2024-25 NBA Season Discussion

[itsxtray]

Players generally only bring it up when they're talking about the best scorers or players but they understand that winning at a high level is 5 on 5. So the "American approach" however you wanna define that doesn't affect team basketball.

I mean, no. That hasn't been true. There are examples to the contrary, but there is a very real legacy from misunderstanding Jordan to And-1 and Rucker Park and all that stuff. You could definitely see it in the 2000s and 2010s, and there are very much still guys like that in the league today.

Yeah, and and 1 and Rucker park never affected the league. Even Rafer Alston who came from that scene didn't play that way in the league. Guys do misunderstand Jordan but offensive schemes have much more to do with league play than individual player attitudes. And even in the 2000's you still had teams like the Suns who didn't just iso ball. I mean team offense is as old as basketball itself. There have been certain players in that one on one mold but even the ones heavily criticized for it like Kobe still understood how to win at a high level and play team ball when surrounded by a competitive team.

[parsnips33]

I love Draymond doing the full court media press for DPOY

This is how you become a star, a charismatic face of the league, while averaging under 10 a game for your career

[tsherkin]

Yeah, and and 1 and Rucker park never affected the league.

And again, no. There were tons of guards who were overly focused on isolation play in that era. And there remain a whole bunch of guys who overemphasize isolation in today's game and have limited appreciation for/understanding of proper team principles.

And even in the 2000's you still had teams like the Suns who didn't just iso ball.

Sure. And the Kings, and the Spurs. The better offenses in general tended to work like that.

Handwaving doesn't get rid of the mentality. It exists. It isn't everyone, but it is very much something to contend with. Same same overfocus on scoring VOLUME. Same same as not moving the ball quickly enough following long-taught principles. Everyone and their mom remembers being like 8 and being told to make quick decisions. Take an open shot, attack a close-out or if you have the angle, or move the ball if you've got nothing. None of that stuff is terribly new in concept, I agree. But what guys do and what they were taught are routinely very, very different due to their motivations and ideas.

[itsxtray]

Yeah, and and 1 and Rucker park never affected the league.

And again, no. There were tons of guards who were overly focused on isolation play in that era. And there remain a whole bunch of guys who overemphasize isolation in today's game and have limited appreciation for/understanding of proper team principles.

And even in the 2000's you still had teams like the Suns who didn't just iso ball.

Sure. And the Kings, and the Spurs. The better offenses in general tended to work like that.

Handwaving doesn't get rid of the mentality. It exists. It isn't everyone, but it is very much something to contend with. Same same overfocus on scoring VOLUME. Same same as not moving the ball quickly enough following long-taught principles. Everyone and their mom remembers being like 8 and being told to make quick decisions. Take an open shot, attack a close-out or if you have the angle, or move the ball if you've got nothing. None of that stuff is terribly new in concept, I agree. But what guys do and what they were taught are routinely very, very different due to their motivations and ideas.

Yeah, were just not gonna agree about this. You say "tons of guards." And all I'm thinking of is like Steve Francis and Stephon Marbury along with a few bigger wings. And yeah, I don't see how you can watch the league and how offenses have evolved, especially in the last decade and conclude what you're concluding.

[tsherkin]

Yeah, were just not gonna agree about this. You say "tons of guards." And all I'm thinking of is like Steve Francis and Stephon Marbury along with a few bigger wings. And yeah, I don't see how you can watch the league and how offenses have evolved, especially in the last decade and conclude what you're concluding.

Iverson, Marbury, Francis, Baron Davis, Kobe, McGrady. It was much more prevalent in the first decade of the 2000s and the last couple years of the 90s. It's less the case now, of course, but there are always individuals who are like that. We're now seeing quite a swing, yes, with the improved usage of screens and DHOs and so forth. The past half decade in particular has been very noticeably different for the most part, I agree with that.

[TheGOATRises007]

The Warriors are 20-2 with Curry and Butler. Still undefeated too when Curry, Podz, Butler, Moody and Draymond all start(13-0 now I think).

Amazingly, I think they could have kept pace with OKC if they had Butler from the start.

[The-Power]

Amazingly, I think they could have kept pace with OKC if they had Butler from the start.

Nah, not a chance. Not only are the Thunder a lot more talented, they are also younger. The Warriors are on a roll but that was never sustainable for a whole season. Their wins are not effortless like the Thunder ones, which just feel inevitable. They require a ton of effort and the core trio can only sustain that for so long before they run out of gas or health. Still an amazing stretch obviously (arguably the energy required on most nights makes it even more impressive and speaks to the competitiveness of the three old men and the chemistry of the whole team).

It's funny to recall, though, that the Warriors still may end up in the play-in despite this insane run (and in the play-in games, absolutely anything can happen). Amazing runs by not only the Warriors but also the Clippers (13-3 over the last 16) and Timberwolves (13-3 over the last 16) in addition to the Rockets (14-2 over the last 16). The West in the 2-8 range is absolutely brutal this year. So many quality teams battling it out.

[ShotCreator]

Denver blatantly sucks now IMO. They'll be good for a quick first or second round out again. No depth. Horrible net negatives off the bench. And their only decent players outside of Jokic have the worst contracts in the league. Jokic is stuck for a while.

So I posted this before the season. And got some push back but it should be obvious Denver is a lottery team plus Jokic.

