PG: Passing The Bucks

[Gravy]

Also forgot to mention OG is having a career year too

I think everyone criticizing Thibs knows that and appreciates that, but with every critique, I wouldn’t expect everyone to preface with a long list of his accomplishments as a reminder that we’re grateful for what he’s done. He obviously doesn’t literally suck, that’s just frustrated fans lashing out like every fanbase does.. with coaches and players.

He’s not perfect tho and clearly isn’t the guy to bring us a title. I wish he was because I respect him (despite the jokes), but he’s just not.

I don’t mind getting an upgrade but expecting another coach to turn this poorly constructed roster into a championship contender is unrealistic imo. There’s no scheme that can fix KAT’s defense at the 5. Josh hart is scared to shoot 3s and is the reason why he’s been bouncing around from team to team. Brunson will never be a positive defender because of how small he is. Mikal has stopped playing elite defense for years. I mean these are issues that have been going on with these players for years before Thibs even coached them. If other coaches couldn’t fix these problems, then why are we blaming Thibs? I get he could be more creative with the offense but you’re only talking about getting a couple more wins at most. Thats just how I view this. I could be wrong but I just feel like until you fix the roster it doesn’t really matter who’s the coach imo.

KAT is a very hard player to build a championship team around because of his poor defense at the 5. Jokic also has bad defense but he's a top ten hall of fame player and had an all time great run in the playoffs. Since then even we are beating the Nuggets easily.

This channel broke down how even though KAT scored 62 pts Minny got beat by the Hornets mostly because of KAT and he had to be benched. Cant blame Thibs for this

Watch on YouTube

[thebuzzardman]

Looking like we have the best 2 wings to ever play hoops on our roster and we spend our time arguing over a 70 year old bald white man

Read on Twitter

The old guy never playing him is part of the problem

[spree8]

Also forgot to mention OG is having a career year too

I think everyone criticizing Thibs knows that and appreciates that, but with every critique, I wouldn’t expect everyone to preface with a long list of his accomplishments as a reminder that we’re grateful for what he’s done. He obviously doesn’t literally suck, that’s just frustrated fans lashing out like every fanbase does.. with coaches and players.

He’s not perfect tho and clearly isn’t the guy to bring us a title. I wish he was because I respect him (despite the jokes), but he’s just not.

I don’t mind getting an upgrade but expecting another coach to turn this poorly constructed roster into a championship contender is unrealistic imo. There’s no scheme that can fix KAT’s defense at the 5. Josh hart is scared to shoot 3s and is the reason why he’s been bouncing around from team to team. Brunson will never be a positive defender because of how small he is. Mikal has stopped playing elite defense for years. I mean these are issues that have been going on with these players for years before Thibs even coached them. If other coaches couldn’t fix these problems, then why are we blaming Thibs? I get he could be more creative with the offense but you’re only talking about getting a couple more wins at most. Thats just how I view this. I could be wrong but I just feel like until you fix the roster it doesn’t really matter who’s the coach imo.

I understand where you’re coming from. It seems everyone knows Jalen n KAT aren’t good with team defense. But Thibs certainly can help them.

A switch heavy defense like Houston’s (who also uses zone with certain lineups), has been the #1 suggestion by posters here. We wouldn’t be giving up so many open 3’s if we did. I think you’ve pointed to times where KAT was beat by Tatum, but I know I’ve pointed to the fact that the root issue was that he was picking him up out of position and a step behind (either in drop or running thru screens).

If we had a switch heavy defense, these guys would be in better position from the jump, and in the limited times they do properly switch (without miscommunication which happens often), guys like KAT and Jalen do well. I don’t think Jalen’s size has anything to do with poor man defense… his issues are more team defense/awareness, etc. He’s excellent at drawing charges tho.

Mikal is also guarding at the POA which isn’t ideal especially with Deuce on the team. He still is a good defender.

You’d agree that Thibs literally hasn’t changed or tried anything different on either side of the ball this year right? I think that alone is a fireable offense, not even counting everything else. I also don’t think there’s a way to definitively say how many more games they’d win if Thibs experimented with the team to find the best version of it. We’re limited by the bench sure, but the best version of this team could surprise people especially in the PO.

[thebuzzardman]

Thibs sucks is just shorthand for "he needs to go" because the guy is a good coach, but an OBVIOUSLY flawed one with certain glaring bad habits, with a clear floor, who isn't built for competing in the playoffs, unless he's gifted with a top 1, top 2 roster in the league.

