2025 Off-Season Strategy - What will Cronin do?

[Sinobas]

Sabonis = Ayton + Sharpe + Murray + the 2025 pick (non-top4). This is a substantial trade package to SAC.

Yes, this is exactly what I've been saying. We'd need to include Sharpe (though I'd dangle Scoot and a mil swap first).


I would trade Sharpe in order to get Sabonis though. His poor shooting isn't really a good fit with this new core.

At first, I thought this was a FRP light going to Sac.

Can't get my head around Sabonis already being 28 years old, in his 9th season.

So I guess your trade value with Sharpe and the swap is fair. Would not trade Scoot untill we have a replacement starting true PG

Sabonis is older. But Deni is good NOW. Meaning if we add another star in Sabonis, we're ready to complete. Plus, he's a skilled big man, so shouldn't age that fast. Probably has another good 4 years left before we star to see decline.

The mistake the Blazers made with Dame was waiting (until never) to make a move to get him a true #2. We just piddled away his career pussy-footing around.

[zzaj]

Yes, this is exactly what I've been saying. We'd need to include Sharpe (though I'd dangle Scoot and a mil swap first).


I would trade Sharpe in order to get Sabonis though. His poor shooting isn't really a good fit with this new core.

At first, I thought this was a FRP light going to Sac.

Can't get my head around Sabonis already being 28 years old, in his 9th season.

So I guess your trade value with Sharpe and the swap is fair. Would not trade Scoot untill we have a replacement starting true PG

Sabonis is older. But Deni is good NOW. Meaning if we add another star in Sabonis, we're ready to complete. Plus, he's a skilled big man, so shouldn't age that fast. Probably has another good 4 years left before we star to see decline.

The mistake the Blazers made with Dame was waiting (until never) to make a move to get him a true #2. We just piddled away his career pussy-footing around.

What is...

Sabonis/Clingan
Deni/Grant
Camara/Grant
Simons/Banton
Scoot/Banton

...going to win, that a SAC team with Sabonis on it hasn't?

[Wizenheimer]

At first, I thought this was a FRP light going to Sac.

Can't get my head around Sabonis already being 28 years old, in his 9th season.

So I guess your trade value with Sharpe and the swap is fair. Would not trade Scoot untill we have a replacement starting true PG

Sabonis is older. But Deni is good NOW. Meaning if we add another star in Sabonis, we're ready to complete. Plus, he's a skilled big man, so shouldn't age that fast. Probably has another good 4 years left before we star to see decline.

The mistake the Blazers made with Dame was waiting (until never) to make a move to get him a true #2. We just piddled away his career pussy-footing around.

What is...

Sabonis/Clingan
Deni/Grant
Camara/Grant
Simons/Banton
Scoot/Banton

...going to win, that a SAC team with Sabonis on it hasn't?

nothing....might get above .500. Back court is a disaster

[Wizenheimer]

after watching what the Blazers did in that game last night, how can anybody have any confidence at all in this organization?

3 minutes left in a close game and finally, the Blazers tanked a game by yanking their 2 best players. WTF???

after all the pointless comical chatter about 'winning culture', and never giving up...the Blazers gave up. Gave up at the 13th hour by doing what they should have been doing for weeks...after failing to do what they absolutely should have done in the off-season...that after failing to do what they should have done when trading Dame

this organization hasn't instilled a culture of winning....it's a culture of schizophrenia; of timid fence-straddling and ignoring their own history.Why commit to one path when you can half-way commit to three. And yeah, the math doesn't work in that analogy, but Blazer math loops around and round in a feedback loop of confusion and indecision

I'm not saying that Joe and Bert can't finally get it right; I'm saying that expecting them to get it right is nuts

[zzaj]

after watching what the Blazers did in that game last night, how can anybody have any confidence at all in this organization?

3 minutes left in a close game and finally, the Blazers tanked a game by yanking their 2 best players. WTF???

after all the pointless comical chatter about 'winning culture', and never giving up...the Blazers gave up. Gave up at the 13th hour by doing what they should have been doing for weeks...after failing to do what they absolutely should have done in the off-season...that after failing to do what they should have done when trading Dame

this organization hasn't instilled a culture of winning....it's a culture of schizophrenia; of timid fence-straddling and ignoring their own history.Why commit to one path when you can half-way commit to three. And yeah, the math doesn't work in that analogy, but Blazer math loops around and round in a feedback loop of confusion and indecision

I'm not saying that Joe and Bert can't finally get it right; I'm saying that expecting them to get it right is nuts

Dylan Thomas once asked, "...if every hermaphrodite was a schizophrene, which half would you choose?"

