2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V

[Ghost of Kleine]

Eric Pincus trade Idea -- I am all for it - -this is what needs to happen. Maybe not this exact trade but this is the type of return the Suns could get for Booker and Durant. It could really kickstart the rebuild process

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Spurs get:

Devin Booker (from Suns)
Josh Okogie (from Hornets)
Jae'Sean Tate (from Rockets)
Jeff Green (from Rockets)
$5 million trade exception (Malaki Branham)
Rockets get

Kevin Durant (from Suns)
Suns get:

Devin Vassell (from Spurs)
Harrison Barnes (from Spurs)
Keldon Johnson (from Spurs)
Jabari Smith Jr. (from Rockets)
Reed Sheppard (from Rockets)
Cam Whitmore (from Rockets)
Aaron Holiday (from Rockets)
2025 Suns own first-rounder (from Rockets)
2025 unprotected first-rounder (from Spurs)
2027 protected Miami Heat first-rounder (from Hornets)- **1-14 lottery protected.
2029 protected first-rounder (from Spurs)
$12.7 million trade exception (Devin Booker)

Hornets get:

Malaki Branham (from Spurs)
Jock Landale (from Rockets)
2025 Atlanta Hawks first-rounder (from Spurs)

I actually find this value rather poor when breaking it down between the two players man! I mean the picks are underwhelming between moving both KD and Booker. And the players although solid for KD are thee only really decent part of this trade, honestly. The overall trade is deceptive in that as it's combining two trades into one, the value for each player traded is blended to hide true value return of each, but when separated, you get:

KD to Houston-
KD for Smith Jr/ Sheppard/ Whitmore/ Tate/ Holiday/ PHX 25 1st ( 12th pick).
Smith Jr is solid, Whitmore is solid, but Sheppard is an undersized 6'2 guard who hasn't really shown much yet (averaging 3 points/ 1 rebound/ 1 assist on 33% FG and 27% 3PT, so he's basically a 6'2 point guard version of Shamet; I'd rather pass! He's meh value currently as a $10 million poor-value salary filler at best. You also can't include Tate because he's an unrestricted free agent, and Holiday, while somewhat decent, is still nothing more than a bench-scoring guard option that you can find a "dime a dozen" in free agency on a vet minimum. So basically, the only real value you're getting here is:

- a salary dump of around $ 27 million.
- two young prospects.
- Salary fillers.
- 1 late lotto pick.
Again, Not terrible if we're prioritizing salary dumping KDs' money. But the singular 1st makes this trade a bit light in value because we'd obviously be rebuilding. And the cap savings mean little to a tanking team short on picks. I say this because KD's value is currently around 2 good young talents with upside, vet Salary fillers, and 2 solid 1sts. We're short by at least another 1st. This gap would be bridged if Sheppard had proved anything yet aside from being drafted high and riding the razor's edge of being considered a bust soon. But obviously, if we're trading BOTH Booker and KD, we're rebuilding and need young players AND picks (plural) far more than cap space.


Booker to San Antonio (This one, the value is so bad that it's low-key insulting)!
Booker for Vassell/ Barnes/ Johnson/ SAS 25' 1st (8th pick)/ MIA 27' 1st (lottery protected)/ SAS 29' protected 1st/ 12 million TPE. So, basically, it breaks down like this:

- Vassell is a solid but not great young player on a big 4-year multiyear salary. We're eating Vassells' 27 million until 2029.
- Johnson is a solid rotation level undersized (6'5) SF/PF with a limited skillset making 17 million over the next two seasons. Again, we're eating another multi-year salary for the privilege of helping the Spurs maintain cap flexibility! Altogether, we're taking back 44 million and only saving 10 million in the trade.
- Barnes's 19 million expiring. Why are we eating Barnes expiring just to help San Antonio create more cap space here?? Bookers' salary is only 53 million next season, but altogether with taking back these 3 contracts, we're taking back 64 million for San Antonio! Why are we taking back 11 million more than is necessary to help them? where's our compensation for this?
- SAS 25' 1st (8th pick).
- MIA 27' 1st (Lottery protected). So basically a 16 or later 1st that might not even convey if Miami struggles in 27.
- SAS 29' 1st (Protected). So basically, with having all of Wemby/ Fox/ Booker/ Castle well into their primes on top of the cap flexibility we've helped them get to add quality depth pieces. we're most likely looking at a mid to late 1st at best (likely in the 20s!!

So overall, we're giving up the best talent/value in the trade and eating two multiyear salaries that the Spurs wanna dump. We're also eating an unnecessary additional 20 million to help them create more cap flexibility, We're not getting Castle or any premium young star talent back while giving up our franchise player. And to add insult to injury, we're really only getting one lottery pick back and two protected mid to late 1sts at best! Taking back two undersized, overpaid wings is completely unnecessary, and then taking back Barnes' additional 19 million on top of their $44 million (multi-year deals is egregious). And then getting only 1 premium first and two mediocre mid to late firsts is completely inexcusable and insultingly bad value.

Also, why are the Hornets even in this trade when they don't need to be at all? And why are they getting compensated for giving up a mid to late 1st in the trade but getting the ATL first, which is a higher value 1st than what they're giving up? Both the Spurs and the Hornets are stealing significant value here while we give up our franchise player in Booker and eat two big salary deals, plus take back a 3rd from a treeam that already has significant cap space, further limiting our cap space acquired from the Houston/ KD salary dump trade for at least the next two to three years. And we get a total of two lotto picks and two protected mid to late 1sts for trading both of our stars!!!