He was fed up on the bench last night. I’m just wondering what moves will be made. This can’t go on like this again next year. Not without Jokic demanding out.

[parsnips33]

They gotta get KD

[falcolombardi]

Amazingly, I think they could have kept pace with OKC if they had Butler from the start.

Nah, not a chance. Not only are the Thunder a lot more talented, they are also younger. The Warriors are on a roll but that was never sustainable for a whole season. Their wins are not effortless like the Thunder ones, which just feel inevitable. They require a ton of effort and the core trio can only sustain that for so long before they run out of gas or health. Still an amazing stretch obviously (arguably the energy required on most nights makes it even more impressive and speaks to the competitiveness of the three old men and the chemistry of the whole team).

It's funny to recall, though, that the Warriors still may end up in the play-in despite this insane run (and in the play-in games, absolutely anything can happen). Amazing runs by not only the Warriors but also the Clippers (13-3 over the last 16) and Timberwolves (13-3 over the last 16) in addition to the Rockets (14-2 over the last 16). The West in the 2-8 range is absolutely brutal this year. So many quality teams battling it out.

the play-in may not have solved tanking, but it sure as hell as added extra pressure on lower seeded teams to go closer to all out in reg season

[f4p]

Amazingly, I think they could have kept pace with OKC if they had Butler from the start.

Nah, not a chance. Not only are the Thunder a lot more talented, they are also younger. The Warriors are on a roll but that was never sustainable for a whole season. Their wins are not effortless like the Thunder ones, which just feel inevitable. They require a ton of effort and the core trio can only sustain that for so long before they run out of gas or health. Still an amazing stretch obviously (arguably the energy required on most nights makes it even more impressive and speaks to the competitiveness of the three old men and the chemistry of the whole team).

It's funny to recall, though, that the Warriors still may end up in the play-in despite this insane run (and in the play-in games, absolutely anything can happen). Amazing runs by not only the Warriors but also the Clippers (13-3 over the last 16) and Timberwolves (13-3 over the last 16) in addition to the Rockets (14-2 over the last 16). The West in the 2-8 range is absolutely brutal this year. So many quality teams battling it out.

No wonder the clippers can't catch anybody. Nobody in the West loses. Throw in the thunder and that's 5 teams on a 13-3 or better run. Need Elias to say if that's ever happened in one conference.

[sp6r=underrated]

Amazingly, I think they could have kept pace with OKC if they had Butler from the start.

Nah, not a chance. Not only are the Thunder a lot more talented, they are also younger. The Warriors are on a roll but that was never sustainable for a whole season. Their wins are not effortless like the Thunder ones, which just feel inevitable. They require a ton of effort and the core trio can only sustain that for so long before they run out of gas or health. Still an amazing stretch obviously (arguably the energy required on most nights makes it even more impressive and speaks to the competitiveness of the three old men and the chemistry of the whole team).

It's funny to recall, though, that the Warriors still may end up in the play-in despite this insane run (and in the play-in games, absolutely anything can happen). Amazing runs by not only the Warriors but also the Clippers (13-3 over the last 16) and Timberwolves (13-3 over the last 16) in addition to the Rockets (14-2 over the last 16). The West in the 2-8 range is absolutely brutal this year. So many quality teams battling it out.

No wonder the clippers can't catch anybody. Nobody in the West loses. Throw in the thunder and that's 5 teams on a 13-3 or better run. Need Elias to say if that's ever happened in one conference.

The remarkable thing about this season is despite the West's strength, the East still has 2 legit final caliber teams. Usually when conferences are lopsided the weak conference has 1 legit contender at best.

[Peregrine01]

Denver blatantly sucks now IMO. They'll be good for a quick first or second round out again. No depth. Horrible net negatives off the bench. And their only decent players outside of Jokic have the worst contracts in the league. Jokic is stuck for a while.

So I posted this before the season. And got some push back but it should be obvious Denver is a lottery team plus Jokic.

He was fed up on the bench last night. I’m just wondering what moves will be made. This can’t go on like this again next year. Not without Jokic demanding out.

Are the Nuggets out of options? What can they conceivably do?

[The-Power]

No wonder the clippers can't catch anybody. Nobody in the West loses. Throw in the thunder and that's 5 teams on a 13-3 or better run.

Teams are losing but it's the ones that created some separation in the standings – DEN, MEM, LAL – who are now being dragged back into the battle to stay out of the play-in. And, of course, you had DAL, PHX and SAC fall out of contention for a top 8 seed as they spiraled out of control. So instead of a battle royale for the 5-10 seeds (just look at the standings on March 1), we now have one for the 3-8 seeds.

[Fadeaway_J]

Man I hate this conference

[IlikeSHAIguys]

A few days I was like woah can we win 70!

Now it's can we have a better record than the Cavs

[Peregrine01]

Man I hate this conference

There are no easy outs for anyone in the west…even for OKC. That’s crazy to say for a team that’s set to win 65+ games.

[Fadeaway_J]

Man I hate this conference

There are no easy outs for anyone in the west…even for OKC. That’s crazy to say for a team that’s set to win 65+ games.

And it's been that way for 25 damn years, while teams are clinching playoff berths at 43-35 in the East.

[parsnips33]

I like this Rockets team a lot. Bad boys

[jalengreen]

Amen man what a year for him