Trades and Transactions Thread - 2025 Season Discussion

[spree2kawhi]

What can the Knicks get for the combined salaries of Hart and Mitch, plus a pick? What player is out there than can create AND hit a jump shot and not be afraid to take one?

It's either that or trading Mikal to a team that wants more "defense" but then stupidly trade a player who can drive the ball more than Mikal is willing to.

Otherwise, enjoy several more years of 45-48 wins and those 1st and 2nd round exits.

I don't know. I'm all for keeping the team together and trying to fix the depth. If a name pops that makes sense obviously we could talk about it but, I think they plan on running with this core for the next few years. So I'm ok with that plan. Just need to make the bench stronger. I also think we need a new HC but, whatever. Until that happens I don't really see an easy path because he doesn't play his bench anyways. Continuity next year should bring improvements all by itself. Crawl walk run. We are in the walking stage of things.

Yes and it isn’t even a fair assessment. All three have looked pretty good lately and most notably, Bridges has been aggressive and reliable. I’m happy with the roster and I’m not buying the doomsday narrative of our inability to upgrade a little bit over the summer. What’s more, the playoffs haven’t even started and meanwhile OG has looked like the second coming of Kawhi Leonard.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

What can the Knicks get for the combined salaries of Hart and Mitch, plus a pick? What player is out there than can create AND hit a jump shot and not be afraid to take one?

It's either that or trading Mikal to a team that wants more "defense" but then stupidly trade a player who can drive the ball more than Mikal is willing to.

Otherwise, enjoy several more years of 45-48 wins and those 1st and 2nd round exits.

I don't know. I'm all for keeping the team together and trying to fix the depth. If a name pops that makes sense obviously we could talk about it but, I think they plan on running with this core for the next few years. So I'm ok with that plan. Just need to make the bench stronger. I also think we need a new HC but, whatever. Until that happens I don't really see an easy path because he doesn't play his bench anyways. Continuity next year should bring improvements all by itself. Crawl walk run. We are in the walking stage of things.

Yes and it isn’t even a fair assessment. All three have looked pretty good lately and most notably, Bridges has been aggressive and reliable. I’m happy with the roster and I’m not buying the doomsday narrative of our inability to upgrade a little bit over the summer. What’s more, the playoffs haven’t even started and meanwhile OG has looked like the second coming of Kawhi Leonard.

Josh and Mitch make approx 32.3m both this year and next.

53
Immanuel Quickley
TOR, PG
$32,500,000
54
Jrue Holiday
BOS, PG
$32,400,000
55
Jerami Grant
POR, PF
$32,000,001
56
Jordan Poole
WAS, SG
$31,848,215
57
Dejounte Murray
NOP, PG
$31,557,102
58
Tyler Herro
MIA, SG
$31,000,000
59
Julius Randle
MIN, PF
$30,935,520
60
Kristaps Porzingis
BOS, PF
$30,731,707
61
C.J. McCollum
NOP, SG
$30,666,666
62
Jalen Johnson
ATL, SF
$30,000,000
63
Isaiah Hartenstein
OKC, C
$28,500,000
64
Andrew Wiggins
MIA, SF
$28,223,215
65
Derrick White
BOS, PG
$28,100,000
66
R.J. Barrett
TOR, SG
$27,705,357
67
Anfernee Simons
POR, SG
$27,678,571
68
Devin Vassell
SAS, SG
$27,000,000
69
Terry Rozier
MIA, PG
$26,643,031
70
Tobias Harris
DET, PF
$26,634,146
71
John Collins
UTA, PF
$26,580,000
72
Draymond Green
GSW, PF
$25,892,857
73
Nicolas Claxton
BKN, C
$25,352,272
74
Miles Bridges
CHA, SF
$25,000,000

Trey Murphy III
NOP, SF
$25,000,000
76

Jerami Grant? KP if the Celtics don't win the championship and the new owners are as cash-poor as advertised?

