LaVine traded to the Kings as part of 3 team deal (Huerter, Tre Jones to Bulls)

[coldfish]

Chicago Bulls in the last 15 games: 10-5

Sacramento Kings in the last 15 games: 4-11.

Kings when Zach Lavine scores 20+: 10-6 with 2 of the losses being in overtime.
When he scores under 20: 2-10

Kings when Lavine takes at least 14 shots: 9-8
Kings when he takes less than 14 shots: 3-8

Since Lavine joined the Kings:
Kings when DDR scores 20+ points: 9-13
When he scores under 20: 3-3

When DDR takes at least 14+ shots: 8-11
When he takes less than 14: 4-5

Now there are a lot of factors so I am not drawing any direct causation here. Just interesting numbers that at first glance might indicate the Kings need more of Lavine, and less of Derozan?

As far as the Bulls, Giddey's emergence and Coby's hot streak are the main reasons for the wins. It might indicate that Lavine was indeed holding back a couple of players from showing their full game. Of course, that would be like saying MJ held back Pippen. Was it true? Absolutely. So what? In Coby's case, he has had hot streaks before. I am hoping the confidence he gets from this end of season run carries over to where he actually plays a full season at a high level. He has had a magnificent 18 game run, with the exception of 1 game. His usage rate has been just under 30%. That's Zach Lavine before he had Vuc or DDR on the floor with him level.

During that time Giddey's usage has been just under 26%, he has averaged (rounded) 20/10/9 . He has had 5 triple-doubles and 4 double-doubles in 13 games played during that same 18 game stretch. Chicken or egg? Either way, Giddey seems to be the guy you could make a case for being held back by Lavine...which makes...absolutely no sense in a vacuum. Another head scratching "where was the head coach" situation.

The real Bulls question: Is winning with Coby and Giddey accounting for 55% of your offense sustainable against quality teams during tough stretches of schedule?

The one that concerns me is Coby. We have seen him go on heaters before and just . . . stop.

Giddey is basically doing what he always has when he plays PG with a marginally improved 3p shot and a little better defensive awareness. Its easy to say that this Giddey is what you would have expected with maturity and experience.

As far as the record, the Bulls have been playing terrible teams who are frequently intentionally trying to lose. I think people are losing sight of that.

[PaKii94]

Chicago Bulls in the last 15 games: 10-5

Sacramento Kings in the last 15 games: 4-11.

Kings when Zach Lavine scores 20+: 10-6 with 2 of the losses being in overtime.
When he scores under 20: 2-10

Kings when Lavine takes at least 14 shots: 9-8
Kings when he takes less than 14 shots: 3-8

Since Lavine joined the Kings:
Kings when DDR scores 20+ points: 9-13
When he scores under 20: 3-3

When DDR takes at least 14+ shots: 8-11
When he takes less than 14: 4-5

Now there are a lot of factors so I am not drawing any direct causation here. Just interesting numbers that at first glance might indicate the Kings need more of Lavine, and less of Derozan?

As far as the Bulls, Giddey's emergence and Coby's hot streak are the main reasons for the wins. It might indicate that Lavine was indeed holding back a couple of players from showing their full game. Of course, that would be like saying MJ held back Pippen. Was it true? Absolutely. So what? In Coby's case, he has had hot streaks before. I am hoping the confidence he gets from this end of season run carries over to where he actually plays a full season at a high level. He has had a magnificent 18 game run, with the exception of 1 game. His usage rate has been just under 30%. That's Zach Lavine before he had Vuc or DDR on the floor with him level.

During that time Giddey's usage has been just under 26%, he has averaged (rounded) 20/10/9 . He has had 5 triple-doubles and 4 double-doubles in 13 games played during that same 18 game stretch. Chicken or egg? Either way, Giddey seems to be the guy you could make a case for being held back by Lavine...which makes...absolutely no sense in a vacuum. Another head scratching "where was the head coach" situation.

The real Bulls question: Is winning with Coby and Giddey accounting for 55% of your offense sustainable against quality teams during tough stretches of schedule?

