Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Horst Given Extension

[BroncoBuck]

The argument that we “had no choice” or “no option” other than the trade we ended up making is getting really, really overplayed.

It really isn’t. There were very few teams who could take on Khris without sending back salary to keep us below the apron. You’d be absolutely right pre-current CBA.

The Bucks were always going to have to attach an asset to Khris to get out of his contract if they weren’t taking back a similar big deal in return (someone like LaVine). We assumed based on the reports it was going to be the future first, but it ended up being AJJ.

There were a lot of trades posted here and Twitter that were treating Khris as an asset and all that did was heighten expectations. People are talking about AJJ like he was the throw in, when he was the key return in the trade for Washington eating a bad contract.

[emunney]

The argument that we “had no choice” or “no option” other than the trade we ended up making is getting really, really overplayed.

It really isn’t. There were very few teams who could take on Khris without sending back salary to keep us below the apron. You’d be absolutely right pre-current CBA.

The Bucks were always going to have to attach an asset to Khris to get out of his contract if they weren’t taking back a similar big deal in return (someone like LaVine). We assumed based on the reports it was going to be the future first, but it ended up being AJJ.

There were a lot of trades posted here and Twitter that were treating Khris as an asset and all that did was heighten expectations. People are talking about AJJ like he was the throw in, when he was the key return in the trade for Washington eating a bad contract.

You don't have to make any trade. You can just let the 31 pick freeze for a couple years (probably for the best anyway), clear the salary you need to in the off-season, and move forward, no longer over the apron, able to do all those forbidden-by-the-apron things, including trading the 32 pick if it's for some reason too hot to handle like anything that might possibly appreciate in value seems to be.

[emunney]

God forbid that pick unfreezes in 2027 when we have a clearer idea of what the **** it is.

[BroncoBuck]

The argument that we “had no choice” or “no option” other than the trade we ended up making is getting really, really overplayed.

It really isn’t. There were very few teams who could take on Khris without sending back salary to keep us below the apron. You’d be absolutely right pre-current CBA.

The Bucks were always going to have to attach an asset to Khris to get out of his contract if they weren’t taking back a similar big deal in return (someone like LaVine). We assumed based on the reports it was going to be the future first, but it ended up being AJJ.

There were a lot of trades posted here and Twitter that were treating Khris as an asset and all that did was heighten expectations. People are talking about AJJ like he was the throw in, when he was the key return in the trade for Washington eating a bad contract.

You don't have to make any trade. You can just let the 31 pick freeze for a couple years (probably for the best anyway), clear the salary you need to in the off-season, and move forward, no longer over the apron, able to do all those forbidden-by-the-apron things, including trading the 32 pick if it's for some reason too hot to handle like anything that might possibly appreciate in value seems to be.

You’re working with one arm tied behind your back in that scenario under this CBA. You have less future assets to clear salary, you are looking at league minimum guys in free agency, and again you are unable to aggregate contracts in trades. Look at the trades that happened this year, teams are very aware of how bad this CBA is for the more leveraged teams. Khris is just as untradable next season as he was this season.

[kanyon]

If only Jabari would have made it to his tryout the other year

[DanoMac]

Shortly after word got out about Dame there was the "sources within the Bucks" stuff saying they are very optimistic about him returning this season. I knew right then that he won't be back. As has been mentioned already, they are pushing season ticket renewals and playoff ticket strips right now. No way they want to admit Dame is out for the season.

Now certainly there may be a surprise here and Dame comes back in a couple of weeks but I think it's highly doubtful.

Just our luck that Dame might miss he playoffs. I don't feel like waiting another year to find out if it will work out next year. Trade him for a pick and younger guys. Heck would anyone trade Giannis for picks and say Alex Starr?

I think the only realistic destination that I'd even think about sending Giannis to is OKC. Chet + Jalen Williams + Dort + Caruso + picks or something of the like

[ShootingtheJ]

Blame Doc for a lot of things, but Kyle Kuzma being a spazz who forgot how to shoot is certainly not one of them.

Yup, Kuzma reportedly didn't touch a basketball all offseason, and showed up to camp overweight, so him having the worst season of his career should be no surprise.

[Daver]

Detroit with a better record thsn the bucks wtf right there in itself horst n doc should be curb stomped

[soxperry]

Shortly after word got out about Dame there was the "sources within the Bucks" stuff saying they are very optimistic about him returning this season. I knew right then that he won't be back. As has been mentioned already, they are pushing season ticket renewals and playoff ticket strips right now. No way they want to admit Dame is out for the season.