[Jalen Bluntson]

I don't know. I'm all for keeping the team together and trying to fix the depth. If a name pops that makes sense obviously we could talk about it but, I think they plan on running with this core for the next few years. So I'm ok with that plan. Just need to make the bench stronger. I also think we need a new HC but, whatever. Until that happens I don't really see an easy path because he doesn't play his bench anyways. Continuity next year should bring improvements all by itself. Crawl walk run. We are in the walking stage of things.

Yes and it isn’t even a fair assessment. All three have looked pretty good lately and most notably, Bridges has been aggressive and reliable. I’m happy with the roster and I’m not buying the doomsday narrative of our inability to upgrade a little bit over the summer. What’s more, the playoffs haven’t even started and meanwhile OG has looked like the second coming of Kawhi Leonard.

Josh and Mitch make approx 32.3m both this year and next.

53
Immanuel Quickley
TOR, PG
$32,500,000
54
Jrue Holiday
BOS, PG
$32,400,000
55
Jerami Grant
POR, PF
$32,000,001
56
Jordan Poole
WAS, SG
$31,848,215
57
Dejounte Murray
NOP, PG
$31,557,102
58
Tyler Herro
MIA, SG
$31,000,000
59
Julius Randle
MIN, PF
$30,935,520
60
Kristaps Porzingis
BOS, PF
$30,731,707
61
C.J. McCollum
NOP, SG
$30,666,666
62
Jalen Johnson
ATL, SF
$30,000,000
63
Isaiah Hartenstein
OKC, C
$28,500,000
64
Andrew Wiggins
MIA, SF
$28,223,215
65
Derrick White
BOS, PG
$28,100,000
66
R.J. Barrett
TOR, SG
$27,705,357
67
Anfernee Simons
POR, SG
$27,678,571
68
Devin Vassell
SAS, SG
$27,000,000
69
Terry Rozier
MIA, PG
$26,643,031
70
Tobias Harris
DET, PF
$26,634,146
71
John Collins
UTA, PF
$26,580,000
72
Draymond Green
GSW, PF
$25,892,857
73
Nicolas Claxton
BKN, C
$25,352,272
74
Miles Bridges
CHA, SF
$25,000,000

Trey Murphy III
NOP, SF
$25,000,000
76

Jerami Grant? KP if the Celtics don't win the championship and the new owners are as cash-poor as advertised?

We will be at a disadvantage in trades because of draft capital and of course these stupid apron rules but, there are ways to improve. I don't know that any big trade will happen but, there are ways to improve that don't include having to do so. It's a matter of the market and some luck. Maybe in the meantime we fully invest in development of our youth along the way. That would go a long way to helping the team if we hit on a couple of these picks.

There will time for this after the playoffs. Right now we are locked into the current roster appparently. Is PJ Tucker really the vet we brought in for the rest of the year? Head scratcher move,

[Richard4444]

Tax payer MLE is around 6 mil I believe? We should have around 17 mil to bring in at least 4 players and stay under the 2nd apron. My assumption has been they probably go over the 2nd apron the following season and ride out everyone's deals after that. Then they don't lose the pick or whatever that stupid rule is.

How are you getting to 17mm? Spotrac has us 11.5MM below the 2nd apron with 10 roster spots filled.

Assume two spots are a 2nd rd pick (1.3mm) and vet min (2.3mm). The you want to keep Precious bird rights at say $3mm for future trade purposes. That leaves $4.9mm out of the taxpayer MLE available and puts us right at the 2nd apron.

It’s very tight, and once Mikal’s extension kicks in the following year it’s 2 straight years in the 2nd apron before a roster re-set in the summer of 28

Math. We will be at 190mil with 10 players. The second apron is 207mil. You take 207 and subtract 190 and that leaves you with 17. When Mikals extension is due the cap goes up another 15.4mil.

Assuming things doesn't make them so but, do your own math. You just filled 4 spots using 7.9mil. that would leave us with about 9mil and one roster spot left. Not sure how you keep Precious bird rights for 3mil but, whatever.

According to Sportrac, we have 196,3M invested in 10 players for next season.
Brunson/Kolek
Mikal/Deuce
OG/
Hart/Pacome
KAT/MItch/Huk

That leaves us with a room of 11.5MM below the 2nd apron (207,8).

