T.H.T. plans

[ChettheJet]

If the Bulls entertain hopes of playoffs, not a 4th play in, next year I would like to keep THT and Tre Jones to be the 10th and 11th guys off the bench, remembering there's rookie coming in.

I would say both are looking for some kind of guaranteed money, not so much playing time and don't want to uproot the family and get traded so maybe they take a little less money.

I agree with some keep Phillips, I'm moving on from Dalen Terry and Jevon Carter, I'm trying to trade Dosunmu and any of them could be added to a Vucevic deal.

[meekrab]

There's a reason he was available for the vet minimum, dude plays YMCA ball in the NBA.

[eierluke]

I have to explain, that I'm not a big fan of THT, to me it is just a question of roster construction to have a spark of the bench in reserve (someone, who can create his own shot, not to confuse with a catch and shot guy).
There have been made some good arguments however, especially not to hurt upcoming cap space with a buy out
Priority is to resign Giddey and Jones and the probability of an attractive trade coming around to me ain't that big.
I'm in principle not a fan of forcing any trade just to do something. If nothing good realizes I'd be very comfortable to continue with the guys under contract + Giddey, Jones and our 1st rd pick. The good thing is that it seems as we don't have a bad character guy here, whom we have to get rid of.
As for the 2nd rd pick, I'd prefer to draft an Euro guy and to wait another year.

Phillips, who has only warranted 2.2 mio next season, is the only guy, who seems expandable to me.
Not sure about his defensive value, but regarding his offense: not a scorer (15.07 points per 48 min is the worst number on our roster), no 3pt range (.326 is the 2nd worst on our roster to Collins at .306) and especially not part of any passing lane (1.6 ast per 48 min is the worst number on our roster).

[dougthonus]

Why couldn’t we just waive and stretch Carter? He has a 6.8 M player option, so if he is waived in time (before the league year), that could be stretched over 3 years right? A bit under 2.3 M per year? That can provide some breathing room.

I wouldn’t worry about retaining contract pieces to trade, honestly. The likelihood of a viable trade that improves the team, given current relatively limited assets and who might reasonably be expected to be out there…. meh.

A minor thing, but there is no reason to stretch Carter if you waive him. Just take the hit now, you aren't going to do anything else with the money, you only need the roster spot.

[Infinity2152]

Why couldn’t we just waive and stretch Carter? He has a 6.8 M player option, so if he is waived in time (before the league year), that could be stretched over 3 years right? A bit under 2.3 M per year? That can provide some breathing room.

I wouldn’t worry about retaining contract pieces to trade, honestly. The likelihood of a viable trade that improves the team, given current relatively limited assets and who might reasonably be expected to be out there…. meh.

A minor thing, but there is no reason to stretch Carter if you waive him. Just take the hit now, you aren't going to do anything else with the money, you only need the roster spot.

Talk around the league about Carter, most people think Carter declines that option to go somewhere he can get some playing time. He's 29, not 35. Most NBA players don't want to play with no guaranteed future money, and another year on the Bulls would tank his value for his new contract even more.

If you were Carter, which would make more sense? Take the $6.8 mill, never play and go into free agency at 30 after three years of no playing time? Maybe looking at vet min. Or opting out, looking for a 2yr, 1 option contract $5-7 mill AAV where you can rebuild your value? More guaranteed money and a chance to play and up your value before your next contract, at 29 he may get 2 more contracts.

Carter's a decent player, but he knows he's never getting PT with Ball, Giddey, maybe Tre Jones, Ayo and White all capable of playing PG.

[eierluke]

Why couldn’t we just waive and stretch Carter? He has a 6.8 M player option, so if he is waived in time (before the league year), that could be stretched over 3 years right? A bit under 2.3 M per year? That can provide some breathing room.

I wouldn’t worry about retaining contract pieces to trade, honestly. The likelihood of a viable trade that improves the team, given current relatively limited assets and who might reasonably be expected to be out there…. meh.

A minor thing, but there is no reason to stretch Carter if you waive him. Just take the hit now, you aren't going to do anything else with the money, you only need the roster spot.