Now certainly there may be a surprise here and Dame comes back in a couple of weeks but I think it's highly doubtful.

Just our luck that Dame might miss he playoffs. I don't feel like waiting another year to find out if it will work out next year. Trade him for a pick and younger guys. Heck would anyone trade Giannis for picks and say Alex Starr?

I think the only realistic destination that I'd even think about sending Giannis to is OKC. Chet + Jalen Williams + Dort + Caruso + picks or something of the like

Id like to try and figure out who we could trade with to get our own picks back but they have all been parted out so many different ways that i dont know who has what.

[Wonka]

Blame Doc for a lot of things, but Kyle Kuzma being a spazz who forgot how to shoot is certainly not one of them.

Yup, Kuzma reportedly didn't touch a basketball all offseason, and showed up to camp overweight, so him having the worst season of his career should be no surprise.

And good franchises don’t acquire guys like that. Did we do no due diligence? Abject failure top to bottom.

[ShootingtheJ]

Bucks should sign Killian Hayes to add to our PG depth. He's made a serious jump in the G League this year, and played well on a 10 day with the Nets.

Considering there's a decent chance Dame has played his last game as a Buck, and KPJ remains an enigma, Hayes could be a party of getting out of this mess. He's still just 23.

[emunney]

It really isn’t. There were very few teams who could take on Khris without sending back salary to keep us below the apron. You’d be absolutely right pre-current CBA.

The Bucks were always going to have to attach an asset to Khris to get out of his contract if they weren’t taking back a similar big deal in return (someone like LaVine). We assumed based on the reports it was going to be the future first, but it ended up being AJJ.

There were a lot of trades posted here and Twitter that were treating Khris as an asset and all that did was heighten expectations. People are talking about AJJ like he was the throw in, when he was the key return in the trade for Washington eating a bad contract.

You don't have to make any trade. You can just let the 31 pick freeze for a couple years (probably for the best anyway), clear the salary you need to in the off-season, and move forward, no longer over the apron, able to do all those forbidden-by-the-apron things, including trading the 32 pick if it's for some reason too hot to handle like anything that might possibly appreciate in value seems to be.

You’re working with one arm tied behind your back in that scenario under this CBA. You have less future assets to clear salary, you are looking at league minimum guys in free agency, and again you are unable to aggregate contracts in trades. Look at the trades that happened this year, teams are very aware of how bad this CBA is for the more leveraged teams. Khris is just as untradable next season as he was this season.

You're working with one hand tied behind your back until July when it's a new league year and you're no longer over the apron. Who cares? It was that important to pay cash to rent Sims and KPJ? Brook and Bobby are both expiring. At that point your only restriction is that you can't trade the 31 pick. But you can trade the 32 pick.

So really a future swap is the only asset you're short, but you have AJ instead, and Khris is either opting out and resigning for a smaller annual amount, or he's a big expiring. Pat also an expiring. I'm not sure how this isn't preferable unless you think trading Khris for Kuzma gives us a much better shot to win this year, and that's not supportable to me.

[SirChurros]

Bucks should sign Killian Hayes to add to our PG depth. He's made a serious jump in the G League this year, and played well on a 10 day with the Nets.

Considering there's a decent chance Dame has played his last game as a Buck, and KPJ remains an enigma, Hayes could be a party of getting out of this mess. He's still just 23.

100% agree with this. That’s the kind of shrewd pickup that could pay dividends. Former top 10 pick who teams have given up on too early.

[Bernman]

If we're going to rebuild, it sure would be nice to have a prospect w/ the upside of AJ Johnson in the mix.

If we're going to stay the course, it sure would be nice to have cap space while Giannis is still under contract.

[BroncoBuck]

You don't have to make any trade. You can just let the 31 pick freeze for a couple years (probably for the best anyway), clear the salary you need to in the off-season, and move forward, no longer over the apron, able to do all those forbidden-by-the-apron things, including trading the 32 pick if it's for some reason too hot to handle like anything that might possibly appreciate in value seems to be.

You’re working with one arm tied behind your back in that scenario under this CBA. You have less future assets to clear salary, you are looking at league minimum guys in free agency, and again you are unable to aggregate contracts in trades. Look at the trades that happened this year, teams are very aware of how bad this CBA is for the more leveraged teams. Khris is just as untradable next season as he was this season.

