Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Horst Given Extension

[BigO]

I am much more conerned with what Horst did tradewise and his personnel moves than on the coaching situation.

I am won over that Doc should go, although with the injuries,and length of contract, i don't think there is much chance of that.

But roster construction is so much more importat than who the coach is (unless it's Griffin).

And the trade for Kuzma is the last straw. No GM worth their salt thinks Kuzma is a starting caliber shooting forward on a championship team.

Crazy thing is that there was an actual market for Kuzma. There were murmuring that the Kings wanted him and he turned down a trade to Dallas. It's possible that other teams wanted him too. I don't know why but it seems to be the case. Despite that possibility it's hard for me to understand how anyone constructing a team would think he could fit in between Dame and Giannis knowing how Kuzma has played recently and throughout his career. He has never been a great shooter or passer and his defense had been spotty at best. He has had decent years scoring and sharing but he didn't show any real qualities of being the kind of player you want as a 3rd guy.

While I would've never traded for him I do think he could play better and would play better with a real off season training. There has to be something wrong with his mechanics because he is not as bad as he has shown this year.

I don't think this is true.Here's his career stats:

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3134907/kyle-kuzma

[msiris]

Personally I rather watch one more year of Mids than 2 more of Kuzma

[Wonka]

The argument that we “had no choice” or “no option” other than the trade we ended up making is getting really, really overplayed.

Are you denying the reality of MIddleton's knees, age, general availability in the context of our cap space, and resulting value around the league?
You are.

The issue isn’t Middleton nor was I even referring to him. The issue is WHO we traded Middleton for, and if you want to choose to believe that that was the ONLY possibility for us, God bless you.

[Wonka]

The argument that we “had no choice” or “no option” other than the trade we ended up making is getting really, really overplayed.

i dont think most would argue that we had no other options. but what do you really think happened? he looked at all the options and said, "I'll take the one that's not as good as this one over here" ??

I know it's convenient to call these guys idiots all the time but he's not an idiot. If there were a better option, we would have done it. And that's really the proof to me that it was the best option available.

if you think, based on nothing but your own intuition and frustration with the state of the team, that you know better and that he just picked a bad deal, i really dont know what to say to that.

Using your own logic against you.

“If you think, based on your own intuition and blind faith with the team, that you know best and know that he picked the best available deal, I really don’t know what to say to you.”

GMs make mistakes. It’s okay to admit that instead of being delusionally positive. We have years and years and years of his shortsightedness and you still want to defend this move like we can't all see the blatant reality of it all.

[Dick Tate]

Well, dealing with the here and now, the Bucks have Kuzma and nobody has Khris. Hopefully Doc can figure out a way to turn him into a positive addition before the playoffs. Ideally he and Bobby form a good bench duo.

[MickeyDavis]

Shortly after word got out about Dame there was the "sources within the Bucks" stuff saying they are very optimistic about him returning this season. I knew right then that he won't be back. As has been mentioned already, they are pushing season ticket renewals and playoff ticket strips right now. No way they want to admit Dame is out for the season.

Now certainly there may be a surprise here and Dame comes back in a couple of weeks but I think it's highly doubtful.

[Ron Swanson]

Can't disagree with anything about Kuzma in no-way being an ideal #3 or even #4 dude on a title contender. The trade sucked and it is what it is. 100% disagree with this idea that he's going to be difficult to move though. 2-yrs $42 million is nothing in this day and age for a 30+ minute starter who isn't ancient or constantly hurt.

[soxperry]

The argument that we “had no choice” or “no option” other than the trade we ended up making is getting really, really overplayed.

i dont think most would argue that we had no other options. but what do you really think happened? he looked at all the options and said, "I'll take the one that's not as good as this one over here" ??

I know it's convenient to call these guys idiots all the time but he's not an idiot. If there were a better option, we would have done it. And that's really the proof to me that it was the best option available.

if you think, based on nothing but your own intuition and frustration with the state of the team, that you know better and that he just picked a bad deal, i really dont know what to say to that.

Using your own logic against you.

“If you think, based on your own intuition and blind faith with the team, that you know best and know that he picked the best available deal, I really don’t know what to say to you.”

GMs make mistakes. It’s okay to admit that instead of being delusionally positive. We have years and years and years of his shortsightedness and you still want to defend this move like we can't all see the blatant reality of it all.

Youre being hyperbolic. I dont have blind faith in the team, i simply understand that Horst, like every non billionaire in this country, would want to keep the absolutely sweet gig he currently has instead of taking a massive pay cut and doing something far less high profile. He has every incentive in the world to make the best possible choice.

Ive given you real evidence for why it was probably the best move available.

Just because you dont like the move doesn't mean it wasnt the best option.

[msiris]

Shortly after word got out about Dame there was the "sources within the Bucks" stuff saying they are very optimistic about him returning this season. I knew right then that he won't be back. As has been mentioned already, they are pushing season ticket renewals and playoff ticket strips right now. No way they want to admit Dame is out for the season.

Now certainly there may be a surprise here and Dame comes back in a couple of weeks but I think it's highly doubtful.

Just our luck that Dame might miss he playoffs. I don't feel like waiting another year to find out if it will work out next year. Trade him for a pick and younger guys. Heck would anyone trade Giannis for picks and say Alex Starr?

[Ron Swanson]

Shortly after word got out about Dame there was the "sources within the Bucks" stuff saying they are very optimistic about him returning this season. I knew right then that he won't be back. As has been mentioned already, they are pushing season ticket renewals and playoff ticket strips right now. No way they want to admit Dame is out for the season.

