2024-2025 Regular Season Game 76: Los Angeles Clippers (42-32) at Orlando Magic (36-39) - 7pm

[Knightro]

I think it's still a developmental year.

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Pretty silly to say this coming off a 47 win season.

And then you have Jett, who is one of the guys theoretically they should be trying to develop, isn't even playing at all lol.

The 4 best players are still on rookie contracts. AB, Suggs, Paolo, and Franz.

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So what?

[Audi]

I probably did predict 50+ wins. I saw a reasonable range of between 42 and 56 wins and chose to error on the side of optimism. I didn’t anticipate Paolo and Franz missing significant time.

THEY ARE EIGHT GAMES UNDER .500 WHEN PAOLO PLAYS.

I'm sick of this "oh well you can't predict Paolo and Franz would be hurt" stuff when they've been worse with those guys than without.

They are 13-21 without Gary Harris this season.
They are 23-19 with Gary Harris this season.

[cedric76]

As opposed to what? Dooming after every loss?

Better than repeatedly lying to ourselves, no?

One of us is lying to ourselves and it ain’t me, brother. You are in the fire Mosley and Weltman camp when our top three highest paid players are JI, KCP, and Cole, and during a season when our three best players have played a total of 6 games together.

This is the cap sheet of a player development team and you are holding them to the standard of a contending team. Pause and appreciate how good our young core and coach must be to have fooled you into thinking they are contenders.

Well said

[pepe1991]

Salary distribution :

Zubac $11,8M
Powell $19M
Derrick Jones $ 9M

Those are 3 starters along 2 star players = $40M

compared to:
Isaac $25M
KCP $21M

Carter $12M
Wagner (M) $11M
Goga $9 M


KCP and JI make more money than Zubac , Powell and Derrick Jones combined. Carter , Wagner and Goga add another $32M in books.

So total $78M spent on 4 centers and 1 shooting guard. 3 /4 players aren't starting level material in nba, you can argue KCP can only start only on teams with star ball handlers.
Goga and Isaac can't even play together, neither can Goga and Mortiz, nor Carter and Goga.

It's just pure insanity how this roster was constructed. Fact that we start Corey Joseph and hope for playoffs just goes to show you how bad it is.


This whole "race for play in " is mockery of competitive sports. Heat last night started 2 rookies. Some guy named Pelle Larson played 30 min.
Bulls start rookie, have 3 good players out for a season.
Hawks traded Hunter and Bogdanovic for fat Niang, Levert and bag of chips. They also start a rookie and some guy named Gueye ( sophomore? Guy played 70 min last year in 6 games total ).

Like, we are only team on East that actually tries to win for play in, yet only time i'm confident they will win is when they face Kings, Wizards and Hornets.

Reading how injuries are to blame, to me, are mindless. Even if we are healthy, and are winning 47 games, we would still be 5th seed and second round exit team, assuming we can pass first round. But in nba no team is fully healthy. Kawhi played 30 games for Clippers this year.
Morant played less games than Banchero. Holmgren played 23 games for OKC. Porzingis, Brown, Holiday all missed whole bunch of games for Celtics.
Knicks lost Brunson until playoffs, McBride got hurt in same time and Mitchell Robinson didn't play since middle of last season , up until last 2 months.

It's nba. People are always hurt. Look at Bucks. 6th man doing cocaine, Lillard might need medical retirement, last year Middelton had to learn again how to walk, let alone play in offseason. if you watch nothing but your team, you will think they are unique in that way, but reality is different. Magic in general have roster made out of injury prone players, that's how they got and kept most of them ( Isaac, Harris, Carter) + Suggs playing style was accident waiting to happen that we all saw coming from mile away.

Main issue is roster construction. No PG on a roster from day one until finish.

[thelead]

Salary distribution :

Zubac $11,8M
Powell $19M
Derrick Jones $ 9M

Those are 3 starters along 2 star players = $40M

compared to:
Isaac $25M
KCP $21M

Carter $12M
Wagner (M) $11M
Goga $9 M


KCP and JI make more money than Zubac , Powell and Derrick Jones combined. Carter , Wagner and Goga add another $32M in books.

