Elephant in the room but isn't Barnes suppose to be getting better?

[Tha Cynic]

we gotta stop talking about scottie in the same breath as rj and poeltl and quick, cause we can sit these 3

scottie actually needs these games just like our bench ppl, hes playing worse and worse as season goes on

I thought he would be able to stat pad against these trash teams, somehow he's playing even worse against them

in the game thread its like rj and scottie this rj scottie that lol but hes in the same category as our other guys right now...thats why the other 3 are taking turns sitting and scottie is playing all the games like all our young developing players

He’s playing all these games because he’s the only all star on the team in the last three years and you can’t rest your all stars as per NBA rules.

[PushDaRock]

I thought he would be able to stat pad against these trash teams, somehow he's playing even worse against them

in the game thread its like rj and scottie this rj scottie that lol but hes in the same category as our other guys right now...thats why the other 3 are taking turns sitting and scottie is playing all the games like all our young developing players

He’s playing all these games because he’s the only all star on the team in the last three years and you can’t rest your all stars as per NBA rules.

Probably is the case but given what we are seeing he could certainly use the reps too

[Indeed]

I think that's the most revealing thing is that despite the fact he has worked on his shooting since college the raw skills really have shown little improvement over all these years so expecting a leap there seems unreasonable. I can still see some improvements in his consistency and motor and professionalism and defense and AST:TO those are all possible to me. But when it comes to the handle, footwork, touch, etc.. ie the bag - I'm not buying that there's some radical improvement coming over the next couple of years.

I actually think shooting improvement is the most realistic way he can get better (at least short term). Everything else (becoming a dirty work/garbage man type) takes a radical change in Barnes play style. He clearly wants to play like a guard/wing. Who has been able to make a complete shift in play style after 4 years in the league? Shooting (as depressing as it might sound) is our best hope. He’s at least has stretches of solid 3pt and midrange shooting. He’s shown more flashes as a shooter than he has a big man banger/postup/screener type player.

It’s probably more realistic for Barnes to get his shooting to “acceptable” than it is to completely change him as a player. Is this encouraging? Nope.

He either needs to become a FT merchant or has to learn to shoot. Not being able to do either isn't going to cut it unless we just accept he becomes a low usage 4th/5th option

Free throw is another way to improve the efficiency. Sadly, I don't buy him on that.
Two reasons. One is him being a pass first player, which will make the play rather than draw the foul. Second is his physical limitation, where he is neither particularly quick nor having quick jumps nor good second jump.

Paying near max for 3rd option is already rare in any team, and mainly championship contending teams, let alone 4th or 5th option. And his defense isn't Giannis / Mobley type of shot blocker with switchable defense, nor Anunoby type of lock down perimeter defender, so he is neither excel on neither end for his value. His defense is more disruption type, similar to Trent with better lateral quickness, which I don't categorize that into elite. More someone who helps in double, yet, I argued good defensive team doesn't need to double.

[PushDaRock]

I actually think shooting improvement is the most realistic way he can get better (at least short term). Everything else (becoming a dirty work/garbage man type) takes a radical change in Barnes play style. He clearly wants to play like a guard/wing. Who has been able to make a complete shift in play style after 4 years in the league? Shooting (as depressing as it might sound) is our best hope. He’s at least has stretches of solid 3pt and midrange shooting. He’s shown more flashes as a shooter than he has a big man banger/postup/screener type player.

It’s probably more realistic for Barnes to get his shooting to “acceptable” than it is to completely change him as a player. Is this encouraging? Nope.

He either needs to become a FT merchant or has to learn to shoot. Not being able to do either isn't going to cut it unless we just accept he becomes a low usage 4th/5th option

Free throw is another way to improve the efficiency. Sadly, I don't buy him on that.
Two reasons. One is him being a pass first player, which will make the play rather than draw the foul. Second is his physical limitation, where he is neither particularly quick nor having quick jumps nor good second jump.