He's better than a coach who just rolls the ball onto the floor, but he's hardly the best the Knicks can do.

Welp, they can fix the roster (unlikely) or fire the coach (much easier)

Or, Knicks can be a slightly more sustainable version of that Carmelo team that got into the playoffs once but everyone knew it wasn't going anywhere.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Thibs sucks is just shorthand for "he needs to go" because the guy is a good coach, but an OBVIOUSLY flawed one with certain glaring bad habits, with a clear floor, who isn't built for competing in the playoffs, unless he's gifted with a top 1, top 2 roster in the league.

He's better than a coach who just rolls the ball onto the floor, but he's hardly the best the Knicks can do.

Welp, they can fix the roster (unlikely) or fire the coach (much easier)

Or, Knicks can be a slightly more sustainable version of that Carmelo team that got into the playoffs once but everyone knew it wasn't going anywhere.

Thibs is a good coach who did a great job to get this team to where its at. The roster is good, but not contender status yet and certainly has some flaws. Still they built a perennial 50 win type team with players mostly on really good contracts and in their prime with 2 legit stars surrounded by good role players. We have room to improve for sure.

Reality is its just very tough to take that next leap and can take some time to get there and to pull off the right moves.

In terms of Thibs, he may not be the coach that can get us to the next level. His flaws as a coach are pretty well known by now. But we will see how things play out the rest of the season. For all we know this team could go on a run, or maybe lose in the first round. Playoffs are ultimately where things will be judged and that is a total unknown. 2nd round seems about the expectations but you never know.

[nedleeds]

Or, Knicks can be a slightly more sustainable version of that Carmelo team that got into the playoffs once but everyone knew it wasn't going anywhere.

There are people who think this is a finals level roster. They jump around with all kinds of inane qualifiers like, if we never get injured again, oh I just meant 3 of our starting 5, oh if KAT can guard a parking cone.

[3toheadmelo]

I think everyone criticizing Thibs knows that and appreciates that, but with every critique, I wouldn’t expect everyone to preface with a long list of his accomplishments as a reminder that we’re grateful for what he’s done. He obviously doesn’t literally suck, that’s just frustrated fans lashing out like every fanbase does.. with coaches and players.

He’s not perfect tho and clearly isn’t the guy to bring us a title. I wish he was because I respect him (despite the jokes), but he’s just not.

I don’t mind getting an upgrade but expecting another coach to turn this poorly constructed roster into a championship contender is unrealistic imo. There’s no scheme that can fix KAT’s defense at the 5. Josh hart is scared to shoot 3s and is the reason why he’s been bouncing around from team to team. Brunson will never be a positive defender because of how small he is. Mikal has stopped playing elite defense for years. I mean these are issues that have been going on with these players for years before Thibs even coached them. If other coaches couldn’t fix these problems, then why are we blaming Thibs? I get he could be more creative with the offense but you’re only talking about getting a couple more wins at most. Thats just how I view this. I could be wrong but I just feel like until you fix the roster it doesn’t really matter who’s the coach imo.

KAT is a very hard player to build a championship team around because of his poor defense at the 5. Jokic also has bad defense but he's a top ten hall of fame player and had an all time great run in the playoffs. Since then even we are beating the Nuggets easily.

This channel broke down how even though KAT scored 62 pts Minny got beat by the Hornets mostly because of KAT and he had to be benched. Cant blame Thibs for this

Watch on YouTube

Yep. It’s extremely hard to build a championship team around KAT. Eventually we’re going to have to trade him.

[spree8]

I think everyone criticizing Thibs knows that and appreciates that, but with every critique, I wouldn’t expect everyone to preface with a long list of his accomplishments as a reminder that we’re grateful for what he’s done. He obviously doesn’t literally suck, that’s just frustrated fans lashing out like every fanbase does.. with coaches and players.

He’s not perfect tho and clearly isn’t the guy to bring us a title. I wish he was because I respect him (despite the jokes), but he’s just not.

I don’t mind getting an upgrade but expecting another coach to turn this poorly constructed roster into a championship contender is unrealistic imo. There’s no scheme that can fix KAT’s defense at the 5. Josh hart is scared to shoot 3s and is the reason why he’s been bouncing around from team to team. Brunson will never be a positive defender because of how small he is. Mikal has stopped playing elite defense for years. I mean these are issues that have been going on with these players for years before Thibs even coached them. If other coaches couldn’t fix these problems, then why are we blaming Thibs? I get he could be more creative with the offense but you’re only talking about getting a couple more wins at most. Thats just how I view this. I could be wrong but I just feel like until you fix the roster it doesn’t really matter who’s the coach imo.

