https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2439808
Now we do a finals one
Like the last game we tracked, this match has also been tracked before by one Djoker
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2433040
Djoker wrote:dFG%: Starks 0/2, Mason 0/3, Ewing 0/2
Game 5
Plus-Minus:
Jordan ON 48:00 : +7
Jordan OFF 0:00: 0
Defensive Grade: A (great)
MJ played the full 48 minutes here and was fantastic on D. Spend a big part of the game on Magic and just gave him a super hard time. Magic scored 5 points on 2 shots including a tough contested shot and a 3-pointer but MJ forced him into several turnovers. And he played smart without fouling and made it tough for Magic to receive the ball or get into his offense. MJ also got 5 steals, two on Magic and one each on Divac, AC Green and Teagle and got 2 blocks including one from behind on Green.
With MJ as primary defender:
Magic 5 points (2/2, 0/0)
With Pippen as primary defender:
Magic 11 points (2/10, 6/6)
The Bulls' team defense did a good job limiting Magic as in Game 4. Pippen was just solid but not spectacular..[/b]
While Djoker doesn’t give the same level of detail they gave for the 93 game, this tie also looks like a positive MJ outlier by their system being the only game from the series they graded as an “A”. I’m excited to see what we find watching the same tape.
Here are the countables we’re going to use:
Spoiler:
There is a great deal more grey area here than with the creation stuff I think. Vetting and perhaps some discussion on what should be counted or not counted is welcomed. If you just want to see the numbers you can control+F for “Tally and Analysis”.
Let’s begin.
Possession 1 - 8:19
Jordan picks up Magic briefly. Magic sets up an open jumper. As it’s a quick possession picking up Magic will suffice for being considered at least the co-primary perimeter defender (Paxson is ineffective but he has some usage too I guess).
(Jordan - 1 PPD)
.
Possession 2 - 8:57
Jordan faces-off with Magic for a second. He then helps from the weakside as Grant fouls on a layup-attempt.
Possession 3 - 10:16
Jordan gets a weak IA (1) as the ball is switched to the opposite side. Jordan watches from the weakside as the Bulls are called for illegal defense. He watches from the weakside again as Teagle is forced into a miss.
Possession 4 - 11:10
MJ marks MJ who comes out to to receive the ball and throws it back to Perkins as he switches places with Magic. Jordan fouls from the weakside as he turns inside.
(Jordan - 2 PPD, 1 IPPD)
Possession 5 - 12:26
Paxson swats the ball out as he funnels Magic towards Jordan. Jordan picks up Magic after the inbound steadily backing away before Magic’s attempted skip-pass gets intercepted by his own teammate. Jordan moves to help on Divac but then hops out of the way as Divac bounces the ball off the rim and converts a putback. Was tempted to call it ineffective for essentially conceding the putback but he’s part of the reason Divac misses (intentionally or not) and that’s not his man.
(Jordan - 3 PPD)
Possession 6 - 13:05
Jordan picks up Magic again, switches off him to do some entry pass-denial, and then switches back to Magic to whom he concedes an uncontested 3.
(Jordan - 4 PPD)
Possession 7 - 14:06
Jordan watches from the paint as the Lakers evade the Bull’s backcourt pressure and Perkins airballs a jumper.
Possession 8 - 15:13
Jordan pressures Magic as the Bulls press full-court and is passed over. He remains uninvolved over the rest of the possession which ends with a Divac putback.
Possession 9 - 15:40
The Lakers break and Jordan chases getting back right as Magic turns the ball over.
Possession 10 - 15:55
Jordan picks up Magic just ahead of the key and Magic slowly backs him down. Jordan seemingly shuffles to the side so Grant can take over but Magic finds Divac free and he spins around Pippen for an easy dunk.
(Jordan - 5 PPD)
Possession 11 - 18:01
Jordan picks up Magic from around the half-court. Magic bounces it to a teammate. Magic gets the ball again with Jordan on him and throws it to the other side where Teagle hits a jumper.