Last night felt a little bit to me like Billups put that group in because they played well in the first half, and it was obvious guys were a little cooked on the 2nd night of a B2B at the end of a long road trip...but on principle I agree with you 100%.

Post Lillard, the Blazers have not prioritized bottoming out to possibly get a franchise-trajectory-altering prospect--and that is a massive mistake that will set the franchise back probably a decade from seriously competing.

[zzaj]

Sabonis is older. But Deni is good NOW. Meaning if we add another star in Sabonis, we're ready to complete. Plus, he's a skilled big man, so shouldn't age that fast. Probably has another good 4 years left before we star to see decline.

The mistake the Blazers made with Dame was waiting (until never) to make a move to get him a true #2. We just piddled away his career pussy-footing around.

What is...

Sabonis/Clingan
Deni/Grant
Camara/Grant
Simons/Banton
Scoot/Banton

...going to win, that a SAC team with Sabonis on it hasn't?

nothing....might get above .500. Back court is a disaster

And honestly, that team--subbing Sabonis for Ayton, and losing Sharpe--probably isn't much better than what the Blazer's are right now...doing their best to chase the 10th best record in the West, when teams 10 (SAC) and 11 (PHX) are pretty damned bad.

[Wizenheimer]

Post Lillard, the Blazers have not prioritized bottoming out to possibly get a franchise-trajectory-altering prospect--and that is a massive mistake that will set the franchise back probably a decade from seriously competing.

I think as long as the Blazer flowchart of authority remains:

Paul Allen Trust-->Jody Allen-->Vulcans-->Bert Kolde-->Joe Cronin, the Blazers will not seriously compete

[zzaj]

Post Lillard, the Blazers have not prioritized bottoming out to possibly get a franchise-trajectory-altering prospect--and that is a massive mistake that will set the franchise back probably a decade from seriously competing.

I think as long as the Blazer flowchart of authority remains:

Paul Allen Trust-->Jody Allen-->Vulcans-->Bert Kolde-->Joe Cronin, the Blazers will not seriously compete

I know it's a popular idea, but I'm personally not much of a fan of 87 year old Phil Knight buying the team. I feel like that idea that was floated about the Timbers owner leading a group of buyers makes more sense, personally.

Other than milking money, I can't really see a reason for Jodi to hang on to the team...she comes to games, so who knows, maybe she actually likes being an owner. (shrug). For her part, it's pretty easy to pile onto her given (to my knowledge) she's never given a public statement or interview about the situation...

I think owners get a bump of money when the league goes through an expansion. Maybe she's holding out for that...

[Walton1one]

Here is a wild scenario, that I don't see happening, but what if MIL flamed out and Giannis wanted out?

Could POR offer enough to MIL to entice them to make a deal?

POR owns their 29' 1st (it would be best of), & swaps in 28 & 30, they could send all those back + trade them their 25' 1st and their 31' 1st + Deni, Scoot & Ayton (cap purposes). Possibly Williams\Thybulle instead of Ayton, that could work as well.

Would that even entice MIL? Normally I would say no, but POR owning their future capital could make a difference. Would Giannis even want to go there (he doesn't really have a choice). I mean the lineup would be Simons\Sharpe\Grant\Giannis\Clingan with a bench of Camara\Williams & Thybulle?

I think other teams could come up with something better, but POR owning their future capital could make this feasible. More likely this would be something revisted in another year or two

[HoopsFanAZ]

Clingan 28 / Sabonis 20
Sabonis 14 / Grant 34 / Time Lord, Reath
Deni 34 / Toumani 14
Toumani 18 / Ant 16 / Thybulle, Rupert, Banton 14
Scoot 32 / Ant 16

Who starts to be determined. Who plays with whom to be determined. Additional moves possible to likely.

It’s a playoff team, IMHO. [all theoretical, of course]

[The Sebastian Express]

Post Lillard, the Blazers have not prioritized bottoming out to possibly get a franchise-trajectory-altering prospect--and that is a massive mistake that will set the franchise back probably a decade from seriously competing.

