PG: Knicks vs. 76ers: Philly Cheese Steaks Tonight!

[3toheadmelo]

I don’t think anyone said we’d be on their level, just that we wouldn’t be getting our asses whooped by 30+ every time.

I’ve said before, guys like Kolek (and Huk) could’ve been playing when other players were out, it’s not just playing ahead of Cam in the rotation which is constantly changing (shortening actually) due to injuries. Brunson, Deuce, Shamet, Hart, OG, Precious, Mitch, etc. Adjust the rotation and you can find minutes for these guys.

We’re definitely getting our ass best by them every time no matter who the coach is. This team was constructed extremely poorly.

I don’t even know how you can play Kolek over Cam and Deuce who are our back court backups. Kolek isn’t even a game changer like that anyways.

We may lose, but there’s too many adjustments that Tom hasn’t attempted that another coach could at least try that may make it much more competitive.

But again, not saying you play Kolek “over” Cam or Deuce, I’m saying when injuries occur, instead of Tom shortening the rotation like he does, he should be giving Kolek and Huk some minutes.

Brunson out? Play Kolek. Cam out? Play Kolek. Deuce out? Play Kolek. Shamet out? Play Kolek. Hart out? Start Deuce, play Kolek. Mitch out? Play Huk not Sims. Precious out? Play Huk. KAT out? Play Huk. See what I mean?

Instead the adjustment Tom makes is just playing 7-8 guys. Like last playoffs when he played a 6 man rotation before giving Burks a shot.

If you’re saying we’re still going to lose to those teams then what’s the point? An L is an L no matter how much we lose by. Which goes back to my point, you need to fix the roster no matter who the coach is.


You’re basically arguing for Thibs to play unknowns like Kolek and Huk over proven vets. They not even good like that lol. And even if he made those adjustments it won’t change anything. We have a very bad bench.

[MrDollarBills]

He wasn’t right at all. Our whole team besides Brunson disappears against contenders but against the worst teams they look great.

That's not my point though. We know the team has looked awful against Boston and Cleveland. I attribute that to Tom being badly outclassed by Muzzula and Atkinson moreso than a lack of talent to compete.

Kolek being a serviceable player is what proves him right. Tom needed to give guys a shot. Wright hasn't been bad either.

It never should have come to Brunson being badly injured for him to finally lean into the team's depth.

Serious question, you think if we changed coaches our team would be on the same level as Boston, OKc and Cleveland?

I’m not even a cam Payne fan but he has one of the best net ratings on the team. There’s a reason why Thibs is playing him.

Yep. 100% do. Atkinson especially would have this group at plus 50 wins. How Tom approaches offense and defense holds this team back.

I'm not knocking Cam Payne at all though. I've never had an issue with Cam tbh, he competes hard. But we've heard all season that Tom doesn't have anyone else on the bench that can play when it wasn't true, he just wasn't utilizing anyone

[robillionaire]

Right now that long term success is 50-52 wins and 2nd round exits.

Maybe it’s the 20 consecutive years of watching dog crap talking but I’m enjoying it to the fullest. All they have to do is catch lightning in a bottle one time. Happens to other teams, could happen here one of these years, that’s enough to make it worth watching

People will regret taking stretches of 50 win teams for granted when we’re back in the cellar for another generation. We could be watching the new “90s Knicks” who never won shittu

[thebuzzardman]

We are afraid of facing the inexperienced Pistons in the 1st round and think we have a better chance against the defending champs in the 2nd round...
wow.

Yes, because the Pistons are well coached, athletic, and give a sh*t about defense. Basically the Thibs coached team kryptonite.

Meanwhile, the Bucks are getting old, rely on Giannis who can't shoot, and Doc Rivers is as hidebound as Thibs, so Thibs can actually stand toe to toe with him, since both are only slightly better than mediocre.

Pistons might sweep the Knicks.

[MrDollarBills]

No team that has a core of Brunson, KAT, OG and Bridges should be getting blown out by anyone.

[thebuzzardman]

Right now that long term success is 50-52 wins and 2nd round exits.

Maybe it’s the 20 consecutive years of watching dog crap talking but I’m enjoying it to the fullest. All they have to do is catch lightning in a bottle one time. Happens to other teams, could happen here one of these years, that’s enough to make it worth watching

People will regret taking stretches of 50 win teams for granted when we’re back in the cellar for another generation. We could be watching the new “90s Knicks” who never won shittu

I was enjoying it until half the board decided it sucked. I decided to join them.

It beats the garbage of the past 20 years, but it's realistic to acknowledge the team has a definitive ceiling based on the roster and coach.

[thebuzzardman]

No team that has a core of Brunson, KAT, OG and Bridges should be getting blown out by anyone.

Yet that happens regularly.

[MrDollarBills]

We are afraid of facing the inexperienced Pistons in the 1st round and think we have a better chance against the defending champs in the 2nd round...
wow.

Yes, because the Pistons are well coached, athletic, and give a sh*t about defense. Basically the Thibs coached team kryptonite.

Meanwhile, the Bucks are getting old, rely on Giannis who can't shoot, and Doc Rivers is as hidebound as Thibs, so Thibs can actually stand toe to toe with him, since both are only slightly better than mediocre.

