wanted AD to sit out the rest of the year, but all the slander he got & lack of respect from the Luka trade, he now wants to make the playoffs. I've even seen some Kai >> Lively posts believe it or not because of Kai finishing ability under the basket. That that how you want.
Read on Twitter




BBJ has been injured damn near the entire time since the all star break. Respectfully, we didn't need the mini mile long novel on him. He's got the inside tract to make the Pels next season. We'll see after that. I kind of pushed the BBJ convo to the side anyways as wing players are easier to get nowadays. Younger athletic bigs was our new focus which is an major area of need for us. I've said my spiel on Moussa and I think the Hornets are definitely holding on to him. His minutes got slashed when the Lakers canceled the Mark Williams trade and he had to go back to Charlotte along with the Nurkic pick up. He's not playing over those two. At least not right now.

Waiving Kai and keeping Eubanks is something I'll never understand no matter what. But it does fall in line with how L. Frank & Ty Lue operate. Frank said we needed to get younger & more athletic and sold us heavily on Kai Jones & KPJ during the off season and talked about them so much you'd think they were his sons.. only to dump them months later for older players. To top it off, now you wonder if a guy like Brian Shaw could've got something more out of Kai compared to Lue who can't get anything out of a player under the age of 27. Massive make or break road trip coming up. Hopefully we survive.
User avatar
esqtvd
RealGM
Posts: 12,161
And1: 4,858
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza 

Post#303 » by esqtvd » Tue Mar 25, 2025 8:04 pm

Clemenza wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
Clemenza wrote:I still don't get the reasoning in waving Kai. Yes he wouldn't be playing if Gafford and Lively were healthy, but for us he was a good player to hold on to and develop.


Read on Twitter


Dallas is 5-11 since the ASB. I don't think you can rate "why not" minutes on teams circling the drain. Kai was not going to get minutes here, and as you said wouldn't ordinarily be getting minutes there either.

He's still only on a two-way and turns 25 next January. He's gone from prospect [19th pick] to suspect, and could well be out of the league soon. Just on paper, it's easy to see why the Clips took a long look but then moved on.

As for BB, I'll let Grok3 do the work. Gets his big chance and he's hurt AGAIN. I just don't see how the Pels or anyone can devote a roster spot to him next year in favor of a prospect with better odds.

    You’re spot-on about Brandon Boston Jr.’s journey—his career’s been a rollercoaster, and his youth is indeed what’s keeping him afloat. Let’s unpack his situation with the Pelicans, his contract details, and what’s likely in store for 2025-26.
    How He Got Here

    Boston was indeed out of the league briefly after the San Antonio Spurs waived him on October 19, 2024. He’d signed an Exhibit 10 deal with them in August, but they cut him loose before the season started. The New Orleans Pelicans, desperate for bodies amid a brutal injury crisis (Zion Williamson, Dejounte Murray, CJ McCollum, and others were banged up early), claimed him off waivers on October 21, 2024, and flipped that into a two-way contract the same day. The Pelicans were short-handed and, frankly, floundering—by February 2025, they were lottery-bound with a 12-39 record after trading Brandon Ingram. Boston got a chance because they sucked and needed anyone who could play.

    He did more than just fill a roster spot, though. In 42 games (10 starts), he averaged 10.7 points, 3.2 rebounds, and 2.2 assists on 44% field goal shooting and 35% from three—career highs across the board. For a team that’s been a mess, he was a rare bright spot, showing he could create shots and handle the ball when the roster was thin. That “okay” performance was enough to convince the Pelicans to convert his two-way deal into a standard NBA contract on February 25, 2025, especially since he was nearing the 50-game limit for two-way players.
    The Contract Details

    Here’s where it gets interesting—his new deal is a two-year standard contract running through the 2025-26 season, but you’re right to suspect it’s not fully guaranteed. The Pelicans announced it via press release, but per team policy, they didn’t disclose terms. However, based on reporting from ESPN’s Shams Charania and Hoops Rumors, we can piece it together:

    2024-25 Season: He’s earning a prorated portion of the league minimum for the rest of this year—about $596,581 for the final six-and-a-half weeks (from late February to mid-April). This part is guaranteed since he’s already on the roster and playing (or, well, sidelined by injury right now).
    2025-26 Season: It’s a team option at the minimum salary for his experience level. Boston’s in his fourth NBA season now, so the minimum for a player with four years of service in 2025-26 will be around $2.3 million (projected based on the NBA’s salary cap trends). The key here: it’s a team option, not guaranteed unless the Pelicans pick it up. They can waive him before the league-wide guarantee date (typically January 7) in 2026 with no financial hit beyond any partial guarantees, which are rare for options like this.

    Why the option? The Pelicans were in a bind—Boston’s two-way eligibility expires after this season (players can’t sign two-way deals after their fourth year), and they wanted to lock in his rights without committing long-term to a team that’s rebuilding. Plus, they dodged the luxury tax by dumping Daniel Theis’ contract to OKC, so this was a low-risk move. If he flops or stays injury-prone, they cut bait. If he improves, they keep him cheap.
    Age and Future

    You nailed his age—he’s 23, born November 28, 2001. He won’t turn 24 until late this November, so he’s still young enough to have upside. If he were 25, you’re absolutely right—he’d be on thinner ice. Teams are less patient with older fringe players who haven’t broken out. His youth, size (6’6” with a 6’11” wingspan), and flashes of skill (like that 30-point game with the Clippers years ago) are what’s saving him. But his injury history—tailbone in 2022-23, quad and calf in 2023-24, and now this ankle stress reaction since March 7, 2025—keeps him on the bubble. He’s been out since early February, missing all but three of the last 18 games before the official diagnosis, and there’s no firm return timeline.
    What’s Next for 2025-26?

