Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts 17.0 The Least Random

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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts 17.0 The Least Random 

Post#301 » by youngcrev » Sat Mar 29, 2025 1:34 pm

psman2 wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:He's a very good coach who has gotten more out of that team offensively than you'd expect given Ja's struggles both on the floor and with injuries. Maybe something weird going on behind the scenes but seems very bad to me


Our offense this year is Tuomas Lisalo's, who is taking over as head coach. Taylor has had some good and bad years of offensive efficiency here. I was thinking this might happen after another unsuccessful playoff run but a little surprised with this timing. Hopefully Lisalo has some more wrinkles he can implement to make our team run even better on offense, but at the end of the day without Ja playing like a star we are in trouble this year at least.

Memphis this offseason doesn't have a lot of avenues open to improve their roster with the JJJ renegotiate plan besides internal growth. So a coaching change was one of the few options open to try to improve next season. I would have preferred to ride out the season but don't have a big problem with making this move now if they feel like it was going to happen regardless in a few months. Evaluate Lisalo for the permanent gig and then make a decision.


So do you think this was like an internal power struggle thing rather than something nefarious?

From the outside looking in the whole thing seems insane. But if the organization views Lisalo as the mastermind behind the scenes (their offense has no business being as good as they've been with their talent IMO), and there was some internal rift, this could make sense, particularly with the other assistants following him out the door.
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Post#302 » by babyjax13 » Mon Mar 31, 2025 6:39 am

Kind of wondering if there is a way to get Durant to Cleveland. Was thinking something like...


CLE trades: Hunter, Allen, Okoro, Tyson, 2031 CLE 1st
in: Durant

PHX trades: Durant
in: Hunter, Allen, Tyson, 2nd, 2031 CLE 1st

Team X trades: 2nd?
in: Okoro


Mobley
Wade
Durant
Mitchell
Garland

feels like a real contender?

Might not be the best option for Phoenix, but they would end up with a very good center + a future pick to deal + a rotation forward and a recently drafted player.
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts 17.0 The Least Random 

Post#303 » by jayjaysee » Mon Mar 31, 2025 11:45 pm

How bad is..

Klay, Gafford, Naji, Hardy, 2026+2026 Sac firsts to Phoenix
KD to Sac
Jonas to “Charlotte”
Lavine to Dallas
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Post#304 » by babyjax13 » Tue Apr 1, 2025 1:24 am

jayjaysee wrote:How bad is..

Klay, Gafford, Naji, Hardy, 2026+2026 Sac firsts to Phoenix
KD to Sac
Jonas to “Charlotte”
Lavine to Dallas


Struggling to see the exact breakdown. Is it supposed to be:

DAL out: Klay, Gafford, Naji, Hardy
in: LaVine

SAC out: LaVine, Valanciunas 2026 SAC 1st
in: Durant

PHX out: Durant
in: Klay, Gafford, Naji, Hardy, 2026 SAC 1st

Team X in: Valanciunas
out: fake 2nd

?

I think Dallas and Sacramento probably both owe a bit to Phoenix, and the third team is owed something, too.
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Post#305 » by Godaddycurse » Tue Apr 1, 2025 1:30 am

babyjax13 wrote:Kind of wondering if there is a way to get Durant to Cleveland. Was thinking something like...


CLE trades: Hunter, Allen, Okoro, Tyson, 2031 CLE 1st
in: Durant

PHX trades: Durant
in: Hunter, Allen, Tyson, 2nd, 2031 CLE 1st

Team X trades: 2nd?
in: Okoro


Mobley
Wade
Durant
Mitchell
Garland

feels like a real contender?

Might not be the best option for Phoenix, but they would end up with a very good center + a future pick to deal + a rotation forward and a recently drafted player.


pretty sure cleveland cant aggregate. they are 300k from teh 2nd apron currently with only a 10 man roster
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts 17.0 The Least Random 

Post#306 » by jayjaysee » Tue Apr 1, 2025 1:41 am

babyjax13 wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:How bad is..

