2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 4: Who is the MVP?)

[VINO 24]

Jokic in a different class.

[Tracymcgoaty]

Im here to pledge my allegiance to Jokic for MVP.

That is all. I've never cared about the MVP but man watching SGA and watching Jokic...It's **** Jokic.

ITS THE YOKEL

Best player and MVP are two different things

Shai wasn't even the best player on the court today, it was Luka. But Shai is MVP.

Learn the difference.

Dont tell me what to learn. Did i tell you to take out the broomstick currently lodged between your cheeks? No i didn't.

[Jamaaliver]

So how would you feel giving MVP to a guy who has only won 10 games against winning teams all year while he’s been on the court.

Specifically, I'd say he's a great player propping up a bad team.

The dude is literally leading his squad in every major offensive category. He needs help.

[Castle Black]

Best player in the world. Most valuable player in the world. Unfortunately he's stuck on a lottery team and it's sad to see.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[SpurNani]

2 bad turnovers for Jokic late and another loss vs a winning team

Great stats tho.

[RRR3]

Ironically, Jokic might have won MVP if Westbrook hadn't normalized triple doubles so much. I'd still vote for SGA personally, just a thought I had. I can't remember a season that had two players playing at this level in the regular season though, it's pretty crazy and historically notable. 09 with LeBron and Wade was similar off the top of my head but can't think of too many others.

[Infinite Llamas]

2 bad turnovers for Jokic late and another loss vs a winning team

Great stats tho.

Watch the game

It was literally lost in the five minutes to start the 2nd and the 4th. When Jokic was on the bench…

Malone has to be fired at this point. He hasn’t figured out these minutes in years now judging by the on/off numbers. Yes the bench is trash but Malone doesn’t even try to run anything. Just puts the ball in Westbrooks hands and says a prayer.

[RRR3]

2 bad turnovers for Jokic late and another loss vs a winning team

Great stats tho.

Watch the game

It was literally lost in the five minutes to start the 2nd and the 4th. When Jokic was on the bench…

Malone has to be fired at this point. He hasn’t figured out these minutes in years now judging by the on/off numbers. Yes the bench is trash but Malone doesn’t even try to run anything. Just puts the ball in Westbrooks hands and says a prayer.

If you think Malone's cluelessness is leading to the on/off numbers being so drastic that would imply Jokic isn't as impactful as the data is saying though yes?

[Infinite Llamas]

2 bad turnovers for Jokic late and another loss vs a winning team

Great stats tho.

Watch the game

It was literally lost in the five minutes to start the 2nd and the 4th. When Jokic was on the bench…

Malone has to be fired at this point. He hasn’t figured out these minutes in years now judging by the on/off numbers. Yes the bench is trash but Malone doesn’t even try to run anything. Just puts the ball in Westbrooks hands and says a prayer.

If you think Malone's cluelessness is leading to the on/off numbers being so drastic that would imply Jokic isn't as impactful as the data is saying though yes?

I mean…the numbers would change if they got production from the bench, no? Jokic is impactful, obviously, but the uselessness of the bench compounds inflates it some. It’s simple cause and effect. Jokic can still have them playing like the greatest offense in NBA history, but it wouldn’t look as drastic of a decline if the bench/coach were competent.

That graph posted that showed they were playing the best offense in history when he played and the worst offense when he was on the bench was sad to me. Not even something I can take pride in as a Jokic fan. It shouldn’t be this drastic of a change when a star player sits down. You watch Malone on the sidelines counting down to the 7 minute mark and praying the lead doesn’t balloon. Watching Denver play when Jokic on the bench is some of the worst, most uninspired basketball anybody could ever watch.

[SpurNani]

Nuggets are 10-21 vs winning teams this year w Jokic on the court. And one of those wins came against the Gleague Lakers, who were on a back to back night and had to give Bronny James 16 minutes because they had no other available players to play.

Look, I think Jokic is outstanding. If this were the NFL, he would deserve offensive player of the year for what he has done. But i can’t give MVP to a guy because he puts up big stats and beats up on bad teams. Im not blaming him, i think it’s clear the Nuggets need a makeover this offseason. But a player with 9 wins vs winning teams all year i cant call MVP. Offensive player of the year? Yup

[RRR3]

Watch the game

It was literally lost in the five minutes to start the 2nd and the 4th. When Jokic was on the bench…

Malone has to be fired at this point. He hasn’t figured out these minutes in years now judging by the on/off numbers. Yes the bench is trash but Malone doesn’t even try to run anything. Just puts the ball in Westbrooks hands and says a prayer.

If you think Malone's cluelessness is leading to the on/off numbers being so drastic that would imply Jokic isn't as impactful as the data is saying though yes?

I mean…the numbers would change if they got production from the bench, no? Jokic is impactful, obviously, but the uselessness of the bench compounds inflates it some. It’s simple cause and effect. Jokic can still have them playing like the greatest offense in NBA history, but it wouldn’t look as drastic of a decline if the bench/coach were competent.

That graph posted that showed they were playing the best offense in history when he played and the worst offense when he was on the bench was sad to me. Not even something I can take pride in as a Jokic fan. It shouldn’t be this drastic of a change when a star player sits down. You watch Malone on the sidelines counting down to the 7 minute mark and praying the lead doesn’t balloon. Watching Denver play when Jokic on the bench is some of the worst, most uninspired basketball anybody could ever watch.

