Official Bulls Tankathon 2025 Thread

[Repeat 3-peat]

Miami continues to win. They beat Boston tonight. They have winnable games down the stretch(and also play the Bulls), Portland is in the same boat.

Suns are only up one win, but their remaining schedule is brutal. @Celtics, @Knicks, Warriors, OKC, Spurs, @Kings. The Rockets own their pick.

[NecessaryEvil]

Miami continues to win. They beat Boston tonight. They have winnable games down the stretch(and also play the Bulls), Portland is in the same boat.

Suns are only up one win, but their remaining schedule is brutal. @Celtics, @Knicks, Warriors, OKC, Spurs, @Kings. The Rockets own their pick.

I was surprised about that win but i'll take it. I can see Miami keeping it up.

The Suns pick goes to Houston so we don't have to worry about the tank on that end.

[Muzbar]

Miami continues to win. They beat Boston tonight. They have winnable games down the stretch(and also play the Bulls), Portland is in the same boat.

Suns are only up one win, but their remaining schedule is brutal. @Celtics, @Knicks, Warriors, OKC, Spurs, @Kings. The Rockets own their pick.

The Heat has the 3rd easiest remaining schedule strength, Bulls 5th and Blazers 8th.

Interestingly, the Hawks (8th seed) and Magic (7th seed) play one another twice before the end of season.

[HomoSapien]

With the way we've played, I would be surprised if we kept our pick. I fully expect AK to package it with our expiring contracts for someone who can help us make a playoff push.

If AK does that (which I don't think he should) do you have a player in mind that he should go after?

Assuming we are at the end of the lottery, I would actually like to see us dangle it for Walker Kessler who I think is the exact type of center and defensive presence we need. That said, I have a gut feeling that we will pursue Sabonis.

[Guru]

We are 2 games out of the 8th spot.

[kodo]

With the way we've played, I would be surprised if we kept our pick. I fully expect AK to package it with our expiring contracts for someone who can help us make a playoff push.

If AK does that (which I don't think he should) do you have a player in mind that he should go after?

Assuming we are at the end of the lottery, I would actually like to see us dangle it for Walker Kessler who I think is the exact type of center and defensive presence we need. That said, I have a gut feeling that we will pursue Sabonis.

I don't see SAC trading Sabonis. The cost to get him was sky high. Sabonis may want to be on another team, but the reality is that he can't do anything about it for 4 years.

[pipfan]

Friday's game with Port is a big one-love to slip to #9 if possible. SA won too-let's see them make a bit of a surge.
Lowest we can go is #8, highest is about #12 (or #15 if we win in the Playin). That's a huge range
Newell at the moment is my guy, but that's just from watching a few highlights on Youtube

[drosestruts]

OKC traded Paul George for SGA, Gallinari, 5 first round picks and 2 swaps. They also traded Westbrook for Chris Paul, 2 first round picks and 2 swaps.

Chris Paul ended up being better than expected and they finished in 5th place in the West. With all those additional assets they had the luxury of doing that. It meant that they could compete and still had the ability to make moves.

The next year is when SGA got hurt and they traded Paul. The team finished 22-50. Their goal was definitely a top pick. They drafted Giddey and went with their young players for another losing season (24-58) for another top pick (this time it was Chet and later on with their assets Jalen Williams).

At that point they had young players with upside (Chet, Williams, Giddey, and SGA) and extra picks to work with. They finished in 10th place in the West (40-42). Then last year their young players took a step forward and the team improved (57 wins).

The Bulls have never been in a situation like that, in part because AK doesn't trade for future picks (unless you count the Portland pick which is nebulous at best due to the protections).

As for the Jazz, Ainge decided to move on from the Mitchell/Gobert team (I think there was also some issues between those two players...?). He got 4 first round picks (5 if you count Kessler) and a swap for Gobert. For Mitchell he got Markkanen, Sexton, three first round picks and two swaps.

Then the team over achieved to start the season and was a surprise (Markkanen's all-star season). He did what he could to tank the rest of the year, but at that point it was too late.

The following season he traded vets at the deadline and tried to get a top pick again (but didn't push hard for it knowing that it wasn't the best draft). He also talked to teams about Markkanen and ultimately decided to keep him for now.

This year they went for a full on tank and currently have the worst record. If they get Flagg that will change things for them. Picks 2 or 3 might too. I bet Ainge talked to Markkanen about this plan going into the season.

Plus, like OKC they have additional picks to work with.

As for the Raptors I'm not sure what they're doing.