Talk around the league about Carter, most people think Carter declines that option to go somewhere he can get some playing time. He's 29, not 35. Most NBA players don't want to play with no guaranteed future money, and another year on the Bulls would tank his value for his new contract even more.

If you were Carter, which would make more sense? Take the $6.8 mill, never play and go into free agency at 30 after three years of no playing time? Maybe looking at vet min. Or opting out, looking for a 2yr, 1 option contract $5-7 mill AAV where you can rebuild your value? More guaranteed money and a chance to play and up your value before your next contract, at 29 he may get 2 more contracts.

Carter's a decent player, but he knows he's never getting PT with Ball, Giddey, maybe Tre Jones, Ayo and White all capable of playing PG.

That'd be a dream scenario - though I doubt that he does not opt in.
He takes care of the ball but ain't a playmaker nor does he drive to the basket.
He shoots .382 from 3 over his career, which is respectable, but the possibilities to play a 6'1 catch and shoot guy on a regulary basis are slim.
He would get another contract somewhere, but I doubt that he'll ever makes more than the min somewhere.
I expect him to take the save route, throwing towels for 6.8 mio/ year

[sco]

A minor thing, but there is no reason to stretch Carter if you waive him. Just take the hit now, you aren't going to do anything else with the money, you only need the roster spot.

Talk around the league about Carter, most people think Carter declines that option to go somewhere he can get some playing time. He's 29, not 35. Most NBA players don't want to play with no guaranteed future money, and another year on the Bulls would tank his value for his new contract even more.

If you were Carter, which would make more sense? Take the $6.8 mill, never play and go into free agency at 30 after three years of no playing time? Maybe looking at vet min. Or opting out, looking for a 2yr, 1 option contract $5-7 mill AAV where you can rebuild your value? More guaranteed money and a chance to play and up your value before your next contract, at 29 he may get 2 more contracts.

Carter's a decent player, but he knows he's never getting PT with Ball, Giddey, maybe Tre Jones, Ayo and White all capable of playing PG.

That'd be a dream scenario - though I doubt that he does not opt in.
He takes care of the ball but ain't a playmaker nor does he drive to the basket.
He shoots .382 from 3 over his career, which is respectable, but the possibilities to play a 6'1 catch and shoot guy on a regulary basis are slim.
He would get another contract somewhere, but I doubt that he'll ever makes more than the min somewhere.
I expect him to take the save route, throwing towels for 6.8 mio/ year

I could see a scenario where Carter's agent finds a team willing to pay him the vet min. I can't see anyone offering even close to $6.8M. That leaves the door open for a buyout at a reduced number like $3M.

I have a hard time imagining that the 2nd rounder makes the main roster...better case would be a 2-way slot. Best case we use it to be rid of Vuc in a trade (but it is essentially impossible to do that without taking back at least 1, probably 2 players back in the deal).

If somehow we free-up a roster spot, I see AK focusing on keeping Jones, who has been a great 2-way find.

[WesPeace]

I dont think Bulls would do that, cut Phillips who we need more, just to sign occasional bench spark plug.
THT can play guard or SF, but we are overcrowded there, Jones, Ayo, Ball missing. Giddey, Jones should be priority to re-sign and bring back.

THT should go to Europe..

1) For what purpose do we need Phillips, will he ever be a reliable rotation player on a winning (=>.50) team? Does he have a niche, is he already good in anything?
2) Who else on our roster can create his own shot aside from White and to a minor degree Giddey?

Phillips is at least one of few wings we have, solid size, solid on defense and young at 21. He isnt offensive threat, but I wouldnt keep THT at this stage over him. If we would be lacking guards, yes, keep THT but we are overcrowded there and we have use for wings/forwards a bit.

Anyway,as many already said, we dont have roster spot for him next season.

[dougthonus]

Talk around the league about Carter, most people think Carter declines that option to go somewhere he can get some playing time. He's 29, not 35. Most NBA players don't want to play with no guaranteed future money, and another year on the Bulls would tank his value for his new contract even more.