KAT is a very hard player to build a championship team around because of his poor defense at the 5. Jokic also has bad defense but he's a top ten hall of fame player and had an all time great run in the playoffs. Since then even we are beating the Nuggets easily.

This channel broke down how even though KAT scored 62 pts Minny got beat by the Hornets mostly because of KAT and he had to be benched. Cant blame Thibs for this

Watch on YouTube

Root cause of the issues is the scheme. You say you can’t win with him at the 5, but he was playing the 4 in this video. The very play coach says he was benched for, Gobert was in the game. The problem was miscommunication on what to do. KAT went for the switch but Anderson went over the screen and stuck with his man so KAT stayed with his instead of helping on Miles…

Gobert was right there the whole time and didn’t help slow the ball down either. He was probably in better position to do that here (especially with his man shooting only 32% from 3 but KAT’s was shooting 43% from 3) but he moved out the way like a matador…









The game isn’t black n white. There’s so many ways to look at it and that’s why there’s so much debate because nothing is ever just cut n dry.

But again, I’m not saying KAT is a great defender by any means, don’t get me wrong, but you can win with him, and you just have to put him in position to succeed knowing his weaknesses. It’s challenging for sure, but that’s why we need a coach who’s willing to try to do what’s necessary.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Also forgot to mention OG is having a career year too

I think everyone criticizing Thibs knows that and appreciates that, but with every critique, I wouldn’t expect everyone to preface with a long list of his accomplishments as a reminder that we’re grateful for what he’s done. He obviously doesn’t literally suck, that’s just frustrated fans lashing out like every fanbase does.. with coaches and players.

He’s not perfect tho and clearly isn’t the guy to bring us a title. I wish he was because I respect him (despite the jokes), but he’s just not.

I don’t mind getting an upgrade but expecting another coach to turn this poorly constructed roster into a championship contender is unrealistic imo. There’s no scheme that can fix KAT’s defense at the 5. Josh hart is scared to shoot 3s and is the reason why he’s been bouncing around from team to team. Brunson will never be a positive defender because of how small he is. Mikal has stopped playing elite defense for years. I mean these are issues that have been going on with these players for years before Thibs even coached them. If other coaches couldn’t fix these problems, then why are we blaming Thibs? I get he could be more creative with the offense but you’re only talking about getting a couple more wins at most. Thats just how I view this. I could be wrong but I just feel like until you fix the roster it doesn’t really matter who’s the coach imo.

No one thinks Thibs has to turn this roster into a title contender. Just get the most you can from everyone without overplaying your starters. Utilize the bench like every good team in the league is doing. Make common sense decisions. He doesn't do all of that.

Brunson was a bench player in the league for 4 seasons when we got him. Coaches couldn't fix him?
Mikals defense is fine. Coaches can't fix him? He is a very good player on both ends of the ball.
Start Mitch when he's ready and move KAT to the 4. Move Hart to the 6 man role. Coaches can't fix that?

Kolek/Deuce/Hart/Pac/Huk are all we have left under contract next year for the bench in that scenario.

Go out and get whatever you can with the change we have left over under the apron.

Brunson/Kolek
Mikal/Deuce
OG/Hart
KAT
Mitch/Huk

We still have Pac/McC to develop and whatever we get with the spare change Which won't be much.

Then we could emphasize protecting the perimeter more effectively. Get more creative with the offense. See what that team can do. If Thibs is the HC to do all of that, then we don't need to worry about a new HC. We have talent. Plenty of it. More talent than we have had in a long time. More talent than most teams. We need depth that plays. We need a HC who can make it run on a high level. One who adjusts and adapts accordingly to what is on his roster. Is Thibs that guy? My guess is we are all gonna find out because he isn't going anywhere before next season. He hasn't shown he is that guy on different levels in my opinion.

Thibs is somewhere in between what his law firm says and what his firing squad says. Not as good as some think and not as bad as others think. That's always the way of things. It's an emotional investment on some levels being a fan. Sometimes those emotions get the better of people in both directions. Homer vs hater.

If Thibs can win against the top teams, like worse teams than us have done, then we wouldn't really be having this discussion. People are frustrated watching the Hawks beat up on top teams and we can't. For whatever reasons. It can't be all about the talent.

[nedleeds]

Put a $100 bill in a **** jar every time you get over a screen.

[Guano]

Looking like we have the best 2 wings to ever play hoops on our roster and we spend our time arguing over a 70 year old bald white man

Read on Twitter

The old guy never playing him is part of the problem

The only valid argument worth making to fire him.

