Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth

[Nate505]

I mean, even if their firings were deserved, what's the point of firing them a week before the playoffs. It's just odd.

[sikma42]

I mean, even if their firings were deserved, what's the point of firing them a week before the playoffs. It's just odd.

They don’t want to give them a chance to succeed. Essentially there argument is stronger now. Harder to sell with a deep playoff run.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[jokeboy86]

Wow. NBA owners are insane nowadays(and yet Donovan and Rivers/Horst still have jobs). Who would've thought that winning an NBA title(first for some of these franchises) doesnt gurantee you any job security whatsoever. Thats now 3 or 4 coaches who've been let go in less than 3 yrs after winning titles(Lue, Vogel, Budz, and Nurse).

I'm going to go out on a real shaky limb and say that Durant ends up on the Nuggets next year. Something has the Nuggets spooked about Jokic potentially getting frustrated so I could see them going all in not to waste anymore of his time. And with both Malone and Booth gone, no one outside of Jokic is safe. I think they'll try to move Murray/MPJ asap to potentially get Durant. All KD has to do is say he wants to go play with Jokic and it'll happen

[NZB2323]

He won a championship when his players were healthy. Murray is injured now, and there are 4 games left. And by firing the GM, you’ve admitted you haven’t given the coach the right roster.

I feel like this is the thinking that doomed this franchise. They overlooked the fact that they never brought in legit high level talent around Jokic. But the fact that Jokic was able to carry that roster to a championship, made them think they had a legit title contender each year.

But they didnt. They had an all time great player, thats all they had. But they kept telling themselves, "oh no were all good, we just need to get healthy."

They gave Jamal Murray a max deal from a 39 game sample size vs a sample size of 400+ games of mediocre play. Instead of asking themselves, what would an all star from a different team who doesnt get to play with Jokic look like playing next to Jokic. They decided to give away 50% of their cap to two non all star talents.

Yes, and none of that is the coach’s fault.

[levon]

Wow. NBA owners are insane nowadays(and yet Donovan and Rivers/Horst still have jobs). Who would've thought that winning an NBA title(first for some of these franchises) doesnt gurantee you any job security whatsoever. Thats now 3 or 4 coaches who've been let go in less than 3 yrs after winning titles(Lue, Vogel, Budz, and Nurse).

I'm going to go out on a real shaky limb and say that Durant ends up on the Nuggets next year. Something has the Nuggets spooked about Jokic potentially getting frustrated so I could see them going all in not to waste anymore of his time. And with both Malone and Booth gone, no one outside of Jokic is safe. I think they'll try to move Murray/MPJ asap to potentially get Durant. All KD has to do is say he wants to go play with Jokic and it'll happen

Trading for 37 year old Durant is basically an acknowledgment that Jokic is walking in 2027. You're losing all optionality for a guy who probably can't even go 3 rounds in the playoffs anymore without getting injured, let alone be the #2 option on a title team.

[Wolfgang630]

Bring KD to Denver next year.

[Doctor MJ]

I don't like this whole firing before the playoffs thing period.

I also don't like Malone getting fired, however given that Booth is getting fired too, I think I get it. Unless you're feeling good enough in the Malone relationship to have him effectively be the GM's boss - like Pop in SA - you want to bring in a GM who can choose he can stand behind. I also get the impression that ownership bristled at Malone not being enthusiastic about the Nuggets letting talent walk out the door.

Here's hoping that Malone gets courted for good positions next year.

I agree, I think there's no reason not to at least let Malone coach the playoffs.

And he should bristle. They should've have let KCP go - I think that was a bigger loss than some think - and they didn't adequately replace his role(3&D), signing Westbrook instead. And they didn't bolster their bench enough. Last offseason was just bad for them.

Also, people seem to be criticizing the Murray/MPJ contracts...I find it difficult to criticize when both guys helped win a title, and if those contracts were their market-value...so be it.

Agree, agree, and yeah, makes sense.

I think the Murray/Porter contracts haven't worked out well, but it's hard to say that they were utterly incompetent for them. Literally both players played up to the level of those contract BEFORE they ever signed them, they've just not been able to be consistently on that level after. Sometimes that's how it goes.