We can sign 2 SR or undrafted rookies for 1,35M each. Then, we can split the remaining 8,8M on Precious (by Bird Rights) and a Tax MLE player (up to 5,7M). Eventually, we can use the leftovers to sign a 15th player (pro rata min salary).

Another option is to sign 2 min salary vet players for 2,3M each. Then, use the remaining 6,9M to sign Precious or a Tax MLE player. Eventually, we can use the leftovers to sign a 15th player (pro rata min salary).

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

We will be at a disadvantage in trades because of draft capital and of course these stupid apron rules but, there are ways to improve. I don't know that any big trade will happen but, there are ways to improve that don't include having to do so. It's a matter of the market and some luck. Maybe in the meantime we fully invest in development of our youth along the way. That would go a long way to helping the team if we hit on a couple of these picks.

There will time for this after the playoffs. Right now we are locked into the current roster appparently. Is PJ Tucker really the vet we brought in for the rest of the year? Head scratcher move,

Thibs painted himself into a corner (again). PJ seems like a terrible option. But the chance to cut Delon Wright adrift seems to have sailed now.

So, I guess on 1st April the Knicks have 25 days worth of salary and, 13 days on which to spend it. I'd cut Payne and sign TJ and Okeke to rest of season contracts on 2nd April (or two of TJ, Okeke and Moses Brown). But I guess Thibs will just want to sign PJ to a rest of season deal and shut up shop for the year.

[Jalen Bluntson]

How are you getting to 17mm? Spotrac has us 11.5MM below the 2nd apron with 10 roster spots filled.

Assume two spots are a 2nd rd pick (1.3mm) and vet min (2.3mm). The you want to keep Precious bird rights at say $3mm for future trade purposes. That leaves $4.9mm out of the taxpayer MLE available and puts us right at the 2nd apron.

It’s very tight, and once Mikal’s extension kicks in the following year it’s 2 straight years in the 2nd apron before a roster re-set in the summer of 28

Math. We will be at 190mil with 10 players. The second apron is 207mil. You take 207 and subtract 190 and that leaves you with 17. When Mikals extension is due the cap goes up another 15.4mil.

Assuming things doesn't make them so but, do your own math. You just filled 4 spots using 7.9mil. that would leave us with about 9mil and one roster spot left. Not sure how you keep Precious bird rights for 3mil but, whatever.

According to Sportrac, we have 196,3M invested in 10 players for next season.
Brunson/Kolek
Mikal/Deuce
OG/
Hart/Pacome
KAT/MItch/Huk

That leaves us with a room of 11.5MM below the 2nd apron (207,8).

We can sign 2 SR or undrafted rookies for 1,35M each. Then, we can split the remaining 8,8M on Precious (by Bird Rights) and a Tax MLE player (up to 5,7M). Eventually, we can use the leftovers to sign a 15th player (pro rata min salary).

Another option is to sign 2 min salary vet players for 2,3M each. Then, use the remaining 6,9M to sign Precious or a Tax MLE player. Eventually, we can use the leftovers to sign a 15th player (pro rata min salary).

Oh. I had the wrong numbers. Awesome. We have even less money. That's always great. Where did I see 190? Must have been a tweet. I looked on bbref and got the 196+ number as well. That sucks ass.

Makes things worse than I previously thought. We are doomed. Blow it up for draft picks and start over!

[thebuzzardman]

I don't know. I'm all for keeping the team together and trying to fix the depth. If a name pops that makes sense obviously we could talk about it but, I think they plan on running with this core for the next few years. So I'm ok with that plan. Just need to make the bench stronger. I also think we need a new HC but, whatever. Until that happens I don't really see an easy path because he doesn't play his bench anyways. Continuity next year should bring improvements all by itself. Crawl walk run. We are in the walking stage of things.

Yes and it isn’t even a fair assessment. All three have looked pretty good lately and most notably, Bridges has been aggressive and reliable. I’m happy with the roster and I’m not buying the doomsday narrative of our inability to upgrade a little bit over the summer. What’s more, the playoffs haven’t even started and meanwhile OG has looked like the second coming of Kawhi Leonard.