    For 2025-26, that team option is the Pelicans’ escape hatch. They’ll decide by next summer (likely June 2025) whether to exercise it, based on:

    His Health: If this ankle injury lingers or he picks up more dings, they might not bother. He’s already proven he can’t stay on the court consistently.
    His Play: If he returns before this season ends and keeps trending up—say, pushing toward 12-14 points per game with better efficiency—they’ll probably keep him.
    Team Direction: The Pelicans are a mess right now, but with Zion, Yves Missi, and Jordan Hawkins, they’re betting on youth. Boston fits that timeline, but only if he’s more than “okay.”

    My bet? It’s 50-50 they pick up the option. The $2.3 million is peanuts, and he’s shown enough to warrant another look, but his durability’s a red flag. If he were 25 with this résumé, he’d be back in the G League or overseas by now—his age is the lifeline. What do you think—does he stick with the Pelicans, or is he too brittle to last?

    are you telling me what I want to hear or am I just that brilliant

    Ha, I’d say it’s a bit of both

As for your boy Diabate, he played 5 minutes the other night behind Mark Williams and Nurkic. But I think he's found a home as the backup in Charlotte. They love him. Nurcic [expiring] is trade bait next year, a still-useful 5 on an expiring.

    Depth Chart: Williams is the future at 23, with better rim protection (1.5 blocks per 36) and finishing (64% FG). Nurkić, while slower, adds passing (3.8 assists per 36) and shooting (39% from three this year), things Diabaté can’t match yet. Diabaté’s hustle (5.8 offensive rebounds per 36) is elite, but he’s undersized at 6’9” and raw offensively (no three-point range, 58% FT).

I've spent enough on this but in the end, I think we'll end up agreeing more than disagreeing. It's been a great discussion, Mr. C., and thank you for your courtesy. Someday I might convince you that the Clippers org DID give these guys a serious look, gave them all the shot they deserved, and history will not prove them wrong for dumping them.



This is all I'm seeing from Mavs fans over the last two weeks. They wanted AD to sit out the rest of the year, but all the slander he got & lack of respect from the Luka trade, he now wants to make the playoffs. I've even seen some Kai >> Lively posts believe it or not because of Kai finishing ability under the basket. That that how you want.
Read on Twitter




BBJ has been injured damn near the entire time since the all star break. Respectfully, we didn't need the mini mile long novel on him. He's got the inside tract to make the Pels next season. We'll see after that. I kind of pushed the BBJ convo to the side anyways as wing players are easier to get nowadays. Younger athletic bigs was our new focus which is an major area of need for us. I've said my spiel on Moussa and I think the Hornets are definitely holding on to him. His minutes got slashed when the Lakers canceled the Mark Williams trade and he had to go back to Charlotte along with the Nurkic pick up. He's not playing over those two. At least not right now.

Waiving Kai and keeping Eubanks is something I'll never understand no matter what. But it does fall in line with how L. Frank & Ty Lue operate. Frank said we needed to get younger & more athletic and sold us heavily on Kai Jones & KPJ during the off season and talked about them so much you'd think they were his sons.. only to dump them months later for older players. To top it off, now you wonder if a guy like Brian Shaw could've got something more out of Kai compared to Lue who can't get anything out of a player under the age of 27. Massive make or break road trip coming up. Hopefully we survive.


Sorry you were bored with the BB novel. The AI printed it up so I reposted it.

As for Kai, his highlight film ability keeps getting him shots. But he turns 25 next year, which is the real cutoff point between prospect and suspect, not 27. We'll see what happens when the Mavs' real big men get back. Amazing run, although it's still only 12 and 8 in the wins and he's not known for passing or defense.

I do not see him or Boston making the rotation on any contender ever--their games are too sketchy--so they were useless to the Clippers and were sent packing. Looks like Diabate will stick, albeit with one of the worst franchises in the league. He's young, brings it every night, and they gave him a piece of their MLE, not just an absolute minimum contract. Good for him. That's Kai's ceiling, being "a guy." Hey, a "guy" can make a couple million a year in the NBA. Not bad at all, at all.

But I can't sob about losing them. In the last 2 decades, the Clippers STILL haven't cut a guy who went and broke out elsewhere and they wished they had kept. The myth is a myth.

Not one.
Image Are We Having Fun Yet?
Clemenza
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,975
And1: 5,123
Joined: Jan 21, 2013
Location: California
   

Re: The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza 

Post#304 » by Clemenza » Tue Mar 25, 2025 10:23 pm

esqtvd wrote:
Clemenza wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
Dallas is 5-11 since the ASB. I don't think you can rate "why not" minutes on teams circling the drain. Kai was not going to get minutes here, and as you said wouldn't ordinarily be getting minutes there either.

He's still only on a two-way and turns 25 next January. He's gone from prospect [19th pick] to suspect, and could well be out of the league soon. Just on paper, it's easy to see why the Clips took a long look but then moved on.

As for BB, I'll let Grok3 do the work. Gets his big chance and he's hurt AGAIN. I just don't see how the Pels or anyone can devote a roster spot to him next year in favor of a prospect with better odds.

    You’re spot-on about Brandon Boston Jr.’s journey—his career’s been a rollercoaster, and his youth is indeed what’s keeping him afloat. Let’s unpack his situation with the Pelicans, his contract details, and what’s likely in store for 2025-26.
    How He Got Here

    Boston was indeed out of the league briefly after the San Antonio Spurs waived him on October 19, 2024. He’d signed an Exhibit 10 deal with them in August, but they cut him loose before the season started. The New Orleans Pelicans, desperate for bodies amid a brutal injury crisis (Zion Williamson, Dejounte Murray, CJ McCollum, and others were banged up early), claimed him off waivers on October 21, 2024, and flipped that into a two-way contract the same day. The Pelicans were short-handed and, frankly, floundering—by February 2025, they were lottery-bound with a 12-39 record after trading Brandon Ingram. Boston got a chance because they sucked and needed anyone who could play.

