PG: Passing The Bucks

[3toheadmelo]

Theyre both kinda inconsistent with it so a 3a/3b works.


None of it is gonna matter if our 1st isn't back soon. I'm ready to buy into the lie and go all in for Knicks playoffs. Cause having a first option like Brunson means on any given night we can have the best player on the court and that's something I can believe in. Solid wing defenders, mitch healthy manning the paint, kat doing kat things. LFG!!!!!

It would be cool af if they flipped the switch in the playoffs but ngl im checked out right now

That’s fine this is the doldrums of the season where it doesn’t matter that much but ima need you to go ahead and check back in by game 1

I will but I won’t get my hopes up

[Gravy]

We’ve had a lot of coaches who’ve tried different things over the years, our teams have just always sucked with the exception of like 1-2 seasons. Trying different things doesn’t guarantee anything, but forcing things that aren’t working doesn’t get you anywhere at all.

I don’t understand why a coach couldn’t adapt and learn during the season? If your schemes aren’t working, you’re saying it’s unacceptable to try new ones? This is why we get the shyt kicked out of us by the top teams, because we keep doing the same things expecting different results. I don’t see how continuing to force a square peg into a round hole helps you keep your job.

The top teams beat us because of a huge talent gap. I dont see Kolek or a new scheme changing that. agree to disagree

Talent gap? Na, this team has top talent… Dag n Mazzulla just run circles around Thibs… playing chess while he’s playing checkers.

You know they have 6× all-star, 3× All-NBA First Team, MVP Jason Tatum. Jalen Brunson is just as good?lol Overrating our players like this is delusional

[spree8]

The top teams beat us because of a huge talent gap. I dont see Kolek or a new scheme changing that. agree to disagree

Talent gap? Na, this team has top talent… Dag n Mazzulla just run circles around Thibs… playing chess while he’s playing checkers.

You know they have 6× all-star, 3× All-NBA First Team, MVP Jason Tatum. Jalen Brunson is just as good?lol Overrating our players like this is delusional

I’m not saying Brunson is better than Tatum even tho he got 142 MVP votes last season compared to Tatum’s 86, but that’s just 1 player on each team.

That’s not what I said, so no what I did say is not delusional.
Riding this hard for Thibs however, is…

[Chanel Bomber]

The top teams beat us because of a huge talent gap. I dont see Kolek or a new scheme changing that. agree to disagree

Talent gap? Na, this team has top talent… Dag n Mazzulla just run circles around Thibs… playing chess while he’s playing checkers.

You know they have 6× all-star, 3× All-NBA First Team, MVP Jason Tatum. Jalen Brunson is just as good?lol Overrating our players like this is delusional

Tatum is a better player than Brunson and Mazzula is a better coach than Thibs.

Which gap makes the bigger difference is debatable. I do generally lean towards the talent gap.

[spree2kawhi]

I think it’s great Thibs went with Wright first.

[spree8]

Talent gap? Na, this team has top talent… Dag n Mazzulla just run circles around Thibs… playing chess while he’s playing checkers.

You know they have 6× all-star, 3× All-NBA First Team, MVP Jason Tatum. Jalen Brunson is just as good?lol Overrating our players like this is delusional

Tatum is a better player than Brunson and Mazzula is a better coach than Thibs.

Which gap makes the bigger difference is debatable. I do generally lean towards the talent gap.

Brunson—Tatum
KAT—Brown
OG—KP
Mikal—White
Hart—Horford
Deuce—Jrue
Mitch—Pritchard

While there’s an obvious gap in talent, I don’t think it’s as bad as Thibs—Mazzulla. Especially when you factor in that Thibs doesn’t play these guys to their strengths. Then you have the difference in strategies and adjustments. It’s such a disparity.

[god shammgod]

Talent gap? Na, this team has top talent… Dag n Mazzulla just run circles around Thibs… playing chess while he’s playing checkers.

You know they have 6× all-star, 3× All-NBA First Team, MVP Jason Tatum. Jalen Brunson is just as good?lol Overrating our players like this is delusional

Tatum is a better player than Brunson and Mazzula is a better coach than Thibs.