You're working with one hand tied behind your back until July when it's a new league year and you're no longer over the apron. Who cares? It was that important to pay cash to rent Sims and KPJ? Brook and Bobby are both expiring. At that point your only restriction is that you can't trade the 31 pick. But you can trade the 32 pick.

So really a future swap is the only asset you're short, but you have AJ instead, and Khris is either opting out and resigning for a smaller annual amount, or he's a big expiring. Pat also an expiring. I'm not sure how this isn't preferable unless you think trading Khris for Kuzma gives us a much better shot to win this year, and that's not supportable to me.

It doesn’t matter that Khris is expiring. He’s certainly opting in and you’re still attaching an asset to move him unless you’re taking back another bad deal in return. It’s not like he’s accepting a buyout, he really can’t play basketball anymore. The Grizzlies had to attach a first to Marcus Smart to dump him with Washington and he’s a guy who is likely to take a buyout next season and makes nearly half of what Khris does next year.

Have to adapt to the new CBA. Teams are doing everything they can to duck the apron. It’ll be interesting to see what happens with Boston and Jrue/Kristaps.

[ShootingtheJ]

You’re working with one arm tied behind your back in that scenario under this CBA. You have less future assets to clear salary, you are looking at league minimum guys in free agency, and again you are unable to aggregate contracts in trades. Look at the trades that happened this year, teams are very aware of how bad this CBA is for the more leveraged teams. Khris is just as untradable next season as he was this season.

You're working with one hand tied behind your back until July when it's a new league year and you're no longer over the apron. Who cares? It was that important to pay cash to rent Sims and KPJ? Brook and Bobby are both expiring. At that point your only restriction is that you can't trade the 31 pick. But you can trade the 32 pick.

So really a future swap is the only asset you're short, but you have AJ instead, and Khris is either opting out and resigning for a smaller annual amount, or he's a big expiring. Pat also an expiring. I'm not sure how this isn't preferable unless you think trading Khris for Kuzma gives us a much better shot to win this year, and that's not supportable to me.

It doesn’t matter that Khris is expiring. He’s certainly opting in and you’re still attaching an asset to move him unless you’re taking back another bad deal in return. It’s not like he’s accepting a buyout, he really can’t play basketball anymore. The Grizzlies had to attach a first to Marcus Smart to dump him with Washington and he’s a guy who is likely to take a buyout next season and makes nearly half of what Khris does next year.

Have to adapt to the new CBA. Teams are doing everything they can to duck the apron. It’ll be interesting to see what happens with Boston and Jrue/Kristaps.

Trading for one of the worst contracts in the NBA isn't adapting to the CBA.

[emunney]

You’re working with one arm tied behind your back in that scenario under this CBA. You have less future assets to clear salary, you are looking at league minimum guys in free agency, and again you are unable to aggregate contracts in trades. Look at the trades that happened this year, teams are very aware of how bad this CBA is for the more leveraged teams. Khris is just as untradable next season as he was this season.

You're working with one hand tied behind your back until July when it's a new league year and you're no longer over the apron. Who cares? It was that important to pay cash to rent Sims and KPJ? Brook and Bobby are both expiring. At that point your only restriction is that you can't trade the 31 pick. But you can trade the 32 pick.

So really a future swap is the only asset you're short, but you have AJ instead, and Khris is either opting out and resigning for a smaller annual amount, or he's a big expiring. Pat also an expiring. I'm not sure how this isn't preferable unless you think trading Khris for Kuzma gives us a much better shot to win this year, and that's not supportable to me.

It doesn’t matter that Khris is expiring. He’s certainly opting in and you’re still attaching an asset to move him unless you’re taking back another bad deal in return. It’s not like he’s accepting a buyout, he really can’t play basketball anymore. The Grizzlies had to attach a first to Marcus Smart to dump him with Washington and he’s a guy who is likely to take a buyout next season and makes nearly half of what Khris does next year.

Have to adapt to the new CBA. Teams are doing everything they can to duck the apron. It’ll be interesting to see what happens with Boston and Jrue/Kristaps.

The Grizzlies did not attach a first to Smart, and again, you're starting with absolutely no explanation from the assumption that you must trade Khris. It's totally unnecessary. You don't have to attach anything to Khris because there is no compelling reason to trade him.

