2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 4: Who is the MVP?)

[Cubbies2120]

Read on Twitter

Team is falling apart where is the leadership

It's literally in the vid you posted. Jokic is keeping Watson focused at the end.

Nah he was supposed to get up and grab Gordon by the back of the neck, force Payton to stand up and make them hug or something

Dude's trolling atp tbh..

[Alatan]

Jokic is better than SGA and more valuable to his team than SGA is to his. But Jokic has not achieved the career goals to put him in the category of players that have 4+ MVPs so he wont get it. And im fine with it. The number of MVP trophies has long since become a career measuring and comparing tool. Its not supposed to be that way but it is and we cant change it now.

Apart from Jokic being there SGA is deserving of the award.

[nbarapm]

i think you simply have to give it to Shai. His advanced stats exceed Jokic's. His net rating is absolutely absurd -- his lineups have completely destroyed opponents. He finished 2nd in MVP last season. Jokic's poor eyetest defensively was defensible with how solid the team defense was with him on the court in prior years. This year the team defense is worse and he's contesting less shots than normal.

[Exp0sed]

How can you honestly say SGA is better than Jokic.

The numbers don't lie
The eye test doesn't lie

Everyone is so focused on #1 seed, 60 wins etc. Take Jokic out of the Nuggets and they're a lottery team.

It's the Most VALUABLE player. Not the best player on the best team award

I understand this argument and am a giant Jokic fan/think he's the best player in the world.

All that said, I think Shai was so good this year that giving him the MVP is totally justified. He is a good defender, but I don't think people understand how much he elevates OKC's offense. Without him, they're still a good team, but very much amid the Western Conference mega-logjam. With him, they're the elite team in the league. Taking a team from good to great is hard and extremely valuable and a bit hard to compare to taking a team from kind of bad to good.

Shai has a couple of great, rock solid arguments for MVP this season but all this "good to great > bad to kinda good" has nothing to do with it. Ur basically saying we should give it to SGA because Presti and Mark D are much better than Booth and Malone

heck, In terms of fit this OKC roster is pretty ideal for Jokic as well, imagine if u swapped the two

Jokic\Chet\J-Dub\Dort maybe you start another ball handler like Caruso

Iharte backing up both Jokic and Chet and starting when Jokic sits out with a killer bench unit, Williams\Iharte\Joe\Wallace\Wiggins\Kenrich
It isn't optimized, u might trade Iharte for a good combo guard but even as it is, u think this team doesn't win 65+ games? come on now...

By most metrics, in their current roles both Jokic and SGA have elevated their respective teams about the same this season

Giving it to SGA because he elevated them from good to awesome and not from bad to kinda good is basically giving SGA the award because he has a much better front office

[RB34]

Giannis

[Mrakar]

Read on Twitter

Great read and some really good inputs about MVP race.

There’s nothing negative to say about him(SGA), but when we’re honoring an individual’s effect within a team sport, I don’t care that much about historical precedents and try to avoid being too simple about it. Wins and losses matter, yes. But, to me, they’re less important than the contextual value each individual player contributes to his respective team. Every season deserves to be judged on its own merit, too.

Some fans, analysts, and voters might believe that being an unstoppable scoring champ whose team flirted with a 70-win pace is an ironclad argument for MVP. Fair! I just think that when you calibrate Jokic’s decisiveness, efficiency, mind-boggling counting stats, and positive impact on everyone around him, it’s hard to suggest that anyone else holds more importance with their respective team.

[Cubbies2120]

If SGA wins MVP, and the Nuggets somehow (as overwhelming underdogs by all betting odds...25:1 currently vs. 1.75:1 for oKC) beat OKC in the Playoffs, it'll go down as a bigger mistake than the Robinson / Hakeem MVP.

[SA37]

Read on Twitter

Great read and some really good inputs about MVP race.

There’s nothing negative to say about him(SGA), but when we’re honoring an individual’s effect within a team sport, I don’t care that much about historical precedents and try to avoid being too simple about it. Wins and losses matter, yes. But, to me, they’re less important than the contextual value each individual player contributes to his respective team. Every season deserves to be judged on its own merit, too.

Some fans, analysts, and voters might believe that being an unstoppable scoring champ whose team flirted with a 70-win pace is an ironclad argument for MVP. Fair! I just think that when you calibrate Jokic’s decisiveness, efficiency, mind-boggling counting stats, and positive impact on everyone around him, it’s hard to suggest that anyone else holds more importance with their respective team.