Which gap makes the bigger difference is debatable. I do generally lean towards the talent gap.

i don't think that's where the biggest talent gap is. their starting lineup is just constructed in a way where you'll almost always have more disadvantages than them. they all can play defense. they all can shoot from the outside. they have 4 guys who can create shots.

we'll always have guys they can target on defense and guys they can ignore somewhat on offense. they really don't. your best bet i guess is hoping an older jrue can't beat you and give him a lot of shots and try to destroy them on the boards. we're not a good rebounding team either though so you would have to go double big and then one of kat or mitch has to guard someone other than their center unless they play horford and kp together. would we out rebound them anyway if they went big too ? don't know. it's a tough team to figure out.

[Gravy]

Talent gap? Na, this team has top talent… Dag n Mazzulla just run circles around Thibs… playing chess while he’s playing checkers.

You know they have 6× all-star, 3× All-NBA First Team, MVP Jason Tatum. Jalen Brunson is just as good?lol Overrating our players like this is delusional

Tatum is a better player than Brunson and Mazzula is a better coach than Thibs.

Which gap makes the bigger difference is debatable. I do generally lean towards the talent gap.

While Mazzula may be better how do we really know when this is the only team he's ever coached? He was given a 50 win team with a 24year old mvp. This could be like Nurse where he was given a ecf team and Kawhi and people thought he was elite when every scheme he came up with would work when you have elite players.

[3toheadmelo]

We should’ve traded KP for bostons pick to get Tatum

[god shammgod]

You know they have 6× all-star, 3× All-NBA First Team, MVP Jason Tatum. Jalen Brunson is just as good?lol Overrating our players like this is delusional

Tatum is a better player than Brunson and Mazzula is a better coach than Thibs.

Which gap makes the bigger difference is debatable. I do generally lean towards the talent gap.

While Mazzula may be better how do we really know when this is the only team he's ever coached? He was given a 50 win team with a 24year old mvp. This could be like Nurse where he was given a ecf team and Kawhi and people thought he was elite when every scheme he came up with would work when you have elite players.

the celtics offense relies on just taking and making a ton of 3s. and they can do that often. outside of that they're criticized a lot for guys going one on one and taking bad shots while other guys stand around. they're not doing anything special.

[Chanel Bomber]

You know they have 6× all-star, 3× All-NBA First Team, MVP Jason Tatum. Jalen Brunson is just as good?lol Overrating our players like this is delusional

Tatum is a better player than Brunson and Mazzula is a better coach than Thibs.

Which gap makes the bigger difference is debatable. I do generally lean towards the talent gap.

i don't think that's where the biggest talent gap is. their starting lineup is just constructed in a way where you'll almost always have more disadvantages than them. they all can play defense. they all can shoot from the outside. they have 4 guys who can create shots.

we'll always have guys they can target on defense and guys they can ignore somewhat on offense. they really don't. your best bet i guess is hoping an older jrue can't beat you and give him a lot of shots and try to destroy them on the boards. we're not a good rebounding team either though so you would have to go double big and then one of kat or mitch has to guard someone other than their center unless they play horford and kp together. would we out rebound them then anyway if they went big too ? don't know. it's a tough team to figure out.

No I completely agree with you.

I was just sharing thoughts specifically on Gravy's point about each team's best player, and how it may be more relevant than any gap in coaching.

Funnily enough, I think the Tatum-Brunson comp encapsulates the difference between the two rosters. Brunson is a one-way player - a great player, but who impacts just one end of the floor. Tatum is a two-way player, who can equally play on the ball and off the ball, and make an impact on defense. And this difference is replicated across both rosters to a significant extent, in one way or another.

Boston is a tough problem to solve. They don't really have a weakness besides physicality in the paint, and Horford is still impactful there. I think the best shot is probably having a superstar who collapses their defense entirely. I don't know.

[spree8]

Tatum is a better player than Brunson and Mazzula is a better coach than Thibs.

Which gap makes the bigger difference is debatable. I do generally lean towards the talent gap.

