2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion

[The Master]

Amen Thompson is DPOTY.

Elite DFG% (40.9%)

Elite DFG% at rim for a perimeter player (53.4%)

Elite steals and blocks numbers (1.3 BPG).

Elite defensive team (3rd DRTG).

Elite 1v1 and team defender.

1st among eligible players in EPM, 4th in D-LEBRON for players with over 1700 minutes.

[a8bil]

Draymond doesn't get enough love in this thread. He's putting on a master class in team defense this season.

[NeoWarriors]

Draymond doesn't get enough love in this thread. He's putting on a master class in team defense this season.

It's going to be all Pikachu faces and anger when he wins it.

Sent from my [Golden State Warriors ProToast Elite toaster] using RealGM mobile app

[Kiss of Death]

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[OkcSinceSGA]

Amen Thompson is DPOTY.

Elite DFG% (40.9%)

Elite DFG% at rim for a perimeter player (53.4%)

Elite steals and blocks numbers (1.3 BPG).

Elite defensive team (3rd DRTG).

Elite 1v1 and team defender.

1st among eligible players in EPM, 4th in D-LEBRON for players with over 1700 minutes.

He’s a great young player but I’m wondering if the hype is starting to surpass the reality. People talk like he’s the second coming of Pippen or a future superstar, but I’m thinking he’s another Iguodala maybe. Elite role player who does everything well, but won’t be a reliable #1 or #2 that lacks great shot creation.

That being said, every team would love him on their roster BECAUSE he can do everything.

[Yeezus_]

Draymond doesn't get enough love in this thread. He's putting on a master class in team defense this season.

I mentioned it earlier in this thread as well. It’s weird how he isn’t on this poll either. He’s probably the front runner for the award.

[The Master]

He’s a great young player but I’m wondering if the hype is starting to surpass the reality. People talk like he’s the second coming of Pippen or a future superstar, but I’m thinking he’s another Iguodala maybe. Elite role player who does everything well, but won’t be a reliable #1 or #2 that lacks great shot creation.

That being said, every team would love him on their roster BECAUSE he can do everything.

It goes beyond this topic obviously, but while no one know if and if so, to what extent Amen will be able to improve his jumper, he's extremely advanced for an archetype of two-way elite role player for a 22yo sophomore.

19th in BPM
37th in EPM
35th in LEBRON
14-8-4 on 60TS%

as a 22yo on +5.7 SRS team. That's deadly impressive.

Anyway, for a perimeter defender to have DPOTY-level impact, this player has to:

- be an elite defender individually,
- AND have an elite impact on team D.

I don't think Dort and Daniels are this type of a defender, Daniels has weak DFG% numbers, Dort isn't that dominant as a defensive safety-like organizer. Amen, on the other hand, has ridiculous DFG% numbers (even better than Dort) while also being very proficient as a rim protector (+1BPG, great splits in DFG% at rim). Again, not saying he's definitely a DPOTY, but he definitely should get more recognition. After all, Rockets are the 2nd seed in the Western Conference for a reason.

[OkcSinceSGA]

He’s a great young player but I’m wondering if the hype is starting to surpass the reality. People talk like he’s the second coming of Pippen or a future superstar, but I’m thinking he’s another Iguodala maybe. Elite role player who does everything well, but won’t be a reliable #1 or #2 that lacks great shot creation.

That being said, every team would love him on their roster BECAUSE he can do everything.

It goes beyond this topic obviously, but while no one know if and if so, to what extent Amen will be able to improve his jumper, he's extremely advanced for an archetype of two-way elite role player for a 22yo sophomore.

19th in BPM
37th in EPM
35th in LEBRON
14-8-4 on 60TS%

as a 22yo on +5.7 SRS team. That's deadly impressive.

Anyway, for a perimeter defender to have DPOTY-level impact, this player has to:

- be an elite defender individually,
- AND have an elite impact on team D.