I think as long as the Blazer flowchart of authority remains:

Paul Allen Trust-->Jody Allen-->Vulcans-->Bert Kolde-->Joe Cronin, the Blazers will not seriously compete

I know it's a popular idea, but I'm personally not much of a fan of 87 year old Phil Knight buying the team. I feel like that idea that was floated about the Timbers owner leading a group of buyers makes more sense, personally.

Other than milking money, I can't really see a reason for Jodi to hang on to the team...she comes to games, so who knows, maybe she actually likes being an owner. (shrug). For her part, it's pretty easy to pile onto her given (to my knowledge) she's never given a public statement or interview about the situation...

I think owners get a bump of money when the league goes through an expansion. Maybe she's holding out for that...

I don't think she's a great owner and based on the reports we got on her years ago, she is decidedly not a good person.

But she's invested money into the team, its buildings, staff, programs. She attends games. I don't think she's a bad owner. I think she's probably pretty middle of the pack. We could have it a lot worse.

I also am not a fan of the Phil Knight idea.

[zzaj]

I think as long as the Blazer flowchart of authority remains:

Paul Allen Trust-->Jody Allen-->Vulcans-->Bert Kolde-->Joe Cronin, the Blazers will not seriously compete

I know it's a popular idea, but I'm personally not much of a fan of 87 year old Phil Knight buying the team. I feel like that idea that was floated about the Timbers owner leading a group of buyers makes more sense, personally.

Other than milking money, I can't really see a reason for Jodi to hang on to the team...she comes to games, so who knows, maybe she actually likes being an owner. (shrug). For her part, it's pretty easy to pile onto her given (to my knowledge) she's never given a public statement or interview about the situation...

I think owners get a bump of money when the league goes through an expansion. Maybe she's holding out for that...

I don't think she's a great owner and based on the reports we got on her years ago, she is decidedly not a good person.

But she's invested money into the team, its buildings, staff, programs. She attends games. I don't think she's a bad owner. I think she's probably pretty middle of the pack. We could have it a lot worse.

I also am not a fan of the Phil Knight idea.

Yeah, I agree that she's not a BAD owner...there certainly have been a lot worse. But I don't think she's particularly engaged with the development of the franchise, my sense is that she's doing her due diligence to set up maximum profit in the sale of the team, eventually.

I don't know the details of what or how that sale will eventually happen, other than the proceeds go to charity...however, if she acts as a principal broker in the deal, she can still bank A LOT of money on a % of the sale. I'm sure she'll have that set up with her business/legal teams.

[BlazersBroncos]

Clingan 28 / Sabonis 20
Sabonis 14 / Grant 34 / Time Lord, Reath
Deni 34 / Toumani 14
Toumani 18 / Ant 16 / Thybulle, Rupert, Banton 14
Scoot 32 / Ant 16

Who starts to be determined. Who plays with whom to be determined. Additional moves possible to likely.

It’s a playoff team, IMHO. [all theoretical, of course]

I think you need a guy like Sharpe if your bringing Sabonis in. Someone who can get their own shot at will.

I like the Sabonis but wouldnt do the move if it cost more than Ayton, Simons and the FRP. I would want to see this roster -

G - Scoot Henderson (32) / ??? (16)
G - Shadeon Sharpe (32) / Matisse Thybulle (16)
F - Toumani Camara (30) / Jerami Grant (18)
F - Deni Avdija (34) / Domantas Sabonis (12) / Jerami Grant (2)
C - Domantas Sabonis (20) / Donovan Clingan (28)

[dckingsfan]

Clingan 28 / Sabonis 20
Sabonis 14 / Grant 34 / Time Lord, Reath
Deni 34 / Toumani 14
Toumani 18 / Ant 16 / Thybulle, Rupert, Banton 14
Scoot 32 / Ant 16

Who starts to be determined. Who plays with whom to be determined. Additional moves possible to likely.

It’s a playoff team, IMHO. [all theoretical, of course]

I think you need a guy like Sharpe if your bringing Sabonis in. Someone who can get their own shot at will.

I like the Sabonis but wouldnt do the move if it cost more than Ayton, Simons and the FRP. I would want to see this roster -

G - Scoot Henderson (32) / ??? (16)
G - Shadeon Sharpe (32) / Matisse Thybulle (16)
F - Toumani Camara (30) / Jerami Grant (18)
F - Deni Avdija (34) / Domantas Sabonis (12) / Jerami Grant (2)
C - Domantas Sabonis (20) / Donovan Clingan (28)

A couple of things. How do you make Simons + Ayton for Sabonis work? You would need to add other players from Sac.