While Mazzula may be better how do we really know when this is the only team he's ever coached? He was given a 50 win team with a 24year old mvp. This could be like Nurse where he was given a ecf team and Kawhi and people thought he was elite when every scheme he came up with would work when you have elite players.

the celtics offense relies on just taking and making a ton of 3s. and they can do that often. outside of that they're criticized a lot for guys going one on one and taking bad shots. they're not doing anything special.

They are tho. It’s easy to say they just jack up 3’s and iso with Tatum n Brown…. They do those things, but we’re talking a lot of possessions every single game. Mazzulla absolutely has these guys doing things out there as a team, that coaches like Thibs don’t have an answer for.

I even posted a series of gifs breaking down one simple play they hit us with that Thibs had no idea how to answer. The one with White (guarded by Brunson) hitting KAT with a screen to free up his man, who then screened for Tatum numerous times who then killed us with his scoring or playmaking after our defense broke down from those actions. Every time without fail… it was pathetic.

[god shammgod]

While Mazzula may be better how do we really know when this is the only team he's ever coached? He was given a 50 win team with a 24year old mvp. This could be like Nurse where he was given a ecf team and Kawhi and people thought he was elite when every scheme he came up with would work when you have elite players.

the celtics offense relies on just taking and making a ton of 3s. and they can do that often. outside of that they're criticized a lot for guys going one on one and taking bad shots. they're not doing anything special.

They are tho. It’s easy to say they just jack up 3’s and iso with Tatum n Brown…. They do those things, but we’re talking a lot of possessions every single game. Mazzulla absolutely has these guys doing things out there as a team, that coaches like Thibs don’t have an answer for.

I even posted a series of gifs breaking down one simple play they hit us with that Thibs had no idea how to answer. The one with White (guarded by Brunson) hitting KAT with a screen to free up his man, who then screened for Tatum numerous times who then killed us with his scoring or playmaking after our defense broke down from those actions. Every time without fail… it was pathetic.

because kat and brunson can't play defense. they're weak links. so they target them. that's a roster flaw not a coaching one.

[MrDollarBills]

Talent gap? Na, this team has top talent… Dag n Mazzulla just run circles around Thibs… playing chess while he’s playing checkers.

You know they have 6× all-star, 3× All-NBA First Team, MVP Jason Tatum. Jalen Brunson is just as good?lol Overrating our players like this is delusional

Tatum is a better player than Brunson and Mazzula is a better coach than Thibs.

Which gap makes the bigger difference is debatable. I do generally lean towards the talent gap.

Tatum is better than Brunson but I don't agree with the notion that Boston's talent is that far and away better.

A team with Brunson, KAT, OG, and Bridges should not be getting blown out.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

the celtics offense relies on just taking and making a ton of 3s. and they can do that often. outside of that they're criticized a lot for guys going one on one and taking bad shots. they're not doing anything special.

They are tho. It’s easy to say they just jack up 3’s and iso with Tatum n Brown…. They do those things, but we’re talking a lot of possessions every single game. Mazzulla absolutely has these guys doing things out there as a team, that coaches like Thibs don’t have an answer for.

I even posted a series of gifs breaking down one simple play they hit us with that Thibs had no idea how to answer. The one with White (guarded by Brunson) hitting KAT with a screen to free up his man, who then screened for Tatum numerous times who then killed us with his scoring or playmaking after our defense broke down from those actions. Every time without fail… it was pathetic.

because kat and brunson can't play defense. they're weak links. so they target them. that's a roster flaw not a coaching one.

The coaching issue is that we don't try anything outside the box, the Heat made it to the finals largely playing zone because that was the best way to hide their poor defenders who provided shooting. With the Celtics, we're going to come out with KAT on KP, no changes, we're not going to play any zone, we're not going to put KAT on Jrue and try to force the Celtics to post up KP more. If we play the Celtics and lose because Jrue and Jaylen went nuts from three, so be it, but we're going to lose the same way we have the last 2 seasons. A barrage of threes from everyone because they know exactly how we're going to defend them.

[MrDollarBills]

the celtics offense relies on just taking and making a ton of 3s. and they can do that often. outside of that they're criticized a lot for guys going one on one and taking bad shots. they're not doing anything special.