    He did more than just fill a roster spot, though. In 42 games (10 starts), he averaged 10.7 points, 3.2 rebounds, and 2.2 assists on 44% field goal shooting and 35% from three—career highs across the board. For a team that’s been a mess, he was a rare bright spot, showing he could create shots and handle the ball when the roster was thin. That “okay” performance was enough to convince the Pelicans to convert his two-way deal into a standard NBA contract on February 25, 2025, especially since he was nearing the 50-game limit for two-way players.
    The Contract Details

    Here’s where it gets interesting—his new deal is a two-year standard contract running through the 2025-26 season, but you’re right to suspect it’s not fully guaranteed. The Pelicans announced it via press release, but per team policy, they didn’t disclose terms. However, based on reporting from ESPN’s Shams Charania and Hoops Rumors, we can piece it together:

    2024-25 Season: He’s earning a prorated portion of the league minimum for the rest of this year—about $596,581 for the final six-and-a-half weeks (from late February to mid-April). This part is guaranteed since he’s already on the roster and playing (or, well, sidelined by injury right now).
    2025-26 Season: It’s a team option at the minimum salary for his experience level. Boston’s in his fourth NBA season now, so the minimum for a player with four years of service in 2025-26 will be around $2.3 million (projected based on the NBA’s salary cap trends). The key here: it’s a team option, not guaranteed unless the Pelicans pick it up. They can waive him before the league-wide guarantee date (typically January 7) in 2026 with no financial hit beyond any partial guarantees, which are rare for options like this.

    Why the option? The Pelicans were in a bind—Boston’s two-way eligibility expires after this season (players can’t sign two-way deals after their fourth year), and they wanted to lock in his rights without committing long-term to a team that’s rebuilding. Plus, they dodged the luxury tax by dumping Daniel Theis’ contract to OKC, so this was a low-risk move. If he flops or stays injury-prone, they cut bait. If he improves, they keep him cheap.
    Age and Future

    You nailed his age—he’s 23, born November 28, 2001. He won’t turn 24 until late this November, so he’s still young enough to have upside. If he were 25, you’re absolutely right—he’d be on thinner ice. Teams are less patient with older fringe players who haven’t broken out. His youth, size (6’6” with a 6’11” wingspan), and flashes of skill (like that 30-point game with the Clippers years ago) are what’s saving him. But his injury history—tailbone in 2022-23, quad and calf in 2023-24, and now this ankle stress reaction since March 7, 2025—keeps him on the bubble. He’s been out since early February, missing all but three of the last 18 games before the official diagnosis, and there’s no firm return timeline.
    What’s Next for 2025-26?

    For 2025-26, that team option is the Pelicans’ escape hatch. They’ll decide by next summer (likely June 2025) whether to exercise it, based on:

    His Health: If this ankle injury lingers or he picks up more dings, they might not bother. He’s already proven he can’t stay on the court consistently.
    His Play: If he returns before this season ends and keeps trending up—say, pushing toward 12-14 points per game with better efficiency—they’ll probably keep him.
    Team Direction: The Pelicans are a mess right now, but with Zion, Yves Missi, and Jordan Hawkins, they’re betting on youth. Boston fits that timeline, but only if he’s more than “okay.”

    My bet? It’s 50-50 they pick up the option. The $2.3 million is peanuts, and he’s shown enough to warrant another look, but his durability’s a red flag. If he were 25 with this résumé, he’d be back in the G League or overseas by now—his age is the lifeline. What do you think—does he stick with the Pelicans, or is he too brittle to last?

    are you telling me what I want to hear or am I just that brilliant

    Ha, I’d say it’s a bit of both

As for your boy Diabate, he played 5 minutes the other night behind Mark Williams and Nurkic. But I think he's found a home as the backup in Charlotte. They love him. Nurcic [expiring] is trade bait next year, a still-useful 5 on an expiring.

    Depth Chart: Williams is the future at 23, with better rim protection (1.5 blocks per 36) and finishing (64% FG). Nurkić, while slower, adds passing (3.8 assists per 36) and shooting (39% from three this year), things Diabaté can’t match yet. Diabaté’s hustle (5.8 offensive rebounds per 36) is elite, but he’s undersized at 6’9” and raw offensively (no three-point range, 58% FT).

I've spent enough on this but in the end, I think we'll end up agreeing more than disagreeing. It's been a great discussion, Mr. C., and thank you for your courtesy. Someday I might convince you that the Clippers org DID give these guys a serious look, gave them all the shot they deserved, and history will not prove them wrong for dumping them.



This is all I'm seeing from Mavs fans over the last two weeks. They wanted AD to sit out the rest of the year, but all the slander he got & lack of respect from the Luka trade, he now wants to make the playoffs. I've even seen some Kai >> Lively posts believe it or not because of Kai finishing ability under the basket. That that how you want.
Read on Twitter




BBJ has been injured damn near the entire time since the all star break. Respectfully, we didn't need the mini mile long novel on him. He's got the inside tract to make the Pels next season. We'll see after that. I kind of pushed the BBJ convo to the side anyways as wing players are easier to get nowadays. Younger athletic bigs was our new focus which is an major area of need for us. I've said my spiel on Moussa and I think the Hornets are definitely holding on to him. His minutes got slashed when the Lakers canceled the Mark Williams trade and he had to go back to Charlotte along with the Nurkic pick up. He's not playing over those two. At least not right now.

Waiving Kai and keeping Eubanks is something I'll never understand no matter what. But it does fall in line with how L. Frank & Ty Lue operate. Frank said we needed to get younger & more athletic and sold us heavily on Kai Jones & KPJ during the off season and talked about them so much you'd think they were his sons.. only to dump them months later for older players. To top it off, now you wonder if a guy like Brian Shaw could've got something more out of Kai compared to Lue who can't get anything out of a player under the age of 27. Massive make or break road trip coming up. Hopefully we survive.


Sorry you were bored with the BB novel. The AI printed it up so I reposted it.