'Have to adapt to the new CBA', sure, but carefully. You think that teams aren't going to make wild unforced errors over-steering in that adaptation, just as they've done every time there's ever been a change, or just when they perceived they're in a bind? The well-managed teams will use panic to their advantage; the poorly managed teams will panic. That's one thing that will never change.

[raferfenix]

How much do we think Dame’s blood clot impacts his trade value?

Do we actually think the Bucks fire Doc? I fear him being promoted to POBO is far more likely, and suspect he’s had a strong hand in player personnel decisions already.

Horst I have a hard time seeing staying either way. His contract is just about up and based on Detroit last year he probably wishes he got let out earlier.

Barring a Giannis trade (which certainly could happen) these seem like the biggest variables for the Bucks having a real shakeup.

[BroncoBuck]

You're working with one hand tied behind your back until July when it's a new league year and you're no longer over the apron. Who cares? It was that important to pay cash to rent Sims and KPJ? Brook and Bobby are both expiring. At that point your only restriction is that you can't trade the 31 pick. But you can trade the 32 pick.

So really a future swap is the only asset you're short, but you have AJ instead, and Khris is either opting out and resigning for a smaller annual amount, or he's a big expiring. Pat also an expiring. I'm not sure how this isn't preferable unless you think trading Khris for Kuzma gives us a much better shot to win this year, and that's not supportable to me.

It doesn’t matter that Khris is expiring. He’s certainly opting in and you’re still attaching an asset to move him unless you’re taking back another bad deal in return. It’s not like he’s accepting a buyout, he really can’t play basketball anymore. The Grizzlies had to attach a first to Marcus Smart to dump him with Washington and he’s a guy who is likely to take a buyout next season and makes nearly half of what Khris does next year.

Have to adapt to the new CBA. Teams are doing everything they can to duck the apron. It’ll be interesting to see what happens with Boston and Jrue/Kristaps.

The Grizzlies did not attach a first to Smart, and again, you're starting with absolutely no explanation from the assumption that you must trade Khris. It's totally unnecessary. You don't have to attach anything to Khris because there is no compelling reason to trade him.

'Have to adapt to the new CBA', sure, but carefully. You think that teams aren't going to make wild unforced errors over-steering in that adaptation, just as they've done every time there's ever been a change, or just when they perceived they're in a bind? The well-managed teams will use panic to their advantage; the poorly managed teams will panic. That's one thing that will never change.

The Grizzlies traded this year’s first to Washington to dump Marcus Smart. It’s lottery protected, but they aren’t a lottery team so it’s obviously conveying.

Read on Twitter

The Bucks not trading Khris would’ve been punting on 2 years of prime Giannis. Khris is done. He can’t play basketball anymore. His body is cooked. He’s in the same boat Gordon Hayward was a few years ago. He can’t stay on the court, and he can’t play defense.

Read on Twitter

[ShootingtheJ]

It doesn’t matter that Khris is expiring. He’s certainly opting in and you’re still attaching an asset to move him unless you’re taking back another bad deal in return. It’s not like he’s accepting a buyout, he really can’t play basketball anymore. The Grizzlies had to attach a first to Marcus Smart to dump him with Washington and he’s a guy who is likely to take a buyout next season and makes nearly half of what Khris does next year.

Have to adapt to the new CBA. Teams are doing everything they can to duck the apron. It’ll be interesting to see what happens with Boston and Jrue/Kristaps.

The Grizzlies did not attach a first to Smart, and again, you're starting with absolutely no explanation from the assumption that you must trade Khris. It's totally unnecessary. You don't have to attach anything to Khris because there is no compelling reason to trade him.

'Have to adapt to the new CBA', sure, but carefully. You think that teams aren't going to make wild unforced errors over-steering in that adaptation, just as they've done every time there's ever been a change, or just when they perceived they're in a bind? The well-managed teams will use panic to their advantage; the poorly managed teams will panic. That's one thing that will never change.

The Grizzlies traded this year’s first to Washington to dump Marcus Smart. It’s lottery protected, but they aren’t a lottery team so it’s obviously conveying.

Read on Twitter

The Bucks not trading Khris would’ve been punting on 2 years of prime Giannis. Khris is done. He can’t play basketball anymore. His body is cooked. He’s in the same boat Gordon Hayward was a few years ago. He can’t stay on the court, and he can’t play defense.

Read on Twitter

Kuzma is a negative, plus we gave up other assets, so trading Khris didn't help anything