Josh and Mitch make approx 32.3m both this year and next.

53
Immanuel Quickley
TOR, PG
$32,500,000
54
Jrue Holiday
BOS, PG
$32,400,000
55
Jerami Grant
POR, PF
$32,000,001
56
Jordan Poole
WAS, SG
$31,848,215
57
Dejounte Murray
NOP, PG
$31,557,102
58
Tyler Herro
MIA, SG
$31,000,000
59
Julius Randle
MIN, PF
$30,935,520
60
Kristaps Porzingis
BOS, PF
$30,731,707
61
C.J. McCollum
NOP, SG
$30,666,666
62
Jalen Johnson
ATL, SF
$30,000,000
63
Isaiah Hartenstein
OKC, C
$28,500,000
64
Andrew Wiggins
MIA, SF
$28,223,215
65
Derrick White
BOS, PG
$28,100,000
66
R.J. Barrett
TOR, SG
$27,705,357
67
Anfernee Simons
POR, SG
$27,678,571
68
Devin Vassell
SAS, SG
$27,000,000
69
Terry Rozier
MIA, PG
$26,643,031
70
Tobias Harris
DET, PF
$26,634,146
71
John Collins
UTA, PF
$26,580,000
72
Draymond Green
GSW, PF
$25,892,857
73
Nicolas Claxton
BKN, C
$25,352,272
74
Miles Bridges
CHA, SF
$25,000,000

Trey Murphy III
NOP, SF
$25,000,000
76

Jerami Grant? KP if the Celtics don't win the championship and the new owners are as cash-poor as advertised?

The bolded are the sort of player that would help, but aren't available.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Yes and it isn’t even a fair assessment. All three have looked pretty good lately and most notably, Bridges has been aggressive and reliable. I’m happy with the roster and I’m not buying the doomsday narrative of our inability to upgrade a little bit over the summer. What’s more, the playoffs haven’t even started and meanwhile OG has looked like the second coming of Kawhi Leonard.

Josh and Mitch make approx 32.3m both this year and next.

53
Immanuel Quickley
TOR, PG
$32,500,000
54
Jrue Holiday
BOS, PG
$32,400,000
55
Jerami Grant
POR, PF
$32,000,001
56
Jordan Poole
WAS, SG
$31,848,215
57
Dejounte Murray
NOP, PG
$31,557,102
58
Tyler Herro
MIA, SG
$31,000,000
59
Julius Randle
MIN, PF
$30,935,520
60
Kristaps Porzingis
BOS, PF
$30,731,707
61
C.J. McCollum
NOP, SG
$30,666,666
62
Jalen Johnson
ATL, SF
$30,000,000
63
Isaiah Hartenstein
OKC, C
$28,500,000
64
Andrew Wiggins
MIA, SF
$28,223,215
65
Derrick White
BOS, PG
$28,100,000
66
R.J. Barrett
TOR, SG
$27,705,357
67
Anfernee Simons
POR, SG
$27,678,571
68
Devin Vassell
SAS, SG
$27,000,000
69
Terry Rozier
MIA, PG
$26,643,031
70
Tobias Harris
DET, PF
$26,634,146
71
John Collins
UTA, PF
$26,580,000
72
Draymond Green
GSW, PF
$25,892,857
73
Nicolas Claxton
BKN, C
$25,352,272
74
Miles Bridges
CHA, SF
$25,000,000

Trey Murphy III
NOP, SF
$25,000,000
76

Jerami Grant? KP if the Celtics don't win the championship and the new owners are as cash-poor as advertised?

The bolded are the sort of player that would help, but aren't available.

Yeah, I didn't mention the ones who obviously won't be available for Josh, Mitch and picks. White is in that group. Vassell probably too. I'm not sure Tobais wouldn't be tbh. Pistons could probably take Josh and Dadiet for him (after July 1st). Depends on where they think their time-line really is now.

Otoh, I'm not sure Tobias is what the JB-KAT Knicks really need either.

[spree2kawhi]

I think we’d be jealous of the Celtics if they had Hart on their team. Imagine he had never played for us but put up this type of season next to Tatum and Brown. Everybody would want him here.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I think we’d be jealous of the Celtics if they had Hart on their team. Imagine he had never played for us but put up this type of season next to Tatum and Brown. Everybody would want him here.