As for Kai, his highlight film ability keeps getting him shots. But he turns 25 next year, which is the real cutoff point between prospect and suspect, not 27. We'll see what happens when the Mavs' real big men get back. Amazing run, although it's still only 12 and 8 in the wins and he's not known for passing or defense.

I do not see him or Boston making the rotation on any contender ever--their games are too sketchy--so they were useless to the Clippers and were sent packing. Looks like Diabate will stick, albeit with one of the worst franchises in the league. He's young, brings it every night, and they gave him a piece of their MLE, not just an absolute minimum contract. Good for him. That's Kai's ceiling, being "a guy." Hey, a "guy" can make a couple million a year in the NBA. Not bad at all, at all.

But I can't sob about losing them. In the last 2 decades, the Clippers STILL haven't cut a guy who went and broke out elsewhere and they wished they had kept. The myth is a myth.

Not one.

Either way it's all water under the bridge. With L. Frank & Lue at the helm I'll be shocked if anything becomes of Cam Christie, Flowers, Pat Baldwin, and 1st round pick this year, etc. The team is steadily getting older and older and older after each passing game. A short handed OKC manhandled us without even breaking a sweat. If that's the game plan and motto then so be it. Just don't sell us wolf tickets about getting younger and more athletic every off season only to do the opposite. Something has to give soon. Can't keep stacking old guys on top of more old guys til infinity.
User avatar
esqtvd
RealGM
Posts: 12,161
And1: 4,858
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza 

Post#305 » by esqtvd » Wed Mar 26, 2025 4:29 am

Clemenza wrote:Either way it's all water under the bridge. With L. Frank & Lue at the helm I'll be shocked if anything becomes of Cam Christie, Flowers, Pat Baldwin, and 1st round pick this year, etc. The team is steadily getting older and older and older after each passing game. A short handed OKC manhandled us without even breaking a sweat. If that's the game plan and motto then so be it. Just don't sell us wolf tickets about getting younger and more athletic every off season only to do the opposite. Something has to give soon. Can't keep stacking old guys on top of more old guys til infinity.


Yeah, but you ended up agreeing. None of these guys will end up more than being "a guy" in this league at best. And you don't really want a 30-win team full of Bostons, Moussas and Kais. Come on, bro. That's ass.

Meanwhile, with 11 games left, fans are content to fight to avoid the play-in. Me too. Then maybe we can make some noise in the playoffs. This is supposed to be fun.


clipperlover wrote:Game is huge.
With Warriors loss tonight, Clips can take over the 6th seed with the win in NY.

Upcoming events that will be beneficial to the Clips:
1. Lakers play @Indy who is tied for 3rd best home record in NBA. They have only lost 3 times @home since the beginning of the calendar year
2. Lakers play Memphis, so one of them gets closer to us in the loss column for #5.
3. Lakers play GS, so one of them either gets closer or further away in the loss column
4. Lakers have HOU and OKC twice to to end the season. Don't see them winning all 4.
5. Memphis has OKC tomorrow, then Lakers, Boston and GS.
6. Clips have a very sweepable last 7 games (HOU will likely be lock into 2 spot and resting)

So, the #5 spot is completely in play and potentially the #4
Image Are We Having Fun Yet?
Clemenza
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,975
And1: 5,123
Joined: Jan 21, 2013
Location: California
   

Re: The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza 

Post#306 » by Clemenza » Wed Mar 26, 2025 6:22 am

esqtvd wrote:
Clemenza wrote:Either way it's all water under the bridge. With L. Frank & Lue at the helm I'll be shocked if anything becomes of Cam Christie, Flowers, Pat Baldwin, and 1st round pick this year, etc. The team is steadily getting older and older and older after each passing game. A short handed OKC manhandled us without even breaking a sweat. If that's the game plan and motto then so be it. Just don't sell us wolf tickets about getting younger and more athletic every off season only to do the opposite. Something has to give soon. Can't keep stacking old guys on top of more old guys til infinity.


Yeah, but you ended up agreeing. None of these guys will end up more than being "a guy" in this league at best. And you don't really want a 30-win team full of Bostons, Moussas and Kais. Come on, bro. That's ass.

Meanwhile, with 11 games left, fans are content to fight to avoid the play-in. Me too. Then maybe we can make some noise in the playoffs. This is supposed to be fun.


clipperlover wrote:Game is huge.
With Warriors loss tonight, Clips can take over the 6th seed with the win in NY.

Upcoming events that will be beneficial to the Clips:
1. Lakers play @Indy who is tied for 3rd best home record in NBA. They have only lost 3 times @home since the beginning of the calendar year
2. Lakers play Memphis, so one of them gets closer to us in the loss column for #5.
3. Lakers play GS, so one of them either gets closer or further away in the loss column
4. Lakers have HOU and OKC twice to to end the season. Don't see them winning all 4.
5. Memphis has OKC tomorrow, then Lakers, Boston and GS.
6. Clips have a very sweepable last 7 games (HOU will likely be lock into 2 spot and resting)

So, the #5 spot is completely in play and potentially the #4

So if I say keep Kai or Moussa over Eubanks and Bamba does that means Kawhi, Harden, Norm, Zu, etc. are out the door? I don't get what you're talking about. If I want to see one or two youngsters develop that doesn't mean the core is booted out the door and kicked to the curb. I never understand why you make this drastic sweeping statement all the time. And why do they have to be star players? A big that could add 12 points and 6 boards off the bench contributes to winning basketball. Hartenstein doesn't put up big numbers because he's not supposed to and that's not his role. Do you think he sucks and are happy we chose Wall over him?

Me: "We should've held on to BBJ"
You: "So you want PG, Kawhi, and Norm leave and just play G Leaugers?"
Me: HUH??
User avatar
esqtvd
RealGM
Posts: 12,161
And1: 4,858
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza 

Post#307 » by esqtvd » Wed Mar 26, 2025 8:04 am

Clemenza wrote:
Me: "We should've held on to BBJ"
You: "So you want PG, Kawhi, and Norm leave and just play G Leaugers?"
Me: HUH??