Klay, Gafford, Naji, Hardy, 2026+2026 Sac firsts to Phoenix
KD to Sac
Jonas to “Charlotte”
Lavine to Dallas


Struggling to see the exact breakdown. Is it supposed to be:

DAL out: Klay, Gafford, Naji, Hardy
in: LaVine

SAC out: LaVine, Valanciunas 2026 SAC 1st
in: Durant

PHX out: Durant
in: Klay, Gafford, Naji, Hardy, 2026 SAC 1st

Team X in: Valanciunas
out: fake 2nd

?

I think Dallas and Sacramento probably both owe a bit to Phoenix, and the third team is owed something, too.


That’s fair. I do think some team would give up their MLE for Jonas though.

And definitely was a typo on my part (2026+2028 firsts), I had LaVine+two firsts for Durant, so Phoenix gets their two firsts.

But maybe Dallas needs to help pay here
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts 17.0 The Least Random 

Post#307 » by babyjax13 » Tue Apr 1, 2025 1:44 am

jayjaysee wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:How bad is..

Klay, Gafford, Naji, Hardy, 2026+2026 Sac firsts to Phoenix
KD to Sac
Jonas to “Charlotte”
Lavine to Dallas


Struggling to see the exact breakdown. Is it supposed to be:

DAL out: Klay, Gafford, Naji, Hardy
in: LaVine

SAC out: LaVine, Valanciunas 2026 SAC 1st
in: Durant

PHX out: Durant
in: Klay, Gafford, Naji, Hardy, 2026 SAC 1st

Team X in: Valanciunas
out: fake 2nd

?

I think Dallas and Sacramento probably both owe a bit to Phoenix, and the third team is owed something, too.


That’s fair. I do think some team would give up their MLE for Jonas though.

And definitely was a typo on my part (2026+2028 firsts), I had LaVine+two firsts for Durant, so Phoenix gets their two firsts.

But maybe Dallas needs to help pay here

I'm not quite sure what the right balance is, tbh. Maybe a swap of Dallas' 2025 1st for the Cleveland 2025 1st Phoenix has (assuming the picks stay at 12 and 29 or something like 17 and 29)?
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts 17.0 The Least Random 

Post#308 » by NYG » Tue Apr 1, 2025 1:47 am

R.J. Barrett and Gradey Dick to Utah

Jakob Poeltl, John Collins, 7th and 20th to Sacramento

Jonas Valanciunas and Domantas Sabonis to Toronto
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Post#309 » by babyjax13 » Tue Apr 1, 2025 1:50 am

NYG wrote:R.J. Barrett and Gradey Dick to Utah

Jakob Poeltl, John Collins, 7th and 20th to Sacramento

Jonas Valanciunas and Domantas Sabonis to Toronto

I'd give Toronto a second round pick just for them to never offer RJ Barrett in a hypothetical deal to us.
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Post#310 » by Godaddycurse » Tue Apr 1, 2025 1:59 am

NYG wrote:R.J. Barrett and Gradey Dick to Utah

Jakob Poeltl, John Collins, 7th and 20th to Sacramento

Jonas Valanciunas and Domantas Sabonis to Toronto


nah we need poeltl for defense. not enough touches available for sabonis between Ingram/Barnes/IQ either
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Post#311 » by jbk1234 » Tue Apr 1, 2025 2:28 am

babyjax13 wrote:Kind of wondering if there is a way to get Durant to Cleveland. Was thinking something like...


CLE trades: Hunter, Allen, Okoro, Tyson, 2031 CLE 1st
in: Durant

PHX trades: Durant
in: Hunter, Allen, Tyson, 2nd, 2031 CLE 1st

Team X trades: 2nd?
in: Okoro


Mobley
Wade
Durant
Mitchell
Garland

feels like a real contender?

Might not be the best option for Phoenix, but they would end up with a very good center + a future pick to deal + a rotation forward and a recently drafted player.


The Cavs are further away from contention after this trade than they currently are with the No. 1 seed in the ECF. Allen is an important part of this team.
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Post#312 » by jayjaysee » Tue Apr 1, 2025 2:58 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Struggling to see the exact breakdown. Is it supposed to be:

DAL out: Klay, Gafford, Naji, Hardy
in: LaVine

SAC out: LaVine, Valanciunas 2026 SAC 1st
in: Durant

PHX out: Durant
in: Klay, Gafford, Naji, Hardy, 2026 SAC 1st

Team X in: Valanciunas
out: fake 2nd

?