I don't remember the OKC or Utah trades as being these shrewed high toward the future moves, but rather, players requesting trades out of those teams.

And in OKC's case, they hit a homerun with the trade of Paul George in particular.

But in my mind, and it's probably splitting hairs, they never tanked. Young players, if healthy, played and weren't micromanaged to improve lottery positioning. Maybe you can say players got hurt at the right times, and not only got hurt, but seemed to make good recoveries, without those injuries affecting their ability upon return.


Utah on the other hand, is tanking. And has made so many moves to make their team as bad as possible, I'm not even sure what drafting a Cooper Flagg does for them. They have Flagg for 6-8 years, never making the playoffs until he asks to be traded like Mitchell and Gobert did? It's hard to see the vision. Their draft picks in recent years have been underwhelming (Hendricks, Williams, George, Filipowki, Kessler, Collier). 7 1st round picks in the last three years and I'm not impressed by any of them.

Again best case scenario they get Flagg, and it almost seems like a "so what?" - they'll still be bad.

Spurs have a better roster and Wemby is likely a better player, with him this year they were still 21-25 and being 19-52 the year before.

I don't see Flagg leading the Jazz to a better record than Wemby leads the Spurs to.

The NBA is tough and might be at it's most talented it's been in a long time.

There's all-star caliber players and Hall of Famers littered throughout lottery teams these days. It's tough out there.

I agree that OKC hit a home run with the Paul George trade, but I have to give them credit for doing the trade. Who knows what that trade looks like under another GM. Maybe they don't ask for as many picks as OKC got?

Even if OKC hadn't made that trade I'm sure Presti would still develop his team using the draft. He's made many moves where he trades a veteran away for future picks or taking on a bad salary to acquire picks. It's what he does.

You seem to think the number 1 overall pick in a draft doesn't matter.

Last years draft was weak and Risacher doesn't have the same potential that most #1 picks have.

Wemby has potential to be a great player and the Spurs weren't looking to be competitive this year. They're still building their team. I bet next year they'll be a lot better.

Paolo Banchero has helped Orlando improve from where they are. I know you don't think much of him, but the numbers show that they improved. Also, keep in mind that he started the season strong, but it got derailed with injuries.

Cade Cunningham has helped Detroit turn things around this year.

Anthony Edwards has done well in Minnesota.

Zion has injury issues.

Number 1 overall picks might not turn a team around fast, but there's a good chance that the team will improve. If Utah drafts Flagg I bet they won't bad for "6-8 years". Flagg gives Utah a prospect with star level potential and that's something they can work with.

Yea that Paul George trade was something. It was pretty much public knowledge that Kawhi would only sign with the Clippers if they had Paul George. I'm not sure it's magical GMing to have a player on your team colluding with other players to play for a different franchise.

It sure is lucky though.

I think the number one pick in drafts are often very talented players. I think the NBA is just hitting peak levels of competitiveness and one player doesn't have the same impact they use to. You can't tank the way Utah is, get lucky with a high pick, and have an immediate impact on winning.

This Utah roster, with Flagg, is still a bottom 5 team in the NBA.

This is Cade's first season winning more than 23 games in 4 years. His numbers are only slightly better than last year when the team won 14 games. He's a good player for sure, but it took better players being put around him for it to matter at all.

[jnrjr79]

Ill be curious following players like Scottie Barnes and Lauri Markkannen in the years to come. Will we see the promising young players we saw in the past who earned the very large contracts both are now on?

Or is there a downside to tanking?

Someone like SGA missed legit time with plantar fascia tears and ankle injuries. When healthy and playing he was always encouraged to win.

Yeah, I'm all for front offices constructing rosters that are tank-worthy, when appropriate. But unless it's just for the last few games of the season or something like that, I'm not a huge fan of coaches benching the team's best players to tank.

I don't know how much stock to put into it, but I saw someone on Twitter earlier today noting that Matas, in his rookie season, is playing in quasi-meaningful games down the stretch, and perhaps that's better for his development than just trying to put up some numbers on a bottom-feeder.

I wanted to tank this year, but it ain't happening, so I'm just going to sort of enjoy what's left of the year for what it's worth. When the Bulls are winning primarily because of the contributions of their younger players, I can't find myself getting all that mad about it.

I said this in the game thread: The Bulls are going to be in the play-in no matter what happens so why not rest Giddey and Coby? If they lose the remaining games that's good for their draft position. If they win that's okay too (because it most likely means Matas did well).

Then Giddey and Coby are rested for the play-in and the same thing applies. If they win that's okay. They get experience. If they lose (which is likely) then it keeps them in the lottery (the team needs to add more talent to this team either way).