Paying near max for 3rd option is already rare in any team, and mainly championship contending teams, let alone 4th or 5th option. And his defense isn't Giannis / Mobley type of shot blocker with switchable defense, nor Anunoby type of lock down perimeter defender, so he is neither excel on neither end for his value. His defense is more disruption type, similar to Trent with better lateral quickness, which I don't categorize that into elite. More someone who helps in double, yet, I argued good defensive team doesn't need to double.

He can draw fouls at a decent rate when he gets switched onto someone smaller. Unfortunately not something that really scales well. I do think he's trying to make an effort to draw more fouls lately, the results are predictably ugly when he's not getting a friendly whistle, he's not a good finisher when he doesn't get all the way to the rim. But, I do like that he is at least trying to initiate more contact even if he's not the best at finishing through contact when he doesn't get the call.

I think he probably has more untapped defensive potential than he does offensive potential. If he's going to earn the contract he got, the vast majority of the value likely will come from the defensive end.

[Indeed]

He either needs to become a FT merchant or has to learn to shoot. Not being able to do either isn't going to cut it unless we just accept he becomes a low usage 4th/5th option

Free throw is another way to improve the efficiency. Sadly, I don't buy him on that.
Two reasons. One is him being a pass first player, which will make the play rather than draw the foul. Second is his physical limitation, where he is neither particularly quick nor having quick jumps nor good second jump.

Paying near max for 3rd option is already rare in any team, and mainly championship contending teams, let alone 4th or 5th option. And his defense isn't Giannis / Mobley type of shot blocker with switchable defense, nor Anunoby type of lock down perimeter defender, so he is neither excel on neither end for his value. His defense is more disruption type, similar to Trent with better lateral quickness, which I don't categorize that into elite. More someone who helps in double, yet, I argued good defensive team doesn't need to double.

He can draw fouls at a decent rate when he gets switched onto someone smaller. Unfortunately not something that really scales well. I do think he's trying to make an effort to draw more fouls lately, the results are predictably ugly when he's not getting a friendly whistle, he's not a good finisher when he doesn't get all the way to the rim. But, I do like that he is at least trying to initiate more contact even if he's not the best at finishing through contact when he doesn't get the call.

I think he probably has more untapped defensive potential than he does offensive potential. If he's going to earn the contract he got, the vast majority of the value likely will come from the defensive end.

Good teams aren't letting him switch, they might send double and have him give up the ball, or make him a turn around jump shooter. It doesn't translate against good teams.

As for defense, his inability to change direction due to his hip will limit him. He might have untapped potential, but physically limited. He is a PF, which is effective, but he is not in the Anunoby level who is quick and big being a switchable defender. Barnes is not switchable, and neither being long enough to be Giannis / Mobley type of shot blocker.

His only way to be worth near his contract is 3 point shooting. Right now, he is not even spacing enough at the corner, teams may not even go contest him.

[ConSarnit]

I actually think shooting improvement is the most realistic way he can get better (at least short term). Everything else (becoming a dirty work/garbage man type) takes a radical change in Barnes play style. He clearly wants to play like a guard/wing. Who has been able to make a complete shift in play style after 4 years in the league? Shooting (as depressing as it might sound) is our best hope. He’s at least has stretches of solid 3pt and midrange shooting. He’s shown more flashes as a shooter than he has a big man banger/postup/screener type player.

It’s probably more realistic for Barnes to get his shooting to “acceptable” than it is to completely change him as a player. Is this encouraging? Nope.

He either needs to become a FT merchant or has to learn to shoot. Not being able to do either isn't going to cut it unless we just accept he becomes a low usage 4th/5th option

Free throw is another way to improve the efficiency. Sadly, I don't buy him on that.
Two reasons. One is him being a pass first player, which will make the play rather than draw the foul. Second is his physical limitation, where he is neither particularly quick nor having quick jumps nor good second jump.

Paying near max for 3rd option is already rare in any team, and mainly championship contending teams, let alone 4th or 5th option. And his defense isn't Giannis / Mobley type of shot blocker with switchable defense, nor Anunoby type of lock down perimeter defender, so he is neither excel on neither end for his value. His defense is more disruption type, similar to Trent with better lateral quickness, which I don't categorize that into elite. More someone who helps in double, yet, I argued good defensive team doesn't need to double.