I think Dallas and Sacramento probably both owe a bit to Phoenix, and the third team is owed something, too.


That’s fair. I do think some team would give up their MLE for Jonas though.

And definitely was a typo on my part (2026+2028 firsts), I had LaVine+two firsts for Durant, so Phoenix gets their two firsts.

But maybe Dallas needs to help pay here

I'm not quite sure what the right balance is, tbh. Maybe a swap of Dallas' 2025 1st for the Cleveland 2025 1st Phoenix has (assuming the picks stay at 12 and 29 or something like 17 and 29)?


I wonder if you could make it..

Gafford, Klay, Murray, Hardy, Dallas first to Phoenix
Jonas to whatever fourth team will take him
KD and Naji to Sac
Lavine and a heavily protected 2026 Sac first (say top 18, top 14, 12, 10, seconds?) to Dallas

Sac doesn’t trade any unprotected future pick, but does lose Murray. Naji comes in as a cheap 25mpg piece..

Phoenix gets Murray and a pick likely in the early teens because they aren’t able to keep Dallas out of the play-in.. Murray feels like one of the better pieces Phoenix could get here?

Dallas delays their draft asset / probably worsens it. and brings in a scorer to get through the regular season..
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Post#313 » by jayjaysee » Tue Apr 1, 2025 3:01 pm

babyjax13 wrote:Kind of wondering if there is a way to get Durant to Cleveland. Was thinking something like...


CLE trades: Hunter, Allen, Okoro, Tyson, 2031 CLE 1st
in: Durant

PHX trades: Durant
in: Hunter, Allen, Tyson, 2nd, 2031 CLE 1st

Team X trades: 2nd?
in: Okoro


Mobley
Wade
Durant
Mitchell
Garland

feels like a real contender?

Might not be the best option for Phoenix, but they would end up with a very good center + a future pick to deal + a rotation forward and a recently drafted player.


I think Phoenix jumps at that, but don’t really see it for Cleveland.

Even without the 2031 first, I’m not sure it’s actually worth changing their timeline like that. They should win 65 games this season..
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Post#314 » by Mavrelous » Tue Apr 1, 2025 3:58 pm

babyjax13 wrote:Kind of wondering if there is a way to get Durant to Cleveland. Was thinking something like...


CLE trades: Hunter, Allen, Okoro, Tyson, 2031 CLE 1st
in: Durant

PHX trades: Durant
in: Hunter, Allen, Tyson, 2nd, 2031 CLE 1st

Team X trades: 2nd?
in: Okoro


Mobley
Wade
Durant
Mitchell
Garland

feels like a real contender?

Might not be the best option for Phoenix, but they would end up with a very good center + a future pick to deal + a rotation forward and a recently drafted player.


If Cavs disappoint in the PO again, they can give this a look, but w/o the pick, right now, they don't consider this.
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts 17.0 The Least Random 

Post#315 » by jayjaysee » Tue Apr 1, 2025 6:44 pm

Not good, but random fun? Maybe missed on value.. And kind of depends on what kind of contract Bridges can command, what contract Det would pay him, etc. but seems like a good fit to me…


Bridges to Det (Harris, Simone, 2025 2nd, 2026 first, 2028 first out)

Lonzo, Jalen, Det 2028 first to NY (Bridges out)

Tobias, Simone (TPE or MLE), 2025 Toronto 2nd, and Det 2026 first to Chicago (Lonzo and Jalen out)

Det sits on 15 mil cap space to hopefully renegotiate and extend Bridges in December. Can trade for someone into roomMLE and finish roster at that point? But assuming Bridges takes the 15 mil and gives them a 4-5 mil a year discount on future seasons, seems worth it.

NY gets some good defenders, on good two year contracts, and trusts in KAT/Brunson offense. Feel like two good fits with the current Knicks roster.