This is something they could've done awhile back too.

Whether you agree with it or not, Billy has addressed this question. He says he doesn't think the Bulls can rest guys and then just flip the switch back into competitive mode for the play-in. He has also said that he and the players are monitoring play-in seeding, would like a home game, and would like to make the "real" playoffs.

Long story short, Billy is trying to win, and believes the players will develop better trying to win. I don't know how he'd response to AK directing him to take his foot off the gas, but Billy has also said AK has made no such suggestion.

[DuckIII]

I don't remember the OKC or Utah trades as being these shrewed high toward the future moves, but rather, players requesting trades out of those teams.

And in OKC's case, they hit a homerun with the trade of Paul George in particular.

But in my mind, and it's probably splitting hairs, they never tanked. Young players, if healthy, played and weren't micromanaged to improve lottery positioning. Maybe you can say players got hurt at the right times, and not only got hurt, but seemed to make good recoveries, without those injuries affecting their ability upon return.


Utah on the other hand, is tanking. And has made so many moves to make their team as bad as possible, I'm not even sure what drafting a Cooper Flagg does for them. They have Flagg for 6-8 years, never making the playoffs until he asks to be traded like Mitchell and Gobert did? It's hard to see the vision. Their draft picks in recent years have been underwhelming (Hendricks, Williams, George, Filipowki, Kessler, Collier). 7 1st round picks in the last three years and I'm not impressed by any of them.

Again best case scenario they get Flagg, and it almost seems like a "so what?" - they'll still be bad.

Spurs have a better roster and Wemby is likely a better player, with him this year they were still 21-25 and being 19-52 the year before.

I don't see Flagg leading the Jazz to a better record than Wemby leads the Spurs to.

The NBA is tough and might be at it's most talented it's been in a long time.

There's all-star caliber players and Hall of Famers littered throughout lottery teams these days. It's tough out there.

I agree that OKC hit a home run with the Paul George trade, but I have to give them credit for doing the trade. Who knows what that trade looks like under another GM. Maybe they don't ask for as many picks as OKC got?

Even if OKC hadn't made that trade I'm sure Presti would still develop his team using the draft. He's made many moves where he trades a veteran away for future picks or taking on a bad salary to acquire picks. It's what he does.

You seem to think the number 1 overall pick in a draft doesn't matter.

Last years draft was weak and Risacher doesn't have the same potential that most #1 picks have.

Wemby has potential to be a great player and the Spurs weren't looking to be competitive this year. They're still building their team. I bet next year they'll be a lot better.

Paolo Banchero has helped Orlando improve from where they are. I know you don't think much of him, but the numbers show that they improved. Also, keep in mind that he started the season strong, but it got derailed with injuries.

Cade Cunningham has helped Detroit turn things around this year.

Anthony Edwards has done well in Minnesota.

Zion has injury issues.

Number 1 overall picks might not turn a team around fast, but there's a good chance that the team will improve. If Utah drafts Flagg I bet they won't bad for "6-8 years". Flagg gives Utah a prospect with star level potential and that's something they can work with.

Wemby career is a question mark due to blood clots . Since that can be a career/ life threatening situation

Due to the location of his clots, it’s not supposed to put his career in any jeopardy. Players get blood clots. Chris Bosh got them in his lungs and could never get them resolved so was forced to retire. But his medical situation was unique.

Blood clots can be career threatening but they can also not really mean anything long term at all. Wemby, reportedly, has the latter type.

[Dan Z]

With the way we've played, I would be surprised if we kept our pick. I fully expect AK to package it with our expiring contracts for someone who can help us make a playoff push.

If AK does that (which I don't think he should) do you have a player in mind that he should go after?

Assuming we are at the end of the lottery, I would actually like to see us dangle it for Walker Kessler who I think is the exact type of center and defensive presence we need. That said, I have a gut feeling that we will pursue Sabonis.

Kessler would be great, but I bet Utah would want too much for him. I never understood why they considered trading him in the past.

[jnrjr79]

I agree that OKC hit a home run with the Paul George trade, but I have to give them credit for doing the trade. Who knows what that trade looks like under another GM. Maybe they don't ask for as many picks as OKC got?

Even if OKC hadn't made that trade I'm sure Presti would still develop his team using the draft. He's made many moves where he trades a veteran away for future picks or taking on a bad salary to acquire picks. It's what he does.

You seem to think the number 1 overall pick in a draft doesn't matter.

Last years draft was weak and Risacher doesn't have the same potential that most #1 picks have.