I don't think Dort and Daniels are this type of a defender, Daniels has weak DFG% numbers, Dort isn't that dominant as a defensive safety-like organizer. Amen, on the other hand, has ridiculous DFG% numbers (even better than Dort) while also being very proficient as a rim protector (+1BPG, great splits in DFG% at rim). Again, not saying he's definitely a DPOTY, but he definitely should get more recognition. After all, Rockets are the 2nd seed in the Western Conference for a reason.

He’s fantastic but he lands somewhere between Iggy and AK47 IMO. He’s superb as an elite, all around role player. He’s too far behind in shot creation and volume scoring to be a legit #2 or #1 IMO for young stars. By year 2 or 3 guys like SGA, Edwards, Ja, Trae etc showed way more in that regard.

I do agree though he deserves DPOY consideration considering the Rockets have been a top 3 defense all year and he’s the anchor of it probably.

[Bloodbather]

It's definitely one of the weirdest years for DPOY. Wemby was clearly going to win it, but he got injured. Right now, I think the players with a legit case are Amen, Zubac, Draymond, Gobert, JJJ, and Mobley.

I almost always lean towards giving it to bigs because they have more impact by default as they play in the center and protect the paint. But right now, I'm leaning towards Amen. He's more of a Swiss army knife defender rather than a usual perimeter defender. Offers genuine rim protection from the forward position. Houston has been one of the best defensive teams all season despite not having a defensive anchor big, Amen has clearly been the main reason for that. He initially didn't have the minutes to get the award, but he's now averaging 32 MPG on the season.

[MoreyWins]

I don't think I've seen a perimeter player have a better defensive game than Amen had against the Warriors.

[cupcakesnake]

He’s a great young player but I’m wondering if the hype is starting to surpass the reality. People talk like he’s the second coming of Pippen or a future superstar, but I’m thinking he’s another Iguodala maybe. Elite role player who does everything well, but won’t be a reliable #1 or #2 that lacks great shot creation.

That being said, every team would love him on their roster BECAUSE he can do everything.

It goes beyond this topic obviously, but while no one know if and if so, to what extent Amen will be able to improve his jumper, he's extremely advanced for an archetype of two-way elite role player for a 22yo sophomore.

19th in BPM
37th in EPM
35th in LEBRON
14-8-4 on 60TS%

as a 22yo on +5.7 SRS team. That's deadly impressive.

Anyway, for a perimeter defender to have DPOTY-level impact, this player has to:

- be an elite defender individually,
- AND have an elite impact on team D.

I don't think Dort and Daniels are this type of a defender, Daniels has weak DFG% numbers, Dort isn't that dominant as a defensive safety-like organizer. Amen, on the other hand, has ridiculous DFG% numbers (even better than Dort) while also being very proficient as a rim protector (+1BPG, great splits in DFG% at rim). Again, not saying he's definitely a DPOTY, but he definitely should get more recognition. After all, Rockets are the 2nd seed in the Western Conference for a reason.

He’s fantastic but he lands somewhere between Iggy and AK47 IMO. He’s superb as an elite, all around role player. He’s too far behind in shot creation and volume scoring to be a legit #2 or #1 IMO for young stars. By year 2 or 3 guys like SGA, Edwards, Ja, Trae etc showed way more in that regard.

I do agree though he deserves DPOY consideration considering the Rockets have been a top 3 defense all year and he’s the anchor of it probably.

I think anyone reasonable still has big questions about Amen's offense. There are paths to him levelling up his offense, either through skill development (improving as a shooter or a high-volume attacking driver) or roster construction allowing an ideal role (small ball center Amen, or 4-out spacing where he's a drive and kick guy). Him becoming an offensive star is far from guaranteed, and I think you're right to say it's safer to project him as an Iggy or AK47.

Iggy and AK47 were really good. All-time defenders at their positions while being versatile offensive contributors. Kirilenko wasn't really maximized in his era or with his career. Injuries, leaving for Russia, and Utah using him to cover up holes by weak defensive players like Boozer rather than optimizing Kirilenko.

