2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 4

[Psubs]

Trading down would be a mistake. I think people here have fallen in love with various role players and some are conjuring up 2-for-1 trades where we end up with multiple role players. This isn’t the draft to do that. We already have a ton of depth, more role players isn’t moving the needle. Draft the BPA and call it a day.

It's because we can just trade a future 1st and expirings for a Brandon Ingram that's proven in the league.

Keep on trading JV, Delon Wright, CJ Miles and a 2nd pick for Marc Gasols.

I think Agbaji and RJ Barrett's stocks are way higher than when we traded for them and should be flipped for a forward, maybe Randle?

[Van_Trump]

Watch on YouTube

For some reason this guy really likes Grady Dick. Maybe because of his performance during the rising stars game?

[Clutch0z24]

See this is the thing that you're missing in the bolded part of your post Los. No one except for the idiots that run the ESPN draft hype machine geared at casuals, have ever hyped Bailey/Edgecombe/Harper on a Boozer/Dybantsa/Peterson/Flagg level.

Like honestly, that stupid article that I hated from the day it came out where Givony said 4 guys can challenge Flagg for #1, completely ruined the discourse around this draft class for the entire season.

ESPN did hyped Bailey/Edgecombe/Evans, just that fans weren't into tanking last year.
Everything they do the same, hyping the next draft.

It's funny because when you see player comps (lets use Edgecombe), you see them being compared to guys like Mathurin. I thought this draft waa loaded? Why are you shamelessly tanking just to end up with Bennidict Mathurin?

I think the only can't miss allstar in this draft is Flagg.. After that, it's anyones guess.

Player comps mean nothing in the grand scheme of things....Edgecombe possesses some elite defensive intangibles and some elite all world athletic ability....Just having them 2 things already makes his life as a pro much easier.....He can develop the other parts of his game which he needs to do....But no player at 18/19 is a finished product....You need to look at the things they can do already rather what they can't and say "What can he become if he develops this or that" ....

Same can be said for Bailey/Harper/Fears/Queen and so on....This draft class will be a good one down the road as the players develop in the NBA over time....

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

You wrote a lot for nothing. I never said this was a bad draft. The point is it’s not seen as strong as it was last year because these players are playing much better competition. I don’t think any scouts are as bullish on guys like Bailey, Edgecombe and Harper. And the same might be said next year when scouts get a better look at Boozer, Dybantsa and Peterson.

The chances of that happening are slim to none. VJ doesn't have a bag he's a role player with poor dimensions. Peterson is already cooking guys and has 6'10 WS.

I can't comment as much about Boozer and Dybantsa but looking at their data it's far stronger than that of Bailey and Harper. Is there a chance they go to college and suck sure. But I doubt it. Boozer is a big man with touch markers shooting 83% from stripe and has been great at every level. Dybantsa's more recent data has been very strong. All of these guys have elite FTr. which only Harper touched at times during various runs. They're better athletes than him. Ace is way behind in understanding how to leverage his athleticism functionally.

And we haven't talked about Quaintance who posted excellent numbers at AZST for a 17 year old who is a physical freak with a workable dribble J and passing flashes. Might be up there next year too.

You can just bring this thread up again next year if these guys are crap so there's a small very unlikely chance we'll give you your flowers.

Until they play at college and put their skills together, it is hard to compare.
You never know if Boozer is at the level of Queen.
Ian Jackson also scored 21 at the previous MacDonald's, but it doesn't mean that panned out.

Quaintance, Drake Powell, Isaiah Evans were also from prevoius MacDonald's, maybe they got looked at this year instead.
Things may change, but this draft is already very strong.

I'm not going off of McDonalds performances my man

Columbus FL '24-'25 - .689 TS%, 82.6 FT%
Boozer USA U17 - .759 TS%, 84.8 FT%
NightRydas U17 - .675 TS%, 84 FT%
NightRydas U16 - .713 TS%, 87 FT%
Columbus FL '23-'24 - .691 TS%, 83.3 FT%

I won't even dig deeper. To have a guy who can basically do what Paolo does but is a much more efficient scorer and has elite shooting markers for a big - he's a big time prospect. Doesn't look like he's gonna be the strongest defender bc lower stock rates but his offensive potential is elite. Bigs who shoot mid 80s from stripe don't come around often.