Chicken or the egg... Lavine has been doing his usual bum slaying against scrubs and wilting against the semi decent or better teams. The points/shots trend along with that

[Stratmaster]

Chicago Bulls in the last 15 games: 10-5

Sacramento Kings in the last 15 games: 4-11.

Kings when Zach Lavine scores 20+: 10-6 with 2 of the losses being in overtime.
When he scores under 20: 2-10

Kings when Lavine takes at least 14 shots: 9-8
Kings when he takes less than 14 shots: 3-8

Since Lavine joined the Kings:
Kings when DDR scores 20+ points: 9-13
When he scores under 20: 3-3

When DDR takes at least 14+ shots: 8-11
When he takes less than 14: 4-5

Now there are a lot of factors so I am not drawing any direct causation here. Just interesting numbers that at first glance might indicate the Kings need more of Lavine, and less of Derozan?

As far as the Bulls, Giddey's emergence and Coby's hot streak are the main reasons for the wins. It might indicate that Lavine was indeed holding back a couple of players from showing their full game. Of course, that would be like saying MJ held back Pippen. Was it true? Absolutely. So what? In Coby's case, he has had hot streaks before. I am hoping the confidence he gets from this end of season run carries over to where he actually plays a full season at a high level. He has had a magnificent 18 game run, with the exception of 1 game. His usage rate has been just under 30%. That's Zach Lavine before he had Vuc or DDR on the floor with him level.

During that time Giddey's usage has been just under 26%, he has averaged (rounded) 20/10/9 . He has had 5 triple-doubles and 4 double-doubles in 13 games played during that same 18 game stretch. Chicken or egg? Either way, Giddey seems to be the guy you could make a case for being held back by Lavine...which makes...absolutely no sense in a vacuum. Another head scratching "where was the head coach" situation.

The real Bulls question: Is winning with Coby and Giddey accounting for 55% of your offense sustainable against quality teams during tough stretches of schedule?

The one that concerns me is Coby. We have seen him go on heaters before and just . . . stop.

Giddey is basically doing what he always has when he plays PG with a marginally improved 3p shot and a little better defensive awareness. Its easy to say that this Giddey is what you would have expected with maturity and experience.

As far as the record, the Bulls have been playing terrible teams who are frequently intentionally trying to lose. I think people are losing sight of that.

Yep. Exactly.

Honestly, we had an offer accepted for a new house at almost exactly the time of the trade. Since then we have been packing 40 years worth of stuff, selling our old place, moving everything and having the new place completely remodeled. I am just now getting back to where I am not falling out exhausted after working 18 hours every day. All that to say I haven't watched a single minute of the Bulls, or Lavine, since the trade. Not because of the trade. Just the circumstances at the time.

I just posted in the Coby contract thread that I have seen these trailers at least twice, and I will believe it when I see the whole movie and it is as good as the trailers.

[Stratmaster]

Chicago Bulls in the last 15 games: 10-5

Sacramento Kings in the last 15 games: 4-11.

Kings when Zach Lavine scores 20+: 10-6 with 2 of the losses being in overtime.
When he scores under 20: 2-10

Kings when Lavine takes at least 14 shots: 9-8
Kings when he takes less than 14 shots: 3-8

Since Lavine joined the Kings:
Kings when DDR scores 20+ points: 9-13
When he scores under 20: 3-3

When DDR takes at least 14+ shots: 8-11
When he takes less than 14: 4-5

Now there are a lot of factors so I am not drawing any direct causation here. Just interesting numbers that at first glance might indicate the Kings need more of Lavine, and less of Derozan?

As far as the Bulls, Giddey's emergence and Coby's hot streak are the main reasons for the wins. It might indicate that Lavine was indeed holding back a couple of players from showing their full game. Of course, that would be like saying MJ held back Pippen. Was it true? Absolutely. So what? In Coby's case, he has had hot streaks before. I am hoping the confidence he gets from this end of season run carries over to where he actually plays a full season at a high level. He has had a magnificent 18 game run, with the exception of 1 game. His usage rate has been just under 30%. That's Zach Lavine before he had Vuc or DDR on the floor with him level.