That's Smith Jr/ Sheppard/ Whitmore/ Vassell/Johnson/ Barnes/2 lottery picks and two mid to late 1sts in total value??? And from taking back Barnes's $ 19 million on top of Vassell and Sochan, we'd also only save around 7 million in cap space next season! This is just a horrific value return for KD and Book!

1- We shouldn't be taking back any multi-year contracts! Or eating money just to help another team.
2- KD in that Houston trade should at minimum pull another 1st (our 27' 1st)!!!! Especially when Sheppard is still completely unproven and carries no positive trade value.
3- We shouldn't be accepting any freaking protected picks back for our star players in trades! Getting only 2 lotto 1sts and two mid to late 1sts back in total is disgustingly unacceptable!!!
4- There's absolutely no logical reason for Charlotte to even be involved in this Booker/ Spurs trade! The ZSpurs have plenty of picks, and if anything, that ATL 25' 1st should be coming to us instead of some craptastic future protected 1sts. Only getting 1 lottery 1st and two future protected mediocre 1sts is beyond description bad! especially when Booker's consensus market value is listed at 2-3 very good young players, fillers, and 3-4 premium 1sts.

I'm sorry, but Eric Pincus should not be doing any more trades if they're this horrifically bad!

[Ghost of Kleine]

I guess if we do take Vassell from them, we could maybe send him onto Detroit and maybe get their Thompson brother. That'd be ideal.

I'm currently looking into the best possible trade destinations for Vassell! But yes, I totally agree with you on trading him elsewhere if at all possible.

I'm looking primarily on trading him to teams like:

1- Washington. Maybe Vassell for Smart/ Bey/ CHI 26 2nd/ PHX 26' 2nd?
2- Sacramento. Maybe Vassell for Monk/ La Ravia (would replace Allen, so we could trade him easier)/ SAC 26 2nd/ SAC 28' 2nd.
3- Brooklyn Maybe Vassell for Clowney/Maxwell Lewis/ BRK 26' 2nd/ 26' ATL 2nd?
4- Detroit. Maybe Vassell for Fontecchio/ Sasser/ Klintman/ DET 26' 1st (lottery protected)?
5- Charlotte. Maybe Vassell for Nurkic expiring (LOL .....I couldn't resist) / Nick Smith Jr/ DEN 26' 2nd/ GS 26' 2nd.
** Nurkics' 19 million expiring could be very solid for our cap reduction interests!

I really like him in Detroit, as they need a SG to play along side Cade. I'm sure we can get Ivey and maybe extra stuff. My preference would be to get their Thompson if at all possible. With Holland there, I'm hoping he's stealable.

I'd love that, man! I'm just not sure other teams see him having that value at his current salary and years though. But if we're possible, And they are willing to do it, I'm all for it!

[Ghost of Kleine]

So I guess its just me who wants to keep KD and Book. Trade Beal for what I saw someone here said for anything that has a pulse. I like Beal but this man makes A.D and Zion look like iron men. I'm keeping Oso, Gillepsie, Dunn, Martin and Richards. Btw i'm shocked Bud still hasn't run plays for Richards who showed he has a mid range game. He could easily run a PnR or a PnP with him and Kd or Book, Bud is just dumb at times but back to next season, surround Kd and Book with 2 way role players in every position

I'm not completely opposed to it IF we actually had mechanisms to add the right pieces around KD and Book to legitimately be highly competitive! And I'd wager many feel the same way too! The only problem is that Ishbia completely screwed us out of any flexibility, all of our assets, and our entire future too in a couple of years while other obnoxious and arrogant teams cash in every year on our misfortune building their futures with our lottery picks! It's like paying someone to kick your azz repeatedly, but then wait for you to get up and then they kick you in the balls, and then you thank them for it! And tell them same time tomorrow please!!!

So unless Beal somehow decides he's open to being traded anywhere and some team miraculously decides they're willing to give up value for him, KD and Booker are really our only remaining options to pivot legitimately and recover assets and flexibility. Ishbia really backed us into a corner and then kept digging the hole deeper and deeper and now we just don't have any other options left!

[Ghost of Kleine]

Spoiler:

Well, i guess you got Sam Amico reporting it...must be legit.

Also:

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/newsletters.lockedonpodcasts.com/nba/locked-on-spurs/kevin-durant-to-san-antonio-spurs-trade-rumor%3f_amp=true

https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/nba-trade-idea-partners-kevin-durant-with-victor-wembanyama-01jp3fr2ph6y

https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/rumor-nba-offseason-rumors-spurs-plan-blockbuster-trade-land-kevin-durant-next-victor-wembanyama

https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/could_spurs_pull_off_kevin_durant_trade_heist_with_suns/s1_17113_41971615

So there's these too....lol.

OK, I think all of these are referencing Brett Siegel's column, and what is interesting about what he says, is that he lists a bunch of teams that apparently called the Suns about KD and/or were interested about him (Warriors, Mavs, Rockets, Hawks, Timberwolves) and then what he says about the Spurs says nothing about there being reports they are interested, but more about people whispering about the possibility they could be....

There have been whispers among league personnel about the possibility of the Spurs pursuing Durant

Here is a link to the entire column..., but I would venture to say most of those other teams that already certainly were interested are more likely.

https://clutchpoints.com/nba/nba-stories/how-nba-new-208-million-second-apron-impacts-trades-free-agency-siegels-scoop

That is interesting man.