Chicago gets an early 2nd and a decent projected first for two of their young vets they don’t really want to trade? Take on some extra expiring salary in what should be a tanking season.
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Post#316 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Apr 2, 2025 5:11 pm

so Shams says its done--Taylor accepting arbitration decision giving the team to Lore/Arod.
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Post#317 » by oldncreaky » Wed Apr 2, 2025 6:29 pm

jayjaysee wrote:Not good, but random fun? Maybe missed on value.. And kind of depends on what kind of contract Bridges can command, what contract Det would pay him, etc. but seems like a good fit to me…


Bridges to Det (Harris, Simone, 2025 2nd, 2026 first, 2028 first out)

Lonzo, Jalen, Det 2028 first to NY (Bridges out)

Tobias, Simone (TPE or MLE), 2025 Toronto 2nd, and Det 2026 first to Chicago (Lonzo and Jalen out)

Det sits on 15 mil cap space to hopefully renegotiate and extend Bridges in December. Can trade for someone into roomMLE and finish roster at that point? But assuming Bridges takes the 15 mil and gives them a 4-5 mil a year discount on future seasons, seems worth it.

NY gets some good defenders, on good two year contracts, and trusts in KAT/Brunson offense. Feel like two good fits with the current Knicks roster.

Chicago gets an early 2nd and a decent projected first for two of their young vets they don’t really want to trade? Take on some extra expiring salary in what should be a tanking season.


With the caveat that a surprising play-off run could change my mind . . . I don't think DET is nearly far enough long in its development to be offering up 2 FRPs for a player like Bridges who tops out as a 3rd/4th player on a contender. I know what NYK paid for Bridges, but that sunk cost is irrelevant to the Pistons, and much of his role as a lead perimeter defender is already filled by usar.

The good news for DET is that Cade has emerged as a legit foundational star, and we've got quite a lot of young talent to put around him. DET's next 15 months or so will be defined by the decisions of if/when/price of extending talented players Ivey/Duren/Thompson -- and getting these decision right will basically determine whether DET can become a contender or just bob along in the middle of the EC. Does DET extend early, and try and get a discount, but risk overpaying 1, 2 or 3 guys? Do they wait as long as possible to evaluate the youngsters, which carries the risk of the team getting too expensive too soon? With Cade seemingly locked in to 30% of the cap, how much do they devote to the other starters, and how much to the bench vets? Can they thread the needle by using the space they have the next 2 seasons to lock in Ivey and/or Duren at flat or declining contracts?

If DET locks in extensions paying a few of their recent high picks significant money, they'll need a regular flow of mid-to-late FRPs to maintain an affordable roster; if extensions don't work out one way or another, they'll still be looking for talent and might be bouncing in and out of the lottery. In either situation, they need their FRPs and I just can't see the case for consolidating assets for Bridges at this time.
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts 17.0 The Least Random 

Post#318 » by jayjaysee » Wed Apr 2, 2025 8:36 pm

oldncreaky wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:Not good, but random fun? Maybe missed on value.. And kind of depends on what kind of contract Bridges can command, what contract Det would pay him, etc. but seems like a good fit to me…


Bridges to Det (Harris, Simone, 2025 2nd, 2026 first, 2028 first out)

Lonzo, Jalen, Det 2028 first to NY (Bridges out)

Tobias, Simone (TPE or MLE), 2025 Toronto 2nd, and Det 2026 first to Chicago (Lonzo and Jalen out)

Det sits on 15 mil cap space to hopefully renegotiate and extend Bridges in December. Can trade for someone into roomMLE and finish roster at that point? But assuming Bridges takes the 15 mil and gives them a 4-5 mil a year discount on future seasons, seems worth it.

NY gets some good defenders, on good two year contracts, and trusts in KAT/Brunson offense. Feel like two good fits with the current Knicks roster.

Chicago gets an early 2nd and a decent projected first for two of their young vets they don’t really want to trade? Take on some extra expiring salary in what should be a tanking season.