During that time Giddey's usage has been just under 26%, he has averaged (rounded) 20/10/9 . He has had 5 triple-doubles and 4 double-doubles in 13 games played during that same 18 game stretch. Chicken or egg? Either way, Giddey seems to be the guy you could make a case for being held back by Lavine...which makes...absolutely no sense in a vacuum. Another head scratching "where was the head coach" situation.

The real Bulls question: Is winning with Coby and Giddey accounting for 55% of your offense sustainable against quality teams during tough stretches of schedule?

Chicken or the egg... Lavine has been doing his usual bum slaying against scrubs and wilting against the semi decent or better teams. The points/shots trend along with that

The chicken or egg was regarding Giddey and Coby. Which one is making the other better?

As far as Lavine goes, it's good to see that you haven't lost your passion about him.

[League Circles]

Yep. Exactly.

Honestly, we had an offer accepted for a new house at almost exactly the time of the trade. Since then we have been packing 40 years worth of stuff, selling our old place, moving everything and having the new place completely remodeled. I am just now getting back to where I am not falling out exhausted after working 18 hours every day. All that to say I haven't watched a single minute of the Bulls, or Lavine, since the trade. Not because of the trade. Just the circumstances at the time.

I just posted in the Coby contract thread that I have seen these trailers at least twice, and I will believe it when I see the whole movie and it is as good as the trailers.

If you had been watching the games you'd know more about how Coby has been so successful since Zach was traded. He's getting to the basket a LOT, and shooting an extremely high rate from there. He's having his best overall season by far. Highest efficiency by far and highest scoring frequency by a decent margin, and that's the season overall.

[Stratmaster]

Yep. Exactly.

Honestly, we had an offer accepted for a new house at almost exactly the time of the trade. Since then we have been packing 40 years worth of stuff, selling our old place, moving everything and having the new place completely remodeled. I am just now getting back to where I am not falling out exhausted after working 18 hours every day. All that to say I haven't watched a single minute of the Bulls, or Lavine, since the trade. Not because of the trade. Just the circumstances at the time.

I just posted in the Coby contract thread that I have seen these trailers at least twice, and I will believe it when I see the whole movie and it is as good as the trailers.

If you had been watching the games you'd know more about how Coby has been so successful since Zach was traded. He's getting to the basket a LOT, and shooting an extremely high rate from there. He's having his best overall season by far. Highest efficiency by far and highest scoring frequency by a decent margin, and that's the season overall.

I have listened to a lot of bulls talk radio taking multiple daily trips back and forth between houses. I'm not out of the loop. But I freely admit I haven't been watching the games. Still, it's only 18 games. And he stunk early in the season so if this is his best, most consistent, overall season they shouldn't pay him more than 20-25 mil.

[MGB8]

Unpopular take - we would have a similar record right now if the LaVine trade hadn’t happened. For example, we beat Denver with Jokic, with LaVine still on the team and Coby out, on Jan. 27. The wins and losses have been more situational than anything else, and also fully abandoning the Pat Williams experiment.

Giddey would still likely be scoring more, but Coby wouldn’t - Zach would score more than Huerter.

And… even more unpopular take… we probably would have been better off, in terms of return, waiting until the offseason to trade Zach (or Coby, for that matter).

[pipfan]

Unpopular take - we would have a similar record right now if the LaVine trade hadn’t happened. For example, we beat Denver with Jokic, with LaVine still on the team and Coby out, on Jan. 27. The wins and losses have been more situational than anything else, and also fully abandoning the Pat Williams experiment.

Giddey would still likely be scoring more, but Coby wouldn’t - Zach would score more than Huerter.

And… even more unpopular take… we probably would have been better off, in terms of return, waiting until the offseason to trade Zach (or Coby, for that matter).

