Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin

Ron Swanson · Post #1041 » by **Ron Swanson** » Thu Apr 3, 2025 2:20 pm

Who's the best player we could have gotten for whatever combo of Khris + Bobby/Pat + AJ Johnson + 2031 1st? I've harped on it enough that I'm guessing everyone knows my answer (Jimmy), but that to me is the only real hindsight question that matters. The organization was gonna make a Khris trade either way to A) get below the 2nd apron, and B) get any "warm body" that could give them 30+ playoff minutes because they had zero faith in Khris' body holding up (and they were 100% right on that front).

Any post-deadline scenario where we keep Khris just wasn't happening for very logical reasons, sorry. It's only a matter of how much value you were willing to part with in order to turn him into a productive player or asset. I would have just added value and swung for the fences (Jimmy), or straight up dumped him for a worse contract (LaVine?). But as we've seen unfold, they arguably chose the worst option, and split the difference for a non-difference maker on a slightly more palatable contract. I couldn't give two **** about AJ Johnson being gone if we actually got a really good player in the trade, and I'll stand by that, but it really is/was a classic Herb Kohl "treadmill" trade at its core. That's where the hand-wringing rightfully comes in.

German Athens · Post #1042 » by **German Athens** » Thu Apr 3, 2025 2:29 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Who's the best player we could have gotten for whatever combo of Khris + Bobby/Pat + AJ Johnson + 2031 1st? I've harped on it enough that I'm guessing everyone knows my answer (Jimmy), but that to me is the only real hindsight question that matters. The organization was gonna make a Khris trade either way to A) get below the 2nd apron, and B) get any "warm body" that could give them 30+ playoff minutes because they had zero faith in Khris' body holding up (and they were 100% right on that front).

Any post-deadline scenario where we keep Khris just wasn't happening for very logical reasons, sorry. It's only a matter of how much value you were willing to part with in order to turn him into a productive player or asset. I would have just added value and swung for the fences (Jimmy), or straight up dumped him for a worse contract (LaVine?). But as we've seen unfold, they arguably chose the worst option, and split the difference for a non-difference maker on a slightly more palatable contract. I couldn't give two **** about AJ Johnson being gone if we actually got a really good player in the trade, and I'll stand by that, but it really is/was a classic Herb Kohl "treadmill" trade at its core.

The Jimmy trade still gives me hope that something similar will present itself to us in the off-season. Jimmy on this team right now immediately vaults us right back into contention.

GS was below .500 when they traded for Jimmy, and now they’re sitting 5th in the west and 13 games over .500.

For those who are about to take themselves out back, before you go, just remember that things change fast in this league, and it doesn’t take much to tip the scales especially when you have the best player in the world.

chonestown · Post #1043 » by **chonestown** » Thu Apr 3, 2025 2:31 pm

Baddy Chuck wrote:I think AJ is showing enough signs to be cautious, and maybe it's a defense mechanism, but I'm also not bent out of shape of losing him yet. Don't get me wrong the trade **** sucked any way you slice it (unless there's some rabbit in that hat this offseason with the "flexibility") but I'm closer to GOS's side that he kinda still sucks and the odds are against him ever not sucking. Generally I'd tend to believe he's on his Tony Wroten **** right now, doesn't feel anything to a Tobes level yet. Still young, super talented, with our luck he's probably awesome but I'll wait this one out.

Only need the slimmest of excuses to post this:

Matches Malone · Post #1044 » by **Matches Malone** » Thu Apr 3, 2025 2:36 pm

German Athens wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:Who's the best player we could have gotten for whatever combo of Khris + Bobby/Pat + AJ Johnson + 2031 1st? I've harped on it enough that I'm guessing everyone knows my answer (Jimmy), but that to me is the only real hindsight question that matters. The organization was gonna make a Khris trade either way to A) get below the 2nd apron, and B) get any "warm body" that could give them 30+ playoff minutes because they had zero faith in Khris' body holding up (and they were 100% right on that front).

