2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion

[Asian Celtic]

Team Dyson. Hawks have a great one.

[Whateva]

Is Dyson even that good of a defender ? Besides the steals and deflections...im not a big fan of using steals as a defensive metric, do the steals come from pure straight defense or just ability of anticipation

[tmorgan]

Is Dyson even that good of a defender ? Besides the steals and deflections...im not a big fan of using steals as a defensive metric, do the steals come from pure straight defense or just ability of anticipation

If you’re interested, try reading the thread you just posted in.

[Whateva]

Is Dyson even that good of a defender ? Besides the steals and deflections...im not a big fan of using steals as a defensive metric, do the steals come from pure straight defense or just ability of anticipation

If you’re interested, try reading the thread you just posted in.

I dont have so much free time as you, Mr. Nice.

[tmorgan]

Is Dyson even that good of a defender ? Besides the steals and deflections...im not a big fan of using steals as a defensive metric, do the steals come from pure straight defense or just ability of anticipation

If you’re interested, try reading the thread you just posted in.

I dont have so much free time as you, Mr. Nice.

Hmm. Sounds like a you problem, Whateva.

[kg01]

Is Dyson even that good of a defender ? Besides the steals and deflections...im not a big fan of using steals as a defensive metric, do the steals come from pure straight defense or just ability of anticipation

I'm not a big fan of people assuming a guy that gets steals and deflections is a questionable defender because reasons.

[epfou1]

do the steals come from pure straight defense or just ability of anticipation

Why does this matter? In both instances it shows you're a good defender.

Daniels doesn't gamble for steals, then get torched offensively when it doesn't come off.

[Whateva]

Is Dyson even that good of a defender ? Besides the steals and deflections...im not a big fan of using steals as a defensive metric, do the steals come from pure straight defense or just ability of anticipation

I'm not a big fan of people assuming a guy that gets steals and deflections is a questionable defender because reasons.

Maybe because there has been players in the past who were top in steals but not elite defenders ? it's not rocket science

[Whateva]

Is Dyson even that good of a defender ? Besides the steals and deflections...im not a big fan of using steals as a defensive metric, do the steals come from pure straight defense or just ability of anticipation

I'm not a big fan of people assuming a guy that gets steals and deflections is a questionable defender because reasons.

Maybe because there has been players in the past who were great in steals but not elite defenders ? it's not rocket science

[brackdan70]

Is Dyson even that good of a defender ? Besides the steals and deflections...im not a big fan of using steals as a defensive metric, do the steals come from pure straight defense or just ability of anticipation

He shows up pretty well in advanced metrics as well.
7th in D LEBRON as an example.

[brackdan70]

No Jarrett Allen love?
He is the anchor for the Cavs. Mobley is good but partly because of Allen.

[kg01]

Is Dyson even that good of a defender ? Besides the steals and deflections...im not a big fan of using steals as a defensive metric, do the steals come from pure straight defense or just ability of anticipation

I'm not a big fan of people assuming a guy that gets steals and deflections is a questionable defender because reasons.

Maybe because there has been players in the past who were great in steals but not elite defenders ? it's not rocket science

Any basketball fan that pays even fleeting attention to basketball knows steals, in and of themselves, do not necessarily suggest a player is a great defender.

Give us some credit.

[cupcakesnake]

Where does Dort’s defensive reputation come from? He’s clearly a good defender, but the analytics have generally never seen him as a great defender

Reputation comes from high profile playoff matches. He had some incredible possessions against still-prime James Harden in 2020, and then against Luka last year. In terms of screen navigation and on-ball disruption combined with strength, he's very unique. Basically no one at that weight/strength moves his feet and hands so well. Usually thick guys have a harder time with screens, but Dort is a relentless hound.

I don't like when guys say "analytics" dont see a player a certain way, without citing which ones they mean. Dort is more of a specialist (man-to-man defender) than he is a team-wide disruptor, and impact metrics tend to favor the help defenders. That being said, any "analytics" I check have Dort as a very good defender. He forces turnovers and has an elite defensive fg%. His on/off stuff is meh in OKC this year because they have a million good defenders, and also on-ball stoppers dont tend to impact team defensive rating (just like Dyson Daniels).

[Special_Puppy]

Where does Dort’s defensive reputation come from? He’s clearly a good defender, but the analytics have generally never seen him as a great defender

Reputation comes from high profile playoff matches. He had some incredible possessions against still-prime James Harden in 2020, and then against Luka last year. In terms of screen navigation and on-ball disruption combined with strength, he's very unique. Basically no one at that weight/strength moves his feet and hands so well. Usually thick guys have a harder time with screens, but Dort is a relentless hound.

I don't like when guys say "analytics" dont see a player a certain way, without citing which ones they mean. Dort is more of a specialist (man-to-man defender) than he is a team-wide disruptor, and impact metrics tend to favor the help defenders. That being said, any "analytics" I check have Dort as a very good defender. He forces turnovers and has an elite defensive fg%. His on/off stuff is meh in OKC this year because they have a million good defenders, and also on-ball stoppers dont tend to impact team defensive rating (just like Dyson Daniels).

Sorry should have been more specific. I was referring to All-In-One Metrics. Here are Dort's All-In-One Defensive Metrics
D-DPM: +0.96
Expected D-EPM: +0.9
D-LEBRON: +0.8
X-D-RAPM: +0.7
3-Year D-RAPM (on X-RAPM dot com): +0.5
Time-Decay D-RAPM (B-Ball Index): +0.56
3-Year D-RAPM on NBARAPM.com -0.5
My personal multi-year composite of advanced stats updated through 2023 (out of date): +0.2

[DrModesty]

Where does Dort’s defensive reputation come from? He’s clearly a good defender, but the analytics have generally never seen him as a great defender

Reputation comes from high profile playoff matches. He had some incredible possessions against still-prime James Harden in 2020, and then against Luka last year. In terms of screen navigation and on-ball disruption combined with strength, he's very unique. Basically no one at that weight/strength moves his feet and hands so well. Usually thick guys have a harder time with screens, but Dort is a relentless hound.