I don’t buy the FT thing either, at least not in the short term. His game is not indicative of being a high FTR player. He’s not a good enough ball handler to consistently attack the rim. He’s also not a free throw merchant type player.

As for his defense I agree that it’s not valuable enough (yet) that I can see it compensating enough for his lacking offense (at least as far as his contract goes). If he’s going to be a non-shooting PF he’s going to have to be able to play small ball 5 (I think he has shown some decent rim protection flashes). If he’s “non-shooter PF who provides secondary rim protection” that player is not worth the contract we have given him. If he can play more small ball 5 and anchor the defense then that makes working around his offensive limitations far more palatable. He could provide good value in the Draymond role.

If we need to reduce his offensive volume to up his efficiency I also don’t know how much value that type of player has. What successful teams are running their offense through low volume, middling efficiency scorers who aren’t elite playmakers? Barnes is a good playmaker but I don’t believe we have enough evidence to show that he can run a high level NBA offense. We haven’t even really been a “good” NBA offense since he arrived (a lot was propped up by Nurse-ball).

I would say the “easiest” path for next year would be to get his 3pt shooting to 34-35%, build on his midrange game from this season and reduce his overall scoring load in an attempt to get him to league average efficiency. I we can stabilize that we can work on other aspects that I believe will take longer to ingrain (screening, post up, roll man possessions, etc). I just don’t see how we can flip his entire player profile (wing/guard to big man) in one season.

[ConSarnit]

Free throw is another way to improve the efficiency. Sadly, I don't buy him on that.
Two reasons. One is him being a pass first player, which will make the play rather than draw the foul. Second is his physical limitation, where he is neither particularly quick nor having quick jumps nor good second jump.

Paying near max for 3rd option is already rare in any team, and mainly championship contending teams, let alone 4th or 5th option. And his defense isn't Giannis / Mobley type of shot blocker with switchable defense, nor Anunoby type of lock down perimeter defender, so he is neither excel on neither end for his value. His defense is more disruption type, similar to Trent with better lateral quickness, which I don't categorize that into elite. More someone who helps in double, yet, I argued good defensive team doesn't need to double.

He can draw fouls at a decent rate when he gets switched onto someone smaller. Unfortunately not something that really scales well. I do think he's trying to make an effort to draw more fouls lately, the results are predictably ugly when he's not getting a friendly whistle, he's not a good finisher when he doesn't get all the way to the rim. But, I do like that he is at least trying to initiate more contact even if he's not the best at finishing through contact when he doesn't get the call.

I think he probably has more untapped defensive potential than he does offensive potential. If he's going to earn the contract he got, the vast majority of the value likely will come from the defensive end.

Good teams aren't letting him switch, they might send double and have him give up the ball, or make him a turn around jump shooter. It doesn't translate against good teams.

As for defense, his inability to change direction due to his hip will limit him. He might have untapped potential, but physically limited. He is a PF, which is effective, but he is not in the Anunoby level who is quick and big being a switchable defender. Barnes is not switchable, and neither being long enough to be Giannis / Mobley type of shot blocker.

His only way to be worth near his contract is 3 point shooting. Right now, he is not even spacing enough at the corner, teams may not even go contest him.

I think many posters think the 3pt thing is cliche but I think if we found ourselves in the playoffs this year we would face major offensive issues trying to run out Barnes and Poeltl as our front court. It hasn’t happened as much this year but we’ve seen teams give Barnes the Tony Allen treatment from 3 and it causes major problems. Since the proliferation of the 3 ball no team outside of GSW has had any real success playing a non-shooting PF and C. Cleveland has seen their offense crater the past 2 post-seasons trying to play 2 non-shooting bigs. You can’t play 2 zero spacing players anymore and hope to have success unless your guards are Steph and Klay. If Barnes can’t shoot next year then the Barnes/Poeltl combo is going to kill our offense when it matters (playoffs) and we’re not going to be able to fall back on defense if we’re also rolling out IQ/RJ/Ingram at the 1-3. Barnes needs to be able to shoot or we need a spacing 5. It seems simple but that’s how the league currently works.