(Jordan - 6 PPD)
Possession 12 - 18:43
The Lakers break and every Bull is quickly bypassed besides Paxson who does just enough to thwart a 2 v 2. Jordan chips in a little to help Chicago secure the board.
Possession 13 - 18:58
Jordan supports Grant as he presses half-court and then watches from around the key as the play ends with Teagle making a jumper.
Possession 14 - 20:16
Jordan picks Magic up from the backcourt and notches a weak IA (2) as Magic swings it to Teagle who swings it back to Magic who quickly throws it to Divac. Divac is swallowed by a double. I’d say this is the first possession he really made things hard for Magic and accordingly am deeming this possession as effective.
(Jordan - 7 PPD, 1 EPPD)
Possession 15 - 20:42
Jordan picks up Magic from half-court and closes the distance at the free-throw line. He slides for a few seconds and then moves to help as Magic drives on Pippen. Possession ends with Divac shooting an open jumper as Pippen takes too long figuring out where he needs to go. Pippen is the primary on the perimeter here but Jordan would be the secondary if I was counting that.
Possession 16 - 22:11
Jordan picks up Magic in the backcourt. Jordan gets around a Divac screen to stay on Magic at the key and Magic lobs it over to Divac by the basket: Grant arrives on time and contests well.
(Jordan - 8 PPD)
Possession 17 - 22:45
Magic breaks and Jordan tries to slow him only to be shoved to the paint when they first collide and then sent to the floor as Magic goes up the hook.
(Jordan - 9 PPD, 2 IPPD)
Possession 18 - 23:15
Possession ends early as AC Green bounces the ball off Pippen’s foot and tries to save it.
Possession 19 - 23:51
Jordan picks up Magic again and Magic throws it to the corner. Pippen doubles and the ball finds Perkins who is tripped. The ball gets to Magic on the inbound and Jordan is beaten cleanly with a spin-move as the bigger MJ wins free-throws.
(Jordan - 10 PPD, 3 IPPD)
Possession 20 - 26:09
Jordan picks up Magic and then gets around Divac to stay on Magic. Magic overthrows the pass over a jumping Jordan and the ball is turned over in short order.
(Jordan - 11 PPD, 2 EPPD)
Possession 21 - 27:04
Divac gets the inbound and Jordan strips him and takes it the other way.
(Jordan - 12 PPD, 3 EPPD).
Possession 22 - 27:21
Magic backs down Jordan towards the free-throw line. Pippen comes over to help and another Bull hedges. Magic fakes Jordan slightly out of the way and then finds Campbell for a semi-open jumper. Help comes late and Campbell gets an and-1.
Top10alltime has convinced me if I’m going to count plays where Jordan pressures Magic into errant passes as effective, plays like this should be ineffective.
(Jordan - 13 PPD, 4 IPPD)
Possession 23 - 28:20
Divac’s pass is tipped to the backboard. Bulls ball.
Possession 24 - 28:37
Jordan picks up Magic again. Magic thinks Jordan fouls him and lets go of the ball to embellish, allowing Pippen to steal it. Weird one but effective is effective.
(Jordan - 14 PPD, 4 EPPD)
Possession 25 - 28:55
Jordan picks up Magic at the free-throw line quickly falling back to the paint. Magic throws it to Campbell who spins in a circle twice to get open only to chuck and miss a contested jumper.
Possession 26 - 30:27
Jordan provides cover helping Pippen force the ball out of Magic’s hands. Jordan then follows Magic on the weakside as the play develops. Magic receives the ball and drives on Jordan, winning free-throws on a shot-attempt after help arrives. Jordan would be considered an ineffective secondary here if I was counting that.
Possession 27 - 31:27
Cartwright forces the Lakers rebounder out of bounds and he throws a prayer to no one. Chicago ball.