I guess we'll find out in the coming months for sure though! I'm just glad there's multiple teams to bid which bodes well for a better return than the Butler fiasco. For my part, I still think where there's smoke, there's fire! or, at the very least, embers waiting to catch!

[KLEON]

So I guess its just me who wants to keep KD and Book. Trade Beal for what I saw someone here said for anything that has a pulse. I like Beal but this man makes A.D and Zion look like iron men. I'm keeping Oso, Gillepsie, Dunn, Martin and Richards. Btw i'm shocked Bud still hasn't run plays for Richards who showed he has a mid range game. He could easily run a PnR or a PnP with him and Kd or Book, Bud is just dumb at times but back to next season, surround Kd and Book with 2 way role players in every position

I'm not completely opposed to it IF we actually had mechanisms to add the right pieces around KD and Book to legitimately be highly competitive! And I'd wager many feel the same way too! The only problem is that Ishbia completely screwed us out of any flexibility, all of our assets, and our entire future too in a couple of years while other obnoxious and arrogant teams cash in every year on our misfortune building their futures with our lottery picks! It's like paying someone to kick your azz repeatedly, but then wait for you to get up and then they kick you in the balls, and then you thank them for it! And tell them same time tomorrow please!!!

So unless Beal somehow decides he's open to being traded anywhere and some team miraculously decides they're willing to give up value for him, KD and Booker are really our only remaining options to pivot legitimately and recover assets and flexibility. Ishbia really backed us into a corner and then kept digging the hole deeper and deeper and now we just don't have any other options left!

Do you have an idea on what the Wiz were offering for Beal at the deadline?

[handsome salary]

Where's all the exciting talk about trying to make the play in?

In all the years Ive been watching NBA ball the Suns would be eliminated at this point in the standings but no, more meaningless games for .0001 hope.
Greatest Susn ever DBook is leading them to the promised land.

[sunsbg]

Hot Bulls let us down like our own Suns do. Magic beat the Kings.

[Ghost of Kleine]

So I guess its just me who wants to keep KD and Book. Trade Beal for what I saw someone here said for anything that has a pulse. I like Beal but this man makes A.D and Zion look like iron men. I'm keeping Oso, Gillepsie, Dunn, Martin and Richards. Btw i'm shocked Bud still hasn't run plays for Richards who showed he has a mid range game. He could easily run a PnR or a PnP with him and Kd or Book, Bud is just dumb at times but back to next season, surround Kd and Book with 2 way role players in every position

I'm not completely opposed to it IF we actually had mechanisms to add the right pieces around KD and Book to legitimately be highly competitive! And I'd wager many feel the same way too! The only problem is that Ishbia completely screwed us out of any flexibility, all of our assets, and our entire future too in a couple of years while other obnoxious and arrogant teams cash in every year on our misfortune building their futures with our lottery picks! It's like paying someone to kick your azz repeatedly, but then wait for you to get up and then they kick you in the balls, and then you thank them for it! And tell them same time tomorrow please!!!

So unless Beal somehow decides he's open to being traded anywhere and some team miraculously decides they're willing to give up value for him, KD and Booker are really our only remaining options to pivot legitimately and recover assets and flexibility. Ishbia really backed us into a corner and then kept digging the hole deeper and deeper and now we just don't have any other options left!

Do you have an idea on what the Wiz were offering for Beal at the deadline?

Although no sources have stated specific details in what level of value the Wizards were seeking to take back Beal,
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/bradley-beal-back-to-wizards-only-two-teams-in-the-league-considered-suns-trade-proposal-per-report/

As their willingness to acquire Beal showed, the Wizards were happy to take on bad contracts in exchange for future assets.

Most rumors only mentioned future assets................... As in our CLE 27' and CLE 29' 1sts, most likely, as many discussions had the cost of offloading Beal at 2 1sts (due to his remaining money and perceived negative contract value. The likely player package coming back for salary purposes would've been Poole/ Bagley/ Holmes/ Davis/ Baldwin Jr.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[bwgood77]

Well, at this point I think Dallas will finish above us if AD stays healthy and they get back a center. However, I think we can finish above the Kings. They only have like 2 easy games left, unless you count us. We have a tough schedule all the way up until our final two as well, so we will have to beat a good team.

It may come down to that final game against the Kings. Does anyone know if we beat them who would hold the tiebreaker? We are up 2-1 now. Does it go to division record next? Conference record?

Seems like it would go to division record, where we have a much better record, but they have a much better conference record.

[Saberestar]

Well, at this point I think Dallas will finish above us if AD stays healthy and they get back a center. However, I think we can finish above the Kings. They only have like 2 easy games left, unless you count us. We have a tough schedule all the way up until our final two as well, so we will have to beat a good team.

It may come down to that final game against the Kings. Does anyone know if we beat them who would hold the tiebreaker? We are up 2-1 now. Does it go to division record next? Conference record?

Seems like it would go to division record, where we have a much better record, but they have a much better conference record.

Duane Rankin talked about it a few days ago. We would hold the tiebreaker. We have that advantage over Dallas and Sacramento.