They are tho. It’s easy to say they just jack up 3’s and iso with Tatum n Brown…. They do those things, but we’re talking a lot of possessions every single game. Mazzulla absolutely has these guys doing things out there as a team, that coaches like Thibs don’t have an answer for.

I even posted a series of gifs breaking down one simple play they hit us with that Thibs had no idea how to answer. The one with White (guarded by Brunson) hitting KAT with a screen to free up his man, who then screened for Tatum numerous times who then killed us with his scoring or playmaking after our defense broke down from those actions. Every time without fail… it was pathetic.

because kat and brunson can't play defense. they're weak links. so they target them. that's a roster flaw not a coaching one.

It's the coaches job to figure out how to make it work though. Playing KAT in drop coverage when he clearly struggles with it is asinine.

Brunson and KAT aren't good defenders but the coach isn't helping

[Chanel Bomber]

You know they have 6× all-star, 3× All-NBA First Team, MVP Jason Tatum. Jalen Brunson is just as good?lol Overrating our players like this is delusional

Tatum is a better player than Brunson and Mazzula is a better coach than Thibs.

Which gap makes the bigger difference is debatable. I do generally lean towards the talent gap.

While Mazzula may be better how do we really know when this is the only team he's ever coached? He was given a 50 win team with a 24year old mvp. This could be like Nurse where he was given a ecf team and Kawhi and people thought he was elite when every scheme he came up with would work when you have elite players.

Mazzula is a pragmatist. His decision-making is analytically and statistically driven rather than ideological, and he implements his thinking in a strong way. He's also thoughtful and open-minded, and seeks insight from other fields to inform his coaching. We shall see how his coaching career pans out, but he has succeeded in taking the Celtics to the next level.

Any coach needs elite talent to succeed. But I don't think it's accurate to say coaching doesn't make a difference.

Some middling coaches have won championships off the back of elite basketball talent. I don't think Frank Vogel or Mike Budenholzer were anything special, for instance. Some elite coaches (at least for their time) never won a championship. Context matters for coaches as much as it does for players. But we can still assess these coaches based on how their teams play relative to their talent level.

I don't think it's reasonable to say that Thibs is a "bad" coach. Some people here pretend he is and repeat it ad nauseam but frankly people think and say a lot of things - you're not going to change the mind of someone who needs a scapegoat to remain hopeful about the future.

But it's fair to point out that Thibs has core philosophical tenets that he struggles to deviate from. He's not the most agile or adaptable coach. He's not as pragmatic as Mazzula and a few other coaches are showing to be. When he's given a roster that fits his philosophy, like last year's Knicks, he can extract the most of it and do a masterful job. When he inherits a roster that doesn't, like this year's Knicks, he does appear to hold the team back a bit.

[MrDollarBills]

They are tho. It’s easy to say they just jack up 3’s and iso with Tatum n Brown…. They do those things, but we’re talking a lot of possessions every single game. Mazzulla absolutely has these guys doing things out there as a team, that coaches like Thibs don’t have an answer for.

I even posted a series of gifs breaking down one simple play they hit us with that Thibs had no idea how to answer. The one with White (guarded by Brunson) hitting KAT with a screen to free up his man, who then screened for Tatum numerous times who then killed us with his scoring or playmaking after our defense broke down from those actions. Every time without fail… it was pathetic.

because kat and brunson can't play defense. they're weak links. so they target them. that's a roster flaw not a coaching one.

The coaching issue is that we don't try anything outside the box, the Heat made it to the finals largely playing zone because that was the best way to hide their poor defenders who provided shooting. With the Celtics, we're going to come out with KAT on KP, no changes, we're not going to play any zone, we're not going to put KAT on Jrue and try to force the Celtics to post up KP more. If we play the Celtics and lose because Jrue and Jaylen went nuts from three, so be it, but we're going to lose the same way we have the last 2 seasons. A barrage of threes from everyone because they know exactly how we're going to defend them.

Spoelstra finds ways to put his players in a position to succeed regardless of flaws.

Meanwhile Thibs uses KAT the same way he uses Mitch. Which is absolutely stupid yet people blindly defend this man while ignoring glaring issues. I don't get it.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Tatum is a better player than Brunson and Mazzula is a better coach than Thibs.