Possession 28 - 33:07
Jordan picks up Magic who gets separation using a screen. Jordan chases forward with another Bull as the screener rolls leaving him open at the basket. Magic finds his man but Pippen comes over to force a miss on the layup. Jordan is on Magic and watches as Perkins gets the rebound and is stonewalled at the post. Perkins throws it to Magic who throws it back to Perkins who draws a foul from Livingston. Magic receives the ball on the inbound and backs up Jordan before Grant comes over pressuring the other MJ into an errant pass. I’d say he was an ineffective secondary here too.
Possession 29 - 34:14
Jordan spends a couple seconds on Magic with the ball but is otherwise uninvolved as the Lakers get off a quick score.
Possession 30 - 35:01
Jordan picks up Magic near the start of the possession (how near and where is unclear since the camera is fixated on an angry Phil Jackson to start) and sticks with him as Magic drives down the court. 3 other Bulls sell out to prevent a connection with A.C Green leaving Campbell wide open. Magic finds him and Green swings it to Perkins who hits a floater.
(Jordan - 15 PPD)
Possession 31 - 36:34
Jordan denies a backcourt connection with Magic and then watches as an outlet leads to a successful 3 v 3.
Possession 32 - 37:55
Lakers reset by throwing it to Magic and Jordan tips his pass and goes forward anticipating a potential turnover. The Lakers end up securing the board and are able to score despite Jordan’s contributions. I’d say MJ is an effective secondary here.
Possession 33 - 38:40
Jordan picks up Magic at the key and is hit with a Perkins screen. Magic takes the ball to the top baiting Jordan to follow leaving Perkins wide-open as he rolls. Grant comes to cover but it’s too little, too late as Perkins hits an open layup.
(Jordan - 16 PPD, 5 IPPD)
Possession 34 - 40:16
With a teammate forcing Divac to turn his back to the basket with the ball at half-court, Jordan makes his move, stripping Divac for an easy dunk.
(Jordan 17 PPD, 5 EPPD)
Possession 35 - 40:27
Jordan provides cover as Grant steps up and pressures Magic into a risky outlet. Green seemingly wins control of the ball but Pippen rushes back to scoop it up giving the Lakers a second-straight turnover.
Possession 36 - 40:42
Lakers break and Jordan chases from behind. As he catches up the ball finds Magic who fakes a kick-out before dumping it to AC Green who lays it in.
Possession 37 - 41:50
Jordan runs with a speeding Magic but is tugged aside. As called that’s ineffective but
that should be an offensive foul. That said, ball doesn’t lie: the layup pass gets blown up.
(Jordan - 18 PPD)
Possession 38 - 42:10
Jordan gets an IA (3) as Magic uses a screen to lose him. Magic spends the rest of the possession guarded by Cartwright who overhelps on an entry pass to Divac. Magic then hits a wide-open jumper.
Possession 39 - 43:50
Magic navigates back-court pressure from Pippen before being picked up by Jordan at the key. Magic throws an entry pass and MJ watches as the other Lakers eventually get the ball in.
Possession 40 - 45:30
Jordan picks up Magic at half-court. Magic gives it to Divac who kicks it back out to Teagle who nearly fumbles, but recovers and drives. Jordan moves to help but he’s too late to affect the play and Teagle throws it in.
(Jordan - 19 PPD)
Tally and Analysis
Paint-Protection - Jordan
Spoiler:
Perimeter Defense - Jordan
Spoiler:
During Jordan’s first 40 possessions, I gave him, 0 possessions as a primary or co-primary rim-protector of which he was deemed effective in 0 and ineffective in 0. Jordan also was given 19 possessions as a primary or co–primary perimeter defender, of which he was deemed effective in 5 and ineffective in 5. Additionally, MJ was given 3 Irrational Avoidances. This means per Possession, MJ averaged, 0.00 PPs, 0.00 EPPs, 0.00 IPPs, 0.475 PPDs, 0.125 EPPDs, 0.125 IPPDs, and 0.05 IAs.