Wemby has potential to be a great player and the Spurs weren't looking to be competitive this year. They're still building their team. I bet next year they'll be a lot better.

Paolo Banchero has helped Orlando improve from where they are. I know you don't think much of him, but the numbers show that they improved. Also, keep in mind that he started the season strong, but it got derailed with injuries.

Cade Cunningham has helped Detroit turn things around this year.

Anthony Edwards has done well in Minnesota.

Zion has injury issues.

Number 1 overall picks might not turn a team around fast, but there's a good chance that the team will improve. If Utah drafts Flagg I bet they won't bad for "6-8 years". Flagg gives Utah a prospect with star level potential and that's something they can work with.

Wemby career is a question mark due to blood clots . Since that can be a career/ life threatening situation

Due to the location of his clots, it’s not supposed to put his career in any jeopardy. Players get blood clots. Chris Bosh got them in his lungs and could never get them resolved so was forced to retire. But his medical situation was unique.

Blood clots can be career threatening but they can also not really mean anything long term at all. Wemby, reportedly, has the latter type.

To my recollection, Bosh did get his blood clotting issue resolved. The problem was he permanently had to stay on blood thinners, and the risk of bleeding was deemed too high for him to play a contact sport. So, it would seem the ability to eventually get off the blood thinners is really what would be determinative, and I understand Wemby is supposed to be able to.

[rosenthall]

Looking at the schedule for the rest of the year -- it seems really unlikely that we get out of the 9/10 spot. We have 5 games left, with 3 of them against tank teams and the other two are against Miami and Cleveland. I think we probably go 3-2 during this stretch, and optimistically go 4-1.

Atlanta is right ahead of us and they have 6 more games. 3 of them against tanking teams, and the other 3 are against Orlando (2x) and NYK.

If we go 4-1 and they go 3-3, losing all their losable games, we'd be tied for the same record, but their conference record is 27-20, while ours is 24-23. Assuming ATL cleans up against PHI and BKN they are almost certainly going to end up with a better conference record than us.

For us to get out of #9 everything would have to go just right and I don't see it happening.

I hope the team prioritizes health for the rest of the year.

[NecessaryEvil]

Hopefully we get a bit of lottery ‘luck’ from Silver. We’re probably the only true lower seeded team that’s been trying hard as hell to win and clearly not tank.

Bless us with Flagg commissioner. Besides, it would be humongous for the NBA.

[Chi town]

Hawks loss to the Knicks.

I think Bulls will finish 4-1 and get that 8th seed.

I think ORL will beat Hawks both times.

[rosenthall]

Hawks loss to the Knicks.

I think Bulls will finish 4-1 and get that 8th seed.

I think ORL will beat Hawks both times.

Even if we finish 4-1 and the Hawks lose both games to Orlando we'd still be a lower seed than them due to our inferior conference record. We'll either need to go 5-0, or the Hawks will have to drop a game against a team that is overtly tanking. The latter is highly unlikely because the Hawks don't own their pick this year, so the front office will definitely not be mandating that they do it.

[Muzbar]

Hawks loss to the Knicks.

I think Bulls will finish 4-1 and get that 8th seed.

I think ORL will beat Hawks both times.

Even if we finish 4-1 and the Hawks lose both games to Orlando we'd still be a lower seed than them due to our inferior conference record. We'll either need to go 5-0, or the Hawks will have to drop a game against a team that is overtly tanking. The latter is highly unlikely because the Hawks don't own their pick this year, so the front office will definitely not be mandating that they do it.

Not to mention that the Heat have a similar last five games as the Bulls, and the same record.

It's going to be a 3 way race for that 8th seed, I think the Heat may win their game against us though.

[rosenthall]

Hawks loss to the Knicks.

I think Bulls will finish 4-1 and get that 8th seed.

I think ORL will beat Hawks both times.

Even if we finish 4-1 and the Hawks lose both games to Orlando we'd still be a lower seed than them due to our inferior conference record. We'll either need to go 5-0, or the Hawks will have to drop a game against a team that is overtly tanking. The latter is highly unlikely because the Hawks don't own their pick this year, so the front office will definitely not be mandating that they do it.

Not to mention that the Heat have a similar last five games as the Bulls, and the same record.

It's going to be a 3 way race for that 8th seed, I think the Heat may win their game against us though.

Realistically the only way we get the 8th seed is if we win the rest of our games and Atlanta drops both of their games to Orlando. If the ball bounces any other way we'll get shut out.

[Jcool0]

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[NecessaryEvil]

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