If you were Carter, which would make more sense? Take the $6.8 mill, never play and go into free agency at 30 after three years of no playing time? Maybe looking at vet min. Or opting out, looking for a 2yr, 1 option contract $5-7 mill AAV where you can rebuild your value? More guaranteed money and a chance to play and up your value before your next contract, at 29 he may get 2 more contracts.

Carter's a decent player, but he knows he's never getting PT with Ball, Giddey, maybe Tre Jones, Ayo and White all capable of playing PG.

If he opts out, it's good for us, so fingers crossed. I would plan for the less good for us scenario, since 95% of the time that's just how it plays out.

[dougthonus]

I could see a scenario where Carter's agent finds a team willing to pay him the vet min. I can't see anyone offering even close to $6.8M. That leaves the door open for a buyout at a reduced number like $3M.

This seems like a pretty reasonable outcome for both sides unless the Bulls want his contract to have more salary matching options or value him as a potential contributor (given his playing time even with our injuries that seems unlikely).

I have a hard time imagining that the 2nd rounder makes the main roster...better case would be a 2-way slot. Best case we use it to be rid of Vuc in a trade (but it is essentially impossible to do that without taking back at least 1, probably 2 players back in the deal).

I believe its the case that if you get a 2nd rounder and don't give them a contract for the roster that they can become an unrestricted free agent. So depending who that player is and how good they are, they may not accept a two way contract. I don't think a two way contract offer is sufficient to ensure they stay with you.

That said, it might be sufficient for the player we take depending on their situation and if they feel they have a chance to catch on somewhere else. It may also be the case that by the time we have to officially trim down the roster that there are no spots anywhere else in the league either so even if they could have gotten a contract elsewhere that by the time they are able to look that there is nothing left and thus the two way becomes the most attractive thing.

TLDR; this has a good chance of working, but isn't air tight, and hardballing someone into a two way is kind of a douchey thing to do so may have some other ramifications depending how much you care about the agent relationship.

If somehow we free-up a roster spot, I see AK focusing on keeping Jones, who has been a great 2-way find.

I think if you keep Jones, you got to find a spot to trade Ayo or Ball.

[RSP83]

He is Jordan Crawford.

[Infinity2152]

Talk around the league about Carter, most people think Carter declines that option to go somewhere he can get some playing time. He's 29, not 35. Most NBA players don't want to play with no guaranteed future money, and another year on the Bulls would tank his value for his new contract even more.

If you were Carter, which would make more sense? Take the $6.8 mill, never play and go into free agency at 30 after three years of no playing time? Maybe looking at vet min. Or opting out, looking for a 2yr, 1 option contract $5-7 mill AAV where you can rebuild your value? More guaranteed money and a chance to play and up your value before your next contract, at 29 he may get 2 more contracts.

Carter's a decent player, but he knows he's never getting PT with Ball, Giddey, maybe Tre Jones, Ayo and White all capable of playing PG.

That'd be a dream scenario - though I doubt that he does not opt in.
He takes care of the ball but ain't a playmaker nor does he drive to the basket.
He shoots .382 from 3 over his career, which is respectable, but the possibilities to play a 6'1 catch and shoot guy on a regulary basis are slim.
He would get another contract somewhere, but I doubt that he'll ever makes more than the min somewhere.
I expect him to take the save route, throwing towels for 6.8 mio/ year

I could see a scenario where Carter's agent finds a team willing to pay him the vet min. I can't see anyone offering even close to $6.8M. That leaves the door open for a buyout at a reduced number like $3M.

I have a hard time imagining that the 2nd rounder makes the main roster...better case would be a 2-way slot. Best case we use it to be rid of Vuc in a trade (but it is essentially impossible to do that without taking back at least 1, probably 2 players back in the deal).

If somehow we free-up a roster spot, I see AK focusing on keeping Jones, who has been a great 2-way find.

Buyout seems like a good compromise. Players aren't eligible for vet min without 10 years. Carter is only 29 and he's not a bad player. Give him $2-3 mill in a buyout, he could make up the difference. His career isn't washed, he just hasn't played the last two years on a team with a ton of young guards. Peace of mind and the ability to play has to be worth something, most players want to play and wasting a prime year at 29 heading into free agency is not a good idea. Who knows how much not playing for two of your prime healthy years (27, 28) feels to him? He goes to a team where he gets minutes, he could play himself into a decent contract.