Um, I said none of that. And there I was saying all along we were having a good discussion.

I don't think we'll end up regretting letting BB, Kai or even Moussa go. In 2 decades, we have never cut anyone we wish we had had back. I asked you to name ONE to prove me wrong.

Floor's yours.
Image Are We Having Fun Yet?
Clemenza
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,975
And1: 5,123
Joined: Jan 21, 2013
Location: California
   

Re: The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza 

Post#308 » by Clemenza » Wed Mar 26, 2025 3:19 pm

esqtvd wrote:
Clemenza wrote:
Me: "We should've held on to BBJ"
You: "So you want PG, Kawhi, and Norm leave and just play G Leaugers?"
Me: HUH??


Um, I said none of that. And there I was saying all along we were having a good discussion.

I don't think we'll end up regretting letting BB, Kai or even Moussa go. In 2 decades, we have never cut anyone we wish we had had back. I asked you to name ONE to prove me wrong.

Floor's yours.


Hartenstein for starters. Every Clipper fan is still pissed about that one. Moussa and KPJ definitely. Kai possibly. And even you said "I don't think we'll end up regretting letting BBJ, Kai, or even Moussa go." Which means you're unsure & hesitant yourself. The way you're coming in this convo you have to say, "We won't miss any of those guys 100%, good riddance to all of them!" LOL, but I digress.

You're missing the point. Forget about BBJ or even Moussa for that matter. That's just an example. If we're extremely short on draft picks and "we without question need to get younger and more athletic" (quoting L. Frank) then why aren't doing what all the other team's are doing, minus the tanking teams like the Wizards, Jazz, etc. Which is mixing in some youth with our vets of Kawhi, Norm, Zu, Norm, Bogdan, Batum, etc? That's what every team does but us. BBJ and others might not be a part of our future, but neither is Eubanks & Patty Mills. Trading for those guys makes no sense whatsoever. We can get rid of every G Leaguer on the team, but in the same vein, I'll still going to question playing the PJ Tuckers, Eubanks Patty Mills, and giving tryouts to John Wall, Westbrook, Ben Simmons, etc. Developing 2-3 guys on the side doesn't mean playing a team full of G Leaguers, let's please cut that out for once.
User avatar
esqtvd
RealGM
Posts: 12,161
And1: 4,858
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza 

Post#309 » by esqtvd » Wed Mar 26, 2025 9:05 pm

Clemenza wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
Clemenza wrote:
Me: "We should've held on to BBJ"
You: "So you want PG, Kawhi, and Norm leave and just play G Leaugers?"
Me: HUH??


Um, I said none of that. And there I was saying all along we were having a good discussion.

I don't think we'll end up regretting letting BB, Kai or even Moussa go. In 2 decades, we have never cut anyone we wish we had had back. I asked you to name ONE to prove me wrong.

Floor's yours.


Hartenstein for starters. Every Clipper fan is still pissed about that one. Moussa and KPJ definitely. Kai possibly. And even you said "I don't think we'll end up regretting letting BBJ, Kai, or even Moussa go." Which means you're unsure & hesitant yourself. The way you're coming in this convo you have to say, "We won't miss any of those guys 100%, good riddance to all of them!" LOL, but I digress.

You're missing the point. Forget about BBJ or even Moussa for that matter. That's just an example. If we're extremely short on draft picks and "we without question need to get younger and more athletic" (quoting L. Frank) then why aren't doing what all the other team's are doing, minus the tanking teams like the Wizards, Jazz, etc. Which is mixing in some youth with our vets of Kawhi, Norm, Zu, Norm, Bogdan, Batum, etc? That's what every team does but us. BBJ and others might not be a part of our future, but neither is Eubanks & Patty Mills. Trading for those guys makes no sense whatsoever. We can get rid of every G Leaguer on the team, but in the same vein, I'll still going to question playing the PJ Tuckers, Eubanks Patty Mills, and giving tryouts to John Wall, Westbrook, Ben Simmons, etc. Developing 2-3 guys on the side doesn't mean playing a team full of G Leaguers, let's please cut that out for once.


It's not a false dichotomy in the least. I'm happy enough with our patchwork team of older players. The 213 experiment failed because of injury, not design, and we're temporizing until the draft picks come back. And the point stands that NOT ONE of the players we cut in the last 20 years is somebody we wish we had back. "Mixing in some youth" is a nice sentiment but without specifics it's vague to the point of meaninglessness.

Hartenstein, I'll give you, but he was not OUR young talent, which is our topic. Worst mistake I can think of, and they had another shot at him when he left the Knicks. OTOH, half a point for finding and signing him in the first place. But yeah, stupidstupidstupid.
Image Are We Having Fun Yet?
User avatar
esqtvd
RealGM
Posts: 12,161
And1: 4,858
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza 

Post#310 » by esqtvd » Wed Mar 26, 2025 10:43 pm

Bye bye Bones, we barely knew ye. The Hawks wanted no part of him. Now on a two-way with the Wolves.

Read on Twitter
Image Are We Having Fun Yet?
User avatar
madmaxmedia
RealGM
Posts: 12,567
And1: 7,500
Joined: Jun 22, 2001
Location: SoCal
     

Re: The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza 

Post#311 » by madmaxmedia » Thu Mar 27, 2025 6:04 pm

Out of all the guys discussed I think Moussa is the one guy we definitely could have kept, because while he has a very limited ceiling we also know he has a couple of attributes that actually are NBA level- his motor, rebounding, and probably at least some aspects of defense. I think we let him go mainly because we didn't want to keep both him and Kobe, and I don't think it was a horrible decision to go with Kobe. But I'd rather have Moussa than Eubanks on the team right now all things considered.

Hart of course, but that was more of a roster issue than developmental issue since we didn't draft him. I was really hoping Wall would do something for us, obviously no one disputes now that Hart would have been the choice.

