Building around Coby-Giddey-Matas

[WindyCityBorn]

Realistically do you see this franchise signing BOTH Cody and Giddey to huge multi year deals?

Sorry, but I dont

Yes they will. Why wouldn’t they?

[WindyCityBorn]

Any chance that Coby-Giddey-Matas could be the core (or at least 3 of 5 starters) on a contender is IMO 100% reliant on very strong defenders at the remaining two starting spots. At least 1 of which also need to the a good shooter, and at least one of which can attack the basket as a lob or slashing threat. IMO it could work, but that's the only way. No chance if it's guys like Collins and Huerter in those spots.

I think that is obvious. We need a defensive rim running center and elite 3 to pair with Buzelis.

Thankfully I think Buzelis has All-Defense 1st team potential.

[DuckIII]

Any chance that Coby-Giddey-Matas could be the core (or at least 3 of 5 starters) on a contender is IMO 100% reliant on very strong defenders at the remaining two starting spots. At least 1 of which also need to the a good shooter, and at least one of which can attack the basket as a lob or slashing threat. IMO it could work, but that's the only way. No chance if it's guys like Collins and Huerter in those spots.

On a contender? They’ll need an elite NBA star as well. Unless Matas proves to be that, which is certainly not a given at all.

[Bulliever2020]

Every time someone cites the 2 months the Bulls were in 1st where they had a soft schedule and 1 player going down destroying the entire thing as evidence of success in the AKME tenure I throw up in my mouth a little bit. That proves nothing.

[DuckIII]

Every time someone cites the 2 months the Bulls were in 1st where they had a soft schedule and 1 player going down destroying the entire thing as evidence of success in the AKME tenure I throw up in my mouth a little bit. That proves nothing.

It proves he built a solid competitor by trading away a bunch of assets, albeit one with zero margin for error. But that’s all it proves.

[Am2626]

That was the year that the end of year meaningless wins took them out of a chance to draft in the top 5 where 4 out of the top 5 picks ended up having Hall of Fame Careers. I guess those end of season wins really must have been worth it.

That's why I'll never understand the people who cry about fans that want loses/tanking so we can get better draft position. Are they so short sighted that they can't see the benefit to getting a better draft spot? It's crazy to me.

It's pretty simple.

One, it's cheating. Deliberately losing and/or making your team worse is the opposite of what the NBA wants and horrible for sports. Like those people who bowl bad when they join a league so they can get more pins. Some people don't think shady moves pay off. Worst part of the season is the end, when teams are fighting to lose more games rather than win.

Two. You're not guaranteed a higher pick anyway, especially if you're not a bottom 3 team. The year we drafted Derrick Rose we had a 1.7% chance. Most teams in the lottery will not draft at their predicted position.

Three: People watch basketball for different reasons. Many for love of the game, not championship aspirations. If it's all about championships, you guys can stop watching and following the Bulls for the next 3-4 years. Many people would much prefer to watch their team win 42 games than 20. Not about short-sighted. Much easier to go from a 42 win team to a 50-55 win team than a 20-win team.

Four: The old superstars in the league are still here every draft. If you draft the next Ja Morant or Paulo Banchero, you're still not winning for a very long time while Giannis, Luka, Tatum, Jokic, Wemby, etc are in the league.

Five: It's completely unfair and bad for young players already on the team. Wastes a year of their development, a year of them being on a cheap contract, for a slightly higher chance to move up in the draft and maybe avoid drafting Greg Oden or Patrick Williams.

Six: You can add a star in free agency. Lebron's moved several times, KD has, Harden has, Kyrie has, Brandon Ingram, Derozan has, Zach has, SGA added through trade. Lakers just got Luka, we've been talking about Zion and Ja.

Most recent championship superstars over the last decade include Giannis (late 1st), Jimmy Butler (late 1st), Steph Curry (#7 pick), Jokic (second round pick), SGA (#11, not there yet but MVP level), Jayson Tatum (#3 pick). Tatum's drafted the highest and is the worst of the bunch, needs a fully loaded All Star. team to win.

Maybe focus on building your team the right way, Draft well at your positions like SA usually does, add rising young players like OKC did with the Paul George trade, find second round free agents gems, overseas players like Yabusele, castoffs like Patty Mills. Develop your own young players. Trade veteran players for picks from other teams, so you don't have to suck to get a high draft pick. Like the reigning champs did.