He played 8 minutes/gm for us this year. His per 36 is 19pts, 5 rebounds, 5 assists, 1.3 steals, 37% from 3 at relatively high volume (12 attempts per 36 minutes). I know he's not a 36 minute player and there are some things that don't translate, but he's not a minimum player at 29 imo. Add in he's a pretty good defender, he's not nearly as bad as he's being made out to be. His VORP is 0.1, that's about average right? Assist% at 19% to a 7 TOV%. BPM% is -0.1. By almost every metric, he's an average NBA player, not a minimum one. He could be a good fit at backup on a team that runs a more half court offense, like Denver for instance.

[HomoSapien]

He's obviously very good at scoring and although he gets labeled as a black hole, he's actually a fairly good passer too. I actually kind of like him as a 9-10th man that you stick in for an offensive spark when you're struggling. As others have mentioned, we have a very full roster right now, so there's a good chance he gets squeezed out. That said, I think he's actually quietly had a good season whenever he's gotten minutes.

[League Circles]

That'd be a dream scenario - though I doubt that he does not opt in.
He takes care of the ball but ain't a playmaker nor does he drive to the basket.
He shoots .382 from 3 over his career, which is respectable, but the possibilities to play a 6'1 catch and shoot guy on a regulary basis are slim.
He would get another contract somewhere, but I doubt that he'll ever makes more than the min somewhere.
I expect him to take the save route, throwing towels for 6.8 mio/ year

I could see a scenario where Carter's agent finds a team willing to pay him the vet min. I can't see anyone offering even close to $6.8M. That leaves the door open for a buyout at a reduced number like $3M.

I have a hard time imagining that the 2nd rounder makes the main roster...better case would be a 2-way slot. Best case we use it to be rid of Vuc in a trade (but it is essentially impossible to do that without taking back at least 1, probably 2 players back in the deal).

If somehow we free-up a roster spot, I see AK focusing on keeping Jones, who has been a great 2-way find.

Buyout seems like a good compromise. Players aren't eligible for vet min without 10 years. Carter is only 29 and he's not a bad player. Give him $2-3 mill in a buyout, he could make up the difference. His career isn't washed, he just hasn't played the last two years on a team with a ton of young guards. Peace of mind and the ability to play has to be worth something, most players want to play and wasting a prime year at 29 heading into free agency is not a good idea. Who knows how much not playing for two of your prime healthy years (27, 28) feels to him? He goes to a team where he gets minutes, he could play himself into a decent contract.

He played 8 minutes/gm for us this year. His per 36 is 19pts, 5 rebounds, 5 assists, 1.3 steals, 37% from 3 at relatively high volume (12 attempts per 36 minutes). I know he's not a 36 minute player and there are some things that don't translate, but he's not a minimum player at 29 imo. Add in he's a pretty good defender, he's not nearly as bad as he's being made out to be. His VORP is 0.1, that's about average right? Assist% at 19% to a 7 TOV%. BPM% is -0.1. By almost every metric, he's an average NBA player, not a minimum one. He could be a good fit at backup on a team that runs a more half court offense, like Denver for instance.

Yeah I think Jevon is a bit underrated by Bulls fans. He played consistent minutes last year and didn't out up good numbers, but his fit with Demar-grinding was poor. He looks better this year and considering our general lack of three point shooting I'm totally fine to keep him next year if he opts in.

[HomoSapien]

Why couldn’t we just waive and stretch Carter? He has a 6.8 M player option, so if he is waived in time (before the league year), that could be stretched over 3 years right? A bit under 2.3 M per year? That can provide some breathing room.

I wouldn’t worry about retaining contract pieces to trade, honestly. The likelihood of a viable trade that improves the team, given current relatively limited assets and who might reasonably be expected to be out there…. meh.

A minor thing, but there is no reason to stretch Carter if you waive him. Just take the hit now, you aren't going to do anything else with the money, you only need the roster spot.