The thing is though, while it absolutely makes sense with the cap to decide on your core guys - in this case Jokic/Murray/Porter/Gordon - and not letting the rest of your team get bloated with bigger contracts, if 2 of those 4 core guys aren't working out like they were supposed to, you're really not in a position where you can sacrifice depth and remain competitive.

Further, while no matter how rich the owner is I respect frugality, when you recognize that you now have not just a clear cut franchise player, but by far the best player you'll ever have on this franchise until you die, this isn't the time to cut corners. Maybe you recognize that KCP isn't what you need as your 5th guy going forward and you wan to give Braun a shot, but that doesn't mean you just let talent walk out the door in free agency. When you let a guy go, you want depth in return.

[chilluminati]

Is it just me, or does Calvin Booth look like a black, bigger Nicholas Cage?

Crazy though ... Just like Memphis making strange end of season moves, they must be checked out.

[MarcusBrody]

We need Giannis and Jokic team up

Giannis, Jokic, Luka teamup. Euro player empowerment.

Best I can do is Cancar and Saric.

[jehosafats]

That is the ultimate cop out for an organization. Fire the coach on the eve of the playoffs? Muahahaha

[Capn'O]

For everyone here saying the Nuggets should’ve waited until after the playoffs to fire Malone… this is like waiting a month and a half to break up with your girlfriend because her birthday is coming up. If you already know you’re going to do it then just do it.

It's not like that at all. Creating upheaval with a team before the playoffs is basically punting the playoffs in front of the team and fanbase. You're basically saying "well, we were gonna lose anyway."

“Creating upheaval”?! You say this as if there wasn’t any chaos as is. The team was in shambles. There was absolutely zero chance, none at all, of this team winning a ring.

There are so many casuals here who have no idea how bad the Nuggets have looked this season.

[bkkrh]

For everyone here saying the Nuggets should’ve waited until after the playoffs to fire Malone… this is like waiting a month and a half to break up with your girlfriend because her birthday is coming up. If you already know you’re going to do it then just do it.

This would be true if the outcome of the Playoffs couldn't completely impact his perception. Coaches that had great regular seasons got fired for horrible playoff runs. The same way coaches completely changed perspective through deep playoff runs.

Let's say the Nuggets make it to the finals with Malone, or win another title in the end. They would definitely not fire him afterwards.

Personally I'm not a fan of this situation. It reminds me kind of coach firings in soccer, but there it normally happens when teams are fighting to avoid relegation to a lower league, when it's more about getting the team motivated to give everything every game and having the impression that the current coach isn't reaching the team anymore.

I don't really see this working in a Playoff series against the best teams in the league. Especially if the replacement is team's assistant head coach for 8 seasons. So he is almost as long with the team than Malone was your head coach. Isn't he then also a part of the problem they apparently saw?

There was zero chance of the nuggets doing anything in the playoffs with Malone and I doubt this changes that. I truly wouldn’t bet on the nuggets against a single team in the west right now. So if you already know what you’re going to do, why not just do it? Send a **** message to this sorry ass core that is soft as butter and doesn’t seem to give a **** about winning.

Strongly disagree. We still don't know playoff matchups, injuries and so on. Enough teams had surprise exits and upsets in the past. Kidd got a lot of criticism, nobody exçected that the Mavs make the finals. Same when they won their title with Dirk. Doc Rivers build his reputation and ruined his reputation through the playoffs. And there are dozens of more examples.

[SeattleJazzFan]

I mean, even if their firings were deserved, what's the point of firing them a week before the playoffs. It's just odd.

there is no point unless the star player was like "i've had enough".

[Dubnation]

Jokic should coach the team. He'd probably draw up plays that doesn't revolve around him being the serbian superman.

He already did this in 2023 WCF game 3. He called 3 inverted pnr's that won us that game.

Watch on YouTube

Now he had some interesting tactics in the all star game too

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_IU8oba-KHs

[dWadeOwnzYou]

I mean, who else is to blame for bringing in Westbrook? The dude lost more game for the Nuggets than I could count.

[ConSarnit]

I don't like this whole firing before the playoffs thing period.

I also don't like Malone getting fired, however given that Booth is getting fired too, I think I get it. Unless you're feeling good enough in the Malone relationship to have him effectively be the GM's boss - like Pop in SA - you want to bring in a GM who can choose he can stand behind. I also get the impression that ownership bristled at Malone not being enthusiastic about the Nuggets letting talent walk out the door.