[BobbieL]

So I guess its just me who wants to keep KD and Book. Trade Beal for what I saw someone here said for anything that has a pulse. I like Beal but this man makes A.D and Zion look like iron men. I'm keeping Oso, Gillepsie, Dunn, Martin and Richards. Btw i'm shocked Bud still hasn't run plays for Richards who showed he has a mid range game. He could easily run a PnR or a PnP with him and Kd or Book, Bud is just dumb at times but back to next season, surround Kd and Book with 2 way role players in every position

I'm not completely opposed to it IF we actually had mechanisms to add the right pieces around KD and Book to legitimately be highly competitive! And I'd wager many feel the same way too! The only problem is that Ishbia completely screwed us out of any flexibility, all of our assets, and our entire future too in a couple of years while other obnoxious and arrogant teams cash in every year on our misfortune building their futures with our lottery picks! It's like paying someone to kick your azz repeatedly, but then wait for you to get up and then they kick you in the balls, and then you thank them for it! And tell them same time tomorrow please!!!

So unless Beal somehow decides he's open to being traded anywhere and some team miraculously decides they're willing to give up value for him, KD and Booker are really our only remaining options to pivot legitimately and recover assets and flexibility. Ishbia really backed us into a corner and then kept digging the hole deeper and deeper and now we just don't have any other options left!

Do you have an idea on what the Wiz were offering for Beal at the deadline?

It wouldn't have been much and would have cost the team a draft pick

Beal won't get many assets back and if you trade him, it will cost a draft pick to trade. So losing more asset. He is an expiring in two seasons - let it play out

It starts with Booker and Durant - hopefully Ishbia realizes that.
If they lose to Houston today, the suns will be 1.5 games behind Sacramento for the tenth seed

This team cannot be blown up soon enough

[Calvin Klein]

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why the **** do they cut so much of these clips? they could have said something completely different for all i know. They cut every 2 or 3 words

looks like homer in rock bottom

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[Saberestar]

So I guess its just me who wants to keep KD and Book. Trade Beal for what I saw someone here said for anything that has a pulse. I like Beal but this man makes A.D and Zion look like iron men. I'm keeping Oso, Gillepsie, Dunn, Martin and Richards. Btw i'm shocked Bud still hasn't run plays for Richards who showed he has a mid range game. He could easily run a PnR or a PnP with him and Kd or Book, Bud is just dumb at times but back to next season, surround Kd and Book with 2 way role players in every position

I want to keep them too.

[Rebound Mound]

I am more and more convinced that we should move all three stars and Oneale, plus Plumlee, with the objective of finding players that fit these three characteristics:
- aged between 24-28.
- space to grow.
- strong character and/or good worth ethic.
- athletic, multipositional.
- create a group that can work together and implement with them a modern, active, original way of playing.

My idea would not be finding draft picks and young players, but players who could be in a position to blossom in 2/3 years as a maximum.

The Rockets have some of them, but Jabari and another young player or 'our' pick back would do, in this case.
For Booker I would need two players that can be good scorers or have creativity.
For Beal a good C or a good PG.

Examples:
Jabari
Castle
Bane
Toppin
Bridges (does not fit the above mention)

[BobbieL]

Eric Pincus trade Idea -- I am all for it - -this is what needs to happen. Maybe not this exact trade but this is the type of return the Suns could get for Booker and Durant. It could really kickstart the rebuild process

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Spurs get:

Devin Booker (from Suns)
Josh Okogie (from Hornets)
Jae'Sean Tate (from Rockets)
Jeff Green (from Rockets)
$5 million trade exception (Malaki Branham)
Rockets get

Kevin Durant (from Suns)
Suns get:

Devin Vassell (from Spurs)
Harrison Barnes (from Spurs)
Keldon Johnson (from Spurs)
Jabari Smith Jr. (from Rockets)
Reed Sheppard (from Rockets)
Cam Whitmore (from Rockets)
Aaron Holiday (from Rockets)
2025 Suns own first-rounder (from Rockets)
2025 unprotected first-rounder (from Spurs)
2027 protected Miami Heat first-rounder (from Hornets)- **1-14 lottery protected.
2029 protected first-rounder (from Spurs)
$12.7 million trade exception (Devin Booker)

Hornets get:

Malaki Branham (from Spurs)
Jock Landale (from Rockets)
2025 Atlanta Hawks first-rounder (from Spurs)

I actually find this value rather poor when breaking it down between the two players man! I mean the picks are underwhelming between moving both KD and Booker. And the players although solid for KD are thee only really decent part of this trade, honestly. The overall trade is deceptive in that as it's combining two trades into one, the value for each player traded is blended to hide true value return of each, but when separated, you get:

KD to Houston-
KD for Smith Jr/ Sheppard/ Whitmore/ Tate/ Holiday/ PHX 25 1st ( 12th pick).
Smith Jr is solid, Whitmore is solid, but Sheppard is an undersized 6'2 guard who hasn't really shown much yet (averaging 3 points/ 1 rebound/ 1 assist on 33% FG and 27% 3PT, so he's basically a 6'2 point guard version of Shamet; I'd rather pass! He's meh value currently as a $10 million poor-value salary filler at best. You also can't include Tate because he's an unrestricted free agent, and Holiday, while somewhat decent, is still nothing more than a bench-scoring guard option that you can find a "dime a dozen" in free agency on a vet minimum. So basically, the only real value you're getting here is:

- a salary dump of around $ 27 million.
- two young prospects.
- Salary fillers.
- 1 late lotto pick.
Again, Not terrible if we're prioritizing salary dumping KDs' money. But the singular 1st makes this trade a bit light in value because we'd obviously be rebuilding. And the cap savings mean little to a tanking team short on picks. I say this because KD's value is currently around 2 good young talents with upside, vet Salary fillers, and 2 solid 1sts. We're short by at least another 1st. This gap would be bridged if Sheppard had proved anything yet aside from being drafted high and riding the razor's edge of being considered a bust soon. But obviously, if we're trading BOTH Booker and KD, we're rebuilding and need young players AND picks (plural) far more than cap space.


