Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Horst Given Extension

[ReasonablySober]

I think Philly is the only team that would trade Flagg for Giannis, just doesn't make sense for everyone else unless you've got a plan with other stars joining. Also Giannis doesn't have a NTC on paper but he essentially does, the organization isn't going to send him anywhere he doesn't want to go and they won't trade him unless he asks.

He's their biggest trade piece since Kareem. They would have to do everything they can to get the best possible return. If that means sending Giannis where he doesn't want to go, so be it.

[paulpressey25]

But why would Giannis want Brooklyn? Are we just assuming another top 10 guy wants to join him there?

He doesn't have a trade kicker. They have other assets/cap space which would allow them to trade for a Giannis running mate, in addition to Cam Johnson being the ideal 3rd banana. Or they could lure a free agent to Brooklyn to play w/ Giannis.

Supposedly he said he wouldn’t mind playing for Brooklyn. That was from one of our “ESPN” sourced stories in the past year.

[BigO]

Reading the interview in today's paper with Edens, he seems to be leaning into the idea that if Lillard is back, and with the return of Portis, the Bucks have a really good team.

I don't know if he believes this or not. Hopefully not.

[BigO]

I think Philly is the only team that would trade Flagg for Giannis, just doesn't make sense for everyone else unless you've got a plan with other stars joining. Also Giannis doesn't have a NTC on paper but he essentially does, the organization isn't going to send him anywhere he doesn't want to go and they won't trade him unless he asks.

I think San Antonio, Miami, Philly, Chicago, Houston (via Phoenix), Atlanta (via Sacramento), Dallas and New Orleans would all trade the #1 pick for Giannis. You're talking about an all time top 10 talent in his prime and arguably the most impactful two way player in the world in his prime.

If not, I don't even pick up the phone. Flagg is where the convo begins for me. If not I ride it out with the best player your organization will ever have for two more years.

Jake, from State Farm, is my spokeman on this issue.

[Bernman]

Incidentally, I asked Vecenie if we'd get Flagg+, from a win now team, for Giannis. He didn't even think we'd get Flagg. (last segment)

Watch on YouTube

I think he's wrong. This is a fetishization of prospects vs. proven superstars. Brooklyn's comment of Giannis being their plan A reinforced that.

[MickeyDavis]

Nehm interviewed Edens at the Bucks charity event last night. Nothing worth posting snippets here. He didn't say anything that would make me optimistic about Dame being back this year.

"Health is everything in the NBA and we’ve been a little bit snakebit around the playoffs the last four years. Dame’s No. 1 objective, our objective for him, is to be healthy as a person. He’s an amazing basketball player, but he’s also an amazing person. We want him healthy. And so I have no idea what that means for him in the short term or long term. And you can only play the game with the people who suit up for it. We’ll get Bobby (Portis) back here in a few days."

[Matches Malone]

If you can get a Cooper Flagg+ deal for Giannis, I'd be all for it. You could really help your franchise for the next decade plus.

However, I would need to hear Giannis say he actually wants to go, and I have a hard time seeing him ask out for some reason. I think he's comfortable in Milwaukee, his family is happy, his brother Thanasis has been able to grow a brand for himself with the help of the Milwaukee media/fanbase and he's even joked about the team needing to kick him out if they want him gone. I don't think he takes his loyalty lightly and being with one team like some of his heroes probably means more to him than the average NBA player.

He means so much to the franchise and the community and if he wants to stay, I'd probably just ride it out and try to re-tool around him. Put pressure on him to recruit a little bit more.

[FrieAaron]

Reading the interview in today's paper with Edens, he seems to be leaning into the idea that if Lillard is back, and with the return of Portis, the Bucks have a really good team.

I don't know if he believes this or not. Hopefully not.

Why hopefully not? I want to see them all back and able to play so that if they fall on their face they blow it up. Lillard being out and Bobby missing over a quarter of the season possibly gives them enough to delude themselves into no major changes.

[ReasonablySober]

Incidentally, I asked Vecenie if we'd get Flagg+, from a win now team, for Giannis. He didn't even think we'd get Flagg. (last segment)

Watch on YouTube

I think he's wrong. This is a fetishization of prospects vs. proven superstars. Brooklyn's comment of Giannis being their plan A reinforced that.

Like I said earlier in the thread, I think there are only a couple teams that would consider a Flagg for Giannis trade and even then I kind of doubt it. It's just an age and contract thing. Giannis is going to be 31 next year. Flagg doesn't even turn 19 until after the season starts. You don't give up a generational prospect for any 31 year old.

[BroncoBuck]

Incidentally, I asked Vecenie if we'd get Flagg+, from a win now team, for Giannis. He didn't even think we'd get Flagg. (last segment)

Watch on YouTube

I think he's wrong. This is a fetishization of prospects vs. proven superstars. Brooklyn's comment of Giannis being their plan A reinforced that.

The salary cap disparity between the two is so massive that I might be inclined to agree with Sam. Flagg is right there on the Wemby/AD prospect tier for me.

[paulpressey25]

Incidentally, I asked Vecenie if we'd get Flagg+, from a win now team, for Giannis. He didn't even think we'd get Flagg.

I think he's wrong. This is a fetishization of prospects vs. proven superstars. Brooklyn's comment of Giannis being their plan A reinforced that.

The Cavaliers dealt Wiggins for Kevin Love. Wiggins was considered the Flagg of that draft. We can argue particulars, but that’s one measure of value of the #1 overall pick. And along with Wiggins went Anthony Bennett (#1 overall the prior year) and Thad Young.