Sitting on a winning lotto ticket refusing to cash it.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Or, Knicks can be a slightly more sustainable version of that Carmelo team that got into the playoffs once but everyone knew it wasn't going anywhere.

There are people who think this is a finals level roster. They jump around with all kinds of inane qualifiers like, if we never get injured again, oh I just meant 3 of our starting 5, oh if KAT can guard a parking cone.

I had Cinderella/anything is possible dreams back in late December and January. The starters were clicking and the bench was about to come back healthy minus Mitch. I thought Mitch would be back much sooner than he was. Those dreams died by the ASB.

This is a championship level core if you find the missing pieces though. It's not far off. Whether we get there or not is the journey we are on. Is this the right HC or a GSW/CLE type situation? Can the FO get us over the hump? Stay tuned.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Looking like we have the best 2 wings to ever play hoops on our roster and we spend our time arguing over a 70 year old bald white man

Read on Twitter

The old guy never playing him is part of the problem

The only valid argument worth making to fire him.

Sitting on a winning lotto ticket refusing to cash it.

He was 4-12 and 2-9 from 3 if that's the last W Knicks game. Dude is a project.

My issue is with Huk before injury and Kolek. Both looked well enough early on to give some kind of minutes off the bench when we desperately needed them. Thibs shortens the rotations and everyone's knees and toes fell off before the ASB. The fact that it took injuries to every PG on the team to play Kolek will never sit right with me.

[thebuzzardman]

Thibs sucks is just shorthand for "he needs to go" because the guy is a good coach, but an OBVIOUSLY flawed one with certain glaring bad habits, with a clear floor, who isn't built for competing in the playoffs, unless he's gifted with a top 1, top 2 roster in the league.

He's better than a coach who just rolls the ball onto the floor, but he's hardly the best the Knicks can do.

Welp, they can fix the roster (unlikely) or fire the coach (much easier)

Or, Knicks can be a slightly more sustainable version of that Carmelo team that got into the playoffs once but everyone knew it wasn't going anywhere.

Thibs is a good coach who did a great job to get this team to where its at. The roster is good, but not contender status yet and certainly has some flaws. Still they built a perennial 50 win type team with players mostly on really good contracts and in their prime with 2 legit stars surrounded by good role players. We have room to improve for sure.

Reality is its just very tough to take that next leap and can take some time to get there and to pull off the right moves.

In terms of Thibs, he may not be the coach that can get us to the next level. His flaws as a coach are pretty well known by now. But we will see how things play out the rest of the season. For all we know this team could go on a run, or maybe lose in the first round. Playoffs are ultimately where things will be judged and that is a total unknown. 2nd round seems about the expectations but you never know.

He's Buck Showalter. A maniacal try hard who wills an organization to do better by the sheer force of a somewhat psychotic anti social personality, but eventually wears out his welcome.

Smart organizations realize this kind of individual has a certain shelf life and then the replace them with a more talented, innovative flexible individual or one more suited for the personnel and/or personalities on the team.

See. I said he's good. He is. He shouldn't be any teams final answer.

[thebuzzardman]

Looking like we have the best 2 wings to ever play hoops on our roster and we spend our time arguing over a 70 year old bald white man

Read on Twitter

The old guy never playing him is part of the problem

The only valid argument worth making to fire him.

Sitting on a winning lotto ticket refusing to cash it.

I'm still upset over his failure to develop Trevor Keels.

[GettinitDone]

Put a $100 bill in a **** jar every time you get over a screen.

That's like equivalent to a penny to most people lol

[nedleeds]

Or, Knicks can be a slightly more sustainable version of that Carmelo team that got into the playoffs once but everyone knew it wasn't going anywhere.

There are people who think this is a finals level roster. They jump around with all kinds of inane qualifiers like, if we never get injured again, oh I just meant 3 of our starting 5, oh if KAT can guard a parking cone.

I had Cinderella/anything is possible dreams back in late December and January. The starters were clicking and the bench was about to come back healthy minus Mitch. I thought Mitch would be back much sooner than he was. Those dreams died by the ASB.

This is a championship level core if you find the missing pieces though. It's not far off. Whether we get there or not is the journey we are on. Is this the right HC or a GSW/CLE type situation? Can the FO get us over the hump? Stay tuned.