So many ways to improve your team without tanking, yet people keep wanting to focus on the worst, lowest probability way to add a star. You damn near have to be a bottom 3-4 team to significantly improve your draft odds at a top pick. Sad when people claiming to be fans are the people rooting for the team to lose. Who's going to root for our young guys to win then? Who's standing behind Coby, Ball, Giddey, Matas, Zach, Vucevic, Smith, Ayo, guys who play their hearts out for us and represent this team with honor and no problems, if not their own fans?

The fact that most years there are star drafted 5 and later makes it even worse. The 8th worst team has a 32% chance of getting a top 4 pick. The worst team has a 14% chance of getting the number 1 pick. And guys are pinning their dreams on Cooper Flagg. Not a single one of these draftees looks like they'll be the number 1 on a championship team, though one or two could surprise.

I want you to think about 2 drafts in particular. One the 2003 draft and the other the 2018 draft.In each of the respective seasons leading up to each draft there was very poor roster construction, reluctance to move away from players until it was too late, meaningless end of season wins, etc. In 2003 it was Jalen Rose, Eddie Robinson, and Donyell Marshall. In 2018 it was Nikola Mirotić and late season signing of Sean Kilpatrick. The decisions to hold onto players for too long (Niko) riding on washed up vets (Jalen Rose) signing players like Kilpatrick prevented the Bulls from drafting a franchise changing player. Then refusing trade one of those players in Donyell Marshall to draft Wade or Bosh ended up with the Bulls drafting someone in Hinrich that solidified the ceiling for the Bulls for years. In 2018 is was Wendall Carter instead of Luka.

I see a lot of similarities this year with holding onto Zach LaVine too long and not getting a good return from him to winning games like the last one with Vuc that has no future with this team to prioritizing winning to the detriment of losing draft position for the chance to get embarrassed in the playoffs. The OKC game should tell you that this team is not very good. Expect this team to regress again next year like they did in each of the two seasons after the 2003 and 2018 drafts.

By the way SA got the number one pick and drafted Wemby. When did this Bulls team do anything like that?

[League Circles]

Any chance that Coby-Giddey-Matas could be the core (or at least 3 of 5 starters) on a contender is IMO 100% reliant on very strong defenders at the remaining two starting spots. At least 1 of which also need to the a good shooter, and at least one of which can attack the basket as a lob or slashing threat. IMO it could work, but that's the only way. No chance if it's guys like Collins and Huerter in those spots.

On a contender? They’ll need an elite NBA star as well. Unless Matas proves to be that, which is certainly not a given at all.

I think with the right 4th and 5th guys they'd have a chance without an elite star. Like the 2004 Pistons or 2014 Spurs that both actually won a title without an elite star, or the Knicks or Rockets that are current top 5 record teams without an elite star IMO.

[Infinity2152]

That's why I'll never understand the people who cry about fans that want loses/tanking so we can get better draft position. Are they so short sighted that they can't see the benefit to getting a better draft spot? It's crazy to me.

It's pretty simple.

One, it's cheating. Deliberately losing and/or making your team worse is the opposite of what the NBA wants and horrible for sports. Like those people who bowl bad when they join a league so they can get more pins. Some people don't think shady moves pay off. Worst part of the season is the end, when teams are fighting to lose more games rather than win.

Two. You're not guaranteed a higher pick anyway, especially if you're not a bottom 3 team. The year we drafted Derrick Rose we had a 1.7% chance. Most teams in the lottery will not draft at their predicted position.

Three: People watch basketball for different reasons. Many for love of the game, not championship aspirations. If it's all about championships, you guys can stop watching and following the Bulls for the next 3-4 years. Many people would much prefer to watch their team win 42 games than 20. Not about short-sighted. Much easier to go from a 42 win team to a 50-55 win team than a 20-win team.

Four: The old superstars in the league are still here every draft. If you draft the next Ja Morant or Paulo Banchero, you're still not winning for a very long time while Giannis, Luka, Tatum, Jokic, Wemby, etc are in the league.

Five: It's completely unfair and bad for young players already on the team. Wastes a year of their development, a year of them being on a cheap contract, for a slightly higher chance to move up in the draft and maybe avoid drafting Greg Oden or Patrick Williams.