Now certainly there may be a surprise here and Dame comes back in a couple of weeks but I think it's highly doubtful.

Just our luck that Dame might miss he playoffs. I don't feel like waiting another year to find out if it will work out next year. Trade him for a pick and younger guys. Heck would anyone trade Giannis for picks and say Alex Starr?

It's bad enough that I have to look at some of the comically bad offers for Giannis from other delusional teams' fans on the T&T board (seriously guys, don't go over there), but then I come back here and see these kinds of trades....woof.

[FrieAaron]

Shortly after word got out about Dame there was the "sources within the Bucks" stuff saying they are very optimistic about him returning this season. I knew right then that he won't be back. As has been mentioned already, they are pushing season ticket renewals and playoff ticket strips right now. No way they want to admit Dame is out for the season.

Now certainly there may be a surprise here and Dame comes back in a couple of weeks but I think it's highly doubtful.

I'd be more optimistic if we weren't told after every playoff game last year how close Giannis was, only to be told he was nowhere near available once they were out of the playoffs.

[soxperry]

Shortly after word got out about Dame there was the "sources within the Bucks" stuff saying they are very optimistic about him returning this season. I knew right then that he won't be back. As has been mentioned already, they are pushing season ticket renewals and playoff ticket strips right now. No way they want to admit Dame is out for the season.

Now certainly there may be a surprise here and Dame comes back in a couple of weeks but I think it's highly doubtful.

Just our luck that Dame might miss he playoffs. I don't feel like waiting another year to find out if it will work out next year. Trade him for a pick and younger guys. Heck would anyone trade Giannis for picks and say Alex Starr?

It's bad enough that I have to look at some of the comically bad offers for Giannis from other delusional teams' fans on the T&T board (seriously guys, don't go over there), but then I come back here and see these kinds of trades....woof.

The Luka trade ruined the discourse.

[emunney]

The argument that we “had no choice” or “no option” other than the trade we ended up making is getting really, really overplayed.

Shades of "Kidd wanted MCW therefore it was not possible for us to get the 1st (that became Mikal Bridges) instead."

[emunney]

Has anybody considered that Doc is right and the problem is that he has messed Kuzma up?

[pifhluk23]

Shortly after word got out about Dame there was the "sources within the Bucks" stuff saying they are very optimistic about him returning this season. I knew right then that he won't be back. As has been mentioned already, they are pushing season ticket renewals and playoff ticket strips right now. No way they want to admit Dame is out for the season.

Now certainly there may be a surprise here and Dame comes back in a couple of weeks but I think it's highly doubtful.

From what I've read it's a 3 month minimum on blood thinners treatment and you can't play on blood thinners so...

[soxperry]

Has anybody considered that Doc is right and the problem is that he has messed Kuzma up?

i dont know what you're referring to, but i just took a look at Kuzma's shooting splits and he's been perfectly capable of hitting corner 3s the past few seasons.

so you have a 6'9 guy who can defend most positions, get out in transition, attack the rim on cuts, hit corner 3s, and whose contract DECLINES each of the next two seasons.

if you're Doc, you certainly believe you can get him to weed out the bad decisions. hopefully a lot of that comes from him understanding he's like the 5th offensive option on this team.

i see it, and i still believe in it. obviously, without Dame this is all meaningless. but i feel good about next season at least.

[msiris]

Shortly after word got out about Dame there was the "sources within the Bucks" stuff saying they are very optimistic about him returning this season. I knew right then that he won't be back. As has been mentioned already, they are pushing season ticket renewals and playoff ticket strips right now. No way they want to admit Dame is out for the season.

Now certainly there may be a surprise here and Dame comes back in a couple of weeks but I think it's highly doubtful.

Just our luck that Dame might miss he playoffs. I don't feel like waiting another year to find out if it will work out next year. Trade him for a pick and younger guys. Heck would anyone trade Giannis for picks and say Alex Starr?

It's bad enough that I have to look at some of the comically bad offers for Giannis from other delusional teams' fans on the T&T board (seriously guys, don't go over there), but then I come back here and see these kinds of trades....woof.

Thats why there is a question at the end? Lol

[ShootingtheJ]

Has anybody considered that Doc is right and the problem is that he has messed Kuzma up?

i dont know what you're referring to, but i just took a look at Kuzma's shooting splits and he's been perfectly capable of hitting corner 3s the past few seasons.

so you have a 6'9 guy who can defend most positions, get out in transition, attack the rim on cuts, hit corner 3s, and whose contract DECLINES each of the next two seasons.

if you're Doc, you certainly believe you can get him to weed out the bad decisions. hopefully a lot of that comes from him understanding he's like the 5th offensive option on this team.

i see it, and i still believe in it. obviously, without Dame this is all meaningless. but i feel good about next season at least.

Kuzma is shooting 32% in the paint outside of the restricted area. He's a broken player.

[Ron Swanson]

Blame Doc for a lot of things, but Kyle Kuzma being a spazz who forgot how to shoot is certainly not one of them.

[Finn]

Shortly after word got out about Dame there was the "sources within the Bucks" stuff saying they are very optimistic about him returning this season. I knew right then that he won't be back. As has been mentioned already, they are pushing season ticket renewals and playoff ticket strips right now. No way they want to admit Dame is out for the season.

Now certainly there may be a surprise here and Dame comes back in a couple of weeks but I think it's highly doubtful.

Just our luck that Dame might miss he playoffs. I don't feel like waiting another year to find out if it will work out next year. Trade him for a pick and younger guys. Heck would anyone trade Giannis for picks and say Alex Starr?

Is that Bart's great great grandson?