[PushDaRock]

Free throw is another way to improve the efficiency. Sadly, I don't buy him on that.
Two reasons. One is him being a pass first player, which will make the play rather than draw the foul. Second is his physical limitation, where he is neither particularly quick nor having quick jumps nor good second jump.

Paying near max for 3rd option is already rare in any team, and mainly championship contending teams, let alone 4th or 5th option. And his defense isn't Giannis / Mobley type of shot blocker with switchable defense, nor Anunoby type of lock down perimeter defender, so he is neither excel on neither end for his value. His defense is more disruption type, similar to Trent with better lateral quickness, which I don't categorize that into elite. More someone who helps in double, yet, I argued good defensive team doesn't need to double.

He can draw fouls at a decent rate when he gets switched onto someone smaller. Unfortunately not something that really scales well. I do think he's trying to make an effort to draw more fouls lately, the results are predictably ugly when he's not getting a friendly whistle, he's not a good finisher when he doesn't get all the way to the rim. But, I do like that he is at least trying to initiate more contact even if he's not the best at finishing through contact when he doesn't get the call.

I think he probably has more untapped defensive potential than he does offensive potential. If he's going to earn the contract he got, the vast majority of the value likely will come from the defensive end.

Good teams aren't letting him switch, they might send double and have him give up the ball, or make him a turn around jump shooter. It doesn't translate against good teams.

As for defense, his inability to change direction due to his hip will limit him. He might have untapped potential, but physically limited. He is a PF, which is effective, but he is not in the Anunoby level who is quick and big being a switchable defender. Barnes is not switchable, and neither being long enough to be Giannis / Mobley type of shot blocker.

His only way to be worth near his contract is 3 point shooting. Right now, he is not even spacing enough at the corner, teams may not even go contest him.

I think Scottie processes the game very well on the defensive end, he does some of the more subtle but not flashy stuff like stunting and recovering back on his man giving time for our guards to switch back onto the ball handler. He's really good at that because he can actually switch if necessary which is different than a big that usually has to play drop coverage or get blown by. Things like that don't pop up on a stat sheet but make a large difference in executing a good defensive scheme. He's not the very best rim protector or the very best lockdown defender, but he does everything defensively at an above average level. I would disagree that he isn't switchable, he definitely can switch and guard every position at least at an adequate level.

[Tripod]

Honest question, who on the Raps draws teams top defenders?

[PushDaRock]

He either needs to become a FT merchant or has to learn to shoot. Not being able to do either isn't going to cut it unless we just accept he becomes a low usage 4th/5th option

Free throw is another way to improve the efficiency. Sadly, I don't buy him on that.
Two reasons. One is him being a pass first player, which will make the play rather than draw the foul. Second is his physical limitation, where he is neither particularly quick nor having quick jumps nor good second jump.

Paying near max for 3rd option is already rare in any team, and mainly championship contending teams, let alone 4th or 5th option. And his defense isn't Giannis / Mobley type of shot blocker with switchable defense, nor Anunoby type of lock down perimeter defender, so he is neither excel on neither end for his value. His defense is more disruption type, similar to Trent with better lateral quickness, which I don't categorize that into elite. More someone who helps in double, yet, I argued good defensive team doesn't need to double.

I don’t buy the FT thing either, at least not in the short term. His game is not indicative of being a high FTR player. He’s not a good enough ball handler to consistently attack the rim. He’s also not a free throw merchant type player.

As for his defense I agree that it’s not valuable enough (yet) that I can see it compensating enough for his lacking offense (at least as far as his contract goes). If he’s going to be a non-shooting PF he’s going to have to be able to play small ball 5 (I think he has shown some decent rim protection flashes). If he’s “non-shooter PF who provides secondary rim protection” that player is not worth the contract we have given him. If he can play more small ball 5 and anchor the defense then that makes working around his offensive limitations far more palatable. He could provide good value in the Draymond role.

If we need to reduce his offensive volume to up his efficiency I also don’t know how much value that type of player has. What successful teams are running their offense through low volume, middling efficiency scorers who aren’t elite playmakers? Barnes is a good playmaker but I don’t believe we have enough evidence to show that he can run a high level NBA offense. We haven’t even really been a “good” NBA offense since he arrived (a lot was propped up by Nurse-ball).