Six: You can add a star in free agency. Lebron's moved several times, KD has, Harden has, Kyrie has, Brandon Ingram, Derozan has, Zach has, SGA added through trade. Lakers just got Luka, we've been talking about Zion and Ja.

Most recent championship superstars over the last decade include Giannis (late 1st), Jimmy Butler (late 1st), Steph Curry (#7 pick), Jokic (second round pick), SGA (#11, not there yet but MVP level), Jayson Tatum (#3 pick). Tatum's drafted the highest and is the worst of the bunch, needs a fully loaded All Star. team to win.

Maybe focus on building your team the right way, Draft well at your positions like SA usually does, add rising young players like OKC did with the Paul George trade, find second round free agents gems, overseas players like Yabusele, castoffs like Patty Mills. Develop your own young players. Trade veteran players for picks from other teams, so you don't have to suck to get a high draft pick. Like the reigning champs did.

So many ways to improve your team without tanking, yet people keep wanting to focus on the worst, lowest probability way to add a star. You damn near have to be a bottom 3-4 team to significantly improve your draft odds at a top pick. Sad when people claiming to be fans are the people rooting for the team to lose. Who's going to root for our young guys to win then? Who's standing behind Coby, Ball, Giddey, Matas, Zach, Vucevic, Smith, Ayo, guys who play their hearts out for us and represent this team with honor and no problems, if not their own fans?

The fact that most years there are star drafted 5 and later makes it even worse. The 8th worst team has a 32% chance of getting a top 4 pick. The worst team has a 14% chance of getting the number 1 pick. And guys are pinning their dreams on Cooper Flagg. Not a single one of these draftees looks like they'll be the number 1 on a championship team, though one or two could surprise.

I want you to think about 2 drafts in particular. One the 2003 draft and the other the 2018 draft.In each of the respective seasons leading up to each draft there was very poor roster construction, reluctance to move away from players until it was too late, meaningless end of season wins, etc. In 2003 it was Jalen Rose, Eddie Robinson, and Donyell Marshall. In 2018 it was Nikola Mirotić and late season signing of Sean Kilpatrick. The decisions to hold onto players for too long (Niko) riding on washed up vets (Jalen Rose) signing players like Kilpatrick prevented the Bulls from drafting a franchise changing player. Then refusing trade one of those players in Donyell Marshall to draft Wade or Bosh ended up with the Bulls drafting someone in Hinrich that solidified the ceiling for the Bulls for years. In 2018 is was Wendall Carter instead of Luka.

I see a lot of similarities this year with holding onto Zach LaVine too long and not getting a good return from him to winning games like the last one with Vuc that has no future with this team to prioritizing winning to the detriment of losing draft position for the chance to get embarrassed in the playoffs. The OKC game should tell you that this team is not very good. Expect this team to regress again next year like they did in each of the two seasons after the 2003 and 2018 drafts.

By the way SA got the number one pick and drafted Wemby. When did this Bulls team do anything like that?

Don't know that a blowout loss against a team with the best record in the league shows that they're not a good team. They're 7-3 in their last 10. They should be better next year instead of regressing, most of their players are young and they're adding a lottery rookie. Why would they be worse? Not arguing they're a top team now, but they have a solid young core and will have money to add veteran stars in 2026.

Bulls got number 1 pick and drafted Rose. What's the difference between the Spurs drafting Wemby? Why are we talking about the Spurs, they were in the 5th spot and lucked into the #1 pick with a 10.5% chance. All the other teams that tanked including the worst team missed him.

And to be honest, done for the day arguing coulda woulda shoulda. There's no way to know what we would have gotten in return for those guys, and we likely don't have Matas with a different record drafting in a different position. Or that Zach trade gets us a higher pick and we still end up with Matas, but we picked him at pick 5 for more money. Prefer to look at where we are now, 3 good-great young pieces and a lottery pick coming, plus a ton of cap space in a year. If that looks bad to you, so be it.

[League Circles]

Any chance that Coby-Giddey-Matas could be the core (or at least 3 of 5 starters) on a contender is IMO 100% reliant on very strong defenders at the remaining two starting spots. At least 1 of which also need to the a good shooter, and at least one of which can attack the basket as a lob or slashing threat. IMO it could work, but that's the only way. No chance if it's guys like Collins and Huerter in those spots.