So total $78M spent on 4 centers and 1 shooting guard. 3 /4 players aren't starting level material in nba, you can argue KCP can only start only on teams with star ball handlers.
Goga and Isaac can't even play together, neither can Goga and Mortiz, nor Carter and Goga.

It's just pure insanity how this roster was constructed. Fact that we start Corey Joseph and hope for playoffs just goes to show you how bad it is.


This whole "race for play in " is mockery of competitive sports. Heat last night started 2 rookies. Some guy named Pelle Larson played 30 min.
Bulls start rookie, have 3 good players out for a season.
Hawks traded Hunter and Bogdanovic for fat Niang, Levert and bag of chips. They also start a rookie and some guy named Gueye ( sophomore? Guy played 70 min last year in 6 games total ).

Like, we are only team on East that actually tries to win for play in, yet only time i'm confident they will win is when they face Kings, Wizards and Hornets.

Reading how injuries are to blame, to me, are mindless. Even if we are healthy, and are winning 47 games, we would still be 5th seed and second round exit team, assuming we can pass first round. But in nba no team is fully healthy. Kawhi played 30 games for Clippers this year.
Morant played less games than Banchero. Holmgren played 23 games for OKC. Porzingis, Brown, Holiday all missed whole bunch of games for Celtics.
Knicks lost Brunson until playoffs, McBride got hurt in same time and Mitchell Robinson didn't play since middle of last season , up until last 2 months.

It's nba. People are always hurt. Look at Bucks. 6th man doing cocaine, Lillard might need medical retirement, last year Middelton had to learn again how to walk, let alone play in offseason. if you watch nothing but your team, you will think they are unique in that way, but reality is different. Magic in general have roster made out of injury prone players, that's how they got and kept most of them ( Isaac, Harris, Carter) + Suggs playing style was accident waiting to happen that we all saw coming from mile away.

Main issue is roster construction. No PG on a roster from day one until finish.

The sad thing is that the capsheet was so clean going into last summer. Weltman may have set this team back 3-4 years last summer. Does anyone really trust him to fix it this summer?

[drsd]

This whole "race for play in " is mockery of competitive sports. Heat last night started 2 rookies. Some guy named Pelle Larson played 30 min.
Bulls start rookie, have 3 good players out for a season.

Counter argument:
The Heat was on a 10-game losing streak; switched up the roster, and now have won 5 straight.

Roster management???

....


Anyhow; back to the Magic. How does a team put it all together in the best offensive movement of all season (Kings) revert back to heroball ONE game later.

[drsd]

Box score thoughts:
The Magic lost fg FG% differential battle and lost the game. But that fails to explain the loss.
As, SHOCKINGLY with a 26.9% three ball line, the Magic was the better distance shooting team.

Trivia question: so when both team are bricking it up all game long, what is the most important stat?
Yes you are correct. Rebounding.

Orlando got smoked for -17 boards, which led to 6 more FGAs for the Clippers. That's the game.

[drsd]

Both teams benches combined for 20 points, each hitting 10.
What a joke. Times two.

[drsd]

It's just pure insanity how this roster was constructed. Fact that we start Corey Joseph and hope for playoffs just goes to show you how bad it is.

I am still baffled 76 games in why the Magic signed a 4th PG as Mr #15. Orlando needed a SF or combo-forward.
Expecting da Silva to play well was insane, and the Magic needed #15 to replace Ingles' slot.

Now Joseph is expected to step-up to guide the team to a 5-1 closeout to get to a parity level of 41-41.

WePark failed.


I can't believe I am gonna type these words: when does Anthony return?

[ORLMagicGirl15]

Some of y’all need this season to end for your own mental health.

[ORLMagicGirl15]

Imagine trying to ignore the most obvious and clear factor driving our poor record? Injuries are all we will think about when we look back at this season. Ignoring it now is just begging to get clowned with poor takes.