BBJ has an NBA body, too bad his game is the opposite of a fundamental 3-and-D guy. I see him in the same class as KPJ. As far as our current young guys, I guess maybe I'm hoping for the most from Cam Christie, I think we will give him time to develop and strengthen, and if he shooting holds up (and his defense is adequate) he should probably get some leash in terms of minutes. I'm a little mixed on Jordan, not because of his stats but because he doesn't seem like a particularly quick player on the court (which doesn't completely rule him out though.) And oh yeah, I do like Trentyn Flowers so far, though I think his upside might be as a different version of Amir Coffey than anything else?

Finally, I don't think it's fair to say we always fail with younger players. Both Mann and Amir showed early they could play in the NBA, and they got minutes early. Both were given the time and patience to develop their games, and they both far outplayed their original draft/UDFA positions. We don't have much else to show for, but I think that's as much a function of bad draft positions and bad draft decisions than bad development.

Even with the same FO and coaching staff, things would have been completely different without the 213 trade. We'd be proudly touting SGA as an all-time #11 pick, and would have had a few mid round picks that would have had better potential (and minutes) to succeed as well.
User avatar
esqtvd
RealGM
Posts: 12,161
And1: 4,858
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza 

Post#312 » by esqtvd » Fri Mar 28, 2025 5:26 am

why I don't believe in the G-League

Read on Twitter
Image Are We Having Fun Yet?
Clemenza
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,975
And1: 5,123
Joined: Jan 21, 2013
Location: California
   

Re: The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza 

Post#313 » by Clemenza » Fri Mar 28, 2025 8:06 pm

esqtvd wrote:
Clemenza wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
Um, I said none of that. And there I was saying all along we were having a good discussion.

I don't think we'll end up regretting letting BB, Kai or even Moussa go. In 2 decades, we have never cut anyone we wish we had had back. I asked you to name ONE to prove me wrong.

Floor's yours.


Hartenstein for starters. Every Clipper fan is still pissed about that one. Moussa and KPJ definitely. Kai possibly. And even you said "I don't think we'll end up regretting letting BBJ, Kai, or even Moussa go." Which means you're unsure & hesitant yourself. The way you're coming in this convo you have to say, "We won't miss any of those guys 100%, good riddance to all of them!" LOL, but I digress.

You're missing the point. Forget about BBJ or even Moussa for that matter. That's just an example. If we're extremely short on draft picks and "we without question need to get younger and more athletic" (quoting L. Frank) then why aren't doing what all the other team's are doing, minus the tanking teams like the Wizards, Jazz, etc. Which is mixing in some youth with our vets of Kawhi, Norm, Zu, Norm, Bogdan, Batum, etc? That's what every team does but us. BBJ and others might not be a part of our future, but neither is Eubanks & Patty Mills. Trading for those guys makes no sense whatsoever. We can get rid of every G Leaguer on the team, but in the same vein, I'll still going to question playing the PJ Tuckers, Eubanks Patty Mills, and giving tryouts to John Wall, Westbrook, Ben Simmons, etc. Developing 2-3 guys on the side doesn't mean playing a team full of G Leaguers, let's please cut that out for once.


It's not a false dichotomy in the least. I'm happy enough with our patchwork team of older players. The 213 experiment failed because of injury, not design, and we're temporizing until the draft picks come back. And the point stands that NOT ONE of the players we cut in the last 20 years is somebody we wish we had back. "Mixing in some youth" is a nice sentiment but without specifics it's vague to the point of meaninglessness.

Hartenstein, I'll give you, but he was not OUR young talent, which is our topic. Worst mistake I can think of, and they had another shot at him when he left the Knicks. OTOH, half a point for finding and signing him in the first place. But yeah, stupidstupidstupid.

We'll have to wait to see if that holds up yet and that was said by you as well. The stacking of vets on top of each other is also vague and rudderless imo. Really we just got lucky Norm stood by his "addition by subtraction" statement, Zu made a leap, Harden became an iron man, and Kawhi got healthy-- basically our veteran core showed up and delivered. Anything after that-surrounding these guys could be more vets or a youth movement playing alongside the core.
Clemenza
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,975
And1: 5,123
Joined: Jan 21, 2013
Location: California
   

Re: The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza 

Post#314 » by Clemenza » Fri Mar 28, 2025 8:07 pm

esqtvd wrote:why I don't believe in the G-League

Read on Twitter

Of course he's not going to have those numbers in the NBA. They're just hoping to find a good role player.
User avatar
esqtvd
RealGM
Posts: 12,161
And1: 4,858
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza 

Post#315 » by esqtvd » Fri Mar 28, 2025 8:35 pm

Clemenza wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
Clemenza wrote:
Hartenstein for starters. Every Clipper fan is still pissed about that one. Moussa and KPJ definitely. Kai possibly. And even you said "I don't think we'll end up regretting letting BBJ, Kai, or even Moussa go." Which means you're unsure & hesitant yourself. The way you're coming in this convo you have to say, "We won't miss any of those guys 100%, good riddance to all of them!" LOL, but I digress.

You're missing the point. Forget about BBJ or even Moussa for that matter. That's just an example. If we're extremely short on draft picks and "we without question need to get younger and more athletic" (quoting L. Frank) then why aren't doing what all the other team's are doing, minus the tanking teams like the Wizards, Jazz, etc. Which is mixing in some youth with our vets of Kawhi, Norm, Zu, Norm, Bogdan, Batum, etc? That's what every team does but us. BBJ and others might not be a part of our future, but neither is Eubanks & Patty Mills. Trading for those guys makes no sense whatsoever. We can get rid of every G Leaguer on the team, but in the same vein, I'll still going to question playing the PJ Tuckers, Eubanks Patty Mills, and giving tryouts to John Wall, Westbrook, Ben Simmons, etc. Developing 2-3 guys on the side doesn't mean playing a team full of G Leaguers, let's please cut that out for once.