I think that obvious. We literally defensive rim running center and elite 3 to pair with Buzelis.

Thankfully I think Buzelis has All-Defense 1st team potential.

I'm afraid it's not obvious to everyone, because we have plenty of people flirting with ideas like drafting guys with our pick this summer who will never be great defenders, or commiting to a guy like Huerter, etc.

Coby and Giddey just aren't that helpful if they're in more limited offensive roles and/or not flanked by much better defenders. I do agree on Buzelis' potential on D, as well as on offense.

[NecessaryEvil]

The OKC game?? They’re 28-1 vs the east this yr, fully healthy and historically great on both sides of the ball. That loss doesn’t say much of anything at all.

[WindyCityBorn]

Any chance that Coby-Giddey-Matas could be the core (or at least 3 of 5 starters) on a contender is IMO 100% reliant on very strong defenders at the remaining two starting spots. At least 1 of which also need to the a good shooter, and at least one of which can attack the basket as a lob or slashing threat. IMO it could work, but that's the only way. No chance if it's guys like Collins and Huerter in those spots.

On a contender? They’ll need an elite NBA star as well. Unless Matas proves to be that, which is certainly not a given at all.

Ideally you get this current core to show enough potential in the next year or two that disgruntled a YOUNG star would want to come here. I don’t know who that star would be, but I think that’s plan other than getting lucky in the draft. I think we are selling selling Buzelis short though. I think he can be one if the best two way players in the NBA. Efficient 20 ppg scorer and 1st team all-defense. And if Coby is a legit 25 ppg scorer than part is covered too. Giddey is one off best facilitators in the NBA and a walking triple double.

I would happily tajeca young team that can win 50 plus games while having the picks and other assets to go all in on a star if one becomes available. We currently own all of our picks and need to keep it that way unless it it’s a trade for young top 15 player.

[sco]

Any chance that Coby-Giddey-Matas could be the core (or at least 3 of 5 starters) on a contender is IMO 100% reliant on very strong defenders at the remaining two starting spots. At least 1 of which also need to the a good shooter, and at least one of which can attack the basket as a lob or slashing threat. IMO it could work, but that's the only way. No chance if it's guys like Collins and Huerter in those spots.

I think that obvious. We literally defensive rim running center and elite 3 to pair with Buzelis.

Thankfully I think Buzelis has All-Defense 1st team potential.

I'm afraid it's not obvious to everyone, because we have plenty of people flirting with ideas like drafting guys with our pick this summer who will never be great defenders, or commiting to a guy like Huerter, etc.

Coby and Giddey just aren't that helpful if they're in more limited offensive roles and/or not flanked by much better defenders. I do agree on Buzelis' potential on D, as well as on offense.

While I totally agree that we should focus on getting elite defense in our other 2 positions. I think the right move to address one spot is to keep Jones (now probably on a better deal given that he'll probably not play again this season which could lower his price tag a little). Then we'd have both Jones and Ball. The C spot I worry about getting Sabonis for the obvious reasons. Good defensive bigs aren't too expensive and we should be on the look out for one...there are actually a number of very good ones on other teams' benches that may be gettable for something like Ayo and/or the POR pick. Our draft should just be the BPA without regard for defensive need or position because we may luck out and get another great player. We're probably not contending with that team...I think we are a bit too excited about our trio given that most of our wins have been against teams without key guys or tankers, but regardless, it is a path that we can pursue that offers us a chance, which is more that I thought we'd have going into this season.

[Infinity2152]

Guys are bringing up a good point with the defensive need vs offensive. Helps us out, offensive players generally go higher than defensive ones. Best defensive forward/centers in the lottery? Flagg, Maluach, Hugo Gonzalez, Flory Bidunga, any players where you think their defense makes them lottery worthy, even if they're not projected there?

BPA is great, but I imagine around 10 or so a team has several players rated about the same, unless there's a huge drop. That's when fit becomes important. We have an offensive guard rated around the same as a defensive forward or center, makes sense to take the defensive player.

[League Circles]

I think that obvious. We literally defensive rim running center and elite 3 to pair with Buzelis.

Thankfully I think Buzelis has All-Defense 1st team potential.

I'm afraid it's not obvious to everyone, because we have plenty of people flirting with ideas like drafting guys with our pick this summer who will never be great defenders, or commiting to a guy like Huerter, etc.