I wish I was young enough to share your positivity. But the missing piece is like adding a good coach, and like Devin Booker for expiring salary. We have no way to improve the team in any meaningful way other than our 2026 1st. The one thing we couldn't trade for poor mans Derrick White, the one thing Brooklyn left us after pulling out and splashing on our back. Thibs would trade it if he could and we aren't bad enough to get that pick into the top 5. We could be but they would rather be the Bobcats than Oklahoma City.

Unless the CAA money and player laundering operation is removed then this is what the Knicks are for 3 to 4 years.

[Jalen Bluntson]

There are people who think this is a finals level roster. They jump around with all kinds of inane qualifiers like, if we never get injured again, oh I just meant 3 of our starting 5, oh if KAT can guard a parking cone.

I had Cinderella/anything is possible dreams back in late December and January. The starters were clicking and the bench was about to come back healthy minus Mitch. I thought Mitch would be back much sooner than he was. Those dreams died by the ASB.

This is a championship level core if you find the missing pieces though. It's not far off. Whether we get there or not is the journey we are on. Is this the right HC or a GSW/CLE type situation? Can the FO get us over the hump? Stay tuned.

I wish I was young enough to share your positivity. But the missing piece is like adding a good coach, and like Devin Booker for expiring salary. We have no way to improve the team in any meaningful way other than our 2026 1st. The one thing we couldn't trade for poor mans Derrick White, the one thing Brooklyn left us after pulling out and splashing on our back. Thibs would trade it if he could and we aren't bad enough to get that pick into the top 5. We could be but they would rather be the Bobcats than Oklahoma City.

Unless the CAA money and player laundering operation is removed then this is what the Knicks are for 3 to 4 years.

Idk man. I won't give up now after the previous 20 years of garbage but. I don't have a rosy of an outlook as it seems. Coaching change and a star breaking free in a year or two are not impossible things to happen. We have good players on reasonable salaries and if a star wants to come here it could be possible. If Tom fails he will be fired eventually. I know you're older and I feel the sense of urgency for you but, even if this team clicks and we do add the right pieces it will still be a year or two away. This year looks like a wrap. How much time you have?

[nedleeds]

I had Cinderella/anything is possible dreams back in late December and January. The starters were clicking and the bench was about to come back healthy minus Mitch. I thought Mitch would be back much sooner than he was. Those dreams died by the ASB.

This is a championship level core if you find the missing pieces though. It's not far off. Whether we get there or not is the journey we are on. Is this the right HC or a GSW/CLE type situation? Can the FO get us over the hump? Stay tuned.

I wish I was young enough to share your positivity. But the missing piece is like adding a good coach, and like Devin Booker for expiring salary. We have no way to improve the team in any meaningful way other than our 2026 1st. The one thing we couldn't trade for poor mans Derrick White, the one thing Brooklyn left us after pulling out and splashing on our back. Thibs would trade it if he could and we aren't bad enough to get that pick into the top 5. We could be but they would rather be the Bobcats than Oklahoma City.

Unless the CAA money and player laundering operation is removed then this is what the Knicks are for 3 to 4 years.

Idk man. I won't give up now after the previous 20 years of garbage but. I don't have a rosy of an outlook as it seems. Coaching change and a star breaking free in a year or two are not impossible things to happen. We have good players on reasonable salaries and if a star wants to come here it could be possible. If Tom fails he will be fired eventually. I know you're older and I feel the sense of urgency for you but, even if this team clicks and we do add the right pieces it will still be a year or two away. This year looks like a wrap. How much time you have?

I still watch on league pass for now, but the commercials they added the last few years make me want to not even bother. I enjoy watching NBA basketball, be nice to actually have a real chance at either a title or Cooper Flagg / Wemby / Luka we have neither. Worst place to be is just a turd in the swimming pool, which we are now.

I bet they just repeat the same mistake as with Melo. They'll waste a top 10 player like Brunsons prime and trade value for no team success. His contract is the one big asset we have, OGs deal is also looking fine now as long as he's not in a walking boot.

The magnitude of how awful the bridges trade was will go down in NBA history.

KAT is a neutral value deal, Bridges will expire next year, don't be surprised if he switches to CAA from Endorsco and extends for a max cap killer.

[Clyde_Style]

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to see what Thibs can do with Mitch or a full time center next to KAT and somewhat of a bench, so the roster could be closer to what he needs.

And yes, they can do that even without trading a major piece.

The rest of this season/playoffs may ride on whether Mitch gets rolling and if he can provide 25 ass-kicking minutes when it matters most.

If he does, it is a different team with a higher ceiling. He was better last game, but he needs to find another gear and have greater stamina to really make a difference.