Which gap makes the bigger difference is debatable. I do generally lean towards the talent gap.

While Mazzula may be better how do we really know when this is the only team he's ever coached? He was given a 50 win team with a 24year old mvp. This could be like Nurse where he was given a ecf team and Kawhi and people thought he was elite when every scheme he came up with would work when you have elite players.

Mazzula is a pragmatist. His decision-making is analytically and statistically driven rather than ideological, and he implements his thinking in a strong way. He's also thoughtful and open-minded, and seeks insight from other fields to inform his coaching. We shall see how his coaching career pans out, but he has succeeded in taking the Celtics to the next level.

Any coach needs elite talent to succeed. But I don't think it's accurate to say coaching doesn't make a difference.

Some middling coaches have won championships off the back of elite basketball talent. I don't think Frank Vogel or Mike Budenholzer were anything special, for instance. Some elite coaches (at least for their time) never won a championship. Context matters for coaches as much as it does for players. But we can still assess these coaches based on how their teams play relative to their talent level.

I don't think it's reasonable to say that Thibs is a "bad" coach. Some people here pretend he is and repeat it ad nauseam but frankly people think and say a lot of things - you're not going to change the mind of someone who needs a scapegoat to remain hopeful about the future.

But it's fair to point out that Thibs has core philosophical tenets that he struggles to deviate from. He's not the most agile or adaptable coach. He's not as pragmatic as Mazzula and a few other coaches are showing to be. When he's given a roster that fits his philosophy, like last year's Knicks, he can extract the most of it and do a masterful job. When he inherits a roster that doesn't, like this year's Knicks, he does appear to hold the team back a bit.

Thibs sucks is just the bottom line hyperbole. Most of us that don't like him realize he can raise the floor of a team and be a culture setting type coach. We just question his ability to win it all. The reasons have been discussed to death but, not everyone thinks he's as bad as the hyperbole gets. At least I would hope not.

[spree8]

the celtics offense relies on just taking and making a ton of 3s. and they can do that often. outside of that they're criticized a lot for guys going one on one and taking bad shots. they're not doing anything special.

They are tho. It’s easy to say they just jack up 3’s and iso with Tatum n Brown…. They do those things, but we’re talking a lot of possessions every single game. Mazzulla absolutely has these guys doing things out there as a team, that coaches like Thibs don’t have an answer for.

I even posted a series of gifs breaking down one simple play they hit us with that Thibs had no idea how to answer. The one with White (guarded by Brunson) hitting KAT with a screen to free up his man, who then screened for Tatum numerous times who then killed us with his scoring or playmaking after our defense broke down from those actions. Every time without fail… it was pathetic.

because kat and brunson can't play defense. they're weak links. so they target them. that's a roster flaw not a coaching one.

That’s one of the key arguments this year. Man defense KAT n Brunson have proven they can hold their own. We’ve all been posting very specific instances of this as it happens during games and even with footage to back it up.

It’s when they’re put in situations like drop coverage (KAT) or certain rotations (Jalen) that they fail. Jalen is often lost on defense when things get tricky, and KAT in drop just has too much to do and read that he’s not capable of doing.

That’s why most people have been advocating for switching much more often so that these two can have a better opportunity to stay in front of their man. A lot of the times KAT gets burned 1 on 1 is when there’s a miscommunication or a breakdown and he’s a step behind… but straight up, he’s solid.

In the plays I mentioned… it’s Thibs call on how to defend it. These guys were fighting over the screens and rotating but were caught a step slow and behind and got beat. If they were instructed to switch it, KAT stay with White, Jalen peels off, Mikal switches onto KAT’s man screening for Tatum, that leaves Jalen prepared to pick up Tatum on the switch…and in that very game he did pick him up a couple times and successfully guarded him. We just need to do that a lot more often.

I know we’re just “guys on the internet” but that doesn’t mean we’re wrong and Thibs is always right. By that logic, Isiah Thomas and Scott Layden are infallible and can do a better job than every single person in the world because they’ve managed to stay in the league forever despite destroying this franchise. Nobody is above criticism and nobody is perfect.