It's not a false dichotomy in the least. I'm happy enough with our patchwork team of older players. The 213 experiment failed because of injury, not design, and we're temporizing until the draft picks come back. And the point stands that NOT ONE of the players we cut in the last 20 years is somebody we wish we had back. "Mixing in some youth" is a nice sentiment but without specifics it's vague to the point of meaninglessness.

Hartenstein, I'll give you, but he was not OUR young talent, which is our topic. Worst mistake I can think of, and they had another shot at him when he left the Knicks. OTOH, half a point for finding and signing him in the first place. But yeah, stupidstupidstupid.

We'll have to wait to see if that holds up yet and that was said by you as well. The stacking of vets on top of each other is also vague and rudderless imo. Really we just got lucky Norm stood by his "addition by subtraction" statement, Zu made a leap, Harden became an iron man, and Kawhi got healthy-- basically our veteran core showed up and delivered. Anything after that-surrounding these guys could be more vets or a youth movement playing alongside the core.


Yes, Norm and Zu [and Beard with a near-return to his MVP form] having career years is why we're not a 30-win team. That's the point. Guys who prove they can play in the NBA, not wannabes. Look at the plus/minus. The scoreboard doesn't lie.

The myth is a myth. We DID "mix in some youth" and they were ASS. So now everyone who is ass is either not playing or GONE. They ALL got their shot. [Except poor MarJon, who's on a two-way somewhere and is 25 in October. Toast.]

Image

They're all ass and will be out of the league soon, except for KJP and T-Mann, who has 3 yr/$47 million guaranteed kicking in next year and we were lucky to dump it.
Image Are We Having Fun Yet?
Clemenza
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,975
And1: 5,123
Joined: Jan 21, 2013
Location: California
   

Re: The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza 

Post#316 » by Clemenza » Fri Mar 28, 2025 8:36 pm

madmaxmedia wrote:Out of all the guys discussed I think Moussa is the one guy we definitely could have kept, because while he has a very limited ceiling we also know he has a couple of attributes that actually are NBA level- his motor, rebounding, and probably at least some aspects of defense. I think we let him go mainly because we didn't want to keep both him and Kobe, and I don't think it was a horrible decision to go with Kobe. But I'd rather have Moussa than Eubanks on the team right now all things considered.

Hart of course, but that was more of a roster issue than developmental issue since we didn't draft him. I was really hoping Wall would do something for us, obviously no one disputes now that Hart would have been the choice.

BBJ has an NBA body, too bad his game is the opposite of a fundamental 3-and-D guy. I see him in the same class as KPJ. As far as our current young guys, I guess maybe I'm hoping for the most from Cam Christie, I think we will give him time to develop and strengthen, and if he shooting holds up (and his defense is adequate) he should probably get some leash in terms of minutes. I'm a little mixed on Jordan, not because of his stats but because he doesn't seem like a particularly quick player on the court (which doesn't completely rule him out though.) And oh yeah, I do like Trentyn Flowers so far, though I think his upside might be as a different version of Amir Coffey than anything else?

Finally, I don't think it's fair to say we always fail with younger players. Both Mann and Amir showed early they could play in the NBA, and they got minutes early. Both were given the time and patience to develop their games, and they both far outplayed their original draft/UDFA positions. We don't have much else to show for, but I think that's as much a function of bad draft positions and bad draft decisions than bad development.

Even with the same FO and coaching staff, things would have been completely different without the 213 trade. We'd be proudly touting SGA as an all-time #11 pick, and would have had a few mid round picks that would have had better potential (and minutes) to succeed as well.

Agreed on Moussa. A bit undersized but his rebounding and endless motor will keep him on a roster whether he's the 2nd or 3rd big on a team. His rebounding and energy could've helped this team in numerous games this season. I wanted another year for BBJ as well, but I let that go because wing players are so easy to get now compared to years ago. BBJ, KPJ, Mann, Coffey, Keon Johnson, RoCo, etc. would've been godsends for the Lob City years. Rolling out the corpses of Hedo Turkalou, Paul Pierce, Danny Granger, Grant Hill, Sasha Vujačić, etc. for tryout phases was terrible. Now we can release players or let them walk and still come up on a Kai Jones, Cam Christie, Flowers, Baldwin Jr. etc. This was not the case 5-6 years ago.

I just want to see a couple of youngsters worked into the rotation somewhere down the line. Our core of Harden, Kawhi, Zu, and Norm balling out is what's holding everything together and keeping us fairly successful and in the mix. Its like the front office has no feel for the game at times and no gut feeling about a player or situation. We're too cutthroat. Like extremely cutthroat. SGA and Hartenstein are the obvious ones. On a lower level its Moussa, BBJ, Kai, KPJ.. just my opinion. And these guys are role players with some upside, they're not stars. And on the flipside, I have no clue why they believed in Mo Bamba, Ben Simmons as well even though that could work out for us in the end, hopefully. Trading for Eubanks and Patty Mills, why?? That made no sense whatsoever. But its all good. Some will disagree, but you got to infuse some type of youth somewhere, somehow, one of these days on this team badly. A lot of his is on Lue as well. He got let go from Cleveland after Bron left because he didn't want to play anybody they drafted, so there's that. But this is just side talk on team development.. We just gotta hope Harden, Kawhi, Zu, and Norm continue to ball out and stay healthy. They're everything for us right now.
Clemenza
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,975
And1: 5,123
Joined: Jan 21, 2013
Location: California
   

Re: The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza 

Post#317 » by Clemenza » Fri Mar 28, 2025 8:40 pm

esqtvd wrote:
Clemenza wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
It's not a false dichotomy in the least. I'm happy enough with our patchwork team of older players. The 213 experiment failed because of injury, not design, and we're temporizing until the draft picks come back. And the point stands that NOT ONE of the players we cut in the last 20 years is somebody we wish we had back. "Mixing in some youth" is a nice sentiment but without specifics it's vague to the point of meaninglessness.