I don't think Malone is a good coach so there could be something to this. But we have seen MVP level players put up insane on/off stats before. It's really only the last 4 years Jokic's on/off numbers have ballooned to this insane level, in 2021 he was "only" at +6.4 and that was his first MVP year so not a case of him being less developed. Ironically I'd say that was a worse roster around him than this one.

[Infinite Llamas]

If you think Malone's cluelessness is leading to the on/off numbers being so drastic that would imply Jokic isn't as impactful as the data is saying though yes?

I mean…the numbers would change if they got production from the bench, no? Jokic is impactful, obviously, but the uselessness of the bench compounds inflates it some. It’s simple cause and effect. Jokic can still have them playing like the greatest offense in NBA history, but it wouldn’t look as drastic of a decline if the bench/coach were competent.

That graph posted that showed they were playing the best offense in history when he played and the worst offense when he was on the bench was sad to me. Not even something I can take pride in as a Jokic fan. It shouldn’t be this drastic of a change when a star player sits down. You watch Malone on the sidelines counting down to the 7 minute mark and praying the lead doesn’t balloon. Watching Denver play when Jokic on the bench is some of the worst, most uninspired basketball anybody could ever watch.

I don't think Malone is a good coach so there could be something to this. But we have seen MVP level players put up insane on/off stats before. It's really only the last 4 years Jokic's on/off numbers have ballooned to this insane level, in 2021 he was "only" at +6.4 and that was his first MVP year so not a case of him being less developed. Ironically I'd say that was a worse roster around him than this one.

We’ve seen insane numbers before, yes, but Jokics crazy numbers happening year after year and ballooning more and more is systematic of a bigger issue and I really believe it’s coaching. Again, I don’t know what coach could tap the water from the woeful stone that is the Denver bench but Malone offers no creativity and no direction. As I said, he’s just running down the clock.

[Castle Black]

[Bloodbather]

Ironically, Jokic might have won MVP if Westbrook hadn't normalized triple doubles so much. I'd still vote for SGA personally, just a thought I had. I can't remember a season that had two players playing at this level in the regular season though, it's pretty crazy and historically notable. 09 with LeBron and Wade was similar off the top of my head but can't think of too many others.

And on top of that the 3rd place candidate (Giannis) is having what would normally be an MVP level season as well. It really is a crazy season at the top.

[Bloodbather]

Right now, there's only one good argument for SGA being ahead of Jokic, and that's games played. The race is close enough that this can tilt it in SGA's favor.

I think team record and voter fatigue will decide it in SGA's favor ultimately, but I don't think of them as legit arguments. They're at best a tiebreaker when it's just about dead even. To be fair, though, we are pretty close to that.

Part of me feels silly for having SGA as MVP while this dude is putting up 30-12-10-2 on godly efficiency, though. Either way, nobody should say it's undeserved and the other has been robbed. It's too close for that.

[RB34]

The mental gymnastics people are doing, telling themselves Jokic is just getting stats.

If it so incredible easy why are we only hearing his name mentioned with the mythical beast named Wilt. If SGA got anywhere near some of the stat lines Joker is putting up you people would lose your minds.

[SpurNani]

Right now, there's only one good argument for SGA being ahead of Jokic, and that's games played.

Stopped reading there.

[BruttoNostra]

SGA is still the MVP for the whole season (though, I'm not a fan of his game at all), no single game or two can change it.
And yet, he was kind of exposed.
People love to shtt on Jokic for being "passive" and treating basketball as a job only, but you can't deny how great of a leader he's on court, and his own teammates and opposing players will tell you - like that Ant interview when he was amazed how Jokic knew what plays Wolves will execute.
Same with Doncic who might be annoying many fans here (and I wouldn't even argue about it, it even makes sense), but the guy is a killer. SGA is a scorer (maybe the best in many years), who doesn't "lead" in anything but volume scoring (I'm not talking about stats only). He isn't a true floor general, he doesn't open lines for his teammates and doesn't creates 20 open looks from 3 for his teammates.
So let SGA have his WELL DESERVED Regular Season MVP, but the playoffs might be a different story for that team, as it's when head bumps after any marginal contact, including when initiated by the offensive player, aren't called as defensive fouls.

[Packbuckman]

MVP is all done SGA is winning Joikic team is not good enough defensively to be a contender and that’s with him on the court he needs a defensive big next to him Gordon was that when they won it all and Murray was at all star level. Jokic is great offensively but he is not a great shot blocker that’s going to intimidate anyone driving the basket. I still think Giannis is the best player on the planet when you factor in defense but SGA is the mvp this year.

[Jamaaliver]

2 bad turnovers for Jokic late and another loss vs a winning team

Great stats tho.

Watch the game

It was literally lost in the five minutes to start the 2nd and the 4th. When Jokic was on the bench…

Yep. Nani's take was a pretty dishonest one. He's just grasping at reasons to not honor Jokic's historic season.

Hopefully Nuggets and Thunder stay on a collision course to meet in the postseason. That might be the only way we really get some sort of finality in who's more deserving.

HINT: They both are.