Talk around the league about Carter, most people think Carter declines that option to go somewhere he can get some playing time. He's 29, not 35. Most NBA players don't want to play with no guaranteed future money, and another year on the Bulls would tank his value for his new contract even more.

If you were Carter, which would make more sense? Take the $6.8 mill, never play and go into free agency at 30 after three years of no playing time? Maybe looking at vet min. Or opting out, looking for a 2yr, 1 option contract $5-7 mill AAV where you can rebuild your value? More guaranteed money and a chance to play and up your value before your next contract, at 29 he may get 2 more contracts.

Carter's a decent player, but he knows he's never getting PT with Ball, Giddey, maybe Tre Jones, Ayo and White all capable of playing PG.

People around the league are talking about JEVON Carter?

[WindyCityBorn]

I dont think Bulls would do that, cut Phillips who we need more, just to sign occasional bench spark plug.
THT can play guard or SF, but we are overcrowded there, Jones, Ayo, Ball missing. Giddey, Jones should be priority to re-sign and bring back.

THT should go to Europe..

1) For what purpose do we need Phillips, will he ever be a reliable rotation player on a winning (=>.50) team? Does he have a niche, is he already good in anything?
2) Who else on our roster can create his own shot aside from White and to a minor degree Giddey?

We need PFs more than guards. We are already too small. We need get rid of few guards for more 6’8” plus guys.

[Ccwatercraft]

I'd take THT at vet min over Patrick or Carter but we can't just remove Patrick or Carter's salary off the books. We'd have to pay some kind of asset to get rid of either, and Bulls shouldn't be giving away picks (anymore).

Bulls also need another F like Buzelis, 6' 9" or 6' 10" with high tier athleticism and motor and can just impact the game on instincts because Vuc is essentially on a 4 on 5 defensively and he plays 32 mpg and he's just going to get slower & older. And I'd really like a young center prospect to gamble on.

I would ideally cut 2 guards off this roster for a young big F and a young C, not add another guard/wing.

Why couldn’t we just waive and stretch Carter? He has a 6.8 M player option, so if he is waived in time (before the league year), that could be stretched over 3 years right? A bit under 2.3 M per year? That can provide some breathing room.

I wouldn’t worry about retaining contract pieces to trade, honestly. The likelihood of a viable trade that improves the team, given current relatively limited assets and who might reasonably be expected to be out there…. meh.

Waive or waive.and stretch. Either one clears the spot we don't need to dump assets.

[pipfan]

I think he's fine as a 15th man type
White/Ayo/Carter
Ball/Huerter/Terry
Giddy/PWill
Matas/Phillips
Vuc/Collins/Smith
#10 pick is a forward (Newell is my guy at the moment)

With this plan, no Jones return. Maybe we trade Ayo (to BRK for the #26 and cap savings-they need players and have 4 firsts-we save $ and get a late pick)

[eierluke]

A propper constructed roster should include some bench scoring. But I have to give that unless AKME trade for G.Antetokounmpo, J.Embid or A.Davis, it is going to be a transition year anyway.

[MGB8]

I would sort the roster as:

Guards (1/2s): Coby, Ayo, Carter OR Jones (prefer waiving Carter to resign Jones to similar salary; Jones more versatile).
Wings (2/3s): Ball, Huerter, Terry, THT (though he may be more a short F)
Forwards (3/4s): Giddey (*point on offense), Matas, Pat, Phillips
Bigs (4/5s): Vuc, Collins, Smith

If you keep only one of Carter or Jones, then that is 14 roster spots - the pick being #15. That is a pretty good starting point.

The issue is whether ownership would be willing to eat Carter’s salary for Jones, or for THT for that matter. But I think that keeping Carter while bringing back Jones makes zero sense - it imbalances the roster towards smaller guards, and Carter’s “3 and D, low usage, small guard” role was meant to complement a DDR-LaVine-Vuc core, makes a lot less sense with Giddey-Coby-Matas.

While dropping Phillips might make more financial sense for ownership, depth at forward isn’t great, especially with Pat being kinda injury prone (aside from any other issues).