I am a little disappointed with the pick situation being up against the apron like this. Cannot lie. I like the roster and would love to be deeper but, we are limited in what we can do. I don't want to trade any core players but if a trade made total sense, I'm not against it either. I'm still in the wait and see approach but, if the right player came along, no one is safe. We haven't even been together for a year yet. Constant turnover of the roster is like hitting reset every year. At some point you have to settle on a core and build around it.

[HopelessKnick]

What can the Knicks get for the combined salaries of Hart and Mitch, plus a pick? What player is out there than can create AND hit a jump shot and not be afraid to take one?

It's either that or trading Mikal to a team that wants more "defense" but then stupidly trade a player who can drive the ball more than Mikal is willing to.

Otherwise, enjoy several more years of 45-48 wins and those 1st and 2nd round exits.

The problem is that if you combine Mitch and Hart for one player coming back we get an even shorter rotation. I actually don't see Hart as a problem per se.....he is a great glue guy to have in your rotation...I don't think having a single reluctant shooter is going to break your chances....look at Cleveland they have Mobley/Allen in there all the time and both aren't 3point shooters per se. OKC has Hartenstein, Williams in their rotation and Dortz has just recently figured out to be effective from 3. SGA himself is shooting at 37% this season but is a career 35% shooter and doesn't shoot a high volume. You bring Hart off the bench and have him as a glue/energy/tough guy there...it is more about assigning players the right role etc. IMO.

[HopelessKnick]

I think what some completely underestimate and underappreciate is the degree of difficulty in adding strong bench players without picks and no tradable contract outside our top 6 players. If we agree that our top 7 are:

JB-Hart-Bridges-OG-KAT-Mitch-Deuce..... we'd essentially need 3 strong bench players. Those make 10+ millions. I see Deuce essentially as an 8th/9th man. Hart can be a legit 6th man. so we'd essentially need an 7th and 8th man. Those cost 10+ million easily. The ones that are cheaper are usually on rookie contracts or you strike gold like we did with Hartenstein, which is very rare. Take a look around the league in team salaries...you'll be shocked to see that guys making less than 10mill. are either rookies, old guys or 10th-15th guys on a roster.

This is why it would have been even more important to make a big time effort to develop our rookies. I think people think to themselves: Ok we'll get 2-3 good bench players and roll it back. With no picks available, and more importantly being over the cap with basically no tradable contracts outside our top 6 (which would defeat the purpose of getting deeper), adding to the bench is going to be a big time challenge---like even if a team would want to do business with us and give us a good bench player on the cheap it would barely be possible because we'd still not have the contract to make it work.

[spree2kawhi]

What can the Knicks get for the combined salaries of Hart and Mitch, plus a pick? What player is out there than can create AND hit a jump shot and not be afraid to take one?

It's either that or trading Mikal to a team that wants more "defense" but then stupidly trade a player who can drive the ball more than Mikal is willing to.

Otherwise, enjoy several more years of 45-48 wins and those 1st and 2nd round exits.

The problem is that if you combine Mitch and Hart for one player coming back we get an even shorter rotation. I actually don't see Hart as a problem per se.....he is a great glue guy to have in your rotation...I don't think having a single reluctant shooter is going to break your chances....look at Cleveland they have Mobley/Allen in there all the time and both aren't 3point shooters per se. OKC has Hartenstein, Williams in their rotation and Dortz has just recently figured out to be effective from 3. SGA himself is shooting at 37% this season but is a career 35% shooter and doesn't shoot a high volume. You bring Hart off the bench and have him as a glue/energy/tough guy there...it is more about assigning players the right role etc. IMO.

Both Hart and Mitch are incredibly valuable role players and should be going nowhere.

I was hyping up a Kessler+Sexton for Mitch+Deuce type of trade, but Mitch is a monster when healthy, so that’s turned into no from me. I like what we have. Maybe attempt to add Donte, move Hart to the bench, add a second 7-footer like Holmes, water the plants and we’ll be fine.