Booker to San Antonio (This one, the value is so bad that it's low-key insulting)!
Booker for Vassell/ Barnes/ Johnson/ SAS 25' 1st (8th pick)/ MIA 27' 1st (lottery protected)/ SAS 29' protected 1st/ 12 million TPE. So, basically, it breaks down like this:

- Vassell is a solid but not great young player on a big 4-year multiyear salary. We're eating Vassells' 27 million until 2029.
- Johnson is a solid rotation level undersized (6'5) SF/PF with a limited skillset making 17 million over the next two seasons. Again, we're eating another multi-year salary for the privilege of helping the Spurs maintain cap flexibility! Altogether, we're taking back 44 million and only saving 10 million in the trade.
- Barnes's 19 million expiring. Why are we eating Barnes expiring just to help San Antonio create more cap space here?? Bookers' salary is only 53 million next season, but altogether with taking back these 3 contracts, we're taking back 64 million for San Antonio! Why are we taking back 11 million more than is necessary to help them? where's our compensation for this?
- SAS 25' 1st (8th pick).
- MIA 27' 1st (Lottery protected). So basically a 16 or later 1st that might not even convey if Miami struggles in 27.
- SAS 29' 1st (Protected). So basically, with having all of Wemby/ Fox/ Booker/ Castle well into their primes on top of the cap flexibility we've helped them get to add quality depth pieces. we're most likely looking at a mid to late 1st at best (likely in the 20s!!

So overall, we're giving up the best talent/value in the trade and eating two multiyear salaries that the Spurs wanna dump. We're also eating an unnecessary additional 20 million to help them create more cap flexibility, We're not getting Castle or any premium young star talent back while giving up our franchise player. And to add insult to injury, we're really only getting one lottery pick back and two protected mid to late 1sts at best! Taking back two undersized, overpaid wings is completely unnecessary, and then taking back Barnes' additional 19 million on top of their $44 million (multi-year deals is egregious). And then getting only 1 premium first and two mediocre mid to late firsts is completely inexcusable and insultingly bad value.

Also, why are the Hornets even in this trade when they don't need to be at all? And why are they getting compensated for giving up a mid to late 1st in the trade but getting the ATL first, which is a higher value 1st than what they're giving up? Both the Spurs and the Hornets are stealing significant value here while we give up our franchise player in Booker and eat two big salary deals, plus take back a 3rd from a treeam that already has significant cap space, further limiting our cap space acquired from the Houston/ KD salary dump trade for at least the next two to three years. And we get a total of two lotto picks and two protected mid to late 1sts for trading both of our stars!!!

That's Smith Jr/ Sheppard/ Whitmore/ Vassell/Johnson/ Barnes/2 lottery picks and two mid to late 1sts in total value??? And from taking back Barnes's $ 19 million on top of Vassell and Sochan, we'd also only save around 7 million in cap space next season! This is just a horrific value return for KD and Book!

1- We shouldn't be taking back any multi-year contracts! Or eating money just to help another team.
2- KD in that Houston trade should at minimum pull another 1st (our 27' 1st)!!!! Especially when Sheppard is still completely unproven and carries no positive trade value.
3- We shouldn't be accepting any freaking protected picks back for our star players in trades! Getting only 2 lotto 1sts and two mid to late 1sts back in total is disgustingly unacceptable!!!
4- There's absolutely no logical reason for Charlotte to even be involved in this Booker/ Spurs trade! The ZSpurs have plenty of picks, and if anything, that ATL 25' 1st should be coming to us instead of some craptastic future protected 1sts. Only getting 1 lottery 1st and two future protected mediocre 1sts is beyond description bad! especially when Booker's consensus market value is listed at 2-3 very good young players, fillers, and 3-4 premium 1sts.

I'm sorry, but Eric Pincus should not be doing any more trades if they're this horrifically bad!

My point was more that if you trade Booker now - you really can kickstart the rebuild. I don 't think Durant brings enough back to allow you to be competitive with Booker so if you try it for a year or two, Bookers value will only decline

So trade them both now, ride out the next two years with Beal. Spinning their wheels with Booker is just, to me, a waste of time

[BobbieL]

So I guess its just me who wants to keep KD and Book. Trade Beal for what I saw someone here said for anything that has a pulse. I like Beal but this man makes A.D and Zion look like iron men. I'm keeping Oso, Gillepsie, Dunn, Martin and Richards. Btw i'm shocked Bud still hasn't run plays for Richards who showed he has a mid range game. He could easily run a PnR or a PnP with him and Kd or Book, Bud is just dumb at times but back to next season, surround Kd and Book with 2 way role players in every position

I want to keep them too.

With the current CBA, the lack of draft picks, not being able to make more than 1:1 trades because of apron levels - what is the peak do you see for a team with Booker and Durant?