Again... they're 15-20 in the 35 games Paolo and Franz have played together.

So, let’s trade both of them because they are clearly the problem. Let’s not watch the game and look at the box score and see if other players decided to show up in those games.

[Husky1]

There's basically three players I'd be upset if they were traded and everyone else can just hit the bricks.

But beyond all that, Mosley definitely needs to be fired and they need to hire someone who can/will actually get Paolo and Franz to try and do stuff that isn't your turn, my turn spam isolations.

Mosley’s out of his league. That’s become extraordinarily clear. But they can surround him with better assistants and his effect is minimized. Players seem to like him. I’m not sure that matters.

Agree though - fire everyone not named Paolo, Franz & Suggs to the moon. I’d love to keep Isaac but they won’t **** play him more than 10-14 mins a game. And this colossal DIPSHÍT of a GM signed him to a LTC. It defies logic.

Ownership made them offer that deal is the logical reasoning. He is a conservative influencer and that jives extremely well with the ownership extremely conservative ideology. There is no other reason you would sign a guy that is unreliable and limited and missed significant time for 5 years.

What about the WCJ extension then? Your giving Weltman too much credit. He has **** destroyed this roster and its forseeable future with mind boggling dumb extensions and draft picks.

[Skybox]

Mosley’s out of his league. That’s become extraordinarily clear. But they can surround him with better assistants and his effect is minimized. Players seem to like him. I’m not sure that matters.

Agree though - fire everyone not named Paolo, Franz & Suggs to the moon. I’d love to keep Isaac but they won’t **** play him more than 10-14 mins a game. And this colossal DIPSHÍT of a GM signed him to a LTC. It defies logic.

Ownership made them offer that deal is the logical reasoning. He is a conservative influencer and that jives extremely well with the ownership extremely conservative ideology. There is no other reason you would sign a guy that is unreliable and limited and missed significant time for 5 years.

What about the WCJ extension then? Your giving Weltman too much credit. He has **** destroyed this roster and its forseeable future with mind boggling dumb extensions and draft picks.

Weltman has done a bad job, specifically in the last couple years. As theLead said earlier, the books were so clean going into last summer...maybe best financial and young talent position in the league...absolutely on the launch pad to own the summer - and they just threw dumb extensions around like candy. There's no religious/political or U or Michigan tin foil crap going on...he just assembled a mish mash of talent rather than a winning team concept. He has been cowardly dealing with other GM's and "Daring" on draft night, not telling the world that Paolo was the target (why?) and selecting a PG who is not a PG and then reaching for Jett despite every mock having him 10 spots back.

I give him credit for setting the books and contracts up for a summer home run the last two summers...but he whiffed both times and now he's facing a much tougher road as rookie extensions kick in. If you don't understand that, for this team to make a leap, he'll have to undo things before or at the same time he's trying to add what we need, then you're deluding yourself or just not cognizant of how every other serious roster in the league is built.

On top of that, Mose is starting to look like the Cole Anthony of coaches. Loved by all around him, great guy to chop it up with but maybe just not that good. I hate this direction, but it's getting harder to blame two young stars putting up 25 ppg each for playing the wrong way. These aren't uncontrollable veteran Iversons - they need to keep learning.

[yoyojw17]

Salary distribution :

Zubac $11,8M
Powell $19M
Derrick Jones $ 9M

Those are 3 starters along 2 star players = $40M

compared to:
Isaac $25M
KCP $21M

Carter $12M
Wagner (M) $11M
Goga $9 M


KCP and JI make more money than Zubac , Powell and Derrick Jones combined. Carter , Wagner and Goga add another $32M in books.

So total $78M spent on 4 centers and 1 shooting guard. 3 /4 players aren't starting level material in nba, you can argue KCP can only start only on teams with star ball handlers.
Goga and Isaac can't even play together, neither can Goga and Mortiz, nor Carter and Goga.

It's just pure insanity how this roster was constructed. Fact that we start Corey Joseph and hope for playoffs just goes to show you how bad it is.