Coby and Giddey just aren't that helpful if they're in more limited offensive roles and/or not flanked by much better defenders. I do agree on Buzelis' potential on D, as well as on offense.

While I totally agree that we should focus on getting elite defense in our other 2 positions. I think the right move to address one spot is to keep Jones (now probably on a better deal given that he'll probably not play again this season which could lower his price tag a little). Then we'd have both Jones and Ball. The C spot I worry about getting Sabonis for the obvious reasons. Good defensive bigs aren't too expensive and we should be on the look out for one...there are actually a number of very good ones on other teams' benches that may be gettable for something like Ayo and/or the POR pick. Our draft should just be the BPA without regard for defensive need or position because we may luck out and get another great player. We're probably not contending with that team...I think we are a bit too excited about our trio given that most of our wins have been against teams without key guys or tankers, but regardless, it is a path that we can pursue that offers us a chance, which is more that I thought we'd have going into this season.

I like Jones and I'm open to keeping him, but only to run the 2nd team offense or maybe start if Giddey gets hurt. He's a good defender but only at the 1 position, and IMO we need more of a wing defender to help Giddey. Also Jones isn't a good enough three point shooter IMO.

As for C, I don't think we just need a good defender. I think we need a really good defender and a guy that can either attack the basket for lobs and garbage points and offensive rebounds, or space the floor a bit as a shooter.

I see Jalen Smith as having an outside chance to be the type of C we need, and Ball, Ayo and actually even Dalen Terry to have an outside chance to be the type of wing defender/shooter we need. So in the draft, I want to take the best player available that projects as most likely to either be better in the C role than Smith, or better in the wing defender than Ball/Ayo/Terry. Ball would be pretty ideal but I don't trust him to stay healthy and I'm still actually not totally sold on him as a shooter. Ayo I like but think he's not quite good enough for the role I envision on either offense or defense. Dalen I think can be the defender I want, but probably not the shooter.

[Am2626]

It's pretty simple.

One, it's cheating. Deliberately losing and/or making your team worse is the opposite of what the NBA wants and horrible for sports. Like those people who bowl bad when they join a league so they can get more pins. Some people don't think shady moves pay off. Worst part of the season is the end, when teams are fighting to lose more games rather than win.

Two. You're not guaranteed a higher pick anyway, especially if you're not a bottom 3 team. The year we drafted Derrick Rose we had a 1.7% chance. Most teams in the lottery will not draft at their predicted position.

Three: People watch basketball for different reasons. Many for love of the game, not championship aspirations. If it's all about championships, you guys can stop watching and following the Bulls for the next 3-4 years. Many people would much prefer to watch their team win 42 games than 20. Not about short-sighted. Much easier to go from a 42 win team to a 50-55 win team than a 20-win team.

Four: The old superstars in the league are still here every draft. If you draft the next Ja Morant or Paulo Banchero, you're still not winning for a very long time while Giannis, Luka, Tatum, Jokic, Wemby, etc are in the league.

Five: It's completely unfair and bad for young players already on the team. Wastes a year of their development, a year of them being on a cheap contract, for a slightly higher chance to move up in the draft and maybe avoid drafting Greg Oden or Patrick Williams.

Six: You can add a star in free agency. Lebron's moved several times, KD has, Harden has, Kyrie has, Brandon Ingram, Derozan has, Zach has, SGA added through trade. Lakers just got Luka, we've been talking about Zion and Ja.

Most recent championship superstars over the last decade include Giannis (late 1st), Jimmy Butler (late 1st), Steph Curry (#7 pick), Jokic (second round pick), SGA (#11, not there yet but MVP level), Jayson Tatum (#3 pick). Tatum's drafted the highest and is the worst of the bunch, needs a fully loaded All Star. team to win.

Maybe focus on building your team the right way, Draft well at your positions like SA usually does, add rising young players like OKC did with the Paul George trade, find second round free agents gems, overseas players like Yabusele, castoffs like Patty Mills. Develop your own young players. Trade veteran players for picks from other teams, so you don't have to suck to get a high draft pick. Like the reigning champs did.