[OakleyDokely]

My current top 15:

1. C Flagg
2. D Harper
3. J Fears
4. K Maluach
5. K Jackucionis
6. K Knueppel
7. J Richardson
8. VJ Edgecombe
9. A Bailey
10. T Johnson
11. C Murray-Boyles
12. D Queen
13. T Sorber
14. C Bryant
15. A Newell

[NotMyKawhi]

My current top 15:

1. C Flagg
2. D Harper
3. J Fears
4. K Maluach
5. K Jackucionis
6. K Knueppel
7. J Richardson
8. VJ Edgecombe
9. A Bailey
10. T Johnson
11. C Murray-Boyles
12. D Queen
13. T Sorber
14. C Bryant
15. A Newell

Ace 9 lmao

Ace has the highest potential of them all.

[OakleyDokely]

My current top 15:

1. C Flagg
2. D Harper
3. J Fears
4. K Maluach
5. K Jackucionis
6. K Knueppel
7. J Richardson
8. VJ Edgecombe
9. A Bailey
10. T Johnson
11. C Murray-Boyles
12. D Queen
13. T Sorber
14. C Bryant
15. A Newell

Ace 9 lmao

Ace has the highest potential of them all.

If you draft based solely on "potential," you're going to lose a lot more than you will win.

He has a lot of warning signs that make his bust potential very high.

[Jerry Lucas]

You wrote a lot for nothing. I never said this was a bad draft. The point is it’s not seen as strong as it was last year because these players are playing much better competition. I don’t think any scouts are as bullish on guys like Bailey, Edgecombe and Harper. And the same might be said next year when scouts get a better look at Boozer, Dybantsa and Peterson.

See this is the thing that you're missing in the bolded part of your post Los. No one except for the idiots that run the ESPN draft hype machine geared at casuals, have ever hyped Bailey/Edgecombe/Harper on a Boozer/Dybantsa/Peterson/Flagg level.

Like honestly, that stupid article that I hated from the day it came out where Givony said 4 guys can challenge Flagg for #1, completely ruined the discourse around this draft class for the entire season.

ESPN did hyped Bailey/Edgecombe/Evans, just that fans weren't into tanking last year.
Everything they do the same, hyping the next draft.

You are definitely remembering this wrong Indeed. I've brought this up multiple times before, but this was Givony's very first garbage mock he made for the 2025 draft cycle, so far back it was during the 2024 draft cycle like you said. But there was no mentioning of Edgecombe or Evans in the top 4 (https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/39598715/2025-nba-mock-draft-full-two-round-projections):

1. Cooper Flagg
2. Ace Bailey
3. Khaman Maluach
4. Jalil Bethea

This was Givony's first top 4. Harper at that time he had at 6, Edgecombe at 7, Evans at 13, and Traore at 14 (the 4th guy who ended up on Givony's garbage "4 guys who can challenge Flagg for #1" article along with Bailey/Harper/Edgecombe).

The only 2 guys who have been consistently mocked in the top 5 by ESPN and never dropped out, are Flagg and Bailey. But Bailey was never seriously considered to be on Flagg's level (again if you ignore stupidity like the ESPN draft hype machine).

[NotMyKawhi]

My current top 15:

1. C Flagg
2. D Harper
3. J Fears
4. K Maluach
5. K Jackucionis
6. K Knueppel
7. J Richardson
8. VJ Edgecombe
9. A Bailey
10. T Johnson
11. C Murray-Boyles
12. D Queen
13. T Sorber
14. C Bryant
15. A Newell

Ace 9 lmao

Ace has the highest potential of them all.

If you draft based solely on "potential," you're going to lose a lot more than you will win.

He has a lot of warning signs that make his bust potential very high.

Grateful you arent the gm

6"10 SG who is an elite rebounder and shot blocker. Elite athelte. Is quick w it. Gets to his spot. Zero bust potential imo

[Buff]

It's funny because when you see player comps (lets use Edgecombe), you see them being compared to guys like Mathurin. I thought this draft waa loaded? Why are you shamelessly tanking just to end up with Bennidict Mathurin?

I think the only can't miss allstar in this draft is Flagg.. After that, it's anyones guess.

That's why they ALWAYS said next year was the year to tank. They always maintained that outside of Flagg this was a crappy draft.

Tank for Robot Players, 2050.

[DreamTeam09]

Ace 9 lmao

Ace has the highest potential of them all.

If you draft based solely on "potential," you're going to lose a lot more than you will win.

He has a lot of warning signs that make his bust potential very high.