Pistons might sweep the Knicks.

I don't think they'd sweep but the threat of Detroit is very real for all the reasons you mentioned

[thebuzzardman]

We are afraid of facing the inexperienced Pistons in the 1st round and think we have a better chance against the defending champs in the 2nd round...
wow.

I don't think the Knicks are capable of beating the Celtics, but to lose in the first round after having such high expectations to start the season would be deflating and humiliating. So yes, I prefer the easier match up in Milwaukee over having to face a young and hungry Pistons team.

If we are healthy, We would not lose to the Pistons in the first round.

We straight up have a better team than them, and we have many playoff battle-tested guys and one of the best playoff performers in the keague.

Tobias Harris is one of the worst playoff chokers ever. Their best guys are inexperienced.

If we lose to the Pistons in the first round then we deserve all of the consequences that come with it: trades, firings, etc.

Regular Season Series. DET leads 2-1.
Knicks. 128. Pistons. 98. Game 1. 11/1
Pistons. 120. Knicks. 111. Game 2. 12/7
Pistons. 124. Knicks. 119. Game 3. 01/13

Last game, April 10th. That'll be a Knicks loss too.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I don't really care who we play. The Celtics are obviously the best team in the East and toughest matchup, followed by the cavs. Not scared of anyone else. Some matchups are better then others but we should beat those other teams. Let the cards fall where they may

[prophet_of_rage]

No team that has a core of Brunson, KAT, OG and Bridges should be getting blown out by anyone.

Two of those four play poor defence. One of those four plays slow while the other 3 play fast. All four want/need 15+ shots.

It's the mentality that is a problem. Bridges doesn't really love being a third option. Neither does OG.

The names sound good but there are holes in the seams.

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[j4remi]

Love how he seeks out contact in the open court. He bumps the defender and they go flying so he doesn't have to worry about any fancy sht to get the bucket.

It seems to have started when PJ Tucker joined the team, before he avoided contact, now he's hitting people like he finally realized he's 240lbs.

The amount of dunks OG is getting.

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Ninth most dunks in the league this season.

[thebuzzardman]

We are afraid of facing the inexperienced Pistons in the 1st round and think we have a better chance against the defending champs in the 2nd round...
wow.

Yes, because the Pistons are well coached, athletic, and give a sh*t about defense. Basically the Thibs coached team kryptonite.

Meanwhile, the Bucks are getting old, rely on Giannis who can't shoot, and Doc Rivers is as hidebound as Thibs, so Thibs can actually stand toe to toe with him, since both are only slightly better than mediocre.

Pistons might sweep the Knicks.

I don't think they'd sweep but the threat of Detroit is very real for all the reasons you mentioned

It's a combination of Detroit getting better and Thibs can't coach against certain teams.

Detroit will come in and the Knicks will let them shoot and make dozens of 3 pointers each game.

[thebuzzardman]

No team that has a core of Brunson, KAT, OG and Bridges should be getting blown out by anyone.

Two of those four play poor defence. One of those four plays slow while the other 3 play fast. All four want/need 15+ shots.

It's the mentality that is a problem. Bridges doesn't really love being a third option. Neither does OG.

The names sound good but there are holes in the seams.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

The Knicks played fast with Brunson earlier in the year, but I realize the Becky Hammon burner account places all the Knicks faults at Brunson's feet.

Coaches countered with big wings on Brunson and the center on Hart and Thibs was completely flummoxed, so he resorted to his stars iso'ing to bail out his lack of creativity.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Kolek sets the team up better than ANYONE we have on the bench. He could easily play over Payne as the backup PG. He definitely should have played way more than he has when we have had injuries to our bench the entire season. From game one until today we have had someone injured on our bench. All three guards and both back up bigs have missed a LOT of time all season. Thibs plays the starters into the ground and ignores the bench. As dumb as it gets. He's been doing it for 5 years and people still defend this moronic approach to the game.

[j4remi]

I don't think the Knicks are capable of beating the Celtics, but to lose in the first round after having such high expectations to start the season would be deflating and humiliating. So yes, I prefer the easier match up in Milwaukee over having to face a young and hungry Pistons team.

If we are healthy, We would not lose to the Pistons in the first round.

We straight up have a better team than them, and we have many playoff battle-tested guys and one of the best playoff performers in the keague.

Tobias Harris is one of the worst playoff chokers ever. Their best guys are inexperienced.

If we lose to the Pistons in the first round then we deserve all of the consequences that come with it: trades, firings, etc.

Regular Season Series. DET leads 2-1.
Knicks. 128. Pistons. 98. Game 1. 11/1
Pistons. 120. Knicks. 111. Game 2. 12/7
Pistons. 124. Knicks. 119. Game 3. 01/13

Last game, April 10th. That'll be a Knicks loss too.

Two of those came on back-to-backs, and KAT sat out the game with regular rest. The Pistons are a good young team, but I think the Knicks smack them in five assuming everyone's healthy.

[3toheadmelo]

That's not my point though. We know the team has looked awful against Boston and Cleveland. I attribute that to Tom being badly outclassed by Muzzula and Atkinson moreso than a lack of talent to compete.