Here is how the other “A” rated Jordan game (1993 ECF, Game 3) graded out:
Spoiler:
Here is how Jordan scored in a “normal” Jordan game (game 5 1989 vs the Cavs) tracked by top10alltime:
This would mean per-possession Top10alltime gave Jordan 0.12 PPs, 0.00 EPPs, and 0.09 IPPs along with .12 PPDs, 0.013 EPPDs, and 0.1 IPPs.
For comparison here is how the other three players tracked with this system faired:
Spoiler:
Here’s how other players fared in terms of Paint-usage (only Duncan and Drob (1999 finals) had efficacy tracked)
Spoiler:
So how does this “A” Jordan look? Well going by the numbers there’s grounds for debate between him and Kidd that weren’t there with the 93 one. On top of having an advantage in paint-usage Kidd also has more effective primary perimeter possessions to go with less ineffective ones. Jordan is the higher usage perimeter defender, but in the role he was deployed, he grades out as a less effective one. That said, at least based on what was physically observed on the court, I still favor MJ. Jordan certainly struggled but I don’t really know if Kidd is doing better spending possession after possession on a Magic analog and despite the numbers, I’d say Kidd looked pretty bad matching up vs bigger players inside. Frankly I’d probably rate this performance higher than the 1993 “A” despite the numbers considering that one of the IAs 93 jordan won was off a play the opposing offense was trying to drive on him and 2 of his instances of paint-usage were plays he did basically nothing while the Bulls actual paint-protectors were pressuring high up. Jordan had a larger and more difficult role defensively this game and I’m more impressed with the mixed-bag vs Magic than avoiding catastrophe vs Mason (granted that small 3-possession stretch of small-ball probably asked more of Jordan than any stretch from this game).
That said over these 40 possessions Jordan didn’t really give Magic a “super hard time” or anything close to that. Jordan didn’t really give Magic difficulty at all until possession 14 and was, with 2 exceptions, either quickly overpowered or pre-emptively giving up real-estate whenever Magic posted up. He had 3 possessions where he accomplished something of note, including one where it’s pretty debatable Jordan was the one who accomplished anything (possession 20). He also gave up 2 should-be layups (1 was converted) being baited into chasing, and another 1 off being directly overpowered. While Jordan was the primary POA defender, I’d say the help behind acted as a bigger deterrent.
I didn’t track Pippen but I wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up looking significantly more effective vs the Magic man. As is, by Djoker’s tracking, Magic had alot less points per possession facing Pippen than MJ.
In comparison to the two Lebron games, this is the first game where Jordan grades out having a little more perimeter usage (19 vs 18 and 16). The trade-off is he basically isn’t used in the paint at all and he has a far worse ratio of effective primary possessions to ineffective ones. I think counting secondaries would hurt him a bit (two ineffective plays vs 1 effective one going off memory). Combining perimeter and paint deployment Lebron is used alot more defensively and is alot more effective in said role. He does have an IA over the 09 performance but on that front he scores far worse than 2007 did. Just not on that level.
Same holds true vs Hakeem who was the primary paint or perimeter defender in 3/4ths of the possessions he played and still was alot more effective.
I could see an argument for it as an “A” game specifically relative to other guards, but the grade has to be lower once we start allowing bigger players in the room.
Miscellaneous
Differentiated between “weak”’ and “strong” IAs as promised though I’d want to see more examples of them being a high-volume phenomena (like with 2007 Lebron) before I commit to listing the two separately
If I do start making it an “official” thing here is what distinguishes strong and weak:
Spoiler:
Will probably want to give this a test-run at some point
Spoiler:
Think I’ll next look over top10alltime’s own defensive tracking next. Might look at a “normal” MJ performance after though I encourage readers to keep recommending games they consider the “best”