Grateful you arent the gm

6"10 SG who is an elite rebounder and shot blocker. Elite athelte. Is quick w it. Gets to his spot. Zero bust potential imo

VJ is better than the guards infront of him too minus Harper, all those other guards will be defensive liabilities from day 1

[Indeed]

See this is the thing that you're missing in the bolded part of your post Los. No one except for the idiots that run the ESPN draft hype machine geared at casuals, have ever hyped Bailey/Edgecombe/Harper on a Boozer/Dybantsa/Peterson/Flagg level.

Like honestly, that stupid article that I hated from the day it came out where Givony said 4 guys can challenge Flagg for #1, completely ruined the discourse around this draft class for the entire season.

ESPN did hyped Bailey/Edgecombe/Evans, just that fans weren't into tanking last year.
Everything they do the same, hyping the next draft.

You are definitely remembering this wrong Indeed. I've brought this up multiple times before, but this was Givony's very first garbage mock he made for the 2025 draft cycle, so far back it was during the 2024 draft cycle like you said. But there was no mentioning of Edgecombe or Evans in the top 4 (https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/39598715/2025-nba-mock-draft-full-two-round-projections):

1. Cooper Flagg
2. Ace Bailey
3. Khaman Maluach
4. Jalil Bethea

This was Givony's first top 4. Harper at that time he had at 6, Edgecombe at 7, Evans at 13, and Traore at 14 (the 4th guy who ended up on Givony's garbage "4 guys who can challenge Flagg for #1" article along with Bailey/Harper/Edgecombe).

The only 2 guys who have been consistently mocked in the top 5 by ESPN and never dropped out, are Flagg and Bailey. But Bailey was never seriously considered to be on Flagg's level (again if you ignore stupidity like the ESPN draft hype machine).

I read this before I posted
https://www.espn.co.uk/mens-college-basketball/insider/story/_/id/39369869/utils

Jalil Bethea was ranked 6th
Isaiah Evans was ranked 7th
V.J. Edgecombe was ranked 4th

They did hype these players exactly at this time around.

Update: And this is from Reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/1b0ii4b/espn_releases_first_2025_mock/

Yes, they don't have Evans and Edgecombe that high, but Bethea.
You never know until they play college, things change easily, like Hugo Gonzalez

[Yallbecrazy]

Ace 9 lmao

Ace has the highest potential of them all.

If you draft based solely on "potential," you're going to lose a lot more than you will win.

He has a lot of warning signs that make his bust potential very high.

Grateful you arent the gm

6"10 SG who is an elite rebounder and shot blocker. Elite athelte. Is quick w it. Gets to his spot. Zero bust potential imo

Where is this elite rebounding and shot blocking you speak of?Just because they aren't weaknesses like the rest of his game doesn't make them elite or even strengths.

[arbsn]

Watch on YouTube

This draft class will have some All stars in it.....Sad we won't be getting a top pick in this one.

It’s funny how this is said every year. Same thing was being said last year.

This is completely false. Other than casuals buying too much into what the mainstream draft talking heads have to say (which is useless discourse that should be ignored), no one has ever said the 2025 draft has 3 prospects at the level of Darryn Peterson, AJ Dybantsa and Cam Boozer.

If the 2025 and 2026 draft classes were combined, the top 4 would be some combination of Boozer/Dybantsa/Peterson/Flagg in no particular order.

Because you know so much more about this draft than people who dedicate their lives to scout prospects?

Lmfao the absolute delusion of RealGM kids is off the charts

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Ace 9 lmao

Ace has the highest potential of them all.

If you draft based solely on "potential," you're going to lose a lot more than you will win.

He has a lot of warning signs that make his bust potential very high.

Grateful you arent the gm

6"10 SG who is an elite rebounder and shot blocker. Elite athelte. Is quick w it. Gets to his spot. Zero bust potential imo

Historically the only similar freshman who overcame such a poor college FT% is Brandon Ingram but I'm not seeing the same guard skills in Ace plus Ingram's college 3pt% was better.

If Ace had shot 50/40/80 I probably would see him in a better light. But the fact remains that Ace isn't really a hooper, he's just a kid who is really talented at getting jumpshots off. Unfortunately jumpshot accuracy, ability to get to rim OTD, passing, defense, etc... collectively comprise more of what's important to be a top tier player.

Ultimately jumpshooting will only get you so far. Let's say his %s improve and he also becomes passable on D over time... his handle and ability to get by guys on ball and his passing are both so weak right now, there are just way too many things that need to go perfect for Ace which makes him a poor dart.