I would say the “easiest” path for next year would be to get his 3pt shooting to 34-35%, build on his midrange game from this season and reduce his overall scoring load in an attempt to get him to league average efficiency. I we can stabilize that we can work on other aspects that I believe will take longer to ingrain (screening, post up, roll man possessions, etc). I just don’t see how we can flip his entire player profile (wing/guard to big man) in one season.

He has no real choice but to keep shooting 3's, you can't have 2 guys on the court that aren't at least willing to shoot them.

Small Ball 5 is an interesting option, might be something they experiment more with next season.

I'm not saying it's likely he becomes a FT merchant, but I do find that he is opportunistic at drawing fouls when he gets favorable match-ups. It's possible that he gets more of those opportunities if he's out there with Ingram, RJ and IQ when those guys are drawing more of the attention and they might help more off him too.

I'm overall not optimistic but I do think there is probably still a path for him to get to league average efficiency in a lower usage role with optimal shot selection but it's certainly fair to question whether someone like that is worth the max.

[PushDaRock]

Maybe we can look at Deni Avdija as a possible example of someone that looked fairly hopeless as a shooter and has turned it around. His first 3 seasons, he shot 31.5%, 31.7% and 29.7% from 3 all on 1 make per game. Last 2 seasons, he's improved to 37.4% on 1.2 makes and this season 36.9% on 1.7 makes. Being at least a passable 3 point shooter has also opened up Avdija's driving game as he gets to the rim more and draws a lot more fouls since improving his shooting. In doing so, he went from sub 53 TS% career in his first 3 years to 60 TS% in his last 2 years. Not saying this is likely for Scottie but it is in the realm of possibility.

[Indeed]

Honest question, who on the Raps draws teams top defenders?

Barrett so far was guarded by the opposing best player most of the time, mainly before we were fully healthy.
His TS% dropped around the time we started to tank (or since Quickley came back and took some of his usage?), but his TS% was around average (not your 1st option around 60%, but around 57%/58%) with transition and PnR type of offense.

[Indeed]

Free throw is another way to improve the efficiency. Sadly, I don't buy him on that.
Two reasons. One is him being a pass first player, which will make the play rather than draw the foul. Second is his physical limitation, where he is neither particularly quick nor having quick jumps nor good second jump.

Paying near max for 3rd option is already rare in any team, and mainly championship contending teams, let alone 4th or 5th option. And his defense isn't Giannis / Mobley type of shot blocker with switchable defense, nor Anunoby type of lock down perimeter defender, so he is neither excel on neither end for his value. His defense is more disruption type, similar to Trent with better lateral quickness, which I don't categorize that into elite. More someone who helps in double, yet, I argued good defensive team doesn't need to double.

I don’t buy the FT thing either, at least not in the short term. His game is not indicative of being a high FTR player. He’s not a good enough ball handler to consistently attack the rim. He’s also not a free throw merchant type player.

As for his defense I agree that it’s not valuable enough (yet) that I can see it compensating enough for his lacking offense (at least as far as his contract goes). If he’s going to be a non-shooting PF he’s going to have to be able to play small ball 5 (I think he has shown some decent rim protection flashes). If he’s “non-shooter PF who provides secondary rim protection” that player is not worth the contract we have given him. If he can play more small ball 5 and anchor the defense then that makes working around his offensive limitations far more palatable. He could provide good value in the Draymond role.

If we need to reduce his offensive volume to up his efficiency I also don’t know how much value that type of player has. What successful teams are running their offense through low volume, middling efficiency scorers who aren’t elite playmakers? Barnes is a good playmaker but I don’t believe we have enough evidence to show that he can run a high level NBA offense. We haven’t even really been a “good” NBA offense since he arrived (a lot was propped up by Nurse-ball).

I would say the “easiest” path for next year would be to get his 3pt shooting to 34-35%, build on his midrange game from this season and reduce his overall scoring load in an attempt to get him to league average efficiency. I we can stabilize that we can work on other aspects that I believe will take longer to ingrain (screening, post up, roll man possessions, etc). I just don’t see how we can flip his entire player profile (wing/guard to big man) in one season.