It's all good and well the media gets input, but the MVP award should be voted on by players and coaches, as well.

[RRR3]

If SGA wins MVP, and the Nuggets somehow (as overwhelming underdogs by all betting odds...25:1 currently vs. 1.75:1 for oKC) beat OKC in the Playoffs, it'll go down as a bigger mistake than the Robinson / Hakeem MVP.

People stil think the playoffs has anything to do with a regular season award

[Castle Black]

Read on Twitter

[Cubbies2120]

If SGA wins MVP, and the Nuggets somehow (as overwhelming underdogs by all betting odds...25:1 currently vs. 1.75:1 for oKC) beat OKC in the Playoffs, it'll go down as a bigger mistake than the Robinson / Hakeem MVP.

People stil think the playoffs has anything to do with a regular season award

You must be new here

You haven't seen the Robinson/Hakeem reference countless times over the years?

Robinson won MVP, Hakeem outplayed him and bounced him from the playoffs and it's referenced commonly when talking '94 MVP and/or Robinson's legacy...

Better see that same energy, if you think SGA deserves MVP and gets bounced by the underdog Nuggets...

[Castle Black]

If SGA wins MVP, and the Nuggets somehow (as overwhelming underdogs by all betting odds...25:1 currently vs. 1.75:1 for oKC) beat OKC in the Playoffs, it'll go down as a bigger mistake than the Robinson / Hakeem MVP.

I see what you're trying to say, but Robinson winning MVP that year wasn't a mistake. He led the Spurs to a league-best 62-20 record as the only All-Star on his team. Hakeem finished 5th in MVP voting that year and led the Rockets to the 6th Seed with a 47-35 record. Hakeem played much better in that Playoffs series than he had in the Regular Season as he was obv motivated.

With that said, there's zero chance this Nuggets roster is beating OKC in a hypothetical 7-game series. I think people are underestimating how poorly Denver's roster is constructed right now, especially defensively. And Murray and MPJ aren't playing at the same level they were during their Championship run 2 years ago.

If anything, Jokic is comparable to David Robinson in that he's doing it alone. The reason Houston won that '95 Playoff series was not only because Hakeem played out of his mind, but also because they double-teamed Robinson every time he touched the ball in the post, and none of his teammates could step up and help him enough (looking at you Sean Elliot, Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro). Robinson gets all the blame for that series (some of it warranted) when in reality, he still put up pretty big numbers against Hakeem + constant double teams, while his teammates floundered under the pressure.

[scrabbarista]

Read on Twitter

He's also 4th in TS% and has Braun and Gordon also in the top ten, which anyone who watches Denver can see Jokic is a huge part of both of their efficiency numbers. I'm slow to make these pronouncenents, but he's probably the best offensive player ever, playing at his offensive peak.

[EmpireFalls]

No way a coach killer can win the MVP.

(Am I doing this right guys?)

[Drakeem]

If SGA wins MVP, and the Nuggets somehow (as overwhelming underdogs by all betting odds...25:1 currently vs. 1.75:1 for oKC) beat OKC in the Playoffs, it'll go down as a bigger mistake than the Robinson / Hakeem MVP.

People stil think the playoffs has anything to do with a regular season award

Whether it's supposed to or not, the playoffs definitely set the tone for the next year as far as voting.

[Castle Black]

Read on Twitter

[littlerock2277]

You know how media going to twist this now, firing both your GM and coach while having a season like jokic is so odd. That news probably ruined any chance he had left winning the award. A truly wasted season I hope he leaves this team.

[SpurNani]

Absolutely no way you can give MVP to a guy who's coach and GM got fired. Obviously not Jokics fault but it is what it is. Its a lock for SGA at this point.

[Cubbies2120]

Absolutely no way you can give MVP to a guy who's coach and GM got fired. Obviously not Jokics fault but it is what it is. Its a lock for SGA at this point.

Agree only if on the flip side, Jokic somehow carries the team to the ring, it's acknowledged as the GOAT season.

[SpurNani]

Absolutely no way you can give MVP to a guy who's coach and GM got fired. Obviously not Jokics fault but it is what it is. Its a lock for SGA at this point.

Agree only if on the flip side, Jokic somehow carries the team to the ring, it's acknowledged as the GOAT season.

Undoubtedly it would be.