I don't like when guys say "analytics" dont see a player a certain way, without citing which ones they mean. Dort is more of a specialist (man-to-man defender) than he is a team-wide disruptor, and impact metrics tend to favor the help defenders. That being said, any "analytics" I check have Dort as a very good defender. He forces turnovers and has an elite defensive fg%. His on/off stuff is meh in OKC this year because they have a million good defenders, and also on-ball stoppers dont tend to impact team defensive rating (just like Dyson Daniels).

He also damaged Ingram's reputation last year in the playoffs. He has been in 3 playoffs series in his career and each time his defense on the oppositions best player became a storyline. Big time impact in key matchups this year too against Jaylen Brown and Donovan Mitchell in the top of the table clashes.

[jasonxxx102]

Where does Dort’s defensive reputation come from? He’s clearly a good defender, but the analytics have generally never seen him as a great defender

Reputation comes from high profile playoff matches. He had some incredible possessions against still-prime James Harden in 2020, and then against Luka last year. In terms of screen navigation and on-ball disruption combined with strength, he's very unique. Basically no one at that weight/strength moves his feet and hands so well. Usually thick guys have a harder time with screens, but Dort is a relentless hound.

I don't like when guys say "analytics" dont see a player a certain way, without citing which ones they mean. Dort is more of a specialist (man-to-man defender) than he is a team-wide disruptor, and impact metrics tend to favor the help defenders. That being said, any "analytics" I check have Dort as a very good defender. He forces turnovers and has an elite defensive fg%. His on/off stuff is meh in OKC this year because they have a million good defenders, and also on-ball stoppers dont tend to impact team defensive rating (just like Dyson Daniels).

Sorry should have been more specific. I was referring to All-In-One Metrics. Here are Dort's All-In-One Defensive Metrics
D-DPM: +0.96
Expected D-EPM: +0.9
D-LEBRON: +0.8
X-D-RAPM: +0.7
3-Year D-RAPM (on X-RAPM dot com): +0.5
Time-Decay D-RAPM (B-Ball Index): +0.56
3-Year D-RAPM on NBARAPM.com -0.5
My personal multi-year composite of advanced stats updated through 2023 (out of date): +0.2

Lou Dort is near the top of the league in matchup difficulty. He's almost always guarding the opponents best player.

All in one stats without context are garbage

[bbms]

thunder has like 5 or 6 defenders better than dort.

dort is a specialist. he's not that complete uber impactful playmaker that turns defenses around.

he's competent at a (very meaningful) task

jdub, caruso, chet and imo cason are not better, they are much better defenders.

the work jdub and caruso put on those micro lineups wrecking havoc vs 7 footers? my goodness that **** is dpoy level

[Special_Puppy]

Reputation comes from high profile playoff matches. He had some incredible possessions against still-prime James Harden in 2020, and then against Luka last year. In terms of screen navigation and on-ball disruption combined with strength, he's very unique. Basically no one at that weight/strength moves his feet and hands so well. Usually thick guys have a harder time with screens, but Dort is a relentless hound.

I don't like when guys say "analytics" dont see a player a certain way, without citing which ones they mean. Dort is more of a specialist (man-to-man defender) than he is a team-wide disruptor, and impact metrics tend to favor the help defenders. That being said, any "analytics" I check have Dort as a very good defender. He forces turnovers and has an elite defensive fg%. His on/off stuff is meh in OKC this year because they have a million good defenders, and also on-ball stoppers dont tend to impact team defensive rating (just like Dyson Daniels).

Sorry should have been more specific. I was referring to All-In-One Metrics. Here are Dort's All-In-One Defensive Metrics
D-DPM: +0.96
Expected D-EPM: +0.9
D-LEBRON: +0.8
X-D-RAPM: +0.7
3-Year D-RAPM (on X-RAPM dot com): +0.5
Time-Decay D-RAPM (B-Ball Index): +0.56
3-Year D-RAPM on NBARAPM.com -0.5
My personal multi-year composite of advanced stats updated through 2023 (out of date): +0.2

Lou Dort is near the top of the league in matchup difficulty. He's almost always guarding the opponents best player.

All in one stats without context are garbage

I mean All-In-One Stats try to take in as much context as possible. Also the RAPM stats are just looking at what happens when Dort goes on and off the court adjusting for teammate and opponent quality

[jasonxxx102]

Sorry should have been more specific. I was referring to All-In-One Metrics. Here are Dort's All-In-One Defensive Metrics
D-DPM: +0.96
Expected D-EPM: +0.9
D-LEBRON: +0.8
X-D-RAPM: +0.7
3-Year D-RAPM (on X-RAPM dot com): +0.5
Time-Decay D-RAPM (B-Ball Index): +0.56
3-Year D-RAPM on NBARAPM.com -0.5
My personal multi-year composite of advanced stats updated through 2023 (out of date): +0.2

Lou Dort is near the top of the league in matchup difficulty. He's almost always guarding the opponents best player.

All in one stats without context are garbage

I mean All-In-One Stats try to take in as much context as possible. Also the RAPM stats are just looking at what happens when Dort goes on and off the court adjusting for teammate and opponent quality

The on/offs for the Thunder players are going to be all kinds of wacky because their entire team is elite defensive players.

[jayu70]

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