I am guessing that Sac that is really deep with guards (Lavine, DeRozen, Monk, Ellis & Carter) doesn't want more guards?

If you have Sabonis, my guess is the starting lineup would look like:

Sabonis/Camara/Grant/Avdija/PG. Both Sabonis and Avdija are great second option ball handlers (and both push the ball after rebounds).

Thybulle, Walker and Clingan would come off the bench along with the backup PG.

IMO, Sharpe doesn't fit that well in this case. Our outgoing assets would be our pick + Sharpe + Ayton. Guessing a 3rd team would be required?

Also, guessing that Sac would want AT LEAST Ayton, Sharpe and the FRP - ouch. Given Cronin's adverse reaction to these things, guessing no?

Although that is most definitely a playoff team even in the west.

[DusterBuster]

Clingan 28 / Sabonis 20
Sabonis 14 / Grant 34 / Time Lord, Reath
Deni 34 / Toumani 14
Toumani 18 / Ant 16 / Thybulle, Rupert, Banton 14
Scoot 32 / Ant 16

Who starts to be determined. Who plays with whom to be determined. Additional moves possible to likely.

It’s a playoff team, IMHO. [all theoretical, of course]

Oooff, C->PG is a weird read.

You're also never convincing Ant to come off the bench here. I'm pretty confident he's going to ... not "demand" a trade ... but make it very clear he's OK being moved and that he'd like Cronin to see what's out there.

[tester551]

I'm pretty confident he's going to ... not "demand" a trade ... but make it very clear he's OK being moved and that he'd like Cronin to see what's out there.

Im fairly sure Simons has already had that discussion... last year. And probably 2-3 additional times throughout the season

[BlazersBroncos]

What about this one -

PDX OUT - Jerami Grant + Anfernee Simons + PDX FRP (9)
PDX IN - Lauri Markkanen + Jordan Clarkson + DEN FRP (22)

UTA OUT - Lauri Markkanen + Jordan Clarkson + DAL SRP (44)
UTA IN - Jerami Grant + Kentavious Caldwell-Pope + Anthony Black + PDX FRP (9)

ORL OUT - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope + Anthony Black + DEN FRP (22)
ORL IN - Anfernee Simons + DAL SRP (44)

PDX makes a win-now move w/ Lauri, moves Simons but retains a vet bench gunner in Clarkson and remains in the draft w/ the DEN FRP
UTA cashes in on Lauri - Grant has a bad deal but its a year shorter than Lauri - they get a Top-10 pick and a nice prospect in Black.
ORL moves off KCP and gets the guard scorer/shooter they need.

G - Scoot Henderson / Jordan Clarkson / Walter Clayton JR (22)
G - Shadeon Sharpe / Matisse Thybulle / Walter Clayton JR (22)
F - Deni Avdija / Toumani Camara / Rayan Rupert
F - Lauri Markkanen / Toumani Camara / Kris Murray
C - DeAndre Ayton / Donovan Clingan / Robert Williams III / Duop Reath

[zzaj]

What about this one -

PDX OUT - Jerami Grant + Anfernee Simons + PDX FRP (9)
PDX IN - Lauri Markkanen + Jordan Clarkson + DEN FRP (22)

UTA OUT - Lauri Markkanen + Jordan Clarkson + DAL SRP (44)
UTA IN - Jerami Grant + Kentavious Caldwell-Pope + Anthony Black + PDX FRP (9)

ORL OUT - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope + Anthony Black + DEN FRP (22)
ORL IN - Anfernee Simons + DAL SRP (44)

PDX makes a win-now move w/ Lauri, moves Simons but retains a vet bench gunner in Clarkson and remains in the draft w/ the DEN FRP
UTA cashes in on Lauri - Grant has a bad deal but its a year shorter than Lauri - they get a Top-10 pick and a nice prospect in Black.
ORL moves off KCP and gets the guard scorer/shooter they need.