Totally disagree-the team is just different now, and Collins/Huerter/Jones have been a big part
Plus, we will keep our pick now
It was a good trade at the time, and has turned out to be very good

[ShouldaPaidBG]

Guys. We're free from him. We don't have to talk about him anymore. Don't do this to yourselves.

[Stratmaster]

Unpopular take - we would have a similar record right now if the LaVine trade hadn’t happened. For example, we beat Denver with Jokic, with LaVine still on the team and Coby out, on Jan. 27. The wins and losses have been more situational than anything else, and also fully abandoning the Pat Williams experiment.

Giddey would still likely be scoring more, but Coby wouldn’t - Zach would score more than Huerter.

And… even more unpopular take… we probably would have been better off, in terms of return, waiting until the offseason to trade Zach (or Coby, for that matter).

Yeah. The guy who held the Bulls back the most was Patrick Williams. That just isn't even up for debate. When the coach is starting and giving 25+ minutes to a guy who contributed absolutely nothing for multiple seasons... it's tough to win playing 4 on 5.

[NZB2323]

Chicago Bulls in the last 15 games: 10-5

Sacramento Kings in the last 15 games: 4-11.

Kings when Zach Lavine scores 20+: 10-6 with 2 of the losses being in overtime.
When he scores under 20: 2-10

Kings when Lavine takes at least 14 shots: 9-8
Kings when he takes less than 14 shots: 3-8

Since Lavine joined the Kings:
Kings when DDR scores 20+ points: 9-13
When he scores under 20: 3-3

When DDR takes at least 14+ shots: 8-11
When he takes less than 14: 4-5

Now there are a lot of factors so I am not drawing any direct causation here. Just interesting numbers that at first glance might indicate the Kings need more of Lavine, and less of Derozan?

As far as the Bulls, Giddey's emergence and Coby's hot streak are the main reasons for the wins. It might indicate that Lavine was indeed holding back a couple of players from showing their full game. Of course, that would be like saying MJ held back Pippen. Was it true? Absolutely. So what? In Coby's case, he has had hot streaks before. I am hoping the confidence he gets from this end of season run carries over to where he actually plays a full season at a high level. He has had a magnificent 18 game run, with the exception of 1 game. His usage rate has been just under 30%. That's Zach Lavine before he had Vuc or DDR on the floor with him level.

During that time Giddey's usage has been just under 26%, he has averaged (rounded) 20/10/9 . He has had 5 triple-doubles and 4 double-doubles in 13 games played during that same 18 game stretch. Chicken or egg? Either way, Giddey seems to be the guy you could make a case for being held back by Lavine...which makes...absolutely no sense in a vacuum. Another head scratching "where was the head coach" situation.

The real Bulls question: Is winning with Coby and Giddey accounting for 55% of your offense sustainable against quality teams during tough stretches of schedule?

The one that concerns me is Coby. We have seen him go on heaters before and just . . . stop.

Giddey is basically doing what he always has when he plays PG with a marginally improved 3p shot and a little better defensive awareness. Its easy to say that this Giddey is what you would have expected with maturity and experience.

As far as the record, the Bulls have been playing terrible teams who are frequently intentionally trying to lose. I think people are losing sight of that.

We played against the Thunder, Lakers, Nuggets, Lakers, Kings, Suns, Rockets, Pacers, and Cavs since March. Not all the games have been against terrible teams tying to lose.

[Jcool0]

Kings when Zach Lavine scores 20+: 10-6 with 2 of the losses being in overtime.
When he scores under 20: 2-10

Kings when Lavine takes at least 14 shots: 9-8
Kings when he takes less than 14 shots: 3-8

Since Lavine joined the Kings:
Kings when DDR scores 20+ points: 9-13
When he scores under 20: 3-3

When DDR takes at least 14+ shots: 8-11
When he takes less than 14: 4-5

Now there are a lot of factors so I am not drawing any direct causation here. Just interesting numbers that at first glance might indicate the Kings need more of Lavine, and less of Derozan?