With the caveat that a surprising play-off run could change my mind . . . I don't think DET is nearly far enough long in its development to be offering up 2 FRPs for a player like Bridges who tops out as a 3rd/4th player on a contender. I know what NYK paid for Bridges, but that sunk cost is irrelevant to the Pistons, and much of his role as a lead perimeter defender is already filled by usar.

The good news for DET is that Cade has emerged as a legit foundational star, and we've got quite a lot of young talent to put around him. DET's next 15 months or so will be defined by the decisions of if/when/price of extending talented players Ivey/Duren/Thompson -- and getting these decision right will basically determine whether DET can become a contender or just bob along in the middle of the EC. Does DET extend early, and try and get a discount, but risk overpaying 1, 2 or 3 guys? Do they wait as long as possible to evaluate the youngsters, which carries the risk of the team getting too expensive too soon? With Cade seemingly locked in to 30% of the cap, how much do they devote to the other starters, and how much to the bench vets? Can they thread the needle by using the space they have the next 2 seasons to lock in Ivey and/or Duren at flat or declining contracts?

If DET locks in extensions paying a few of their recent high picks significant money, they'll need a regular flow of mid-to-late FRPs to maintain an affordable roster; if extensions don't work out one way or another, they'll still be looking for talent and might be bouncing in and out of the lottery. In either situation, they need their FRPs and I just can't see the case for consolidating assets for Bridges at this time.


I don’t disagree Bridges is 3rd/4th best player (3rd if you have two true stars, fourth if not)

I do disagree on Det not being ready for the addition though.

But I don’t think bridges was ever worth what NY paid…

Just see him as a really good fitting floor raiser while the team hopes Thompson or Ivey develop. The tank is over either way though as long as Cade is healthy and playing..

If in two years the team needs to go looking for a star to pair with Cade? A renegotiate and extended Bridges should be another valuable contract and hold value, at least as much as what will be the one first Detroit owns at that point.
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts 17.0 The Least Random 

Post#319 » by Godaddycurse » Thu Apr 3, 2025 4:47 am

jayjaysee wrote:
I don’t disagree Bridges is 3rd/4th best player (3rd if you have two true stars, fourth if not)

I do disagree on Det not being ready for the addition though.

But I don’t think bridges was ever worth what NY paid…

Just see him as a really good fitting floor raiser while the team hopes Thompson or Ivey develop. The tank is over either way though as long as Cade is healthy and playing..

If in two years the team needs to go looking for a star to pair with Cade? A renegotiate and extended Bridges should be another valuable contract and hold value, at least as much as what will be the one first Detroit owns at that point.


What contract # are we talking about for bridges? Im skeptical he wants to extend in Detroit if he needs to give back money in future years as you imply
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts 17.0 The Least Random 

Post#320 » by jayjaysee » Thu Apr 3, 2025 10:42 am

Godaddycurse wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:
I don’t disagree Bridges is 3rd/4th best player (3rd if you have two true stars, fourth if not)

I do disagree on Det not being ready for the addition though.

But I don’t think bridges was ever worth what NY paid…

Just see him as a really good fitting floor raiser while the team hopes Thompson or Ivey develop. The tank is over either way though as long as Cade is healthy and playing..

If in two years the team needs to go looking for a star to pair with Cade? A renegotiate and extended Bridges should be another valuable contract and hold value, at least as much as what will be the one first Detroit owns at that point.


What contract # are we talking about for bridges? Im skeptical he wants to extend in Detroit if he needs to give back money in future years as you imply


I really don’t know what Bridges is worth. I’ve been lower on what he will get compared to most here so expect others to disagree with me?..

Renegotiated first year 40 mil (the most he can be renegotiated to, as new team can only have 10% of cap open/floor..I believe? )
40 first new year
37 second year
35 third year
33 fourth

That’s 4yr160 mil of new money? To me that feels good enough for Bridges, 22-24% of the cap range?… Is Bridges worth more than that or less?

If you think he deserves more, you can make the third year flat - which would add about 8-10 million through the declining second years. If that’s still not enough in your opinion? Add a few million to the second year, impacting the declining years as well.

If you think he’s worth less than that, you can take some money from the second year and keep the structure.

And I don’t think players will be against playing in Det with Cade/Thompson personally.

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