Hartenstein, I'll give you, but he was not OUR young talent, which is our topic. Worst mistake I can think of, and they had another shot at him when he left the Knicks. OTOH, half a point for finding and signing him in the first place. But yeah, stupidstupidstupid.

We'll have to wait to see if that holds up yet and that was said by you as well. The stacking of vets on top of each other is also vague and rudderless imo. Really we just got lucky Norm stood by his "addition by subtraction" statement, Zu made a leap, Harden became an iron man, and Kawhi got healthy-- basically our veteran core showed up and delivered. Anything after that-surrounding these guys could be more vets or a youth movement playing alongside the core.


Yes, Norm and Zu [and Beard with a near-return to his MVP form] having career years is why we're not a 30-win team. That's the point. Veterans. Look at the plus/minus. The scoreboard doesn't lie.

The myth is a myth. Everyone who is ass is either not playing or GONE. And they ALL got their shot. [Except poor MarJon, who's on a two-way somewhere at age 24. Toast.]

Image

I'm all for veterans especially in the post season. That's tailor made and the time for the vets to shine. The youngsters are the ones who help you get through the 82 game season. I get the chart you put up, but half of these guys didn't even get a fair shake under a guy like Ty Lue. Plus as usual, there's going to be a ton of vets on top of them in Clipperville. All good, no issues.
User avatar
madmaxmedia
RealGM
Posts: 12,567
And1: 7,500
Joined: Jun 22, 2001
Location: SoCal
     

Re: The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza 

Post#318 » by madmaxmedia » Fri Mar 28, 2025 11:34 pm

Clemenza wrote:I just want to see a couple of youngsters worked into the rotation somewhere down the line. Our core of Harden, Kawhi, Zu, and Norm balling out is what's holding everything together and keeping us fairly successful and in the mix. It's like the front office has no feel for the game at times and no gut feeling about a player or situation. We're too cutthroat. Like extremely cutthroat. SGA and Hartenstein are the obvious ones. On a lower level it's Moussa, BBJ, Kai, KPJ.. just my opinion. And these guys are role players with some upside, they're not stars. And on the flipside, I have no clue why they believed in Mo Bamba, Ben Simmons as well even though that could work out for us in the end, hopefully. Trading for Eubanks and Patty Mills, why?? That made no sense whatsoever. But it's all good. Some will disagree, but you got to infuse some type of youth somewhere, somehow, one of these days on this team badly. A lot of his is on Lue as well. He got let go from Cleveland after Bron left because he didn't want to play anybody they drafted, so there's that. But this is just side talk on team development.. We just gotta hope Harden, Kawhi, Zu, and Norm continue to ball out and stay healthy. They're everything for us right now.


I agree with most of your points, especially bolded. It's always going to be a judgement call with a veteran team like ours that is good but not great, where every win may end up being significant. I think we've played the younger guys who were immediately able to contribute and not bleed points, but our leash may be a bit tight sometimes with others. Tough call also depending on how much potential you think some of these guys actually have, to justify the longer rope. A couple of wins either way this year could take us from say 4th seed to play-in, but a really good prospect could still be worth the trade off of those wins.

It would be nice to have at least one younger guy that we put some tangible development focus on, it's too bad though that we haven't had any recent draft picks where there has been strong consensus on their potential. It's possible to find them later in the draft (like Terance!), but it's generally really hard.

It's too bad we won't beat Houston to keep our pick this year, though for us to have done so we'd end up with a relatively late 1st anyway (vs. possibly the last pick in the 1st.)
User avatar
esqtvd
RealGM
Posts: 12,161
And1: 4,858
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza 

Post#319 » by esqtvd » Fri Mar 28, 2025 11:36 pm

Clemenza wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
Clemenza wrote:We'll have to wait to see if that holds up yet and that was said by you as well. The stacking of vets on top of each other is also vague and rudderless imo. Really we just got lucky Norm stood by his "addition by subtraction" statement, Zu made a leap, Harden became an iron man, and Kawhi got healthy-- basically our veteran core showed up and delivered. Anything after that-surrounding these guys could be more vets or a youth movement playing alongside the core.


Yes, Norm and Zu [and Beard with a near-return to his MVP form] having career years is why we're not a 30-win team. That's the point. Veterans. Look at the plus/minus. The scoreboard doesn't lie.

The myth is a myth. Everyone who is ass is either not playing or GONE. And they ALL got their shot. [Except poor MarJon, who's on a two-way somewhere at age 24. Toast.]

Image

I'm all for veterans especially in the post season. That's tailor made and the time for the vets to shine. The youngsters are the ones who help you get through the 82 game season. I get the chart you put up, but half of these guys didn't even get a fair shake under a guy like Ty Lue. Plus as usual, there's going to be a ton of vets on top of them in Clipperville. All good, no issues.



I think they all got a fair shake except for poor MarJon, lol. The test will be where any of them are in a year or two, if they're in the NBA at all. The Bible verse is, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. They suck, bro. You can't play these guys. Their per-100 possession numbers are even worse!

Mann was minus-5.3. Jordan Miller is minus-6.9. Kobe is minus-10.8 per 100. UNPLAYABLE.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?PerMode=Per100Possessions&TeamID=1610612746&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS

As for "stacking vets," I don't know what you want. The 213 all-in dice roll failed and here we are still interested in the season--even VERY interested--in March. I think both Frank and especially Ty pulled a rabbit out of their hat, and we're still under the first apron.
Image Are We Having Fun Yet?
User avatar
esqtvd
RealGM
Posts: 12,161
And1: 4,858
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: The Clipper General Board w/Random Thoughts, Youth Development, Ex Clippers Shinin', etc. Extravaganza 

Post#320 » by esqtvd » Sat Mar 29, 2025 11:22 pm

Read on Twitter


all that hate on Ty for not playing him

went to Philly and ate pine there too under Nick Nurse

now he's on a milk carton
Image Are We Having Fun Yet?

Return to Los Angeles Clippers