[spree8]

What can the Knicks get for the combined salaries of Hart and Mitch, plus a pick? What player is out there than can create AND hit a jump shot and not be afraid to take one?

It's either that or trading Mikal to a team that wants more "defense" but then stupidly trade a player who can drive the ball more than Mikal is willing to.

Otherwise, enjoy several more years of 45-48 wins and those 1st and 2nd round exits.

The problem is that if you combine Mitch and Hart for one player coming back we get an even shorter rotation. I actually don't see Hart as a problem per se.....he is a great glue guy to have in your rotation...I don't think having a single reluctant shooter is going to break your chances....look at Cleveland they have Mobley/Allen in there all the time and both aren't 3point shooters per se. OKC has Hartenstein, Williams in their rotation and Dortz has just recently figured out to be effective from 3. SGA himself is shooting at 37% this season but is a career 35% shooter and doesn't shoot a high volume. You bring Hart off the bench and have him as a glue/energy/tough guy there...it is more about assigning players the right role etc. IMO.

Both Hart and Mitch are incredibly valuable role players and should be going nowhere.

I was hyping up a Kessler+Sexton for Mitch+Deuce type of trade, but Mitch is a monster when healthy, so that’s turned into no from me. I like what we have. Maybe attempt to add Donte, move Hart to the bench, add a second 7-footer like Holmes, water the plants and we’ll be fine.

Yea I don’t think we should be trading Deuce anywhere honestly. His value to the team on that contract thru 2027 is too high to trade for whatever we’d get back unless it’s part of like a Giannis deal or something crazy like that. He really should be starting next to Brunson tho… I think he’d be even more valuable in that role.

[spree2kawhi]

The problem is that if you combine Mitch and Hart for one player coming back we get an even shorter rotation. I actually don't see Hart as a problem per se.....he is a great glue guy to have in your rotation...I don't think having a single reluctant shooter is going to break your chances....look at Cleveland they have Mobley/Allen in there all the time and both aren't 3point shooters per se. OKC has Hartenstein, Williams in their rotation and Dortz has just recently figured out to be effective from 3. SGA himself is shooting at 37% this season but is a career 35% shooter and doesn't shoot a high volume. You bring Hart off the bench and have him as a glue/energy/tough guy there...it is more about assigning players the right role etc. IMO.

Both Hart and Mitch are incredibly valuable role players and should be going nowhere.

I was hyping up a Kessler+Sexton for Mitch+Deuce type of trade, but Mitch is a monster when healthy, so that’s turned into no from me. I like what we have. Maybe attempt to add Donte, move Hart to the bench, add a second 7-footer like Holmes, water the plants and we’ll be fine.

Yea I don’t think we should be trading Deuce anywhere honestly. His value to the team on that contract thru 2027 is too high to trade for whatever we’d get back unless it’s part of like a Giannis deal or something crazy like that. He really should be starting next to Brunson tho… I think he’d be even more valuable in that role.

I agree, and I would also love to add Giannis, but I think it’s more likely that he’ll retire a Buck. With that said, bringing Hart and Mitch off the bench should unlock great runs. While I’d start Mitch over Deuce, I like the idea anyway. It’s clear to me that Hart is a bench guy, but also untouchable at the same time.

Brunson, Deuce, Mikal, OG, Towns
Brunson, Mikal, OG, Towns, Mitch

It’s either or, really. A bench with Hart will thrive.

[thebuzzardman]

What can the Knicks get for the combined salaries of Hart and Mitch, plus a pick? What player is out there than can create AND hit a jump shot and not be afraid to take one?

It's either that or trading Mikal to a team that wants more "defense" but then stupidly trade a player who can drive the ball more than Mikal is willing to.

Otherwise, enjoy several more years of 45-48 wins and those 1st and 2nd round exits.

The problem is that if you combine Mitch and Hart for one player coming back we get an even shorter rotation. I actually don't see Hart as a problem per se.....he is a great glue guy to have in your rotation...I don't think having a single reluctant shooter is going to break your chances....look at Cleveland they have Mobley/Allen in there all the time and both aren't 3point shooters per se. OKC has Hartenstein, Williams in their rotation and Dortz has just recently figured out to be effective from 3. SGA himself is shooting at 37% this season but is a career 35% shooter and doesn't shoot a high volume. You bring Hart off the bench and have him as a glue/energy/tough guy there...it is more about assigning players the right role etc. IMO.