Kolek being a serviceable player is what proves him right. Tom needed to give guys a shot. Wright hasn't been bad either.

It never should have come to Brunson being badly injured for him to finally lean into the team's depth.

Serious question, you think if we changed coaches our team would be on the same level as Boston, OKc and Cleveland?

I’m not even a cam Payne fan but he has one of the best net ratings on the team. There’s a reason why Thibs is playing him.

Yep. 100% do. Atkinson especially would have this group at plus 50 wins. How Tom approaches offense and defense holds this team back.

I'm not knocking Cam Payne at all though. I've never had an issue with Cam tbh, he competes hard. But we've heard all season that Tom doesn't have anyone else on the bench that can play when it wasn't true, he just wasn't utilizing anyone

Yeah gonna have to agree to disagree. No coach is going to fix KAT’s defense unless we gave up a haul for a DPOY like Gobert. No coach is gonna fix Brunson being to small on defense. Mikal hasn’t played elite defense in years. Hart is scared to shoot 3s which is why he has been bouncing from team to team in his career. These issues with these players have been going on since before Thibs coached them.

Who was Thibs not utilizing?

[kNicksGmen]

still maybe too early to think about but just noticed pistons and bucks play each other twice in a row to end the season. feels like the 5/6 seed could come down to that.

[spree8]

We’re definitely getting our ass best by them every time no matter who the coach is. This team was constructed extremely poorly.

I don’t even know how you can play Kolek over Cam and Deuce who are our back court backups. Kolek isn’t even a game changer like that anyways.

We may lose, but there’s too many adjustments that Tom hasn’t attempted that another coach could at least try that may make it much more competitive.

But again, not saying you play Kolek “over” Cam or Deuce, I’m saying when injuries occur, instead of Tom shortening the rotation like he does, he should be giving Kolek and Huk some minutes.

Brunson out? Play Kolek. Cam out? Play Kolek. Deuce out? Play Kolek. Shamet out? Play Kolek. Hart out? Start Deuce, play Kolek. Mitch out? Play Huk not Sims. Precious out? Play Huk. KAT out? Play Huk. See what I mean?

Instead the adjustment Tom makes is just playing 7-8 guys. Like last playoffs when he played a 6 man rotation before giving Burks a shot.

If you’re saying we’re still going to lose to those teams then what’s the point? An L is an L no matter how much we lose by. Which goes back to my point, you need to fix the roster no matter who the coach is.


You’re basically arguing for Thibs to play unknowns like Kolek and Huk over proven vets. They not even good like that lol. And even if he made those adjustments it won’t change anything. We have a very bad bench.

I’m not saying we’re going to lose to those teams, I said we “may” lose, but you have to try to change your strategy to see if you can win.

I know you hate KAT and the Mikal trade, but I dunno how you can defend Thibs and act like there’s nothing he can do until the roster is completely overhauled or say no other coach can do better with the roster… I feel like that part is something you refuse to even remotely consider because you hate KAT and Mikal so much.

And no I’m not arguing to play the rookies over vets? I’m saying to play them instead of playing the starters 40+ minutes. Wouldn’t it be wise to be cautious after last year’s playoffs? Top coaches do this and succeed more often than you think, Spo, Kerr, Dag, Malone, Kenny, etc.. these guys play rookies or players our fans would consider bums (like Shamet) all the time and still win.

Kolek and Huk seemed good enough to me from day 1 to help keep the starters fresh for the playoffs. I’m not saying these guys are All-Stars in the making bro

[robillionaire]

Serious question, you think if we changed coaches our team would be on the same level as Boston, OKc and Cleveland?

I’m not even a cam Payne fan but he has one of the best net ratings on the team. There’s a reason why Thibs is playing him.

Yep. 100% do. Atkinson especially would have this group at plus 50 wins. How Tom approaches offense and defense holds this team back.

I'm not knocking Cam Payne at all though. I've never had an issue with Cam tbh, he competes hard. But we've heard all season that Tom doesn't have anyone else on the bench that can play when it wasn't true, he just wasn't utilizing anyone

Yeah gonna have to agree to disagree. No coach is going to fix KAT’s defense unless we gave up a haul for a DPOY like Gobert. No coach is gonna fix Brunson being to small on defense. Mikal hasn’t played elite defense in years. Hart is scared to shoot 3s which is why he has been bouncing from team to team in his career. These issues with these players have been going on since before Thibs coached them.

Who was Thibs not utilizing?

About the only thing I’d concede is he probably could have played the bench another 5mpg each. But I don’t think that results in extra wins. In fact given the razor thin margin for error and so many close and OT games I say we have an even worse record.

Shamet is playing more now but at the end of the day I still think he sucks, and was injured for months. last nights performance against g leaguers nonwithstanding. Anything at the guard spot would have involved Brunson playing less so…. More losses. Same with benching towns (team high +349 plus minus) for more minutes to the likes of Jericho sims or Hukporti

So yeah I don’t see these extra wins manifesting

And if I’m a betting man, by the end of these next 7 games we roll into the playoffs at 100% strength