Even if they stretch Beal - which I think is a quantum huge mistake -- I don't see a team better than the 6th seed as I just don't know how they get better. And that is why I am in the blow it up - if the 6th is the best you have, thats not good enough. Maybe for Ishbia its enough to win games, fill the arena and not be half empty watching a terrible team. But he said it was to win a championship and thats not happening

[Slim Charless]

So I guess its just me who wants to keep KD and Book. Trade Beal for what I saw someone here said for anything that has a pulse. I like Beal but this man makes A.D and Zion look like iron men. I'm keeping Oso, Gillepsie, Dunn, Martin and Richards. Btw i'm shocked Bud still hasn't run plays for Richards who showed he has a mid range game. He could easily run a PnR or a PnP with him and Kd or Book, Bud is just dumb at times but back to next season, surround Kd and Book with 2 way role players in every position

I want to keep them too.

With the current CBA, the lack of draft picks, not being able to make more than 1:1 trades because of apron levels - what is the peak do you see for a team with Booker and Durant?

Even if they stretch Beal - which I think is a quantum huge mistake -- I don't see a team better than the 6th seed as I just don't know how they get better. And that is why I am in the blow it up - if the 6th is the best you have, thats not good enough. Maybe for Ishbia its enough to win games, fill the arena and not be half empty watching a terrible team. But he said it was to win a championship and thats not happening

If you trade them, you have to actually get things of value though. That was GoK's and mine points above linked to that trade you posted. Do not juszt give them away for the sake of rebuilding and cause you want a fresh start. You need to try and negotiate an actual good deal and get good things back from whoever you trade Booker to.

That Bleacher Report trade is basically taking whatever the 1st thing someone offers you.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Eric Pincus trade Idea -- I am all for it - -this is what needs to happen. Maybe not this exact trade but this is the type of return the Suns could get for Booker and Durant. It could really kickstart the rebuild process

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Spurs get:

Devin Booker (from Suns)
Josh Okogie (from Hornets)
Jae'Sean Tate (from Rockets)
Jeff Green (from Rockets)
$5 million trade exception (Malaki Branham)
Rockets get

Kevin Durant (from Suns)
Suns get:

Devin Vassell (from Spurs)
Harrison Barnes (from Spurs)
Keldon Johnson (from Spurs)
Jabari Smith Jr. (from Rockets)
Reed Sheppard (from Rockets)
Cam Whitmore (from Rockets)
Aaron Holiday (from Rockets)
2025 Suns own first-rounder (from Rockets)
2025 unprotected first-rounder (from Spurs)
2027 protected Miami Heat first-rounder (from Hornets)- **1-14 lottery protected.
2029 protected first-rounder (from Spurs)
$12.7 million trade exception (Devin Booker)

Hornets get:

Malaki Branham (from Spurs)
Jock Landale (from Rockets)
2025 Atlanta Hawks first-rounder (from Spurs)

I actually find this value rather poor when breaking it down between the two players man! I mean the picks are underwhelming between moving both KD and Booker. And the players although solid for KD are thee only really decent part of this trade, honestly. The overall trade is deceptive in that as it's combining two trades into one, the value for each player traded is blended to hide true value return of each, but when separated, you get:

KD to Houston-
KD for Smith Jr/ Sheppard/ Whitmore/ Tate/ Holiday/ PHX 25 1st ( 12th pick).
Smith Jr is solid, Whitmore is solid, but Sheppard is an undersized 6'2 guard who hasn't really shown much yet (averaging 3 points/ 1 rebound/ 1 assist on 33% FG and 27% 3PT, so he's basically a 6'2 point guard version of Shamet; I'd rather pass! He's meh value currently as a $10 million poor-value salary filler at best. You also can't include Tate because he's an unrestricted free agent, and Holiday, while somewhat decent, is still nothing more than a bench-scoring guard option that you can find a "dime a dozen" in free agency on a vet minimum. So basically, the only real value you're getting here is:

- a salary dump of around $ 27 million.
- two young prospects.
- Salary fillers.
- 1 late lotto pick.
Again, Not terrible if we're prioritizing salary dumping KDs' money. But the singular 1st makes this trade a bit light in value because we'd obviously be rebuilding. And the cap savings mean little to a tanking team short on picks. I say this because KD's value is currently around 2 good young talents with upside, vet Salary fillers, and 2 solid 1sts. We're short by at least another 1st. This gap would be bridged if Sheppard had proved anything yet aside from being drafted high and riding the razor's edge of being considered a bust soon. But obviously, if we're trading BOTH Booker and KD, we're rebuilding and need young players AND picks (plural) far more than cap space.


Booker to San Antonio (This one, the value is so bad that it's low-key insulting)!
Booker for Vassell/ Barnes/ Johnson/ SAS 25' 1st (8th pick)/ MIA 27' 1st (lottery protected)/ SAS 29' protected 1st/ 12 million TPE. So, basically, it breaks down like this:

- Vassell is a solid but not great young player on a big 4-year multiyear salary. We're eating Vassells' 27 million until 2029.
- Johnson is a solid rotation level undersized (6'5) SF/PF with a limited skillset making 17 million over the next two seasons. Again, we're eating another multi-year salary for the privilege of helping the Spurs maintain cap flexibility! Altogether, we're taking back 44 million and only saving 10 million in the trade.
- Barnes's 19 million expiring. Why are we eating Barnes expiring just to help San Antonio create more cap space here?? Bookers' salary is only 53 million next season, but altogether with taking back these 3 contracts, we're taking back 64 million for San Antonio! Why are we taking back 11 million more than is necessary to help them? where's our compensation for this?
- SAS 25' 1st (8th pick).
- MIA 27' 1st (Lottery protected). So basically a 16 or later 1st that might not even convey if Miami struggles in 27.
- SAS 29' 1st (Protected). So basically, with having all of Wemby/ Fox/ Booker/ Castle well into their primes on top of the cap flexibility we've helped them get to add quality depth pieces. we're most likely looking at a mid to late 1st at best (likely in the 20s!!