There's an overall roster construction issue.

It's not so poorly constructed the team doesn't win. It's a 50 win team. Even if it winds up with 49 this year, that's essentially what it is.
Not the separation of being a 55,58,60 win team. That 2nd tier, 5th best team in the league thing.
Which isn't the end of the world, just kind of sucks to be there after trading Randle, Donte and 6 picks.

Brunson and KAT aren't the greatest defenders, yet Thibs won't scheme a thing to help
OG, Hart and Mikal are decent offensively, but none of them are the 2nd creative guy with the ball that most teams have (Randle wasn't either, so f*ck that, though he probably provided more on ball gravity than Mikal, lets not get carried away)

IF a coach decides to play Mitch, then the Knicks can't go 5 out, the thing that makes KAT really good.
IF Hart is one of "can't shoot/won't shoot" slumps, 5 out isn't a good
IF Mitch in and Hart is playing like that and also in the lineup, it kind of blows

Mikal and OG aren't good rebounders for their position, so Thibs will insist on playing Hart, possibly rightly so

And then the bench essentially sucks after Deuce and Mitch, and Mitch is always hurt or needing 20 games to get "acclimated" after missing a season.

Now, it's unfair to say the bench "sucks" after Deuce and Mitch, but Payne, Shamet and Precious are exactly nothing special; they are the kinds of players GOOD teams routinely find. They look ok to Knick fans because our rosters have been horrible for years.

Hukporti, Dadiet, Kolek and McCullars MIGHT be ok/decent/actually good, but we wouldn't know because they never get to play.


FO isn't doing Thibs any favors, but Thibs is too hidebound to adjust to his personnel.

He's out, but if Deuce was healthy I'd start him over Hart
They'd lose some height, but I'd play Payne and Kolek and Shamet wouldn't play anymore.
And have Thibs do some crazy stuff like play Brunson off ball more and Mikal on ball more.
Oh, since Hart isn't starting, Thibs wouldn't have to insist on having him simulate being PG so much, so Mikal could take that role.

But, they still wouldn't beat very good teams. Might be a little more competitive.


Welp, either the FO pulls off some wild, unforeseen trade or there's incredible internal development from McCullars, Dadiet, Kolek and Hukporti. Considering they are all late first/2nd rounders, what are the odds?
They'll probably be solid replacements for Mitch, Payne, Precious, Shamet, though. Maybe.

[thebuzzardman]

What can the Knicks get for the combined salaries of Hart and Mitch, plus a pick? What player is out there than can create AND hit a jump shot and not be afraid to take one?

It's either that or trading Mikal to a team that wants more "defense" but then stupidly trade a player who can drive the ball more than Mikal is willing to.

Otherwise, enjoy several more years of 45-48 wins and those 1st and 2nd round exits.

The problem is that if you combine Mitch and Hart for one player coming back we get an even shorter rotation. I actually don't see Hart as a problem per se.....he is a great glue guy to have in your rotation...I don't think having a single reluctant shooter is going to break your chances....look at Cleveland they have Mobley/Allen in there all the time and both aren't 3point shooters per se. OKC has Hartenstein, Williams in their rotation and Dortz has just recently figured out to be effective from 3. SGA himself is shooting at 37% this season but is a career 35% shooter and doesn't shoot a high volume. You bring Hart off the bench and have him as a glue/energy/tough guy there...it is more about assigning players the right role etc. IMO.

Both Hart and Mitch are incredibly valuable role players and should be going nowhere.

I was hyping up a Kessler+Sexton for Mitch+Deuce type of trade, but Mitch is a monster when healthy, so that’s turned into no from me. I like what we have. Maybe attempt to add Donte, move Hart to the bench, add a second 7-footer like Holmes, water the plants and we’ll be fine.

They are good role players, but if you don't trade them for the obvious big roster change that is needed, who is it?