As far as the Bulls, Giddey's emergence and Coby's hot streak are the main reasons for the wins. It might indicate that Lavine was indeed holding back a couple of players from showing their full game. Of course, that would be like saying MJ held back Pippen. Was it true? Absolutely. So what? In Coby's case, he has had hot streaks before. I am hoping the confidence he gets from this end of season run carries over to where he actually plays a full season at a high level. He has had a magnificent 18 game run, with the exception of 1 game. His usage rate has been just under 30%. That's Zach Lavine before he had Vuc or DDR on the floor with him level.

During that time Giddey's usage has been just under 26%, he has averaged (rounded) 20/10/9 . He has had 5 triple-doubles and 4 double-doubles in 13 games played during that same 18 game stretch. Chicken or egg? Either way, Giddey seems to be the guy you could make a case for being held back by Lavine...which makes...absolutely no sense in a vacuum. Another head scratching "where was the head coach" situation.

The real Bulls question: Is winning with Coby and Giddey accounting for 55% of your offense sustainable against quality teams during tough stretches of schedule?

The one that concerns me is Coby. We have seen him go on heaters before and just . . . stop.

Giddey is basically doing what he always has when he plays PG with a marginally improved 3p shot and a little better defensive awareness. Its easy to say that this Giddey is what you would have expected with maturity and experience.

As far as the record, the Bulls have been playing terrible teams who are frequently intentionally trying to lose. I think people are losing sight of that.

We played against the Thunder, Lakers, Nuggets, Lakers, Kings, Suns, Rockets, Pacers, and Cavs since March. Not all the games have been against terrible teams tying to lose.

Read on Twitter

[NZB2323]

The one that concerns me is Coby. We have seen him go on heaters before and just . . . stop.

Giddey is basically doing what he always has when he plays PG with a marginally improved 3p shot and a little better defensive awareness. Its easy to say that this Giddey is what you would have expected with maturity and experience.

As far as the record, the Bulls have been playing terrible teams who are frequently intentionally trying to lose. I think people are losing sight of that.

We played against the Thunder, Lakers, Nuggets, Lakers, Kings, Suns, Rockets, Pacers, and Cavs since March. Not all the games have been against terrible teams tying to lose.

Read on Twitter

But that’s the entire season, not just this recent stretch where we beat the Lakers twice, the Nuggets, and the Pacers.

33% of our wins against winning teams have happened since March 10th.

[Mbrahv0528]

We played against the Thunder, Lakers, Nuggets, Lakers, Kings, Suns, Rockets, Pacers, and Cavs since March. Not all the games have been against terrible teams tying to lose.

Read on Twitter

But that’s the entire season, not just this recent stretch where we beat the Lakers twice, the Nuggets, and the Pacers.

33% of our wins against winning teams have happened since March 10th.

You're right. That was a terrible take. But I get it, too many times us Bulls fans have been burned thinking things have turned a corner, so people are all of optimistic outlooks. I personally think the team plays a totally different brand of basketball since we traded Lavine, and it's got me feeling things are actually on the upswing for once.

Sent from my SM-S938U using RealGM mobile app

[Jcool0]

We played against the Thunder, Lakers, Nuggets, Lakers, Kings, Suns, Rockets, Pacers, and Cavs since March. Not all the games have been against terrible teams tying to lose.

Read on Twitter

But that’s the entire season, not just this recent stretch where we beat the Lakers twice, the Nuggets, and the Pacers.

33% of our wins against winning teams have happened since March 10th.

To be accurate the Denver win was without Joker. Who played the next night in a win with 39/10/10. Also Tyrese Haliburton was out in the Pacer win. He played the previous game against the Bulls and Indy won by 15.

[CROBulls]

Yes, that stat against above and below is not true. Denver without Joker is below and Pacers without Haliburton are below 0.500 team. Fake wins.

[NZB2323]

Read on Twitter

But that’s the entire season, not just this recent stretch where we beat the Lakers twice, the Nuggets, and the Pacers.

33% of our wins against winning teams have happened since March 10th.