Since this is a defensive thread, it's appropriate to hype Amen. I have him on my fake DPOY ballot, which means he's top 3 to me. I'd be fine with him winning it, though I usually prefer that we make young guys prove over a couple years and some playoffs before we give them an award that calls them the best defender in the league.

[Iwasawitness]

As much as I love how Mobley has played this year, I don’t really see an argument for him being DPOY at this point.

[90sAllDecade]

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[90sAllDecade]

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And Amen was doing this his rookie year as well; special talent.

Watch on YouTube

[Woodsanity]

Rockets are a top 3 defense and Amen is definitely the biggest reason why. I think he is most deserving of DPOY atm.

[OkcSinceSGA]

It goes beyond this topic obviously, but while no one know if and if so, to what extent Amen will be able to improve his jumper, he's extremely advanced for an archetype of two-way elite role player for a 22yo sophomore.

19th in BPM
37th in EPM
35th in LEBRON
14-8-4 on 60TS%

as a 22yo on +5.7 SRS team. That's deadly impressive.

Anyway, for a perimeter defender to have DPOTY-level impact, this player has to:

- be an elite defender individually,
- AND have an elite impact on team D.

I don't think Dort and Daniels are this type of a defender, Daniels has weak DFG% numbers, Dort isn't that dominant as a defensive safety-like organizer. Amen, on the other hand, has ridiculous DFG% numbers (even better than Dort) while also being very proficient as a rim protector (+1BPG, great splits in DFG% at rim). Again, not saying he's definitely a DPOTY, but he definitely should get more recognition. After all, Rockets are the 2nd seed in the Western Conference for a reason.

He’s fantastic but he lands somewhere between Iggy and AK47 IMO. He’s superb as an elite, all around role player. He’s too far behind in shot creation and volume scoring to be a legit #2 or #1 IMO for young stars. By year 2 or 3 guys like SGA, Edwards, Ja, Trae etc showed way more in that regard.

I do agree though he deserves DPOY consideration considering the Rockets have been a top 3 defense all year and he’s the anchor of it probably.

I think anyone reasonable still has big questions about Amen's offense. There are paths to him levelling up his offense, either through skill development (improving as a shooter or a high-volume attacking driver) or roster construction allowing an ideal role (small ball center Amen, or 4-out spacing where he's a drive and kick guy). Him becoming an offensive star is far from guaranteed, and I think you're right to say it's safer to project him as an Iggy or AK47.

Iggy and AK47 were really good. All-time defenders at their positions while being versatile offensive contributors. Kirilenko wasn't really maximized in his era or with his career. Injuries, leaving for Russia, and Utah using him to cover up holes by weak defensive players like Boozer rather than optimizing Kirilenko.

Since this is a defensive thread, it's appropriate to hype Amen. I have him on my fake DPOY ballot, which means he's top 3 to me. I'd be fine with him winning it, though I usually prefer that we make young guys prove over a couple years and some playoffs before we give them an award that calls them the best defender in the league.

All fair, nothing I disagree with. For my picks I’d probably lean with one of the veteran bigs. I’m not as impressed with JJJ or Mobley defensively lately.

Me personally given who’s injured I’d go Zu or Dort. Guys like Amen, Gobert, Draymond, Dyson next.

Dort because SOMEONE from a GOAT tier defense has to be in the mix and he’s probably the guy guarding the toughest matchups along with Jalen.

Zu because the Clippers being the #2-3 defense despite a roster Vegas picked to win 35 games and be subpar.. and he’s been a top 3-4 paint defender for years without recognition.



Gobert slides for me down here because despite still being great on D he’s having a DeAndre Jordan type mid career flip where every metric is showing that his offense is arguably as impactful as his defense. Same goes for Draymond. Still a great defensive general, but offensively he’s having more impact arguably in his differentials.

Despite the Hawks being a not elite defense.. I might go Dyson Daniels 3rd just because of how dominant he is on that end.

Dort or Zu

3. Dyson
4. Amen

[cupcakesnake]

Gobert slides for me down here because despite still being great on D he’s having a DeAndre Jordan type mid career flip where every metric is showing that his offense is arguably as impactful as his defense. Same goes for Draymond. Still a great defensive general, but offensively he’s having more impact arguably in his differentials.