So overall, we're giving up the best talent/value in the trade and eating two multiyear salaries that the Spurs wanna dump. We're also eating an unnecessary additional 20 million to help them create more cap flexibility, We're not getting Castle or any premium young star talent back while giving up our franchise player. And to add insult to injury, we're really only getting one lottery pick back and two protected mid to late 1sts at best! Taking back two undersized, overpaid wings is completely unnecessary, and then taking back Barnes' additional 19 million on top of their $44 million (multi-year deals is egregious). And then getting only 1 premium first and two mediocre mid to late firsts is completely inexcusable and insultingly bad value.

Also, why are the Hornets even in this trade when they don't need to be at all? And why are they getting compensated for giving up a mid to late 1st in the trade but getting the ATL first, which is a higher value 1st than what they're giving up? Both the Spurs and the Hornets are stealing significant value here while we give up our franchise player in Booker and eat two big salary deals, plus take back a 3rd from a treeam that already has significant cap space, further limiting our cap space acquired from the Houston/ KD salary dump trade for at least the next two to three years. And we get a total of two lotto picks and two protected mid to late 1sts for trading both of our stars!!!

That's Smith Jr/ Sheppard/ Whitmore/ Vassell/Johnson/ Barnes/2 lottery picks and two mid to late 1sts in total value??? And from taking back Barnes's $ 19 million on top of Vassell and Sochan, we'd also only save around 7 million in cap space next season! This is just a horrific value return for KD and Book!

1- We shouldn't be taking back any multi-year contracts! Or eating money just to help another team.
2- KD in that Houston trade should at minimum pull another 1st (our 27' 1st)!!!! Especially when Sheppard is still completely unproven and carries no positive trade value.
3- We shouldn't be accepting any freaking protected picks back for our star players in trades! Getting only 2 lotto 1sts and two mid to late 1sts back in total is disgustingly unacceptable!!!
4- There's absolutely no logical reason for Charlotte to even be involved in this Booker/ Spurs trade! The ZSpurs have plenty of picks, and if anything, that ATL 25' 1st should be coming to us instead of some craptastic future protected 1sts. Only getting 1 lottery 1st and two future protected mediocre 1sts is beyond description bad! especially when Booker's consensus market value is listed at 2-3 very good young players, fillers, and 3-4 premium 1sts.

I'm sorry, but Eric Pincus should not be doing any more trades if they're this horrifically bad!

My point was more that if you trade Booker now - you really can kickstart the rebuild. I don 't think Durant brings enough back to allow you to be competitive with Booker so if you try it for a year or two, Bookers value will only decline

So trade them both now, ride out the next two years with Beal. Spinning their wheels with Booker is just, to me, a waste of time

Nah man! I get that. And I'm absolutely fully on board with the whole rebuild premise, much for the reasons you've mentioned. My point here is that this value is objectively terrible for us, and it doesn't really make much sense for us as we're taking a huge value loss in these deals. The KD/ Houston trade not terrible, but it is still not there in terms of KD's baseline market value for the reasons I've mentioned. And the Booker portion is just horrifically bad value and unacceptable for the reasons I've mentioned. Overall, Eric Pincus should not be doing trades if he really believes this is acceptable or even reasonable value at all.

But yes! We absolutely need to trade both KD and Booker and jumpstart our rebuild! We just can't take back a "pennies on the dollar" or nickels on the dollar" return for the privilege of significantly helping out other teams at the expense of our future.

[BobbieL]

I actually find this value rather poor when breaking it down between the two players man! I mean the picks are underwhelming between moving both KD and Booker. And the players although solid for KD are thee only really decent part of this trade, honestly. The overall trade is deceptive in that as it's combining two trades into one, the value for each player traded is blended to hide true value return of each, but when separated, you get:

KD to Houston-
KD for Smith Jr/ Sheppard/ Whitmore/ Tate/ Holiday/ PHX 25 1st ( 12th pick).
Smith Jr is solid, Whitmore is solid, but Sheppard is an undersized 6'2 guard who hasn't really shown much yet (averaging 3 points/ 1 rebound/ 1 assist on 33% FG and 27% 3PT, so he's basically a 6'2 point guard version of Shamet; I'd rather pass! He's meh value currently as a $10 million poor-value salary filler at best. You also can't include Tate because he's an unrestricted free agent, and Holiday, while somewhat decent, is still nothing more than a bench-scoring guard option that you can find a "dime a dozen" in free agency on a vet minimum. So basically, the only real value you're getting here is:

- a salary dump of around $ 27 million.
- two young prospects.
- Salary fillers.
- 1 late lotto pick.
Again, Not terrible if we're prioritizing salary dumping KDs' money. But the singular 1st makes this trade a bit light in value because we'd obviously be rebuilding. And the cap savings mean little to a tanking team short on picks. I say this because KD's value is currently around 2 good young talents with upside, vet Salary fillers, and 2 solid 1sts. We're short by at least another 1st. This gap would be bridged if Sheppard had proved anything yet aside from being drafted high and riding the razor's edge of being considered a bust soon. But obviously, if we're trading BOTH Booker and KD, we're rebuilding and need young players AND picks (plural) far more than cap space.