So many ways to improve your team without tanking, yet people keep wanting to focus on the worst, lowest probability way to add a star. You damn near have to be a bottom 3-4 team to significantly improve your draft odds at a top pick. Sad when people claiming to be fans are the people rooting for the team to lose. Who's going to root for our young guys to win then? Who's standing behind Coby, Ball, Giddey, Matas, Zach, Vucevic, Smith, Ayo, guys who play their hearts out for us and represent this team with honor and no problems, if not their own fans?

The fact that most years there are star drafted 5 and later makes it even worse. The 8th worst team has a 32% chance of getting a top 4 pick. The worst team has a 14% chance of getting the number 1 pick. And guys are pinning their dreams on Cooper Flagg. Not a single one of these draftees looks like they'll be the number 1 on a championship team, though one or two could surprise.

I want you to think about 2 drafts in particular. One the 2003 draft and the other the 2018 draft.In each of the respective seasons leading up to each draft there was very poor roster construction, reluctance to move away from players until it was too late, meaningless end of season wins, etc. In 2003 it was Jalen Rose, Eddie Robinson, and Donyell Marshall. In 2018 it was Nikola Mirotić and late season signing of Sean Kilpatrick. The decisions to hold onto players for too long (Niko) riding on washed up vets (Jalen Rose) signing players like Kilpatrick prevented the Bulls from drafting a franchise changing player. Then refusing trade one of those players in Donyell Marshall to draft Wade or Bosh ended up with the Bulls drafting someone in Hinrich that solidified the ceiling for the Bulls for years. In 2018 is was Wendall Carter instead of Luka.

I see a lot of similarities this year with holding onto Zach LaVine too long and not getting a good return from him to winning games like the last one with Vuc that has no future with this team to prioritizing winning to the detriment of losing draft position for the chance to get embarrassed in the playoffs. The OKC game should tell you that this team is not very good. Expect this team to regress again next year like they did in each of the two seasons after the 2003 and 2018 drafts.

By the way SA got the number one pick and drafted Wemby. When did this Bulls team do anything like that?

Don't know that a blowout loss against a team with the best record in the league shows that they're not a good team. They're 7-3 in their last 10. They should be better next year instead of regressing, most of their players are young and they're adding a lottery rookie. Why would they be worse? Not arguing they're a top team now, but they have a solid young core and will have money to add veteran stars in 2026.

Bulls got number 1 pick and drafted Rose. What's the difference between the Spurs drafting Wemby? Why are we talking about the Spurs, they were in the 5th spot and lucked into the #1 pick with a 10.5% chance. All the other teams that tanked including the worst team missed him.

And to be honest, done for the day arguing coulda woulda shoulda. There's no way to know what we would have gotten in return for those guys, and we likely don't have Matas with a different record drafting in a different position. Or that Zach trade gets us a higher pick and we still end up with Matas, but we picked him at pick 5 for more money. Prefer to look at where we are now, 3 good-great young pieces and a lottery pick coming, plus a ton of cap space in a year. If that looks bad to you, so be it.

A 7-3 record right now is not the same as it would be at the beginning of the season where ever team is competing or winning at this clip in the playoffs where everyone turns it up another gear. We will see how good this team actually is when the playoffs start.

The last 3 wins were against teams that are trying to improve their draft position instead of chasing wins that will amount to nothing next year. Another win was a Hail Mary buzzer beater by Giddey. That 7-3 record isn’t really that impressive when looking at it more closely.

Yes I like what Coby White is doing but he hasn’t proven anything yet. I would rather see him do this at the start of the year with a better lottery pick to add to this roster rather than picking 15 and ending up with someone less impactful. There are no guarantees that this will be sustainable into next year. Hope I’m wrong but I don’t think I am.

[NecessaryEvil]

Kawhi and Giannis were picked in the middle of the first right? Both 15th.

Just draft right, you technically never know who’ll become a star level talent.

[WindyCityBorn]

I want you to think about 2 drafts in particular. One the 2003 draft and the other the 2018 draft.In each of the respective seasons leading up to each draft there was very poor roster construction, reluctance to move away from players until it was too late, meaningless end of season wins, etc. In 2003 it was Jalen Rose, Eddie Robinson, and Donyell Marshall. In 2018 it was Nikola Mirotić and late season signing of Sean Kilpatrick. The decisions to hold onto players for too long (Niko) riding on washed up vets (Jalen Rose) signing players like Kilpatrick prevented the Bulls from drafting a franchise changing player. Then refusing trade one of those players in Donyell Marshall to draft Wade or Bosh ended up with the Bulls drafting someone in Hinrich that solidified the ceiling for the Bulls for years. In 2018 is was Wendall Carter instead of Luka.