G - Scoot Henderson / Jordan Clarkson / Walter Clayton JR (22)
G - Shadeon Sharpe / Matisse Thybulle / Walter Clayton JR (22)
F - Deni Avdija / Toumani Camara / Rayan Rupert
F - Lauri Markkanen / Toumani Camara / Kris Murray
C - DeAndre Ayton / Donovan Clingan / Robert Williams III / Duop Reath

Looking at it from Utah's side, I'm not sure they do this...maaaaaaybe if they end up falling back to 6th, but probably not even then--especially with Ainge at their helm.

Mike Richmond has a good podcast up right now comparing the Blazer and Utah "rebuilds". In it he talks about the similarities of where the two teams are at and how Utah jumped the gun on getting good, missing out on Wemby, Thompson twins, even Scoot over George...and now they had to tank back another season in order to try and find a franchise player. Are the Blazers going to be in the same place in a couple of years?

I'm personally not a Lauri believer--he misses at least a quarter of a season every year and as a 27 year old he's trending in the wrong direction statistically.

[Wizenheimer]

Spoiler:

What about this one -

PDX OUT - Jerami Grant + Anfernee Simons + PDX FRP (9)
PDX IN - Lauri Markkanen + Jordan Clarkson + DEN FRP (22)

UTA OUT - Lauri Markkanen + Jordan Clarkson + DAL SRP (44)
UTA IN - Jerami Grant + Kentavious Caldwell-Pope + Anthony Black + PDX FRP (9)

ORL OUT - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope + Anthony Black + DEN FRP (22)
ORL IN - Anfernee Simons + DAL SRP (44)

PDX makes a win-now move w/ Lauri, moves Simons but retains a vet bench gunner in Clarkson and remains in the draft w/ the DEN FRP
UTA cashes in on Lauri - Grant has a bad deal but its a year shorter than Lauri - they get a Top-10 pick and a nice prospect in Black.
ORL moves off KCP and gets the guard scorer/shooter they need.

G - Scoot Henderson / Jordan Clarkson / Walter Clayton JR (22)
G - Shadeon Sharpe / Matisse Thybulle / Walter Clayton JR (22)
F - Deni Avdija / Toumani Camara / Rayan Rupert
F - Lauri Markkanen / Toumani Camara / Kris Murray
C - DeAndre Ayton / Donovan Clingan / Robert Williams III / Duop Reath

Looking at it from Utah's side, I'm not sure they do this...maaaaaaybe if they end up falling back to 6th, but probably not even then--especially with Ainge at their helm.

Mike Richmond has a good podcast up right now comparing the Blazer and Utah "rebuilds". In it he talks about the similarities of where the two teams are at and how Utah jumped the gun on getting good, missing out on Wemby, Thompson twins, even Scoot over George...and now they had to tank back another season in order to try and find a franchise player. Are the Blazers going to be in the same place in a couple of years?

I'm personally not a Lauri believer--he misses at least a quarter of a season every year and as a 27 year old he's trending in the wrong direction statistically.

last first: Markkanen is a good player but he is a major injury risk (hard to tell how serious injuries are in tank seasons). But he's not good enough to warrant 49M/year for the next 4 seasons. That could turn into an albatross contract

the future of Utah vs the future of Portland? Jazz are guaranteed at least a top-5 pick in the next draft; likely a top-4 pick and could be #1. They also have the current 19th pick that could be 14th if Minny gets upset in the play-in. That points out that over the next 7 seasons, Utah has 11 first round picks vs Portland with 8; and a passel of 2nd round picks more than Portland. That's an edge for rebuilding teams, although it sure doesn't look like Cronin is invested in a rebuild

Utah does have an all-star in Markkanen. That could be a step up the ladder the Blazers haven't taken. Utah has Markkanen; Blazers have Avdija. Utah has Keyonte George; Blazers have Scoot. Utah has Kessler; Blazers have Clingan. Utah has Sexton; Blazers have Simons. Utah has Collins; Blazers have Grant. What Utah doesn't have are Sharpe and Camara equivalents. What Portland doesn't have are Flipowski and Sensabaugh equivalents.

I'd say the two teams, in terms of rebuilds are in similar boats rowing in similar waters. The 2025 draft could change that significantly. But I'd have a lot more confidence in Ainge as a captain than in Cronin as a captain (with Kolde peering over his shoulder)

[DusterBuster]

I'm not a big fan of Markkanen. He's had a couple good seasons and I like his style of play, I just don't believe what we've seen is something that's sustainable or longterm. I think his Utah play was more flash-in-the-pan and a stint of circumstance vs actually talent.