To be accurate the Denver win was without Joker. Who played the next night in a win with 39/10/10. Also Tyrese Haliburton was out in the Pacer win. He played the previous game against the Bulls and Indy won by 15.

Sure, but every team on that list has wins against teams with a winning record who had players miss games, including the Knicks and Bucks, who have a losing record against winning teams.

The original point I was refuting is that recently we were just playing against terrible teams trying to lose.

[PaKii94]

Kings when Zach Lavine scores 20+: 10-6 with 2 of the losses being in overtime.
When he scores under 20: 2-10

Kings when Lavine takes at least 14 shots: 9-8
Kings when he takes less than 14 shots: 3-8

Since Lavine joined the Kings:
Kings when DDR scores 20+ points: 9-13
When he scores under 20: 3-3

When DDR takes at least 14+ shots: 8-11
When he takes less than 14: 4-5

Now there are a lot of factors so I am not drawing any direct causation here. Just interesting numbers that at first glance might indicate the Kings need more of Lavine, and less of Derozan?

As far as the Bulls, Giddey's emergence and Coby's hot streak are the main reasons for the wins. It might indicate that Lavine was indeed holding back a couple of players from showing their full game. Of course, that would be like saying MJ held back Pippen. Was it true? Absolutely. So what? In Coby's case, he has had hot streaks before. I am hoping the confidence he gets from this end of season run carries over to where he actually plays a full season at a high level. He has had a magnificent 18 game run, with the exception of 1 game. His usage rate has been just under 30%. That's Zach Lavine before he had Vuc or DDR on the floor with him level.

During that time Giddey's usage has been just under 26%, he has averaged (rounded) 20/10/9 . He has had 5 triple-doubles and 4 double-doubles in 13 games played during that same 18 game stretch. Chicken or egg? Either way, Giddey seems to be the guy you could make a case for being held back by Lavine...which makes...absolutely no sense in a vacuum. Another head scratching "where was the head coach" situation.

The real Bulls question: Is winning with Coby and Giddey accounting for 55% of your offense sustainable against quality teams during tough stretches of schedule?

Chicken or the egg... Lavine has been doing his usual bum slaying against scrubs and wilting against the semi decent or better teams. The points/shots trend along with that

The chicken or egg was regarding Giddey and Coby. Which one is making the other better?

As far as Lavine goes, it's good to see that you haven't lost your passion about him.

It's pretty obvious Giddey and Coby both stepped up into the void left by Lavine (and are doing a better job at it than Lavine ever did).

Giddey's improvement is finally being high in the pecking order (beginning of the season Vuc/Lavine were the main options)

Coby I think it's more of mentality shift (which hopefully brings consistency). Coby was always little bro on the team. Now he's forced to be the leader.

Oh the passion against for Lavine won't be lost because with each performance of his is vindication for my views from the beginning of his bulls tenure. It will continue until his career is over or he proves my takes wrong.

He's not a good impact player. His scoring is fools gold. The excuse about the team around him still continue but he's not a good enough player to cater to and build the team around to maybe mitigate his flaws (which still won't happen cause he's destined to be a 6th man scorer).

Even his "successful" portion with Lonzo and Caruso saw him being barely a positive impact.

[Betta Bulleavit]

top 15

By draft position perhaps. But we could easily get a top 10 rookie at pick 14-15.

sure. you could also easily get a total bust

I think that sort of goes without saying. That can also be said of a top 10 or even a top 5 pick as well. My primary point was that it’s less about where we are drafting and more about who we draft and how well we scout them. There have been plenty of players that were drafted in the 11-15 range that have turned out to be exceptional NBA players.

[SalmonsSuperfan]

I still think it's hilarious that an NBA team saw what the Bulls did over the last five seasons and thought "we need to emulate that, better trade our fanbase's favorite player". Why are they building around Demar and Lavine? Remember when they had Halliburton on their team? Remember when they drafted Marvin Badley instead of Doncic?

The Bulls make questionable decisions but thank goodness we're not Kings fans.