This whole "race for play in " is mockery of competitive sports. Heat last night started 2 rookies. Some guy named Pelle Larson played 30 min.
Bulls start rookie, have 3 good players out for a season.
Hawks traded Hunter and Bogdanovic for fat Niang, Levert and bag of chips. They also start a rookie and some guy named Gueye ( sophomore? Guy played 70 min last year in 6 games total ).

Like, we are only team on East that actually tries to win for play in, yet only time i'm confident they will win is when they face Kings, Wizards and Hornets.

Reading how injuries are to blame, to me, are mindless. Even if we are healthy, and are winning 47 games, we would still be 5th seed and second round exit team, assuming we can pass first round. But in nba no team is fully healthy. Kawhi played 30 games for Clippers this year.
Morant played less games than Banchero. Holmgren played 23 games for OKC. Porzingis, Brown, Holiday all missed whole bunch of games for Celtics.
Knicks lost Brunson until playoffs, McBride got hurt in same time and Mitchell Robinson didn't play since middle of last season , up until last 2 months.

It's nba. People are always hurt. Look at Bucks. 6th man doing cocaine, Lillard might need medical retirement, last year Middelton had to learn again how to walk, let alone play in offseason. if you watch nothing but your team, you will think they are unique in that way, but reality is different. Magic in general have roster made out of injury prone players, that's how they got and kept most of them ( Isaac, Harris, Carter) + Suggs playing style was accident waiting to happen that we all saw coming from mile away.

Main issue is roster construction. No PG on a roster from day one until finish.

It was stated that some of these contracts that we resigned were needed to facilitate future trades because of the fact that we wanted to maintain significant trade flexibility by having multiple contracts to have options in the future. And you are comparing newly signed contracts to past contracts other than Derrick Jones Jr. And we all know how the NBA landscape has changed.zubac just signed a 19-20 million dollar 3 year extension ... And it is great that he is outplaying that contract.

One significant difference between the two teams that are led by two stars.... The clippers are being led by two well season vets.... And not two young up and coming stars that are still trying to figure out what they can and can't do as of now.... And see what they are growing into. The clippers have 2 vet leaders.... Players that know who they are what they can do.... And the experience to go out and accomplish things on their own. Now... Everyone has to just fill in.

Yeah ... I get the point guard needs.... And I do agree that we need one in the team. And one of the reasons could be because our stars are still green and can go off course and get tunnel visioned. They can score... And in varieties of ways but they can get in a iso mode that kills the team play. Hero ball gets engaged while our supporting players begin to shrink. When Paolo went out... Others rose to the occasion .... To fill the gap.... And successes continue.... When both Paolo and Franz were out.... Leaving just Jalen ... That gap became too big. And now we are trying to put ish together but in the heat of the game.... Our young stars are like... "Well no one else is doing anything... I got this" *clank* as leaders.... I don't think they are there yet ... And that's fine for two 22ish year olds ... For now. Experience is experience.

But at the end of the day ... If you are always being doubled and tripled teamed .... Player movement and ball movement is always possible even without a regular point guard. And I believe Franz and Paolo will figure it out... And that their is more than just their pass that should lead to a score... Hockey passes are great too. Hahah

We got beaten by experience and composure last night... That's for sure.

[basketballRob]

Pretty silly to say this coming off a 47 win season.

And then you have Jett, who is one of the guys theoretically they should be trying to develop, isn't even playing at all lol.

The 4 best players are still on rookie contracts. AB, Suggs, Paolo, and Franz.

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So what?

I just think they are asking Franz and Paolo to do way too much. It'll probably benefit them in the future when they have a more efficient offense. Also, they've surrounded them with players who are still developing. If they were serious about winning, we'd have a bunch of 25-30 year old players to fill in the roster.

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[pepe1991]

The 4 best players are still on rookie contracts. AB, Suggs, Paolo, and Franz.

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So what?

I just think they are asking Franz and Paolo to do way too much. It'll probably benefit them in the future when they have a more efficient offense. Also, they've surrounded them with players who are still developing. If they were serious about winning, we'd have a bunch of 25-30 year old players to fill in the roster.