He has no real choice but to keep shooting 3's, you can't have 2 guys on the court that aren't at least willing to shoot them.

Small Ball 5 is an interesting option, might be something they experiment more with next season.

I'm not saying it's likely he becomes a FT merchant, but I do find that he is opportunistic at drawing fouls when he gets favorable match-ups. It's possible that he gets more of those opportunities if he's out there with Ingram, RJ and IQ when those guys are drawing more of the attention and they might help more off him too.

I'm overall not optimistic but I do think there is probably still a path for him to get to league average efficiency in a lower usage role with optimal shot selection but it's certainly fair to question whether someone like that is worth the max.

Not seeing our rebounding with Barnes at C, which is one of my issue. Maybe we shall see how Ingram can help in our rebounding.

[mdenny]

The truth is...there is a strong correlation with the "scotty ppl" and a toxic element of the raptor fanbase.

So in a sad way....scotty barnes will Always be associated with a certain type of toxic loser raptor fan. The type that threatened player wives on Instagram.

It's not scotty's fault. But he's not gonna shake that rabid fanbase.

In fact....the defining feature of scotty's career with the Raptors might end up being some sort of social media perversion.

The favorite player of trolls.

[PushDaRock]

Honest question, who on the Raps draws teams top defenders?

Ingram

[PushDaRock]

I don’t buy the FT thing either, at least not in the short term. His game is not indicative of being a high FTR player. He’s not a good enough ball handler to consistently attack the rim. He’s also not a free throw merchant type player.

As for his defense I agree that it’s not valuable enough (yet) that I can see it compensating enough for his lacking offense (at least as far as his contract goes). If he’s going to be a non-shooting PF he’s going to have to be able to play small ball 5 (I think he has shown some decent rim protection flashes). If he’s “non-shooter PF who provides secondary rim protection” that player is not worth the contract we have given him. If he can play more small ball 5 and anchor the defense then that makes working around his offensive limitations far more palatable. He could provide good value in the Draymond role.

If we need to reduce his offensive volume to up his efficiency I also don’t know how much value that type of player has. What successful teams are running their offense through low volume, middling efficiency scorers who aren’t elite playmakers? Barnes is a good playmaker but I don’t believe we have enough evidence to show that he can run a high level NBA offense. We haven’t even really been a “good” NBA offense since he arrived (a lot was propped up by Nurse-ball).

I would say the “easiest” path for next year would be to get his 3pt shooting to 34-35%, build on his midrange game from this season and reduce his overall scoring load in an attempt to get him to league average efficiency. I we can stabilize that we can work on other aspects that I believe will take longer to ingrain (screening, post up, roll man possessions, etc). I just don’t see how we can flip his entire player profile (wing/guard to big man) in one season.

He has no real choice but to keep shooting 3's, you can't have 2 guys on the court that aren't at least willing to shoot them.

Small Ball 5 is an interesting option, might be something they experiment more with next season.

I'm not saying it's likely he becomes a FT merchant, but I do find that he is opportunistic at drawing fouls when he gets favorable match-ups. It's possible that he gets more of those opportunities if he's out there with Ingram, RJ and IQ when those guys are drawing more of the attention and they might help more off him too.

I'm overall not optimistic but I do think there is probably still a path for him to get to league average efficiency in a lower usage role with optimal shot selection but it's certainly fair to question whether someone like that is worth the max.

Not seeing our rebounding with Barnes at C, which is one of my issue. Maybe we shall see how Ingram can help in our rebounding.

Earlier in the year, we played a Scottie, Mogbo and Boucher front court that was interesting and produced some pretty good results defensively.

Right now, all the projected open backup minutes are at the 4 and 5 spot. Will be interesting to see how they decide to navigate it, but I think we will at least test a Scottie at the 5 and Ingram at the 4 lineup out there at some point.

[brownbobcat]

Again, You guys don't see what's going on.

Darko has been putting Scottie in beyond difficult situations, if you're paying attention, you'd see it.