[Bernman]

The difference now between Giannis & Flagg in terms of winning is massive. So if your timeline is now, you have to do it. Then Flagg's best case scenario is Giannis. Best player in a deal typically wins. So you take the proven guy. Toronto & Brooklyn specifically have coveted Giannis.

[WeMajor34]

Nehm interviewed Edens at the Bucks charity event last night. Nothing worth posting snippets here. He didn't say anything that would make me optimistic about Dame being back this year.

"Health is everything in the NBA and we’ve been a little bit snakebit around the playoffs the last four years. Dame’s No. 1 objective, our objective for him, is to be healthy as a person. He’s an amazing basketball player, but he’s also an amazing person. We want him healthy. And so I have no idea what that means for him in the short term or long term. And you can only play the game with the people who suit up for it. We’ll get Bobby (Portis) back here in a few days."

Reads like we'll jumping right back on the treadmill next season and expecting change to magically happen. Sure, with better health, we could have a higher seed, but this roster isn't getting any younger and the overall fit is clunky at best. Doc also isn't a good coach. Needless to say, that's an issue.

The owners can keep talking themselves into a lot of "if onlys" and "what ifs", but it won't get us anywhere. We'll be sitting in the exact same spot come next April, wondering if we'll make it past the first round.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

[Ron Swanson]

I get that the circumstances were different, but barely a decade ago, the Cavs gave up Wiggins, a guy who was just picked #1 in what was considered a historically stacked draft, for Kevin Love. That said, I do think there's probably only a few teams that would trade #1 for Giannis if they win the lottery, but at the same time there's just a stunning amount of idiocy going around in trade discussion circles because of the Luka fallout. Again, don't even bother to venture over the T&T board if you guys wanna keep your sanity. I could only take so many posts from one particularly delusional Rockets fan who seems to think that Sengun plus "a few picks" is some package that other teams need to beat.

Philly
New Orleans
Brooklyn
Toronto
San Antonio
Miami

That's probably the list of teams that'd be in play, with some more likely than others. For those of you that wanna trade him this summer, then you should probably be praying that Toronto wins the lottery, because you know that Masai couldn't help himself. He's been dreaming of Giannis for years. He'd give up the farm.

[Bernman]

The Cavaliers dealt Wiggins for Kevin Love. Wiggins was considered the Flagg of that draft. We can argue particulars, but that’s one measure of value of the #1 overall pick. And along with Wiggins went Anthony Bennett (#1 overall the prior year) and Thad Young.

It's an adequate analog. Flagg's a tier above, but Giannis is that or more above what Love was. It's a microcosm of how teams behave when they have a chance to win it all.

I can't see Philly not doing it. They sort of came around to the conclusion they're the one team who could realistically win the lotto that would probably do it, in part cuz they'd have to dump George on us. But they seemed to think we'd get little else. We need more.

If his assessment's true, then I wouldn't trade Giannis I don't think. The alternative is the our own picks from New Orleans + Zion for Giannis. I don't want to get into the Zion biz & we need a quicker ascendance by the time PDX has our picks so they're not gouging us too. Flagg would have given it.

[Matches Malone]

Really depends on who grabs that #1 pick. Like Vecenie said, a young team like Houston might have a harder time making that move vs a Brooklyn who's in a big market and seemingly always load up on picks/young talent only to use that as ammo to attract the big stars. Giannis age probably won't be as much a factor there because they know once he's gone, they'll just wait for the next crop of stars that want to play there.

[BigO]

Incidentally, I asked Vecenie if we'd get Flagg+, from a win now team, for Giannis. He didn't even think we'd get Flagg. (last segment)

Watch on YouTube

I think he's wrong. This is a fetishization of prospects vs. proven superstars. Brooklyn's comment of Giannis being their plan A reinforced that.

Like I said earlier in the thread, I think there are only a couple teams that would consider a Flagg for Giannis trade and even then I kind of doubt it. It's just an age and contract thing. Giannis is going to be 31 next year. Flagg doesn't even turn 19 until after the season starts. You don't give up a generational prospect for any 31 year old.

Up until a month ago, there were debates among the basketball gurus about whether Flagg should be number one this year or not. So Flagg has not been considered a generational talent by most.

I do think he could be a generational talent and I said that quite a while back. It is both a risk for the Bucks to trade Giannis for Flagg and a risk for the other team that does it with the Bucks.

I think there will be a lot of teams who would trade Flagg for Giannis. But the time is now. His value won't increase.

Of course, if Giannis is traded, Dame has to go too. Maybe to the same team.

[ReasonablySober]

I think there will be a lot of teams who would trade Flagg for Giannis. But the time is now. His value won't increase.

That is the elephant in the room. This is probably the last year the Bucks are going to be able to command a haul for Giannis.

[BigO]

The difference now between Giannis & Flagg in terms of winning is massive. So if your timeline is now, you have to do it. Then Flagg's best case scenario is Giannis. Best player in a deal typically wins. So you take the proven guy. Toronto & Brooklyn specifically have coveted Giannis.

This.

[jakecronus8]

The Cavaliers dealt Wiggins for Kevin Love. Wiggins was considered the Flagg of that draft. We can argue particulars, but that’s one measure of value of the #1 overall pick. And along with Wiggins went Anthony Bennett (#1 overall the prior year) and Thad Young.

It's an adequate analog. Flagg's a tier above, but Giannis is that or more above what Love was. It's a microcosm of how teams behave when they have a chance to win it all.

Based on hype I think Wiggins’ value surpasses Flagg in the moment. We know how Wiggins turned out but he was as hyped as any prospect in recent memory.