I see a lot of similarities this year with holding onto Zach LaVine too long and not getting a good return from him to winning games like the last one with Vuc that has no future with this team to prioritizing winning to the detriment of losing draft position for the chance to get embarrassed in the playoffs. The OKC game should tell you that this team is not very good. Expect this team to regress again next year like they did in each of the two seasons after the 2003 and 2018 drafts.

By the way SA got the number one pick and drafted Wemby. When did this Bulls team do anything like that?

Don't know that a blowout loss against a team with the best record in the league shows that they're not a good team. They're 7-3 in their last 10. They should be better next year instead of regressing, most of their players are young and they're adding a lottery rookie. Why would they be worse? Not arguing they're a top team now, but they have a solid young core and will have money to add veteran stars in 2026.

Bulls got number 1 pick and drafted Rose. What's the difference between the Spurs drafting Wemby? Why are we talking about the Spurs, they were in the 5th spot and lucked into the #1 pick with a 10.5% chance. All the other teams that tanked including the worst team missed him.

And to be honest, done for the day arguing coulda woulda shoulda. There's no way to know what we would have gotten in return for those guys, and we likely don't have Matas with a different record drafting in a different position. Or that Zach trade gets us a higher pick and we still end up with Matas, but we picked him at pick 5 for more money. Prefer to look at where we are now, 3 good-great young pieces and a lottery pick coming, plus a ton of cap space in a year. If that looks bad to you, so be it.

A 7-3 record right now is not the same as it would be at the beginning of the season where ever team is competing or winning at this clip in the playoffs where everyone turns it up another gear. We will see how good this team actually is when the playoffs start.

The last 3 wins were against teams that are trying to improve their draft position instead of chasing wins that will amount to nothing next year. Another win was a Hail Mary buzzer beater by Giddey. That 7-3 record isn’t really that impressive when looking at it more closely.

Yes I like what Coby White is doing but he hasn’t proven anything yet. I would rather see him do this at the start of the year with a better lottery pick to add to this roster rather than picking 15 and ending up with someone less impactful. There are no guarantees that this will be sustainable into next year. Hope I’m wrong but I don’t think I am.

I’d rather have our current young players playing as well as possible instead depending on lottery balls to have any hope. Most lottery picks are busts. Most of the teams that are tanking are going to end up drafting disappointing players.

[Am2626]

Don't know that a blowout loss against a team with the best record in the league shows that they're not a good team. They're 7-3 in their last 10. They should be better next year instead of regressing, most of their players are young and they're adding a lottery rookie. Why would they be worse? Not arguing they're a top team now, but they have a solid young core and will have money to add veteran stars in 2026.

Bulls got number 1 pick and drafted Rose. What's the difference between the Spurs drafting Wemby? Why are we talking about the Spurs, they were in the 5th spot and lucked into the #1 pick with a 10.5% chance. All the other teams that tanked including the worst team missed him.

And to be honest, done for the day arguing coulda woulda shoulda. There's no way to know what we would have gotten in return for those guys, and we likely don't have Matas with a different record drafting in a different position. Or that Zach trade gets us a higher pick and we still end up with Matas, but we picked him at pick 5 for more money. Prefer to look at where we are now, 3 good-great young pieces and a lottery pick coming, plus a ton of cap space in a year. If that looks bad to you, so be it.

A 7-3 record right now is not the same as it would be at the beginning of the season where ever team is competing or winning at this clip in the playoffs where everyone turns it up another gear. We will see how good this team actually is when the playoffs start.

The last 3 wins were against teams that are trying to improve their draft position instead of chasing wins that will amount to nothing next year. Another win was a Hail Mary buzzer beater by Giddey. That 7-3 record isn’t really that impressive when looking at it more closely.

Yes I like what Coby White is doing but he hasn’t proven anything yet. I would rather see him do this at the start of the year with a better lottery pick to add to this roster rather than picking 15 and ending up with someone less impactful. There are no guarantees that this will be sustainable into next year. Hope I’m wrong but I don’t think I am.