Any post-deadline scenario where we keep Khris just wasn't happening for very logical reasons, sorry. It's only a matter of how much value you were willing to part with in order to turn him into a productive player or asset. I would have just added value and swung for the fences (Jimmy), or straight up dumped him for a worse contract (LaVine?). But as we've seen unfold, they arguably chose the worst option, and split the difference for a non-difference maker on a slightly more palatable contract. I couldn't give two **** about AJ Johnson being gone if we actually got a really good player in the trade, and I'll stand by that, but it really is/was a classic Herb Kohl "treadmill" trade at its core.

The Jimmy trade still gives me hope that something similar will present itself to us in the off-season. Jimmy on this team right now immediately vaults us right back into contention.

GS was below .500 when they traded for Jimmy, and now they’re sitting 5th in the west and 13 games over .500.

For those who are about to take themselves out back, before you go, just remember that things change fast in this league, and it doesn’t take much to tip the scales especially when you have the best player in the world.

They need to move on from Doc or it's all a moot point. He'd find a way to make a Giannis/Butler duo janky and inefficient.

Profound23 · Post #1045 » by **Profound23** » Thu Apr 3, 2025 2:37 pm

I just can't believe there wasn't a way to trade Middleton away without giving up AJJ or another future pick. Even if it was for a player worse than Kuzma with a similar contract that still gets us under the second apron.

AJJ/Rollins COULD have been a dynamic backcourt if we allowed them to grow together.

German Athens · Post #1046 » by **German Athens** » Thu Apr 3, 2025 2:41 pm

Yeah, they absolutely have to move on from Doc. I’m hoping Haslam had his Lasry moment (Kidd) with the doc hire, and that Giannis had his Lasry moment with demanding a former player coach, and now we’re ready to have another Bud analogous hire.

Get Jenkins back in here.

emunney · Post #1047 » by **emunney** » Thu Apr 3, 2025 3:06 pm

German Athens wrote:Yeah, they absolutely have to move on from Doc. I’m hoping Haslam had his Lasry moment (Kidd) with the doc hire, and that Giannis had his Lasry moment with demanding a former player coach, and now we’re ready to have another Bud analogous hire.

Get Jenkins back in here.

Tony Bennett's got next

WeMajor34 · Post #1048 » by **WeMajor34** » Thu Apr 3, 2025 3:14 pm

Hopefully Edens and Haslam have a "YOU TOLD ME THIS WOULD WORK?!" moment with Doc and Horst regarding the Kuzma trade and act accordingly. Which isn't to say the trade isn't on the owners too. It doesn't take a genius to watch Kuz tape and not like what you're seeing.

Whether or not you think AJ Johnson has upside, the trade is a disaster on multiple fronts.

German Athens · Post #1049 » by **German Athens** » Thu Apr 3, 2025 3:15 pm

emunney wrote:
Tony Bennett's got next

Paging Murdock

Matches Malone · Post #1050 » by **Matches Malone** » Thu Apr 3, 2025 3:22 pm

WeMajor34 wrote:Hopefully Edens and Haslam have a "YOU TOLD ME THIS WOULD WORK?!" moment with Doc and Horst regarding the Kuzma trade and act accordingly. Which isn't to say the trade isn't on the owners too. It doesn't take a genius to watch Kuz tape and not like what you're seeing.

Whether or not you think AJ Johnson has upside, the trade is a disaster on multiple fronts.

They only have themselves to blame with their meddling. Hiring Doc was the first mistake. The AJ Deal smells like a Doc maneuver as well. Wouldn't be the first time he's tossed aside young talent because of age/timelines. God forbid he has to coach AND develop a roster.

I'm not a Horst fan but have to think we'd be in a better spot if the Owners/Giannis weren't making demands on who the next coach is and what players to target and just let the GM do his job.

Matches Malone · Post #1051 » by **Matches Malone** » Thu Apr 3, 2025 4:38 pm

Read on Twitter

Wonka · Post #1052 » by **Wonka** » Thu Apr 3, 2025 5:11 pm

Read on Twitter

It just keeps on coming...

ShootingtheJ · Post #1053 » by **ShootingtheJ** » Thu Apr 3, 2025 5:17 pm

I can't believe Horst actually picked a good player, but he blew that too.

Dick Tate · Post #1054 » by **Dick Tate** » Thu Apr 3, 2025 5:29 pm

Why are Bobby "what if" TIs still being posted? Bobby killed those.