What metrics are you referring to about Gobert's offense?
Super lately, Gobert has been fantastic on offense, but for most of the season the T-Wolves really struggled to score with Gobert on the floor. The whole first half of the season was like: we can either choose to be an elite defense with Gobert on the floor (and probably Randle off), or an elite offensive team by getting Gobert off the floor. He's changed that over the last 10 games or so, but for most of the season he badly struggled, even at stuff he's normally elite at. This is his lowest scoring season ever, and until recently his offensive rebounding looked like it had fallen off. Defensively, he's still a masterclass of coverages and rotations almost every night, though I thought he had more off nights this year.

Gobert had some pretty solid offensive numbers when he was in Utah, playing with better lob passers (Ingles, younger Conley, Rubio, etc.).

Gobert is still very much DPOY level to me, but the man has won it enough and isn't obviously better than anyone. Even just for this archetype, I'd go for Zubac this year. I think Zu has been similar to Gobert on defense this year.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Gobert slides for me down here because despite still being great on D he’s having a DeAndre Jordan type mid career flip where every metric is showing that his offense is arguably as impactful as his defense. Same goes for Draymond. Still a great defensive general, but offensively he’s having more impact arguably in his differentials.

What metrics are you referring to about Gobert's offense?
Super lately, Gobert has been fantastic on offense, but for most of the season the T-Wolves really struggled to score with Gobert on the floor. The whole first half of the season was like: we can either choose to be an elite defense with Gobert on the floor (and probably Randle off), or an elite offensive team by getting Gobert off the floor. He's changed that over the last 10 games or so, but for most of the season he badly struggled, even at stuff he's normally elite at. This is his lowest scoring season ever, and until recently his offensive rebounding looked like it had fallen off. Defensively, he's still a masterclass of coverages and rotations almost every night, though I thought he had more off nights this year.

Gobert had some pretty solid offensive numbers when he was in Utah, playing with better lob passers (Ingles, younger Conley, Rubio, etc.).

Gobert is still very much DPOY level to me, but the man has won it enough and isn't obviously better than anyone. Even just for this archetype, I'd go for Zubac this year. I think Zu has been similar to Gobert on defense this year.

I believe what I saw was plus minus differentials and box metrics. But it’s been a minute since I checked. I don’t mean personally he’s an offensive threat, just more that his biggest impact was showing up on those offensively. I know realistically Gobert isn’t an offensive engine or anything.

[BigGargamel]

It's definitely one of the weirdest years for DPOY. Wemby was clearly going to win it, but he got injured. Right now, I think the players with a legit case are Amen, Zubac, Draymond, Gobert, JJJ, and Mobley.

I almost always lean towards giving it to bigs because they have more impact by default as they play in the center and protect the paint. But right now, I'm leaning towards Amen. He's more of a Swiss army knife defender rather than a usual perimeter defender. Offers genuine rim protection from the forward position. Houston has been one of the best defensive teams all season despite not having a defensive anchor big, Amen has clearly been the main reason for that. He initially didn't have the minutes to get the award, but he's now averaging 32 MPG on the season.

No Dyson Daniels love?

[ReggiesKnicks]

It's definitely one of the weirdest years for DPOY. Wemby was clearly going to win it, but he got injured. Right now, I think the players with a legit case are Amen, Zubac, Draymond, Gobert, JJJ, and Mobley.

I almost always lean towards giving it to bigs because they have more impact by default as they play in the center and protect the paint. But right now, I'm leaning towards Amen. He's more of a Swiss army knife defender rather than a usual perimeter defender. Offers genuine rim protection from the forward position. Houston has been one of the best defensive teams all season despite not having a defensive anchor big, Amen has clearly been the main reason for that. He initially didn't have the minutes to get the award, but he's now averaging 32 MPG on the season.

No Dyson Daniels love?

No. Outside of the box scores he really isn't very impactful.