I’d rather have our current young players playing as well as possible instead depending on lottery balls to have any hope. Most lottery picks are busts. Most of the teams that are tanking are going to end up drafting disappointing players.

No one is saying that the Bulls won’t have these young players next year. If one is moved it would have to be for a high level prospect and I don’t see a team with a top 4 pick giving that up for Giddey, White, or Matas. I also disagree with what you are saying about most lottery picks being busts. Do you feel that the three Bulls new core of White, Matas, and Giddey as being busts? Actually there was a time where people looked at both Giddey and White being busts but because these guys are still very young they can develop in to good players. I don’t see any of these 3 ever being franchise changing players though. They are good complementary players but they won’t carry a team to a championship. My concern is this push to get into the playoffs is not worth the loss of adding a lottery pick in a good draft. Getting into the playoffs means the Bulls also won’t get a chance at a top 4 pick. I like the top 8 picks and after that I see a big drop off so this recent winning surge might prevent the Bulls from adding an important piece to their core.

Also playing well right now won’t have any impact on next year. They need to have a good training camp and get out of the gates fast. If they can do that next year I will be a believer. Until then they haven’t done anything yet.

[WindyCityBorn]

A 7-3 record right now is not the same as it would be at the beginning of the season where ever team is competing or winning at this clip in the playoffs where everyone turns it up another gear. We will see how good this team actually is when the playoffs start.

The last 3 wins were against teams that are trying to improve their draft position instead of chasing wins that will amount to nothing next year. Another win was a Hail Mary buzzer beater by Giddey. That 7-3 record isn’t really that impressive when looking at it more closely.

Yes I like what Coby White is doing but he hasn’t proven anything yet. I would rather see him do this at the start of the year with a better lottery pick to add to this roster rather than picking 15 and ending up with someone less impactful. There are no guarantees that this will be sustainable into next year. Hope I’m wrong but I don’t think I am.

I’d rather have our current young players playing as well as possible instead depending on lottery balls to have any hope. Most lottery picks are busts. Most of the teams that are tanking are going to end up drafting disappointing players.

No one is saying that the Bulls won’t have these young players next year. If one is moved it would have to be for a high level prospect and I don’t see a team with a top 4 pick giving that up for Giddey, White, or Matas. I also disagree with what you are saying about most lottery picks being busts. Do you feel that the three Bulls new core of White, Matas, and Giddey as being busts? Actually there was a time where people looked at both Giddey and White being busts but because these guys are still very young they can develop in to good players. I don’t see any of these 3 ever being franchise changing players though. They are good complementary players but they won’t carry a team to a championship. My concern is this push to get into the playoffs is not worth the loss of adding a lottery pick in a good draft. Getting into the playoffs means the Bulls also won’t get a chance at a top 4 pick. I like the top 8 picks and after that I see a big drop off so this recent winning surge might prevent the Bulls from adding an important piece to their core.

Also playing well right now won’t have any impact on next year. They need to have a good training camp and get out of the gates fast. If they can do that next year I will be a believer. Until then they haven’t done anything yet.

I’d rather have another high draft pick too, but not if that means White and Giddey have to play worse to get it.

Of they wouldn’t trade a top 4 pick for them because those lottery picks are always overvalued based on hope for a franchise player.

[Am2626]

Any chance that Coby-Giddey-Matas could be the core (or at least 3 of 5 starters) on a contender is IMO 100% reliant on very strong defenders at the remaining two starting spots. At least 1 of which also need to the a good shooter, and at least one of which can attack the basket as a lob or slashing threat. IMO it could work, but that's the only way. No chance if it's guys like Collins and Huerter in those spots.

On a contender? They’ll need an elite NBA star as well. Unless Matas proves to be that, which is certainly not a given at all.

I think with the right 4th and 5th guys they'd have a chance without an elite star. Like the 2004 Pistons or 2014 Spurs that both actually won a title without an elite star, or the Knicks or Rockets that are current top 5 record teams without an elite star IMO.

That 2004 Pistons team was an anomaly and that group only won one championship. The 2014 Spurs had Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili all of which are Hall of Fame players. Yes it was later in their Careers but they all knew how to win and had championship experience that no one can teach. They also had a Hall of fame coach. If Jordan, Pippen and Phil Jackson all came back in 1999 and won a championship that year or the following year it would have been a similar situation.