BigO · Post #1055 » by **BigO** » Thu Apr 3, 2025 5:31 pm

This Jimmy Butler trade stuff keeps rearing its ugly head, despite the facts, which I guess I'm obligated to repeat again:

1) The Heat wanted a good player in return. They got a decent player (Wiggins) who has two years remaining on his contract at a reasonable salary. The Bucks had nothing decent to offer them, except an injured Middleton and an expiring Portis.

2) Why would they want Middleton, who has another year after this, at a higher salary than Wiggins?

3) The Bucks were never going to take on more salary by giving Butler 60 plus million a year for two years. The abomination of a trade for Kuzma appears to have been done to shed salary, despite Edens denial.

A healthy (problematic) and willing to be a good teammate (also problematic) Butler, would have made a big difference. That, I agree with. But it was never going to happen.

Ron Swanson · Post #1056 » by **Ron Swanson** » Thu Apr 3, 2025 5:52 pm

The only "facts" relevant to the Butler trade were that we were both A) clearly in the running based on multiple proposals and rumors circulating around the major outlets, and B) Miami initially communicated that they wanted "expiring and short term contracts" to preserve cap room for 2026, which made perfect sense re: what we would have offered.

That they settled for Golden State's trash offer is not the end-all referendum on why Jimmy didn't end up a Buck. It could have been because of Bobby's looming suspension, or it could have been because we didn't want to fork over additional assets and the Khris + Bobby + minor asset to dump Pat's contract was all we were willing to offer. If it's the former then there's nothing they could have done. If it's the latter, then it's just another avenue that this organization whiffed on to salvage this team's window of contention while Giannis is still in his prime.

Packbuckman · Post #1057 » by **Packbuckman** » Thu Apr 3, 2025 8:37 pm

Wonka wrote:

Read on Twitter

It just keeps on coming...

I said it from day one this kid is going to be really good he just turned 20 yrs old and people on here were saying he sucked lol
Rollins and AJJ would have made a very good backcourt I was so disappointed with trading him just **** stupid!

BUCKnation · Post #1058 » by **BUCKnation** » Thu Apr 3, 2025 9:00 pm

He may not end up turning into anything, but I definitely understand the 'different' talks. His speed stands out in a league full of elite athletes and not even a bucks are just old and slow way.

Wonka · Post #1059 » by **Wonka** » Thu Apr 3, 2025 9:14 pm

Packbuckman wrote:
Wonka wrote:

Read on Twitter

It just keeps on coming...

I said it from day one this kid is going to be really good he just turned 20 yrs old and people on here were saying he sucked lol
Rollins and AJJ would have made a very good backcourt I was so disappointed with trading him just **** stupid!

Yep. Same page. A lot of people here don't know much about basketball talent. Simple and clean. They watched summer league box scores and made value judgments when he went 0-14 as a freshly drafted 19 year old. They made a choice to focus on his mistakes while blinding themselves to any possibility that he could turn into even a role player. It gets quieter and quieter with every Wizard game.

Packbuckman · Post #1060 » by **Packbuckman** » Fri Apr 4, 2025 12:23 am

Wonka wrote:
Packbuckman wrote:
Wonka wrote:

Read on Twitter

It just keeps on coming...

I said it from day one this kid is going to be really good he just turned 20 yrs old and people on here were saying he sucked lol
Rollins and AJJ would have made a very good backcourt I was so disappointed with trading him just **** stupid!

Yep. Same page. A lot of people here don't know much about basketball talent. Simple and clean. They watched summer league box scores and made value judgments when he went 0-14 as a freshly drafted 19 year old. They made a choice to focus on his mistakes while blinding themselves to any possibility that he could turn into even a role player. It gets quieter and quieter with every Wizard game.

Yes for sure I haven’t been that excited for a buck draft pick since Giannis and we trade him before his rookie season is even over for Kuzma lmfao
I could care less he was missing easy layups what I loved he was blowing by everyone to get there and at 19 at the time people on here don’t understand he’s going to get stronger and weigh more than 160 pounds this kid is a long 6’5 he’s going to be dunking on people consistently very soon. Horst is a **** moron