If all the things that need to go well for him come to fruition he's still only a JB type player and JB is one of the more controversial "all stars" in the eyes of the analytics community.

[NotMyKawhi]

If you draft based solely on "potential," you're going to lose a lot more than you will win.

He has a lot of warning signs that make his bust potential very high.

Grateful you arent the gm

6"10 SG who is an elite rebounder and shot blocker. Elite athelte. Is quick w it. Gets to his spot. Zero bust potential imo

VJ is better than the guards infront of him too minus Harper, all those other guards will be defensive liabilities from day 1

VJ is small.

Ace is an elite athlete, 6'10 SG. Already an elite shot blocker for a SG. Way more defensive potential at SG.

[Jerry Lucas]

It’s funny how this is said every year. Same thing was being said last year.

This is completely false. Other than casuals buying too much into what the mainstream draft talking heads have to say (which is useless discourse that should be ignored), no one has ever said the 2025 draft has 3 prospects at the level of Darryn Peterson, AJ Dybantsa and Cam Boozer.

If the 2025 and 2026 draft classes were combined, the top 4 would be some combination of Boozer/Dybantsa/Peterson/Flagg in no particular order.

Because you know so much more about this draft than people who dedicate their lives to scout prospects?

Lmfao the absolute delusion of RealGM kids is off the charts

I honestly feel like the bozos at the ESPN draft hype machine are just paid off by the agents of all these players. It's like they never have anything overly negative to say about any of these players' future NBA outlooks. But they're always sure to shout out who the players' agents are.

Honestly just don't even get me started on ESPN. I absolutely despise their draft coverage ever since Mike Schmitz left to work in Portland's front office. The 1 thing they're still good for is that their mock drafts are more accurate than other sites in terms of who actually gets picked where.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

This is completely false. Other than casuals buying too much into what the mainstream draft talking heads have to say (which is useless discourse that should be ignored), no one has ever said the 2025 draft has 3 prospects at the level of Darryn Peterson, AJ Dybantsa and Cam Boozer.

If the 2025 and 2026 draft classes were combined, the top 4 would be some combination of Boozer/Dybantsa/Peterson/Flagg in no particular order.

Because you know so much more about this draft than people who dedicate their lives to scout prospects?

Lmfao the absolute delusion of RealGM kids is off the charts

I honestly feel like the bozos at the ESPN draft hype machine are just paid off by the agents of all these players. It's like they never have anything overly negative to say about any of these players' future NBA outlooks. But they're always sure to shout out who the players' agents are.

Honestly just don't even get me started on ESPN. I absolutely despise their draft coverage ever since Mike Schmitz left to work in Portland's front office. The 1 thing they're still good for is that their mock drafts are more accurate than other sites in terms of who actually gets picked where.

They're still better than Yahoo sports. Ever see that dystopian Krysten Peek reaction to the Grizzlies taking Edey? It was like straight out of a sci-fi movie.

Read on Twitter

[ArthurVandelay]

My current top 15:

1. C Flagg
2. D Harper
3. J Fears
4. K Maluach
5. K Jackucionis
6. K Knueppel
7. J Richardson
8. VJ Edgecombe
9. A Bailey
10. T Johnson
11. C Murray-Boyles
12. D Queen
13. T Sorber
14. C Bryant
15. A Newell

Ace 9 lmao

Ace has the highest potential of them all.

If you draft based solely on "potential," you're going to lose a lot more than you will win.

He has a lot of warning signs that make his bust potential very high.

Ace is the type of player who's future is likely going to be tied to who drafts him.

If a good developmental team gets him, he should do well. If he goes to poor developmental team, he's going to wash out. If he goes to a team that is going to prioritize wins over development, he's also likely to wash out.

He's the ultimate wild card in this draft imo.

[billy_hoyle]

Grateful you arent the gm

6"10 SG who is an elite rebounder and shot blocker. Elite athelte. Is quick w it. Gets to his spot. Zero bust potential imo

VJ is better than the guards infront of him too minus Harper, all those other guards will be defensive liabilities from day 1

VJ is small.

Ace is an elite athlete, 6'10 SG. Already an elite shot blocker for a SG. Way more defensive potential at SG.

Ace is going to be a PF/SF in the NBA.

There's no chance he's laterally quick enough to defend the perimeter against guys like Donovan Mitchell.

He likely gets stronger and plays as a jump shooting shot making PF ala KD.