Brunson?
KAT?
Mikal?

There aren't any real assets. And the Knicks aren't LA, where the league office calls up the other teams GM and says "Yeah, make that trade happen"

[thebuzzardman]

Players that should rarely be on the floor together:

Mitch, Precious, Hart

Any two together is a bad idea
All three is a disaster

Of course, Thibs has had all 3 out there together.
Granted, for short stretches.

IF Hart is in one of his streaks where he actually shoots and makes some, then MAYBE he can be out there with either Precious or Mitch.

[Jalen Bluntson]

The problem is that if you combine Mitch and Hart for one player coming back we get an even shorter rotation. I actually don't see Hart as a problem per se.....he is a great glue guy to have in your rotation...I don't think having a single reluctant shooter is going to break your chances....look at Cleveland they have Mobley/Allen in there all the time and both aren't 3point shooters per se. OKC has Hartenstein, Williams in their rotation and Dortz has just recently figured out to be effective from 3. SGA himself is shooting at 37% this season but is a career 35% shooter and doesn't shoot a high volume. You bring Hart off the bench and have him as a glue/energy/tough guy there...it is more about assigning players the right role etc. IMO.

Both Hart and Mitch are incredibly valuable role players and should be going nowhere.

I was hyping up a Kessler+Sexton for Mitch+Deuce type of trade, but Mitch is a monster when healthy, so that’s turned into no from me. I like what we have. Maybe attempt to add Donte, move Hart to the bench, add a second 7-footer like Holmes, water the plants and we’ll be fine.

They are good role players, but if you don't trade them for the obvious big roster change that is needed, who is it?

Brunson?
KAT?
Mikal?

There aren't any real assets. And the Knicks aren't LA, where the league office calls up the other teams GM and says "Yeah, make that trade happen"

I think the gamble is Mitch staying healthy for a full season. He needs to start to really help with our depth and defensive issues. Even if he only plays 24 mpg. It makes us deeper automatically.

We also are going to have to develop at least one or two of these kids into NBA players. Internal development. It is the cap and apron rules that are our biggest hurdle to improving. Followed closely by not having any FRPs to trade for at least one more year. We really need at least Kolek /Hukporti to be good bench players.

Whatever scrap heap players we get with our spare change needs to be of some level of quality. That's a very difficult task as well.

We are pretty limited but, I think continuity and internal development are important moving forward. The HC has t make it work. That's the only other change I can see right now. The trade market is going to be tricky and we really don't have the cap,space to think FA is gonna help much. We don't have salary to add to picks in trades without moving a "core player". That can change moving forward though if a deal makes sense and we start getting our picks back. I am not counting on that right now.

We are up against it for sure but, we are closer than we have been in a very long time. Buckle up and try to enjoy the ride.

[spree2kawhi]

The problem is that if you combine Mitch and Hart for one player coming back we get an even shorter rotation. I actually don't see Hart as a problem per se.....he is a great glue guy to have in your rotation...I don't think having a single reluctant shooter is going to break your chances....look at Cleveland they have Mobley/Allen in there all the time and both aren't 3point shooters per se. OKC has Hartenstein, Williams in their rotation and Dortz has just recently figured out to be effective from 3. SGA himself is shooting at 37% this season but is a career 35% shooter and doesn't shoot a high volume. You bring Hart off the bench and have him as a glue/energy/tough guy there...it is more about assigning players the right role etc. IMO.

Both Hart and Mitch are incredibly valuable role players and should be going nowhere.

I was hyping up a Kessler+Sexton for Mitch+Deuce type of trade, but Mitch is a monster when healthy, so that’s turned into no from me. I like what we have. Maybe attempt to add Donte, move Hart to the bench, add a second 7-footer like Holmes, water the plants and we’ll be fine.

They are good role players, but if you don't trade them for the obvious big roster change that is needed, who is it?

Brunson?
KAT?
Mikal?

There aren't any real assets. And the Knicks aren't LA, where the league office calls up the other teams GM and says "Yeah, make that trade happen"

I don’t think a big trade is what we need. Who’s your target? Who’s better at their salary?