Here's hoping that Malone gets courted for good positions next year.

I agree, I think there's no reason not to at least let Malone coach the playoffs.

And he should bristle. They should've have let KCP go - I think that was a bigger loss than some think - and they didn't adequately replace his role(3&D), signing Westbrook instead. And they didn't bolster their bench enough. Last offseason was just bad for them.

Also, people seem to be criticizing the Murray/MPJ contracts...I find it difficult to criticize when both guys helped win a title, and if those contracts were their market-value...so be it.

Agree, agree, and yeah, makes sense.

I think the Murray/Porter contracts haven't worked out well, but it's hard to say that they were utterly incompetent for them. Literally both players played up to the level of those contract BEFORE they ever signed them, they've just not been able to be consistently on that level after. Sometimes that's how it goes.

The thing is though, while it absolutely makes sense with the cap to decide on your core guys - in this case Jokic/Murray/Porter/Gordon - and not letting the rest of your team get bloated with bigger contracts, if 2 of those 4 core guys aren't working out like they were supposed to, you're really not in a position where you can sacrifice depth and remain competitive.

Further, while no matter how rich the owner is I respect frugality, when you recognize that you now have not just a clear cut franchise player, but by far the best player you'll ever have on this franchise until you die, this isn't the time to cut corners. Maybe you recognize that KCP isn't what you need as your 5th guy going forward and you wan to give Braun a shot, but that doesn't mean you just let talent walk out the door in free agency. When you let a guy go, you want depth in return.

When did MPJ ever live up to his contract before he signed it? In his 2nd year he was 19/7/1 and was horrendous defensively. There is no way that level of play was worth the 25% max and as we’ve seen post-contract signing he’s not been worth that either.

[ConSarnit]

He won a championship when his players were healthy. Murray is injured now, and there are 4 games left. And by firing the GM, you’ve admitted you haven’t given the coach the right roster.

I feel like this is the thinking that doomed this franchise. They overlooked the fact that they never brought in legit high level talent around Jokic. But the fact that Jokic was able to carry that roster to a championship, made them think they had a legit title contender each year.

But they didnt. They had an all time great player, thats all they had. But they kept telling themselves, "oh no were all good, we just need to get healthy."

They gave Jamal Murray a max deal from a 39 game sample size vs a sample size of 400+ games of mediocre play. Instead of asking themselves, what would an all star from a different team who doesnt get to play with Jokic look like playing next to Jokic. They decided to give away 50% of their cap to two non all star talents.

Yes, and none of that is the coach’s fault.

I feel like it must have to do with Malone being difficult or abrasive. As mentioned, if you’re firing the GM you’re admitting that the roster construction has somewhat failed.

What’s the bar for keeping your job anymore?

2023: win title
2024: lose in game 7 of 2nd round

So if you don’t make the finals every year you’re not qualified to coach?

[Pacernation]

Ownership gives mandate to GM to try to save money by letting KCP go and playing late first rounders while the coach is pissed that he is losing piece after piece of his championship roster. Coach refuses to play the young guys to make a point. What could go wrong here? Booth should be fired for giving Murray that contract and not getting a semi decent backup bigman. Jordan was cooked 5 seasons ago and they still pay him to be on the roster. Paying MPJ that kind of money is borderline criminal as well and they got no assets to improve the team. Need to trade one of their starters for depth but Murray and MPJ are toxic contracts. Ownership cleaning house is a sign to me that they want to look like the good guys in this situation, but they cheapened out on KCP and approved the Murray contract. I think everybody deserves it's share of blame here but I doubt it will get better. The next coach needs to improve the young guys bigtime and has to work some magic with some g-leaguers aswell while the GM has to improve the roster with no money to spend, no picks to trade and a bunch of bad contracts that nobody (ok, there is allways a nico harrison somewhere) wants. Sounds awesome to me.

[FarBeyondDriven]

I mean, even if their firings were deserved, what's the point of firing them a week before the playoffs. It's just odd.

It's pretty obvious. They're greasing the path to the Finals for the Lakers. They are so shameless they aren't even attempting to hide it.

Calvin Booth is a buffoon that deserved to be fired. But it makes zero sense to fire days before the playoffs.

[Optms]

All this and Jokic still leaving for the Lakers. Denver in perpetual Shamble land. Smh.