Booker to San Antonio (This one, the value is so bad that it's low-key insulting)!
Booker for Vassell/ Barnes/ Johnson/ SAS 25' 1st (8th pick)/ MIA 27' 1st (lottery protected)/ SAS 29' protected 1st/ 12 million TPE. So, basically, it breaks down like this:

- Vassell is a solid but not great young player on a big 4-year multiyear salary. We're eating Vassells' 27 million until 2029.
- Johnson is a solid rotation level undersized (6'5) SF/PF with a limited skillset making 17 million over the next two seasons. Again, we're eating another multi-year salary for the privilege of helping the Spurs maintain cap flexibility! Altogether, we're taking back 44 million and only saving 10 million in the trade.
- Barnes's 19 million expiring. Why are we eating Barnes expiring just to help San Antonio create more cap space here?? Bookers' salary is only 53 million next season, but altogether with taking back these 3 contracts, we're taking back 64 million for San Antonio! Why are we taking back 11 million more than is necessary to help them? where's our compensation for this?
- SAS 25' 1st (8th pick).
- MIA 27' 1st (Lottery protected). So basically a 16 or later 1st that might not even convey if Miami struggles in 27.
- SAS 29' 1st (Protected). So basically, with having all of Wemby/ Fox/ Booker/ Castle well into their primes on top of the cap flexibility we've helped them get to add quality depth pieces. we're most likely looking at a mid to late 1st at best (likely in the 20s!!

So overall, we're giving up the best talent/value in the trade and eating two multiyear salaries that the Spurs wanna dump. We're also eating an unnecessary additional 20 million to help them create more cap flexibility, We're not getting Castle or any premium young star talent back while giving up our franchise player. And to add insult to injury, we're really only getting one lottery pick back and two protected mid to late 1sts at best! Taking back two undersized, overpaid wings is completely unnecessary, and then taking back Barnes' additional 19 million on top of their $44 million (multi-year deals is egregious). And then getting only 1 premium first and two mediocre mid to late firsts is completely inexcusable and insultingly bad value.

Also, why are the Hornets even in this trade when they don't need to be at all? And why are they getting compensated for giving up a mid to late 1st in the trade but getting the ATL first, which is a higher value 1st than what they're giving up? Both the Spurs and the Hornets are stealing significant value here while we give up our franchise player in Booker and eat two big salary deals, plus take back a 3rd from a treeam that already has significant cap space, further limiting our cap space acquired from the Houston/ KD salary dump trade for at least the next two to three years. And we get a total of two lotto picks and two protected mid to late 1sts for trading both of our stars!!!

That's Smith Jr/ Sheppard/ Whitmore/ Vassell/Johnson/ Barnes/2 lottery picks and two mid to late 1sts in total value??? And from taking back Barnes's $ 19 million on top of Vassell and Sochan, we'd also only save around 7 million in cap space next season! This is just a horrific value return for KD and Book!

1- We shouldn't be taking back any multi-year contracts! Or eating money just to help another team.
2- KD in that Houston trade should at minimum pull another 1st (our 27' 1st)!!!! Especially when Sheppard is still completely unproven and carries no positive trade value.
3- We shouldn't be accepting any freaking protected picks back for our star players in trades! Getting only 2 lotto 1sts and two mid to late 1sts back in total is disgustingly unacceptable!!!
4- There's absolutely no logical reason for Charlotte to even be involved in this Booker/ Spurs trade! The ZSpurs have plenty of picks, and if anything, that ATL 25' 1st should be coming to us instead of some craptastic future protected 1sts. Only getting 1 lottery 1st and two future protected mediocre 1sts is beyond description bad! especially when Booker's consensus market value is listed at 2-3 very good young players, fillers, and 3-4 premium 1sts.

I'm sorry, but Eric Pincus should not be doing any more trades if they're this horrifically bad!

My point was more that if you trade Booker now - you really can kickstart the rebuild. I don 't think Durant brings enough back to allow you to be competitive with Booker so if you try it for a year or two, Bookers value will only decline

So trade them both now, ride out the next two years with Beal. Spinning their wheels with Booker is just, to me, a waste of time

Nah man! I get that. And I'm absolutely fully on board with the whole rebuild premise, much for the reasons you've mentioned. My point here is that this value is objectively terrible for us, and it doesn't really make much sense for us as we're taking a huge value loss in these deals. The KD/ Houston trade not terrible, but it is still not there in terms of KD's baseline market value for the reasons I've mentioned. And the Booker portion is just horrifically bad value and unacceptable for the reasons I've mentioned. Overall, Eric Pincus should not be doing trades if he really believes this is acceptable or even reasonable value at all.

But yes! We absolutely need to trade both KD and Booker and jumpstart our rebuild! We just can't take back a "pennies on the dollar" or nickels on the dollar" return for the privilege of significantly helping out other teams at the expense of our future.

I understand the value of the trade was not as good as it should be - it was light on draft picks for one thing. But at some point there does need to be weighed the value of keeping Booker v the value of trading him. And the value will just continue to do go down

So yes, a better trade needs to happen but the premise is still the same to me -- keeping Booker with the constraints of the apron level will make it very hard to improve the team - combined with lack of draft picks