Time to time you'll see an "old, closer to basket game" from Scottie, which is something we know he can do.

The goal of this season, is to see who can fit with Scottie.

If you don't see it, I really don't know how else to explain it.

What is Scottie's elite offensive skill which justifies fitting players around him?

He makes good/quick reads in 4-on-3 situations. Well, that's great, except he can't create 4-on-3 situations nor can anyone else on the team.

[Indeed]

He has no real choice but to keep shooting 3's, you can't have 2 guys on the court that aren't at least willing to shoot them.

Small Ball 5 is an interesting option, might be something they experiment more with next season.

I'm not saying it's likely he becomes a FT merchant, but I do find that he is opportunistic at drawing fouls when he gets favorable match-ups. It's possible that he gets more of those opportunities if he's out there with Ingram, RJ and IQ when those guys are drawing more of the attention and they might help more off him too.

I'm overall not optimistic but I do think there is probably still a path for him to get to league average efficiency in a lower usage role with optimal shot selection but it's certainly fair to question whether someone like that is worth the max.

Not seeing our rebounding with Barnes at C, which is one of my issue. Maybe we shall see how Ingram can help in our rebounding.

Earlier in the year, we played a Scottie, Mogbo and Boucher front court that was interesting and produced some pretty good results defensively.

Right now, all the projected open backup minutes are at the 4 and 5 spot. Will be interesting to see how they decide to navigate it, but I think we will at least test a Scottie at the 5 and Ingram at the 4 lineup out there at some point.

That lineup seems to have Mitchell half of the time, and the offense doesn't sustain to be a net positive.
Maybe we can bang on Mogbo being an offensive player, and Boucher or replacement being decent consistent 3&D.
However, to me, we are just putting most of the work to other role players and require a lockdown at the guard spot.

[Oakvillehoops]

Every day I wish we had traded Rookie Scottie for KD.

Imagine watching

FVV/OG/KD/Siakam/Poetl over the pathetic going no where rebuild we’ve been doing. Would have been a real contender.

We still could have unloaded that entire team for assets to start again at anytime.

[ConSarnit]

Maybe we can look at Deni Avdija as a possible example of someone that looked fairly hopeless as a shooter and has turned it around. His first 3 seasons, he shot 31.5%, 31.7% and 29.7% from 3 all on 1 make per game. Last 2 seasons, he's improved to 37.4% on 1.2 makes and this season 36.9% on 1.7 makes. Being at least a passable 3 point shooter has also opened up Avdija's driving game as he gets to the rim more and draws a lot more fouls since improving his shooting. In doing so, he went from sub 53 TS% career in his first 3 years to 60 TS% in his last 2 years. Not saying this is likely for Scottie but it is in the realm of possibility.

I’d say it’s possible but I’d add a caveat: Avdija is a case where he’s shifted the majority of his 3’s to “wide open” attempts. Here are his “wide open” stats over the years:

32%
39%
33%
44%
35%

Now compare that to Barnes:

29%
30%
39%
30%

The fact that Barnes can’t even hit in wide open situations is concerning. Even if we try and shift Barnes 3pt attempts to only “wide open” it still doesn’t really extrapolate to even an “average” 3pt shooter. Barnes is starting from an even lower place than Avdija. Now, we can definitely cut out some of Barnes ATB 3’s but then he get shifted to the corner (there are other guys much more suited for that role) and his corner shooting is way below league average so I worry he won’t get guarded at all from there either. It is currently looking like a difficult road to get Barnes to a player that needs to be guarded from 3 (I say this more in terms of playoffs. If he can shoot 33% in the regular season we can survive that).

I worry that we’d have to drop his 3pt volume so low that he’s still a complete non-factor. If he’s only taking 2 3pa per36 that is such low volume that I doubt it moves the needle at all. Barnes need to be able to make 35% of his 3’s and be taking at least 3-4 per game to make any kind of dent. It’s sort of the JV corollary: being able to hit 0.7 3’s per game isn’t really valuable because there are still far more possessions the defense will benefit from not guarding you at all. Effective 3pt shooting is both volume and 3pt%.