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You mean:

Starting PG: 33 years old
starting SG: 32 years old
Starting C : 26 years old

backup PG ( Cole) 25 years old
backup SG: 31 years old
Backup PF: 27 years old / one with ACL tear - 28 years old
backup C : 26 years old

ON entire roster only Black is really young ( 21) and plays in rotation. Jett Howard doesn't even play.

Banchero turns 23 at start of next year. Suggs and Franz will be 24 before 2025-26 starts.

This roster isn't that young.

For example, on Rockets roster 4 key roster peaces are younger than Suggs/Franz : Amen Thompson, Segun, Green and Jabari + Tari who is their age (23). Yet they are on pace for 53-54 wins. On West. On East, that would be pace for 58-61 wins.

OKC starting 5 age:
PG: 26
SG: 25
SF: 23
PF: 22
C: 26

record: 63-12


What really happened to Orlando this year? Weltman overvalued roster and banked on continuity. Like for most teams, continuity didn't take them that far. Playing style that is taxing on body and mentally challenging, that requires outworking even worst teams on every play just to win leads to many injuries.
For almost whole year our team looks like Tbis post- Rose ACL tear Bulls. Just squeezing life out of every starter to get to .500, and make it to playoffs, with starters looking dead tired every 4th quarter. As nobody could shoot ( another similarity) asking your best players to go head- first into brick walls just to get points on board. And surprise, surprise. People in such settings get serious injuries. Damn , who could ever predict that?

[Bergmaniac]

Pretty bad loss, I expected the offense to struggle because the Clippers are really good defensively and clamped us down in the first game, but this was still quite disappointing. So many bricks, so many bad turnovers mostly from Paolo. We wasted a very good defensive performance yet again.

Anyhow; back to the Magic. How does a team put it all together in the best offensive movement of all season (Kings) revert back to heroball ONE game later.

it's a lot easier to have ball movement against bad defensive teams. The top defensive teams know how to bait and force teams into heroball, especially young teams like ours.

The injury argument is pretty absurd to me. Almost every team gets plenty of injuries during the regular season these days and has to deal with it. If anything last season was more of a fluke injurywise than this one, we had Paolo, Franz, Suggs and Mo all play 72+ games, Cole who was supposed to be our 6th man at the start of the season played 81 games after missing significant time in every season of his career until then. And every other playoff team in the East had to deal with a lot more injuries to their top players.

This year obviously it was tough being without both Paolo and Franz for a stretch, but we have had both of them back for a while and have been mostly bad during this stretch. Losing Suggs and Mo is obviously a problem, but good teams find a way to deal with things like this.

[JoshuaPotter]

Yeah i'm always down for a good Weltman bashing....

Short term though guys, even though it's also just one game. Paolo + Franz need to shoot the ball better from 3 overall. You can't have your 1/2 punch going that abysmall from 3-ball.

I'm actually not that upset. Clippers are a good to great team and I think would be better then us if on the east coast easy peasy.

Things I liked
Black had windows he was assertive.
We played great defense.

[Knightro]

Imagine trying to ignore the most obvious and clear factor driving our poor record? Injuries are all we will think about when we look back at this season. Ignoring it now is just begging to get clowned with poor takes.

Again... they're 15-20 in the 35 games Paolo and Franz have played together.

So, let’s trade both of them because they are clearly the problem. Let’s not watch the game and look at the box score and see if other players decided to show up in those games.

I'm genuinely sick of this sort of nonsense.

This season is going poorly. People are allowed to be frustrated. People are allowed to be critical, especially of the best players on the roster.

This whole "WELL MAYBE THEY SHOULD JUST TRADE THIS YOUNG PLAYER IF YOU ARE THAT UNHAPPY WITH THEM" stuff (and that's a paraphrased quote, not a direct quote obviously) is really unhelpful to the overall discussion.

[Knightro]

The excuse making for what, to date, has been a spectacular failure of a season relative to expectations coming in is absolutely off the charts.